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speedmarque
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BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:01 pm

Hi All,

As stated by BA, the dreamliners will be used in part to start new long haul routes. What do we think these might be.

My Guesses (I know some of these used to be served so not strictly new!)

Seoul

Osaka

Hyderabad

Kuala Lumpur

Auckland

Perth (non-stop)?

Vietnam

Colombo

Any ideas?
 
vikinga346
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:33 pm

Quoting Speedmarque (Thread starter):
Perth (non-stop)?

I would LOVE to see LHR-PER nonstop. I've always been dreaming that they'd start that route. I believe I posted on this some months ago and the response i got was there is not enough demand for this route. It is more profitable for BA to run via BKK or SIN than to run via PER... I think it would still be aweome to run England-Australia nonstop. I really wish that this comes true but it seems that running 744's through SE Asia is more profitable... We'll see.
...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
 
LHUSA
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:36 pm

What about restarting LHR-SAN? Seems like a perfect fit.
 
dl767captain
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:46 pm

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 2):

thats an interesting one, they tried it for a while with the 772 but the 787 is much lighter and built for this kind of route. The weight reduction could allow the route to be profitable. SAN definately has the capacity to warrant international routes, instead of having to go up to lax or sfo but it could be very expensive. It would be very interesting to see BA and lh (if they get the 787) and see what SAN turns in to
 
flyf15
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:17 pm

Maybe a reinstatement of the soon to be axed London - Detroit?
 
jacobin777
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:17 pm

Quoting VikingA346 (Reply 1):
Quoting Speedmarque (Thread starter):
Perth (non-stop)?

I would LOVE to see LHR-PER nonstop. I've always been dreaming that they'd start that route. I believe I posted on this some months ago and the response i got was there is not enough demand for this route. It is more profitable for BA to run via BKK or SIN than to run via PER... I think it would still be aweome to run England-Australia nonstop. I really wish that this comes true but it seems that running 744's through SE Asia is more profitable... We'll see.

VS has stated they will be starting their route with the B787's...so it will be interesting to see who gets going on this route first....maybe even QF or JQ will try this route....
"Up the Irons!"
 
kaitak
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:45 pm

Well, BA has -8s on order (incidentally, does anyone know the split between -8s and -9s?) and QF has expressed an interest in ULH -8s for SYD-LHR, so it would surprise me if BA were not also interested.

As for other destinations, I think it will depend on whether/when BA gets new slots at LHR; when LHR moves to "mixed mode", it will be able to get new slots, with which new routes can be started. Or existing routes can be increased. KIX might be a possibility, but I think new routes to India (HYD, for example) would be more likely. A nonstop LHR-SCL might also be a possibility.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:00 pm

Quoting Speedmarque (Thread starter):
Auckland

don't anticipate ever seeing them back at AKL - they seem quite happy with the marketing presence they gain from their codeshares into AKL on QF and CX metal . Sadly AKL has a double whammy against it from BA's perspective 1/ it is a low yield market and 2 / barring a quantum leap in development it is always going to require an enroute stop - there are many other market opportunities which BA could pursue . Secondary cities in India and China for example , and , if BA allow IB to be snatched from under their nose by AF/KL then it would be vital to re-introduce services to additional South American points .
 
af773atmsp
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:09 pm

LHR-MSP? Or would BA operate a 763 on that route?
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jfk777
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:37 pm

LHR to Santiago, Chile, Lima Peru could be two more routes. Portland, Oregon in the USA.
 
GDB
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:48 pm

BA is at the moment working on the project to start long haul services-to the US in particular, from major European cities.
It looks like maybe 2 extra B757's, sourced from beyond the BA mainline fleet, will be part of this.
Though the structure of this operation is as yet unclear, it is possible that a separate entity rather like BA's late 1990's LCC, 'Go', might be the model.

If these are successful, become an established part of the greater BA network, a potential for 787's sourced from the BA fleet in the future-probably from firming up options on this type?
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:56 pm

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 2):
What about restarting LHR-SAN? Seems like a perfect fit.

Now there's an idea!  Wink It goes without saying that most of us here on A.net with any San Diego ties would love to see this happen, no matter how remote the possibility. The aircraft could certainly make it work this time!

bb
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting Speedmarque (Thread starter):
Auckland

Between QF and NZ trying to grab the market to Europe from New Zealand I think QF would object it

Quoting Speedmarque (Thread starter):
Perth (non-stop)?

Is VS actually going to operate LHR-PER or is it just an example of what the 787 can do? BA left the Australian market to QF (appart from SYD) and I dont think they plan to go back (as much as I would love a BA 787 in BNE)
 
lhpdx
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:17 pm

LHR-PDX would be a great route for British airways...Perfect size aircraft for our mid sized market..........
 
Rookinla
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 11):
It goes without saying that most of us here on A.net with any San Diego ties would love to see this happen, no matter how remote the possibility. The aircraft could certainly make it work this time!

I don't think that this idea is remote at all. While announcing the Dreamliner order, BA stated that they would use some to start new US routes. My money, in no particular order, is on London to...

DTW
SAN
STL
FLL
SJU (least likely of the four but possible)

Except for SAN and DTW, the other three are AA strongholds and would allow AA to codeshare and offer onward connections thru BA's longhaul network. Thoughts???
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 11):
It goes without saying that most of us here on A.net with any San Diego ties would love to see this happen, no matter how remote the possibility. The aircraft could certainly make it work this time!

Can the operational constraints at SAN which restricts the effective length of the runway to 7600 feet be overcome by the 787 at a payload considerably better than max passenger load for what would be something like a 4900nm stage length. You might want to check the load/range charts on Boeings website. I find it unlikely that any carrier would run such a route for passenger load only.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 9):
BA is at the moment working on the project to start long haul services-to the US in particular, from major European cities.
It looks like maybe 2 extra B757's, sourced from beyond the BA mainline fleet, will be part of this.

BA is looking for 2 B757 to operate in Europe.
The two B757 which will open the TATL routes will be PEJ and PEK.
 
CXfirst
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 12):
Is VS actually going to operate LHR-PER or is it just an example of what the 787 can do?

IIRC VS announced it, but did not make it official to allow more research on the route.

-CXfirst
 
scotron11
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 14):

Except for SAN and DTW, the other three are AA strongholds and would allow AA to codeshare and offer onward connections thru BA's longhaul network. Thoughts???

SAN I can see. DTW they just announced they will cease. There was an article in SanDiegoUnionTribune that the San Diego Regional Airport Authority agreed to "woo" international carriers thru a mix of financial incentives, lower landing fees, rent etc, and BA was specifically mentioned.
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 17):
SAN I can see. DTW they just announced they will cease. There was an article in SanDiegoUnionTribune that the San Diego Regional Airport Authority agreed to "woo" international carriers thru a mix of financial incentives, lower landing fees, rent etc, and BA was specifically mentioned.

On another thread,
SAN Apparently Adopts Incentive Program (by SANFan Oct 6 2007 in Civil Aviation)

various rumors and such regarding new SAN-Europe service is being discussed, along with the new incentive program.

bb
 
ThomasCook
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:03 pm

Hi,

Call me crazy, but maybe London Airways will see an advantage of basing one to two B787s at Manchester to expand on the JFK service?  Wink

Maybe a bit of competition with VS on the popular MCO route? Perhaps IAD, ORD or BOS? What do you think?

Regards
ThomasCook
 
APYu
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:09 pm

BA crews would need lots of persuasion to fly UK - Australia non-stop. Id love to hear what their unions would make of such a duty too. Would such a sector be legal under current duty time rules? Even with bunks for rest there are limits for how long a crew can be at work. If they are planning such a sector then I hope they start their union negotiations now. Remember how much fuss was made when the purser was removed from the Upper Deck! UK - Australia would be totally cool though
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SkyyMaster
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 13):
DTW
SAN
STL
FLL
SJU (least likely of the four but possible)

SAN would make sense perhaps, they've been there in the past. STL not likely, I do not think there's enough O&D and unless they did it as a oneworld hookup with AA, not likely. ORD is too close by. Any feed they would get on cnx passengers at STL, they already would have at ORD. FLL I would think would be a low yield market and too close to the oneworld hub at MIA. SJU not likely, again unless it was a hookup with the AA hub for beyond service to Caribbean destinations, and I'm not sure how much traffic is there, too low yield I would think.

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 19):
Maybe a bit of competition with VS on the popular MCO route?

They already put a T7 on the route, I don't see them adding a second flight.

As for other posts, DTW seems unlikely as well. They couldn't make it work with a 767 so it seems unlikely they will be back unless the economic situation in Michigan improves greatly.

If I were guessing U.S. destinations I'd go with:

PDX
MSP
PIT (for all the beleaguered folks there, I think it could work)
BDL (a stretch but not unheard of)


Other than that, I don't see many other viable options in the states. Between BA and AA, they have the country pretty well covered. I'd love to see them at BNA, but that's a pipe dream.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:29 pm

The 787s are being purchased as a replecement for the longhaul 767s, plus as Willie Walsh said to open up new routes in South East Asia and South America.

So expect to see the 787 on a the African routes that currently use a 767, plus some North American routes where the 777 is too big for a daily flight, e.g. BWI, or where frequency is important, e.g. EWR.

The fact South America was mentioned could see Rio de Janeiro and Buenos Aires get non-stop flights instead of being a tag-on to the Sao Paulo flight. This would allow BA to use a 744 daily to Sao Paulo and maintain frequency to the other destinations. It could also see BA return to Bogota (777 was too big and the 767 didn't have the legs for a non-stop) and Santiago de Chile.

In South East Asia BA could return to Kuala Lumpur with a smaller aircraft to target premium target without having to compete against MH to fill the back cabin. It could also allow BA to add an additional BKK flight and add destinations such as Ho Chi Minh City or smaller cities in China, plus return to Seoul, Osaka or Nagoya.

BA wants to combine frequency on routes with a good return (10% on a route unless it has additional value to the network as a whole). On longhaul the 787 will allow longer routes to be targetted without having to worry about filling a massive Y cabin that using a 777 or 744 several times a week would bring.
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LambertMan
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 22):
TL not likely, I do not think there's enough O&D and unless they did it as a oneworld hookup with AA, not likely. ORD is too close by. Any feed they would get on cnx passengers at STL, they already would have at ORD



Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 22):
PDX
MSP
PIT (for all the beleaguered folks there, I think it could work)
BDL (a stretch but not unheard of)

Both PIT, BDL, and PDX are much bigger reaches than St. Louis is.

-For one, Portland already has Lufthansa that fulfills its European needs. It doesn't need another transatlantic flight.
-Pittsburgh at this point needs to focus its efforts on recruiting Frontier to open up a mini-hub. I would think that the Frontier idea is one that has at least been brought up in expansion discussions. Perfect opportunity to open up a nice focus city in the east with a city dying to play ball with any carrier. When I say perfect, I mean perfect......
-Hartford already has NW to AMS, I would assume if BA was interested, it would have started already given that it could be flown with 757's of their own.

Outside of Minneapolis, St. Louis and San Diego are by far your best United States bets.

I don't mean to come swooping in to save my own city, but its the truth....
 
Rookinla
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 24):
Both PIT, BDL, and PDX are much bigger reaches than St. Louis is.

 checkmark 
Finally someone gets my point. If BA is going to add more US Mainland cities, they are likely to hook up with their codeshare partners to start the service. This is where STL and FLL come in. And yields would be just fine at FLL using a 787.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 22):
MSP

Could happen but there would have to be sufficient O&D to justify this route. I think that NW does just fine here. Add FI and you have potentially diluted yields at MSP...It's also right in the middle of Skyteam territory and I'm not sure that the potential rewards would justify the risk.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 22):
PIT (for all the beleaguered folks there, I think it could work)
BDL (a stretch but not unheard of)

PIT-Maybe but a bit of a reach.
BDL-Uh...no.

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 18):
DTW they just announced they will cease

Yes they are suspending the route but a more economical aircraft(787) can very well make this route viable again. BA didn't announce it as a discontinuation of service...They announced it as a suspension. Suspended routes of this caliber often return when market conditions are more favorable...

As far as SJU goes, I readily admitted it was a bit of a stretch but is not far-fetched. SJU is a AA hub that serves many Caribbean markets. BA has some under-performing Caribbean routes. Adding SJU-London with the 787 might make more sense than you can imagine. BA can drop the unprofitable and marginal routes, allowing AA to step in and feed those markets through SJU...maximizing opportunities with the other BA aircraft at other stations. If you think about it, SJU does make sense.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:30 am

I have never studied BA... Only flew them dozen times or so...

Will BA ever restart:

* Asia/East: Fukuoka, Osaka, Seoul, Taipei
* Asia/South: Colombo, Karachi
* Asia/Southeast: Ho Chi Minh City, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Manila
* Asia/Southwest: Dammam, Dhahran, Jeddah, Riyadh
* Europe: Bilbao, Riga, Zagreb, Vilnius
* North America/USA : Anchorage, New Orleans, San Diego
* North America/Caribbean & Central: Cancun, Havana, Montego Bay, Panama City, san Jose, San Juan
* Oceania: Auckland, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth
* South America: Bogotá, Caracas, Lima, Montevideo, Santiago

Any info would be great...
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LTU932
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:37 am

Hopefully SJO could be re-started once BA takes delivery of their 787-8s.  hyper 
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PITrules
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 24):
PIT-Maybe but a bit of a reach



Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 21):
PDX
MSP
PIT (for all the beleaguered folks there, I think it could work)
BDL (a stretch but not unheard of)

A stretch indeed, but PIT has a couple things in their favor. First, BA is currently paying terminal leases there. As long as this is the case, I imagine PIT (as well as CLT and DTW) will be on their consideration list. They are paying PIT, they might as well use it if they can make it work. Also, the community might finally agree to some kind of incentive program, which BA did not have the first time they served PIT. Also, unlike the previous service, they could now serve LHR nonstop.

Still a long shot, and unlikely.
FLYi
 
surfpunk
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:13 am

Any opinions about BA launching non-stop LHR-HNL? I know they feed Hawaii traffic through AA at LAX, but what support would there be for a direct flight to HNL (especially considering the weakness of the US Dollar in relation to the British Pound)? I'm not sure what cabin configuration BA is planning for their 787s, but (assuming they won't run four classes), would there be enough premium traffic to make a leisure route like this profitable (I don't know what sort of cargo loads they would pull on this route)?
 
theginge
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:46 am

I would be surprised if BA started LHR-PER non stop. The UK Oz market is nearly saturated already with the middle east and Asia carriers competing on it.

Quoting APYu (Reply 21):
BA crews would need lots of persuasion to fly UK - Australia non-stop. Id love to hear what their unions would make of such a duty too. Would such a sector be legal under current duty time rules? Even with bunks for rest there are limits for how long a crew can be at work. If they are planning such a sector then I hope they start their union negotiations now. Remember how much fuss was made when the purser was removed from the Upper Deck! UK - Australia would be totally cool though

I am sure that in the event of BA doing this then there would be no problem getting it through. Not sure about the duty rules, maybe they would need some adjustment by the CAA but it could be possible. Remember BA already did an 18 hour flight from BRU to MEL using a 777 so obviously with 4 pilots and the crew that length of duty is legal.
The issue they had with the purser being removed was that it was taking away jobs from 'the members', nothing to do with duty time.
 
theginge
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:50 am

I would be surprised if BA started LHR-PER non stop. The UK Oz market is nearly saturated already with the middle east and Asia carriers competing on it.

Quoting APYu (Reply 21):
BA crews would need lots of persuasion to fly UK - Australia non-stop. Id love to hear what their unions would make of such a duty too. Would such a sector be legal under current duty time rules? Even with bunks for rest there are limits for how long a crew can be at work. If they are planning such a sector then I hope they start their union negotiations now. Remember how much fuss was made when the purser was removed from the Upper Deck! UK - Australia would be totally cool though

I am sure that in the event of BA doing this then there would be no problem getting it through. Not sure about the duty rules, maybe they would need some adjustment by the CAA but it could be possible. Remember BA has already done an 18 hour flight from BRU to MEL using a 777 so obviously with 4 pilots and the crew that length of duty is legal.
The issue they had with the purser being removed was that it was taking away jobs from 'the members', nothing to do with duty time.
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:10 am

If IB gets purchasd by somebody else and leaves OneWorld I might see several new destinations in LatAm to fill the void, otherwise, if IB/BA partnership stays the same I don't see BA metal going to many new places in LatAm.

Although some post have mentioned SCL, IMHO it doesn't make any sense having OW partners LA and IB offering daily one-stops to LHR.
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Geo772
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:56 am

I could quite easily see BA using the 787 to improve services across the board. Especially where there is currently a 744 doing a multi stop route. The primary example of this would be south American routes which are GIG, GRU and EZE. Rather than use a 744 to GIG, then a short hop onto GRU or EZE, direct 787 services could be used to all these destinations. Initially this could free up 744s so they could service single stop high density routes.

Also in line with recent years I would expect to see further services to China, and agreements allowing a further expansion into the huge London - India market.
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ha763
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting Surfpunk (Reply 29):
Any opinions about BA launching non-stop LHR-HNL?

As much as I would like to see any BA aircraft here at HNL, I don't think it will happen. Although we do get a good number of visitors from the UK, I don't see BA using a valuable LHR slot to fly to HNL. However, VS has expressed interest in using their 787s to fly non-stop LON-HNL.

The thing with European visitors to Hawaii, they usually include a stop in Hawaii as part of a multi-stop U.S. trip. But this also means having to backtrack to the mainland and usually overnight another day to get back home. Another option would be to fly through Asia, but that also would most likely require an overnight stop. A non-stop flight between Europe and Hawaii could help attract more visitors from Europe as they could either start or end their U.S. holiday in Hawaii instead of having to backtrack between Hawaii and the U.S. mainland.
 
Gemuser
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting Theginge (Reply 30):
I would be surprised if BA started LHR-PER non stop. The UK Oz market is nearly saturated already with the middle east and Asia carriers competing on it.

But that's the point! The middle east & Asian carriers can't compete in the non stop UK - PER market. So BA & QF get to cream off the premium, non stop pax, who of course would be the high yield pax.
If there are enough such pax to make the service vivable, is another question.

Gemuser
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jacobin777
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 35):
So BA & QF get to cream off the premium, non stop pax, who of course would be the high yield pax.

....don't leave VS out of this as they are the first carrier to even mention flying this route nonstop with their incoming birds..
"Up the Irons!"
 
ogre727
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 26):
Caracas

It seems very unlikely, does anybody know if this is a real possilbity?
I am between the devil and the deep blue sea
 
donder10
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:37 pm

Excellent summary FlyCaledonian. Rio and Buenos Air have seen good growth on AF in recent times( Rio in particular) so a 787 on BA should be very do-able when they arrive.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:19 pm

The following sounds a bit farfetched to me...my source is close to the situation so maybe ...not holding my breath though !

British Forces here (BZE) have been told that soon BA will start 2X weekly service to BZE. it will involve as a contract with the UK Gov to haul Brit Forces back and forth + Cargo....which currently is a bi-weekly VC10...

the 788 would be perfect

If you think about it..makes sense...BA can probably do it cheaper....and with the flight basically paid for with squaddies and packs of english sausages and mail underneath..the ancillary UK traffic which is about 250 pax a week (currently going through IAH and MIA) would be some nice gravy....

And with IB, KLM, AF fortifying / building other Cent/Am markets....might be a good toe hold for BA...especailly if they could code share with TA on the SAL flight....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
Humberside
Posts: 3237
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 39):
British Forces here (BZE) have been told that soon BA will start 2X weekly service to BZE. it will involve as a contract with the UK Gov to haul Brit Forces back and forth + Cargo....which currently is a bi-weekly VC10...

Off topic but what does the British operation in Belize involve?
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shankly
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm

Asking a stupid question.

Do aircraft like the 787 completely bugger up the concept of large strategic alliances? If I'm BA and can now fly point to point to Santiago, Guatemala City, Durban, Hanoi, Chonquing etc am I not going to upset my partners at Iberia, Cathay etc by underming their feeder traffic? Cities and Alliances and Airlines are of course entirely changable for the purpose of this proposition.
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yellowtail
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:37 pm

.

How many troops is a difficult question....permanently based is probably a couple hundred...but serveral hundred extra are here at any one time doing jungle training.....I belive they work on one month staggerd rotations.

And I can tell you this....the VC10 are weight limited (even though they stop in DC)...so they bring in C-130s loaded to the gills with everything from helicopters to cans of Fosters and Guiness....so there is no shortage of Cargo.


As I said ..until the first 763 or 788 lands...I won't believe it...but it could work
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:39 pm

Quoting Shankly (Reply 41):

Do aircraft like the 787 completely bugger up the concept of large strategic alliances? If I'm BA and can now fly point to point to Santiago, Guatemala City, Durban, Hanoi, Chonquing etc am I not going to upset my partners at Iberia, Cathay etc by underming their feeder traffic? Cities and Alliances and Airlines are of course entirely changable for the purpose of this proposition.

Airlines are not in business to please other airlines, even if they are in the same alliance.
a.
 
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aerorobnz
Posts: 8346
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting Speedmarque (Thread starter):
Auckland

Nope. not this one.

Actually I envisage the 787 doing more in North America/Caribbean and any current mid-distant International sectors the 763 currently operates. EBB/NBO and those kind of flights.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:29 pm

Quoting Theginge (Reply 31):
would be surprised if BA started LHR-PER non stop. The UK Oz market is nearly saturated already with the middle east and Asia carriers competing on it.

More importantly, they have a revenue pooling agreement with QF on OZ routes so there is no incentive to unilaterally commence such a service.
 
Gemuser
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 35):So BA & QF get to cream off the premium, non stop pax, who of course would be the high yield pax. ....don't leave VS out of this as they are the first carrier to even mention flying this route nonstop with their incoming birds..

Only recently, Jacobin, only recently. This route could be done with the B744ER, with some heavy restrictions west bound. It's been talked about for years, will it ever happen? Who knows!

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 45):
More importantly, they have a revenue pooling agreement with QF on OZ routes so there is no incentive to unilaterally commence such a service.

QF & BA NEVER do anything unilaterally on the Kangaroo route! One may force an issue from time to time, but unilaterally? No way, they have been doing this dance since 1934, it will keep waltzing on for the foreseeable future!

Gemuser
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jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 45):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 35):So BA & QF get to cream off the premium, non stop pax, who of course would be the high yield pax. ....don't leave VS out of this as they are the first carrier to even mention flying this route nonstop with their incoming birds..

Only recently, Jacobin, only recently. This route could be done with the B744ER, with some heavy restrictions west bound. It's been talked about for years, will it ever happen? Who knows!

..depending on how VS configure their plane, the B789 should be able to fly the route on a year-round basis (maybe an occasional technical stop-over)...not to mention, there won't be the need to fill so many seats...also, they only recently ordered the B787... Wink
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OzarkD9S
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RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting Shankly (Reply 41):


Do aircraft like the 787 completely bugger up the concept of large strategic alliances? If I'm BA and can now fly point to point to Santiago, Guatemala City, Durban, Hanoi, Chonquing etc am I not going to upset my partners at Iberia, Cathay etc by underming their feeder traffic? Cities and Alliances and Airlines are of course entirely changable for the purpose of this proposition.

Not really. The potential incremental income from hundreds of small/medium size markets BA would never serve in their own metal undoubtedly makes up for the costs of an alliance.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: BA New Routes With Dreamliner?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:44 pm

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 23):
Outside of Minneapolis, St. Louis and San Diego are by far your best United States bets.

I don't mean to come swooping in to save my own city, but its the truth....

I understand where you are coming from. My thinking was that if AA does not fly the route, which was the last London route of TWA, I can't see where BA would open it. STL has basically the same feed as ORD does and in the high peak months, AA/BA operate 7/8 daily nonstops from ORD. I would think BA would look upon STL as just bastardizing it's ORD operations, though it would be a convenient and much less crowded option than O'Hare. I would support such a flight.

I'll say again however, I really don't see a huge jump in the number of flights from London (LHR at least) to the US since it will still be slot restricted even with the opening of T5 and open skies. Unless Heathrow gets a new runway, peak time service there is already taken up and I don't see many airlines giving up those slots.

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