UnitedTristar
Topic Author
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UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:03 pm

With the rumors that UA is converting 4 domestic 767 cabin's to Intl standards and moving them to Asia for the current NRT local Asia markets (i.e. NRT-TPE/SIN/ICN/BKK), what do you think UA will do with the planes that currently operate those routes?

My guesses would be as follows-

IAD - DXB

IAD - TLV

SFO/ORD - ZRH (going along the same premise of UA connecting to star markets in Europe)

DEN - LHR (all but done)

ORD - BRU

SFO/LAX - GRU

LAX - AKL

In addition I can see some new Ex Plus routes as follows:

LAX/DEN - GDL

LAX/SFO - MCI

ORD - RNO

LAX/SFO - ELP

DEN - PNS

DEN - MOB

Anyone else herd anything?

-m

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copaair737
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:08 pm

SFO-CAN starts in 2008 I believe.
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UnitedTristar
Topic Author
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:09 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 1):
SFO-CAN starts in 2008 I believe.

Yes...but what new destination...that one is starting with the current fleet.

-m

 airplane 
 
vald
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:10 pm

JFK/BOS/ORD/IAD TO DUB?
They are the only major US carrier thats not in Dublin.
 
Transpac787
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
IAD - DXB

IAD - TLV

I don't think UA has any further interest in starting Middle East routes, at least in the short-term. IAD-KWI only runs 4x weekly as it is.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
SFO/ORD - ZRH (going along the same premise of UA connecting to star markets in Europe)

UA only has SFO-LHR and SFO-FRA......SFO-ZRH wouldn't make much sense, ORD-ZRH would be much more likely.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
DEN - PNS

DEN - MOB

I can almost guarantee UA will go to PNS / MOB from ORD/IAD before DEN.

Quoting Vald (Reply 3):
JFK/BOS/ORD/IAD TO DUB?
They are the only major US carrier thats not in Dublin.

NWA does not currently fly to DUB, although it is a rumored new route for the TATL 757's.

As far as UA is concerned, they no longer have any international flights out of JFK or BOS.
 
Viscount724
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Vald (Reply 3):
JFK/BOS/ORD/IAD TO DUB?
They are the only major US carrier thats not in Dublin.

They should pick a less-competitive destination. Ireland isn't a huge market and traffic is quite seasonal and doesn't have a lot of high-yield business traffic.
 
by738
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
rumored new route for the TATL 757's

Would be great to see UA back in GLA too on a 757.
 
Transpac787
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:29 pm

Quoting BY738 (Reply 6):
Would be great to see UA back in GLA too on a 757.

I don't think UA would send their 757's across the Atlantic. They have a fairly limited number of ETOPS-certified birds, all of which they send to smaller Hawaii destinations....OGG, KOA, LIH.
 
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centrair
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
what do you think UA will do with the planes that currently operate those routes?

Those are all 777s. I think they fly out and RON at the out station and fly back to Tokyo so they can rotate back to the US. So this would mean only 2 new destinations (4 aircraft). It seems that UA has been focusing on building up LAX and using SFO even more. That would lean toward new or expanded Asia service or brand spaking new West Coast to Europe service.

I had heard from UA Tokyo station manager about a year ago that they would start looking at flying smaller aircraft in Asia and use the larger aircraft for non-stops. They said that were basically taking a page from NW in using A330s (In this case 767s) and 757s to improve yield and profit.

I am still holding on to the hope for DEN-NRT and LAX-NGO. But if we look at the big picture, those routes will more likely to operated by NH.

Of the routes you list I would estimate that SFO-GRU and DEN-LHR would be good. SFO-GRU can pick up the large Brazil-Asia market. China has agreements with Brazil but it is hard to get there. UA could provide good one-stop service from many Chinese markets to South America.
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AirTranTUS
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
DEN - LHR (all but done)

I would hope so. Schedules from TUS-LHR are no good on UA because the only 1-stops are through LAX and SFO, and flying through those places results in long connections and flights at less convenient times. They could fix it in 2 ways: adding DEN-LHR, or TUS-ORD/IAD.
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ytib
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:57 pm

Shouldn't we also be stating where the aircraft would come from to service a new destination?
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tozairport
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
I don't think UA has any further interest in starting Middle East routes, at least in the short-term. IAD-KWI only runs 4x weekly as it is.

It goes to daily next year, on 1/2/08.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 8):
I had heard from UA Tokyo station manager about a year ago that they would start looking at flying smaller aircraft in Asia and use the larger aircraft for non-stops. They said that were basically taking a page from NW in using A330s (In this case 767s) and 757s to improve yield and profit.

This has been talked about for some time, and was even a "done deal" at one point, but I haven't heard anything else about it in months. Some of the tag flying has been reduced in recent months in favor of non-stops (ie. SFO-TPE instead of the tage through NGO). I simply don't see where we would get the airplanes for an intra-asian 767 operations, plus they would almost have to either open up a new pilot base or do a lot of TDY, which is expensive.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
mymiles2go
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
IAD - DXB

IAD - TLV

I don't think UA has any further interest in starting Middle East routes, at least in the short-term. IAD-KWI only runs 4x weekly as it is.

Yes...because that's why they are going daily January 1st... all with with rumors of a Dubai deal that fell through based on airport/gate logistics/fees.
 
deltasju777
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:19 pm

Maybe India? SFO-DEL, IAD-BOM can they be done with a 777.
 
UAL4ever
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:24 pm

I only wish they would start service to TLV. I am so sick of connecting in FRA and not being able to upgrade FRA-TLV.
 
rwsea
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:38 pm

UA is very limited on long-haul capacity and it's going to get worse with the following routes having been added, or to be added in the past year:

LAX-HKG
LAX-FRA
IAD-PEK
IAD-FCO
IAD-KWI
SFO-CAN

UA just doesn't have the widebody capacity to keep adding more routes, unless they're planning to drastically shift the domestic fleet to International flying, which isn't necessarily an option.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
IAD - DXB

IAD - TLV

I don't think UA has any further interest in starting Middle East routes, at least in the short-term. IAD-KWI only runs 4x weekly as it is.

They are taking IAD-KWI daily.... and as hot at TLV is right now, I have a hard time believing that an IAD-TLV flight wouldn't do well. They could use either 767-300ER or 777-200ER on that flight, either or. With the huge LH presence there, it'd be easy enough for them to enter the market.

Quoting Deltasju777 (Reply 13):
Maybe India? SFO-DEL, IAD-BOM can they be done with a 777.

It's certainly possible, though that is on the long end of what UA 648k MTOW 777-200ER's can carry a reasonable payload on.

SFO-DEL would give UA a unique monopoly on west coast US to India flights. Didn't they used to extend a HKG flight out to DEL at one point?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
ZKOJH
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:48 pm

your very unlikly to see UA back in AKL, NZ have that covered 2 x daily (3 daily over December and Jan) to LAX, Daily SFO, and 3x HNL
Air New Zealand ~ dreams of flying
 
Transpac787
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 12):
Yes...because that's why they are going daily January 1st... all with with rumors of a Dubai deal that fell through based on airport/gate logistics/fees.

"rumors of a deal" is the key in this statement...

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 15):
LAX-HKG
LAX-FRA
IAD-PEK
IAD-FCO
IAD-KWI
SFO-CAN

This is why UA doesn't have much room to expand internationally. As far as getting additional aircraft, UA only has three options, if you don't include ordering new planes.

1) Reconfigure the 6x domestic 777's for international flying
2) Reconfigure some domestic 763's to international config, as rumored for NRT flying
3) Begin sending their ETOPS 757's across the Atlantic

Of course, all of those options have their respective drawbacks. UA only has 16x ETOPS 757's though, so not much spare capacity to take away from Hawaii routes if they wanted to start sending them to Europe.
 
mymiles2go
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 18):
This is why UA doesn't have much room to expand internationally. As far as getting additional aircraft, UA only has three options, if you don't include ordering new planes.

1) Reconfigure the 6x domestic 777's for international flying
2) Reconfigure some domestic 763's to international config, as rumored for NRT flying
3) Begin sending their ETOPS 757's across the Atlantic


Well - they do have a 4th - get more efficient with MX and operations. This is something I discussed at length with a number of higher-ups (VP's) that were on the recent FT SFO MX tour. While they are incredibly efficient today - they feel that they still have more room to squeeze out additional aircraft. They were discussing for example some of the tasks today that are currently broken into two seperate periods of time for a given plane and how they were looking to consolidate those in the near future, dropping days off of the overall out of service timeframe. Based on that, they felt there was still some room to grow internationally with the current fleet - but not a lot (as you outlined).

The recongfigure the domestics 67's is something I didn't ask. I thought the domestic 777's were lower powered? They did say they have no interest at the moment though in using 757's across the pond - even with the winglet installation on all ETOPS 757's. I had a pretty at length conversation in that category as well. They aren't looking to get any additional distance out of them, just pure fuel savings. It will take 18 months for completion, with the first one either already in the system as of Oct 4th, or somewhere about to pop out.
 
Transpac787
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 19):
I thought the domestic 777's were lower powered?

All of UA's 772A's have the PW4077, while all the 772ER's have the PW4090. The 4077's on the domestic 777's have the same thrust rating as those on the international 772A's. So, it would be relatively simple to convert those domestic planes for international ops....no weight penalties based on reduced thrust, MGTOW, etc.

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 19):
Well - they do have a 4th - get more efficient with MX and operations.

This is obviously a smart way to get the most revenue possible, but I don't think it's possible for UA. Their on-time and completion rates are pretty poor. As it is, we'll often have delayed flights running well past midnight (I've personally seen as late as 4am). So, I don't think it would be smart or advantageous for UA to try to schedule even more flights out of their planes, which typically fly well into the wee-hours morning on *current* operational schedules.

If UA scheduled even more flying on the domestic fleet, a bad storm at ORD would create a system-wide SNAFU for the record books.
 
mymiles2go
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 20):
This is obviously a smart way to get the most revenue possible, but I don't think it's possible for UA. Their on-time and completion rates are pretty poor. As it is, we'll often have delayed flights running well past midnight (I've personally seen as late as 4am). So, I don't think it would be smart or advantageous for UA to try to schedule even more flights out of their planes, which typically fly well into the wee-hours morning on *current* operational schedules.

If UA scheduled even more flying on the domestic fleet, a bad storm at ORD would create a system-wide SNAFU for the record books.

Sorry, I was referring to overhaul MX and not day to day schedule tweaking. Currently they have between 8-10 widebody aircraft out of service due to preplanned MX at any given time.
 
tundra767
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:25 am

I would bet on two things.

Tag to DXB from KWI when it goes daily from IAD
SFO-MUC.
 
Copa737DFW
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:49 am

Did United every fly to PTY, some people tell me they did.
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STT757
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting Copa737DFW (Reply 23):
Did United every fly to PTY, some people tell me they did.

When they took over Pan Am's Latin American operations in the Early Ninties, they flew to PTY from MIA.
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UALMMFlyer
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
With the rumors that UA is converting 4 domestic 767 cabin's to Intl standards and moving them to Asia for the current NRT local Asia markets (i.e. NRT-TPE/SIN/ICN/BKK),

Could you provide the source for such a rumor?

Will these 763 be under utilized flying one two short intra-Asia roundtrip a day ( TPE and ICN)?
As for SIN and BKK, 763 may not provide enough capacity.
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mymiles2go
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting UALMMFlyer (Reply 25):
Could you provide the source for such a rumor?

Will these 763 be under utilized flying one two short intra-Asia roundtrip a day ( TPE and ICN)?
As for SIN and BKK, 763 may not provide enough capacity.

It's been rumored for a long long time...it's never come true though. There's been talk about it occuring once new cabins happen and converting SEA-NRT to 763 and then going from there - but given the first routes for the revamped planes are Atlantic, it doesn't appear that United is too set on moving fast on it (if at all).
 
Transpac787
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 26):
There's been talk about it occuring once new cabins happen and converting SEA-NRT to 763 and then going from there

IMO I think it would be smart if UA converted SEA-NRT to a 763. That way they could at least alternate those four frames throughout the system. Otherwise it just seems a waste of capacity to have a dedicated 763 fleet for a handful of Asia routes. Not to mention the crew logistics of it, having to deadhead the 767 pilots over to NRT before they even start their trips. I know NW has to deadhead their 757 pilots out to NRT, but all NW 757 Asia flying is 6th freedom to CAN, PUS, SPN, GUM, etc. All UA flying out of NRT is 5th freedom.
 
shane
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:24 am

SFO-MUC seems to make sense, and if I'm not mistaken, they've applied for it and were granted less than ideal time slots. Maybe that can be revisited? LH nonstop flight 458/459 is always jam-packed. Plus, this an ideal Italy connection in the absence of any west-coast to Italy nonstop flights.

SFO-GRU would be a dream, but for some reason I'm not holding my breath.

Would it make any sense to restart SFO-CDG?

[Edited 2007-10-07 23:27:26]
 
WeAreUnited
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 27):
All UA flying out of NRT is 5th freedom.



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 27):
NW 757 Asia flying is 6th freedom

I guess I don't understand the difference between the two. I thought UA and NW both had the same 5th freedom rights to/from NRT? Am I confused?

5th freedom I understand is NW or UA flying US-NRT-BKK for example and 6th freedom is UA flying LHR-LAX-SYD..... am I correct or confused?
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 18):

1) Reconfigure the 6x domestic 777's for international flying
2) Reconfigure some domestic 763's to international config, as rumored for NRT flying
3) Begin sending their ETOPS 757's across the Atlantic

1) This won't happen. The domestic 777s are needed for heavy domestic/Hawai'i flying. Furthermore, they are only 777As, and could only be deployed out of IAD-ORD to Europe. The cost incurred in reconfiguring them, plus the lack of equipment that would augment them on their current routes negates any benefit that would come out of reconfiguring them in the first place

2) I think this rumor is dead in the water. As someone else mentioned, that would require a pilot base overseas (which UA doesn't have), additional MX support, etc which is also too expensive.

3) UAs 757s have a lower MTOW than COs and AAs. If the 757 were to be deployed on TATLs it would be from IAD. IAD is too far south to make TATLs without incurring a significant payload penalty. P.S. 757s only have 79 economy seats. Current markets have and continue to demand more economy seats for Europe flights.

Quoting Tundra767 (Reply 22):
Tag to DXB from KWI when it goes daily from IAD
SFO-MUC.

DXB tag-on is possible...
SFO-MUC is not as likely. LAX and IAD seem to be the focus points for international growth, right now.

Quoting Shane (Reply 28):
Would it make any sense to restart SFO-CDG?

This is a market that UA and AA have "failed" in the past. AF has a very good stronghold (monopoly) on the market, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 27):
IMO I think it would be smart if UA converted SEA-NRT to a 763. That way they could at least alternate those four frames throughout the system. Otherwise it just seems a waste of capacity to have a dedicated 763 fleet for a handful of Asia routes. Not to mention the crew logistics of it, having to deadhead the 767 pilots over to NRT before they even start their trips. I know NW has to deadhead their 757 pilots out to NRT, but all NW 757 Asia flying is 6th freedom to CAN, PUS, SPN, GUM, etc. All UA flying out of NRT is 5th freedom.

There is demand for a 777 on this route. Otherwise, a 763 would be currently serving it.
As for deadheading crew, thats money lost. The 2 or 3 pilots would require First Class seats, of which there are only 10 on the 777 and 14 on the 747.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 9):
I would hope so. Schedules from TUS-LHR are no good on UA because the only 1-stops are through LAX and SFO, and flying through those places results in long connections and flights at less convenient times. They could fix it in 2 ways: adding DEN-LHR, or TUS-ORD/IAD.

DEN-LHR is a cert, and I am hearing it will start in June 2008.

As for other new routes, dont hold your breath, until UA gets any new metal, new routes are only going to pop up if others are sacrificed and I think UA have just about rid themselves of all the unprofitable routes now, certainly Internationally anyway.

With the 4 Billion $ that UA annouced over the last few days that will be invested in the airline over the next 5 years I would love to see some of that go towards aircraft aquisition, or at least see an order in 2008.
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 31):
With the 4 Billion $ that UA annouced over the last few days that will be invested in the airline over the next 5 years I would love to see some of that go towards aircraft aquisition, or at least see an order in 2008.

Agreed. The routes remaining are making money, and at this time the Company won't be shedding anything else.
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting Vald (Reply 3):
They are the only major US carrier thats not in Dublin.

Same thing on MAD
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764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
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gkirk
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:01 am

How about IAD-MAN on 763ER?
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UAL777UK
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:30 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 34):
How about IAD-MAN on 763ER?

Even if they wanted to, firstly they don't have the metal and even if they did, this route would be well down the list of routes they would open up before they started it. Thats not to say that I would not like to see it happen and that it would not work but IMHO, you will be waiting a long time!
 
Sydscott
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am

From left field, I'd like to drop in an as yet unmentioned route........IAD-HKG if UAL is thinking about expansion and has some spare 777 capacity though I'm not sure if the range is there.

Except for San Francisco, UAL is down to core Asian Routes.

LAX has NRT, HKG.
ORD has NRT, HKG, PEK, PVG.
IAD has NRT and PEK.

Apart from DEN-NRT and adding back in additional ORD/SFO - HKG flights this is an obvious linkage missing and, given the success of NRT and PEK from IAD, I think they could make this work if they built the route. Is the demand there though?
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 36):
From left field, I'd like to drop in an as yet unmentioned route........IAD-HKG if UAL is thinking about expansion and has some spare 777 capacity though I'm not sure if the range is there.

Additional Asian flights from IAD is, I think, a strong possibility when UA gets more metal. HKG would be an easy one to start, although I think ICN would come first: another Captial-Capital route (between two countries with a new free-trade agreement I might add), Northern Virginia has a very large Korean population, and especially because this route is between to *A hubs with no nonstop service.

[Edited 2007-10-08 05:46:15]
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:06 pm

Ill doubt youll see LAX-GDL. Fares are real real low and youd never make money on a 64 seat airplane.


I also doubt youll see LAX-AKL...when UA fails at a route, they almost never retry it....ie IAD-SAL

I'd like to see IAD-SCL or LIM.
 
mk777
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:27 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 37):
Additional Asian flights from IAD is, I think, a strong possibility when UA gets more metal. HKG would be an easy one to start, although I think ICN would come first: another Captial-Capital route (between two countries with a new free-trade agreement I might add), Northern Virginia has a very large Korean population, and especially because this route is between to *A hubs with no nonstop service.

KE flies in daily from ICN, i would think the large population of the DC metro area would prefer it over United, nonetheless, i think UA will have a strong competition with KE, if they decide to start the route. I would think IAD-DEL would be the way to go if they want to go "capital to capital" slogan, however, they need some 772LR's for that, i think its time UA thought of buying new metal, my  twocents 
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Transpac787
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:53 pm

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 29):
5th freedom I understand is NW or UA flying US-NRT-BKK for example and 6th freedom is UA flying LHR-LAX-SYD..... am I correct or confused?

5th freedom, with respect to the UA/NW asia routes, refers to flights originating in the US, and arriving beyond NRT. For example, NW1 is LAX-NRT-HKG. With 5th freedom though, NW is allowed to pick up local pax in NRT for the NRT-HKG segment. Both LAX-NRT and NRT-HKG are NW1 though.

6th freedom, again with respect to the NW/UA Asia routes, applies to flights originating in NRT. To my knowledge, UA currently does not have any of these. NW has quite a few though, mostly the 757 routes. NRT-PUS, NRT-SPN, NRT-GUM, NRT-CAN. I don't know the flight numbers off the top of my head, but the flight numbers do not have continuation flights to the US. They are strictly to NRT and back.

Hopefully that makes sense. 5th freedom originates in the US, 6th freedom originates in NRT.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 30):
3) UAs 757s have a lower MTOW than COs and AAs. If the 757 were to be deployed on TATLs it would be from IAD. IAD is too far south to make TATLs without incurring a significant payload penalty. P.S. 757s only have 79 economy seats. Current markets have and continue to demand more economy seats for Europe flights.

As a quick nit-picking note, the PS 757's have 72 econ seats, not 79.

Moving on...the UA 757's do have a lower MGTOW than those at CO and AA, but a higher MGTOW than the 757's at NW. As far as I know, NW 757's have not yet made one fuel stop on a westbound TATL. Of course, the NW TATL 757's are a dedicated subfleet with winglets and and a 16C/144Y config as opposed to 22F/162Y. While IAD is further south than JFK/EWR/BOS, th UA 757's should be able to make most TATL routes without too significant of a payload penalty.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 30):
This is a market that UA and AA have "failed" in the past.

I'm not certain, but I believe AA ran SJC-CDG, not SFO-CDG.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 30):
of which there are only 10 on the 777 and 14 on the 747.

Another nit-picking note, the 777's used on SEA-NRT are often the 772ER's with the 12F/49C config, not the 10F/45C.

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 31):
DEN-LHR is a cert

I'd imagine it would have to be a 772ER, not 772A, to deal with the combo of distance and hot/high airport??

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 36):
IAD-HKG if UAL is thinking about expansion and has some spare 777 capacity though I'm not sure if the range is there.

I don't think either the 744 or 777 could fly IAD-HKG without a somewhat substantial weight penalty. The 744's at UA have 56k-rated PW4056 motors, and have difficulty flying ORD-HKG without significant weight limit, so I don't think UA will deploy them to IAD-HKG.

Regarding the possibility of deploying a 777 on IAD-HKG. Great circle mapper quotes it at 8153mi, and quotes CO's EWR-HKG at 8065mi. To the best of my knowledge, EWR-HKG is currently the longest nonstop 772ER route in the world. IAD-HKG would be just short of 100 miles longer. Important to note is that UA's 777's have 90k-rated PW4090's, whereas CO's 777's have 94k-rated GE90-94B's. I won't pretend to know how much of a difference this makes, but I'll speculate and say it probabbly makes a significant difference, and UA would take a rather large weight limit if they ever started that route with a 772ER. So, IMHO, IAD-HKG is fairly unlikely.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 39):
they need some 772LR's for that

Nahhh.....everyone knows they're getting 787's!!  stirthepot 
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14278
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 8):
Of the routes you list I would estimate that SFO-GRU and DEN-LHR would be good.

The 772 is far too much airplane for any west coast-Brazil flying, and UA's relative weakness in South America doesn't help. SFO-GRU (and LAX-GRU, for that matter) would be much better suited to a 787.
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shane
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:38 am

RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 41):
The 772 is far too much airplane for any west coast-Brazil flying, and UA's relative weakness in South America doesn't help. SFO-GRU (and LAX-GRU, for that matter) would be much better suited to a 787.

And a 767 won't do because of the absence of crew rest, is that correct?

Does everyone here agree that the 772 is too big for this route?
 
IADCRJ
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:25 am

RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:56 pm

I would like to see UA expand in South and Central America further.
 
Super80DFW
Posts: 862
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:03 pm

RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:57 pm

Does DEN even have the loads to go TATL? I figure UA would have started already if they did.
EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
 
WeAreUnited
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:02 pm

RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:06 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 40):
Hopefully that makes sense. 5th freedom originates in the US, 6th freedom originates in NRT.

Gotcha. Thanks!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14278
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 44):
Does DEN even have the loads to go TATL?

LH seems to think so...

Quoting Shane (Reply 42):
And a 767 won't do because of the absence of crew rest, is that correct?

SFO-GRU is also too long for a 763. LAX-GRU is borderline but probably would not work. AFAIK, the longest 763 route UA has ever operated is LAX-CDG, which is some 500 miles shorter than LAX-GRU.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 40):
As a quick nit-picking note, the PS 757's have 72 econ seats, not 79.

Yes I always forget how many E seats are on the PS config. I know its 7X  Smile

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 40):
I'm not certain, but I believe AA ran SJC-CDG, not SFO-CDG.

They did try SJC. My point was more that it was a Bay Area city. West Coast-Europe flights are historically difficult when it comes to bringing in consistent yields. CDG is neither a Star or OneWorld Hub. Both UA & AA were relying on O&D while AF could fly you to CDG and practically spit you out anywhere else on earth.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 40):
While IAD is further south than JFK/EWR/BOS, th UA 757's should be able to make most TATL routes without too significant of a payload penalty.

But significant enough for management (at least in this stage of their research findings) to keep the 57 off TATLs.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 40):
Another nit-picking note, the 777's used on SEA-NRT are often the 772ER's with the 12F/49C config, not the 10F/45C.

You're really at the whim of aircraft scheduling on this one. It usually varies. The aircraft is rotated through ORD (ORD-NRT-SEA-NRT-ORD). Also since the duty time is 11.59 (just checked the pilot bid), you will see one (Seat 3A) or two (Seat 3J) reserved for pilot rest- again, back down to 10 (or 11) seats.
 
UnitedTristar
Topic Author
Posts: 863
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 38):
I also doubt youll see LAX-AKL...when UA fails at a route, they almost never retry it....ie IAD-SAL

Oh but they do...these are the routes/stations that I remember them in and out more then once just off the top of my head

LAX HKG

ORD AMS (Currently on)

IAD ZRH (Currently on)

ORD KIX

Been in and out of MDW 4 times now I think?

the list goes on.

-m



[Edited 2007-10-08 15:53:04]
 
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OA412
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RE: UA's Next International Destination?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 46):
Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 44):
Does DEN even have the loads to go TATL?

LH seems to think so...

As does BA
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