User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3571
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 48):
Can Portland truly serve two international flights to Europe at this time? Beside incentives (PDX is not the only airport offering incentives), what is it about Portland that made Northwest decide to start this new service over other city candidates? I'm also curious to know what other cities NWA was considering?

If the PDX-Europe market is indeed tight (as I'm inclined to believe the addition of this service will prove it to be), NW might like their odds up against LH, especially given their AS/QX codeshare. If it comes down to their being only one carrier serving the market, I won't be surprised if it's NW. Let's hope both fish can swim in the pond.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
ml007
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:43 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:32 am

http://www.kgw.com/travel/stories/kg...amsterdam_northwest.14feaab4e.html

For those wanting to see a small part of the interview with the Northwest CEO - the local NBC affliliate has a short video about the new flight at the above link. Nothing new - except that apparently the PDX-NRT has been extremely successful and that contributed in large part to the new AMS service, which PDX did win out over other cities (which, again, were not specified).
 
User avatar
centrair
Posts: 2896
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:56 am

The flight starts in March. Which means that there will be a shuffle of aircraft someplace else in the system to allow for another A332 to be used.

What will get the shuffle? MEM?
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
baw716
Posts: 1463
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:07 am

This is great news for the PDX area and the Pacific Northwest in general. NW adding strength in the Pacific Northwest to both Asian and European destinations from here just solidifies its strong competitive position in this market.

It will also free up seats from the SEA flights; capacity has been a little tight, especially with the A330-200.

Nice going NW!

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
da man
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:27 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 52):
The flight starts in March. Which means that there will be a shuffle of aircraft someplace else in the system to allow for another A332 to be used.

What will get the shuffle? MEM?

I would imagine that MEM-AMS will switch to a A333 (probably the extra one NW has) and that A332 will operate PDX-AMS
War Eagle!
 
laca773
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:28 am

How many gates does PDX's international terminal have?

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 42):
was really surprised to check in today and see this. Portland's existing level of service to Europe (the daily LH flight) is comparable to the service to Europe in similarly-sized markets that don't host huge airline hubs (see below) and I really wasn't expecting to see another carrier enter that market so soon after LH did. Portland is now the only U.S. city with a market of two to three million people and no airline hub with two options to Europe, and it's on the low end of that population scale. I suppose we'll see what happens after the route starts operating--I can see both LH and NW doing well and I can see one of them dropping out of the market. Should be interesting to keep an eye on.



Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 42):
It should be noted that all the markets of 2-3 million people that have more than carrier/flight serving Europe (DEN, CVG, CLE) host airline hubs and therefore do not rely primarily on O/D traffic to support the service. That was all researched pretty quickly, so corrections are welcome.

I think the next city we'll see receive additional international service will be PHX with LH coming back since it's a large US/Star Alliance Hub.

LACA773
 
nwa757300
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 12:18 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 41):
Any idea how these flights are going to be crewed?

The crews will come from other bases through AMS. DTW/MSP/SEA/BOS/MEM-AMS-PDX-AMS-DTW/MSP/SEA/BOS/MEM. Details haven't been worked out on that yet.

We had a trip out of MSP that went MSP-NRT-PDX-NRT-MSP. It was a 6 day trip. Some months we would do a pairing like that or instead of the NRT-PDX legs we would do NRT-HNL instead. The crew is usually a split crew. When I did it we were paired up with a HNL crew out of NRT. Scheduling gets very creative sometimes. Similar pairings exsist for BOM as well. It's either DTW/BOS-AMS-BOM-AMS-DTW/BOS. When NW flew MIA-AMS that was a 6 day trip for a MSP crew.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:37 am

In addition to being good news for PDX, I think this route will help the Pacific Northwest as a whole. I have no doubt that traffic that use to connect in SEA via AS might now be routed through PDX. AS does have a good amount of feed. This can free up space on the SEA-AMS flight. This is the same thing that happened when PDX-NRT happened. PDX is an easy airport to connect through.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
DesertAir
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:34 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:06 pm

It is good to see Northwest thinking outside the hub.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7449
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:08 pm

DTW-PDX is supposed to go year round (not in time for this winter though)
MEM-PDX is a possible E-175 route starting in spring 2008
IND-PDX may operate summer seasonal.
 
747fan
Posts: 929
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 58):
It is good to see Northwest thinking outside the hub.

Not exactly, as NW does consider AMS one of their hubs. And it is obviously their big partner KLM's main hub. I'm almost positive that KL will codeshare on this new route. This flight will offer numerous connections out of AMS, not only to Europe, but to Africa, the Middle East, and even Asia, via KLM. And NW has a BOM flight out of AMS. So AMS is definitely a hub, not only for KL, but NW. NW also offers flight from AMS to a non-hub city to BOS, BDL, and EWR, in addition to all the KL transatlantic flights (such as the new AMS-DFW).
I knew one of the 3 new transatlantic routes would go to a "dark horse," and for some reason, I was thinking either PDX, LAX, or PHX would get an AMS flight. I'm very glad to see that PDX is finally getting intercontinental widebodies back, this time the beautiful NW A332's. Those A330's they have are probably the best TATL product in coach from the U.S. Congratulations to PDX, PDX spotters, and NW/KL! Big grin

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eduard Brantjes



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © thefarm888

 
coa747
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:11 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:59 pm

The Northwest NRT route not only picks up traffic from the Northwest but points as far away as Texas. Granted its not that much traffic but if you book on Continental or Northwest and don't want to pay for the nonstop IAH-NRT, then many times the option of IAH-PDX-NRT comes up as the next fastest when booking and I have several friends that have flown this route before. PDX & SEA are natural Skyteam connecting points to Asia.
 
HnlBoi
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:37 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:14 pm

Was wondering last night, how are they going to crew this flight PDX has a Pilot base but no F/A base? Are the MSP based F/A going to work this route? Or could they have the HNL based ones work HNL-PDX-LAYOVER-AMS-PDX-LAYOVER-HNL? The HNL based ones currently work HNL-PDX..............
 
lhpdx
Topic Author
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:33 pm

LACA773 :

How many gates does PDX's international terminal have?


At PDX concourse D has a total of 15 gates both international and domestic....There are a total of 6 gates that can be use for international and domestic flights and 9 exclusively for domestic............Long term plans is to add 3 more international gate once the extension of D is completed......
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7449
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting 747fan (Reply 60):
And it is obviously their big partner KLM's main hub. I'm almost positive that KL will codeshare on this new route

Not just a codeshare, NW & KLM act as a joint venture across the Atlantic. They codeshare on all Trans-Atlantic flights.

Quoting 747fan (Reply 60):
I was thinking either PDX, LAX, or PHX would get an AMS flight.

NW & KLM act as one in North America. KLM operates AMS-LAX which is tagged also as an NW flight.

The largest markets that currently do not have NW/KLM service to AMS now include PHL, DEN, PHX, MIA.

Quoting 747fan (Reply 60):
Those A330's they have are probably the best TATL product in coach from the U.S. Congratulations to PDX, PDX spotters, and NW/KL!

Yep, NW A330 offers arguably the best TATL product out there of any of the US airlines.
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4429
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 53):
The largest markets that currently do not have NW/KLM service to AMS now include PHL, DEN, PHX, MIA.

Yeah, we used to have KL here in MIA to AMS, but I believe they shifted that flight to ATL and we're stuck with MP now.
 
lhpdx
Topic Author
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:48 pm

I wonder what other announcements we can expect for PDX for 2008............
 
AASTEW
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:47 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:52 pm

Jetjack,

Just curious which F/A crew base operates the AMS-BOM trip?

AASTEW
 
747fan
Posts: 929
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:16 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 53):
The largest markets that currently do not have NW/KLM service to AMS now include PHL, DEN, PHX, MIA.

I wouldn't be that surprised if one of their other 2 TATL routes they're supposed to announce soon is AMS-PHL on a NW 757. Although I believe PHL-AMS is only a 1X daily 762 on US right now, so maybe KL will do it instead with an A332. I'm sure PHL could use the extra capacity of the A332 rather than the 757, even if its a *A hub rather than a SkyTeam hub.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 53):
I was thinking either PDX, LAX, or PHX would get an AMS flight.

NW & KLM act as one in North America. KLM operates AMS-LAX which is tagged also as an NW flight.

I meant LAS instead of LAX, I just hit the wrong button; I wouldn't be surprised to see an AMS-LAS flight on KL either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but LAS is also one of the largest markets that doesn't have NW/KLM service to AMS. Maybe they're afraid that the yields would be too low on this route since LAS is obviously a relatively low yield market. I know its not nearly as big in terms of populatoin as the markets listed above, but LAS is a fast-growing area and the market is large due to the tourism, numerous conventions, etc.
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:05 pm

Quoting Icna05e (Reply 9):
I have been wondering why AF opened SEA and not PDX which was not served by KLM.

SEA urban area is also nearly twice the size as PDX 's.
When I doubt... go running!
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting 747fan (Reply 57):
, but LAS is also one of the largest markets that doesn't have NW/KLM service to AMS.

LAS is nowhere near as big a city as PHX. Or PHL, for that matter. Its high tourism traffic is in its favor however.
 
LH459
Posts: 793
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:41 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:12 pm

One surprising thing about this new flight: no India connectivity on the outbound. I'm not sure how much of LH's traffic from PDX is India bound, but it looks like LH will keep the advantage for India pax.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
N174UA
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Lhpdx (Reply 52):
At PDX concourse D has a total of 15 gates both international and domestic....There are a total of 6 gates that can be use for international and domestic flights and 9 exclusively for domestic............Long term plans is to add 3 more international gate once the extension of D is completed......

Gate E1 and E5 are also widebody gates. Not sure how the logitistics would work for customs, but those gates can handle heavies. UA received their first 772 on E5, in case anyone ever asks....Monday, 5/15/95. LH has had to divert a time or two from SFO to PDX for medicals...744.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting LH459 (Reply 60):
One surprising thing about this new flight: no India connectivity on the outbound. I'm not sure how much of LH's traffic from PDX is India bound, but it looks like LH will keep the advantage for India pax.

Probably the only way they could make the aircraft rotation with NRT work.

But on the bright side, there's still one-stop service from PDX-BOM on DL (JFK), CO (EWR), and LH (FRA). I'm sure NW considered this and decided it wasn't a deal-breaker.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6643
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting HnlBoi (Reply 51):
Was wondering last night, how are they going to crew this flight PDX has a Pilot base but no F/A base? Are the MSP based F/A going to work this route? Or could they have the HNL based ones work HNL-PDX-LAYOVER-AMS-PDX-LAYOVER-HNL? The HNL based ones currently work HNL-PDX..............

If they do not open a base there, it will likely be DTW or MSP base operating the flight since we have multiple AMS flights.

Quoting AASTEW (Reply 56):
Just curious which F/A crew base operates the AMS-BOM trip?

DTW base.
Made from jets!
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3709
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:40 pm

It must be a slot restriction or some sort of other reason why it doesn't connect to the India flights. The PDX-AMS flight departs at 1605... the airplanes available to operate the flight will have been on the ground since 7ish and noonish. They could retime the flight very easily to depart PDX and 1400 arriving AMS at 900am and thus allowing onward INdia connections. I suspect there is a bigger reason.


AZJ
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1114
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:06 pm

I agree that re-timing it would be a good idea...

FWIW, having it leave earlier would also make scheduling the ground crews easier....

Some possible reasons-other than those already mentioned- as to why it's departing so late:

1. Extra time to do any maintenance

2. Makes possible the ability to swap 'planes with the NRT flight if needed (they do this in SEA occasionally, if one of the A/C is delayed or broken).

3. Capture as much feeder traffic from AS/QX as possible.

4. So that the NWA bagroom can actually handle the volume of bags (okay, obviuosly not a "real" reason, but certainly a practical one  Smile )
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3709
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:08 pm

Another reason why the flight is timed so late, could possibly be to give the customer options. Should they need to leave the west coast later, now they have a 1605 departure available to them. If they needed to leave earlier and arrive in AMS/Europe earlier, they can pop up to SEA and take that flight. While they could easily retime the flight to accomodate India departures, NWA could also just route them via SEA or force them into a double connection in DTW/MSP and AMS.


AZJ
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7449
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:50 am

The slot & gate issue at AMS could also be an issue. Considering that NW/KLM have 25-30 Trans-Atlantic arrivals into AMS in the morning, slots & gate space can be at a premium.
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:13 am

I must say, it is very nice to see NW continue to expand in a very productive way. I have always thought the NW/KL partnership is a great one, but I do wish we still saw KL metal in DTW. Its almost like they are one carrier when it comes to TATL ops.

Anywho, I agree with JetJack in the sense that it would make sense for NW to open a F/A crew base there. If that happens, I would expect NW to increase domestic ops there as well.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
lhpdx
Topic Author
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:45 am

Does NWA plan to add more flights to PDX to support this new service to AMS?
 
lhpdx
Topic Author
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:46 am

Does NWA plan to add more flights to PDX to support this new service?
 
lhpdx
Topic Author
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:54 pm

What other cities NWA is considering flying to AMS?
 
sk601
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 79):
Its almost like they are one carrier when it comes to TATL ops

They are, since TATL ops is a joint-venture.

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 81):
Does NWA plan to add more flights to PDX to support this new service?

According to a press release, the flight is timed as such that there are good connection possibilities to and from Horizon Air/Alaska Airlines.
 
PDXBJV
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:25 am

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:59 pm

I'm so excited about this!!! I Just purchased my ticket to fly on the inaugural flight!!! I'm so excited I want it to hurry up and be March already!!!!!

I think PDX will do well with this new flight, and I really hope that LH will stay here because I like their product as well.
TK787 PDX-BJV direct????
 
Indy
Posts: 4865
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: New PDX-AMS Flight On Northwest

Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting PDXBJV (Reply 84):
I'm so excited about this!!! I Just purchased my ticket to fly on the inaugural flight!!! I'm so excited I want it to hurry up and be March already!!!!!

Good for you. I'd do the exact same thing if NW started that service here. I'm sure the service on that very first flight will be exceptional. Enjoy it.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos