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astuteman
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:30 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
'Terrible. I'm so disappointed in Boeing for allowing this to happen. They better get their s**t together and make sure this doesn't happen again!

To be fair, given the ambition of the programme in many ways, 6 months (to me) doesn't seem that surprising. I'll still call it a major achievement if they stick to this delay.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
And it is now official - Boeing and Airbus both suck

Now we can debate which sucks the most  Wink
Hopefully the chinese whispers can stop now.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 12):
Well this scenario had been expected for a while

 checkmark 

Quoting Hloutweg (Reply 16):
What a sad moment for Boeing

FWIW I don't think this is nearly as sad for Boeing as the A380 wiring delay (and its cause) was for Airbus, or nearly as damaging.

Hopefully, getting the "real" programme out in the open will allow the teams to focus on the right priorities, in the right order, without excessive "work-arounds" having to be applied.

Regards
 
NYC777
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:32 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 49):
Airbus has been following the outsourcing model since its first aircraft - the A300. Back then "Airbus" was just the name of the plane with its manufacturers based in four different countries. They certainly have a little more experience on the outsorcing field than Boeing does.
Still, it didn't help them with the A380 issues...

They are outsorucing more of the A350 production and it sounds like they were going to follow what Boeing did with the 787 in which they (Airbus) becomes a systems intergrator instead of a airplane manufacturer...that's is a long way of just outsourcinga few parts here and there. Boeing is learning some hard lessons about this but in the end both Boeing and Airbus will learn how to be better intergrators in this new model. The A380 issues wan't a systems intergration or outsourcing issue but mroe of an internal mamagement issue. Still both Boeing's 787 issues and Airubs' A380 issues will be great case studies in business school.

[Edited 2007-10-10 09:34:06]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:34 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 31):
Looks like a whole bunch of us owes Clickhappy an apology when he was flamed for saying that first flight won't occur until 1st quarter of 2008. Sorry Click.

Yea, and looks like a bunch of folks on this board owe John Leahy an apology when they defamed him for saying the 787 could be up to 6 months late  Smile

I think you would be one of those: "He doesn't even talk to the suppliers. I think he took the Wachovia's analyst comments and recycled them to generate further controversey. It will very well backfire on him."; "Boy JL love to put his foot in his mouth. He really like egg in his face...next time it's going to be a whole pie. What a jerk!"
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:36 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 50):
To be fair, given the ambition of the programme in many ways, 6 months (to me) doesn't seem that surprising. I'll still call it a major achievement if they stick to this delay.

To be fair, Boeing was not completely forthcoming and it disappoints us. Major achievement or not, they likely new the schedule was unworkable as they were claiming they could still do it in August.

They still could have had the rollout on July 8. All they had to do was be honest in May about the delay. As others have pointed out, rollout to first flight is usually a longer amount of time, so who would have blinked an eye? Blunk?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:40 pm

It is true that the magnitude and length of the delay to the initial deliveries of the A380 look to be much more significant then those that appear to face the 787 at this time, but that doesn't mean the 787's issues are "unimportant" or "minor" or "of no consequence". Perspective is important, but it also needs to be reasoned.

Because there do not appear to be any fundamental issues that require a major redesign or re-work, as happened with the A380 and her wiring, the length of delay should be much less and production ramp-up should be much quicker. The costs will be confined mostly to overtime for the workers and additional overhead for storing parts that can't be assembled.

But the fact remains Boeing has failed. Trying to spin it with "well they didn't fail as great" does nothing to change that fact and generally just leads to a thread being dragged off-topic and locked.

Fortunately, airlines are forgiving - especially when they have no viable option. Sorry, WINGS, but I don't see this issue helping A330 sales as the delay in getting 787s into the hands of customers won't be longer then the back-log of A330 orders already in the pipeline. Just as the 747-400 didn't benefit from the delays to the A380-800.

As to how well Boeing will benefit from additional sales, it might not be all that great since the number of delayed frames won't be as great as with the A380. NH will likely want some more 787s and 777s, but NW is likely to just take the cash to apply to their recent A330 order.  Smile
 
NYC777
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:40 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 52):
I think you would be one of those: "He doesn't even talk to the suppliers. I think he took the Wachovia's analyst comments and recycled them to generate further controversey. It will very well backfire on him."; "Boy JL love to put his foot in his mouth. He really like egg in his face...next time it's going to be a whole pie. What a jerk!"

Nope becasue he isn't privy to what is going on in Boeing's offices and Boeing assembly floor. He made those comments the same way he makes all the rest of his ridiculous comments..off the cuff with the aim of garnering attention and the spot light.

BBTW, 50 posting in less than 1 hour!

[Edited 2007-10-10 09:42:42]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
sh0rtybr0wn
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:43 pm

No one is really surprised by this news. A380 coming along fine with new orders now, 787 has this delay but the program is still very very strong.

If the Airbus announces a delay of the A350XWB of 6 months between now and 2014, hopefully nobody will get too bent out of shape over it.

Its difficult working with new tehnologies, and everyone understands these companies do the best they can. Both Boeing and Airbus must figure out quick, efficient carbon fiber fuselage manufacturing no matter the cost or time involved.

For Boeing, that cost is another 6 months, delayed revenue, bit of egg on face.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:44 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 50):
Now we can debate which sucks the most.  Wink

 tapedshut   Big grin

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 53):
To be fair, Boeing was not completely forthcoming and it disappoints us. Major achievement or not, they likely new the schedule was unworkable as they were claiming they could still do it in August.

I still want to believe they thought they could make it, but now feel that the schedule is so tight that the "Law of Averages" is well and truly against them and if they still kept saying they could do it, something would rise up and bite them on the bum, and then they really would have been not forthcoming.

Better to just say "we're going to be six months late" in October and give everyone a chance to stop and take a breath and collect themselves, instead of continuing to crack the whip and doggedly trudge forward, leaving bodies along the way, until they finally "hit the wall" and have to admit defeat in March or even April.
 
Drahnreb
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:44 pm

When first flight take place in end of March 2008, how will they make the cold weather tests?
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting Drahnreb (Reply 58):
When first flight take place in end of March 2008, how will they make the cold weather tests?

Send her to McMurdo. Big grin
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:47 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 52):
What a jerk!

I support NYC777's assertion that JL is a jerk. Because he is.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 55):
Nope becasue he isn't privy to what is going on in Boeing's offices and Boeing assembly floor. He made those comments the same way he makes all the rest of his ridiculous comments..off the cuff with the aim of garnering attention and the spot light.

 checkmark   yes 
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
atnight
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:47 pm

One thing that I am surprised is that the first flight is now schedule for the end of first quarter 2008, that means that we won't see the 787 flying for approximately 6 months. That puts the program into a 6 month window to get it certified which if achievable, it will be quite amazing and in line with Boeing's previous schedule.... so in the end, nothing about the certification time-frame has changed, only 6-8 months delay on the first flight....

On a side note, by the time the 787's EIS arrives, SQ, EK, QF will be flying thier A380s, a little closer to how it was originally thought it would be..
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:48 pm

Quoting Drahnreb (Reply 58):
When first flight take place in end of March 2008, how will they make the cold weather tests?

ASAP. It's still quite cold in the arctic circle in April.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:49 pm

Quoting Drahnreb (Reply 58):
When first flight take place in end of March 2008, how will they make the cold weather tests?

Well they can send it to Alaska but I think the USAF also has a cold weather hanger to test aircraft in extreme cold temperatures. I think they'll find a place to do cold weather testing....it has to be cold somewhere on the globe in the summer time (South America perhaps).
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:49 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 50):
To be fair, given the ambition of the programme in many ways, 6 months (to me) doesn't seem that surprising. I'll still call it a major achievement if they stick to this delay.

LOL! I can see your point! How long was Astute delayed?
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:51 pm

Quoting Atnight (Reply 61):
nothing about the certification time-frame has changed, only 6-8 months delay on the first flight....

I would expect all the birds to be ready to fly by then, which would be a change. Also, expect quite a bit of ground testing to have taken place by first flight, which would be a change as well. And the static and other tests are ongoing, giving them more time.

Again, first flight is only one milestone, but the testing doesn't begin on that day.

It is the first day that the object is officially an airplane and not just a fancy 200 foot wide bus...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:54 pm

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 56):
If the Airbus announces a delay of the A350XWB of 6 months between now and 2014, hopefully nobody will get too bent out of shape over it.

Unfortunately, I think things won't go smoothly for Airbus with a delay on the A350. Airbus has already used their "Get out of jail, pay a little compensation card". Boeing is only now using theirs, and not to the level Airbus did.

The only real downside for Boeing that I can see, is:
1) Increased R&D expenditure
2) Delayed cashflow
3) Possible compensation

So, while this will probably increase the 787 breakeven a bit, it is really academic, as I am sure sales are well, well past breakeven.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 55):
Nope becasue he isn't privy to what is going on in Boeing's offices and Boeing assembly floor. He made those comments the same way he makes all the rest of his ridiculous comments..off the cuff with the aim of garnering attention and the spot light.

It's times like these where we see who is big enough to apologize for incorrect comments.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 60):
support NYC777's assertion that JL is a jerk. Because he is.



Do you know him personally?
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
hloutweg
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:54 pm

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 26):
To heck with things like structural integrity; a lack of fasteners is not sufficient to halt the 787 from flying!

I specifically refer to the first not all of them. If they wanted to have the 787 flying they could because there are enough fasteners for the first 787 to fly. I'm not talking about any of those in the queue which off course have been suffering from fastener shortage, but remember that, some news sources have cited different little additional issues.

Again the first could fly if it was just the fastener issue.

I would appreciate that you don't step over my comment to put your prideful head even higher.

The question here is: What the hell is going on under the hangars at Boeing.

[Edited 2007-10-10 10:04:11]

[Edited 2007-10-10 10:21:52]
In Varietate Concordia
 
FAEDC3
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:58 pm

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 7):
Anyone on this board that has been following this cannot believe that they 'just' realized they needed 6 months. Things were going downhill for awhile.

It makes you wonder.... why is that Boeing has to announce this "fashionably late" after Q3 has closed? they knew this right? some of the shareholders might want some explaining....

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
Yup. That three-tenths of one percent loss (18 cents) is a real bruiser!

No wait, it's up 25 cents now. What a roller-coaster!

More like 3+% ....  Wink
 
NYC777
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:58 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 66):
It's times like these where we see who is big enough to apologize for incorrect comments.

I would apologize to Clickhappy becaseu he had information right from the horse's mouth whereas John Leahy was just jumping on the "787 is going to be late" Bandwagon based on comments made by an equity analyst. John Leahy opns his mouth as says a lot of stupid things (there's a whole list of them) because he craves the attention and spotlight. He is not owed any sort of apology.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Drahnreb
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:58 pm

I think we will get more information on the conference call of Boeing:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....entDetails&c=85482&eventID=1667937


The Boeing Company Conference Call
Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:30 p.m. ET
 
NYC777
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:00 pm

Can someone take down notes from the conference call and post them here? That would help the discussion greatly!
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Aither
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:02 pm

So what's the total delay if we add this 6 month delay ?
Never trust the obvious
 
gbfra
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 57):
I still want to believe they thought they could make it, but now feel that the schedule is so tight that the "Law of Averages" is well and truly against them and if they still kept saying they could do it, something would rise up and bite them on the bum, and then they really would have been not forthcoming.

Honestly, it's sad to see how one of the most respected members on this forum is about to ridicule himself.

No mysterious "Law of Averages" was against Boeing but their most ambitious schedule.

Now, if we look back: The first skeptical comments about the schedule could be heard around 7/8/7 from the mouth of Mr. Bair. Since then, he, Mr. Carson and Mr. McNerney ahd repeatedly stated that the schedule was extremely ambitious. For everyone who could read between the lines a delay appeared to be possible since then.

I share Astuteman's point of view. The delay is sad, of course, but it's not a disaster. Why should airlines cancel offers now? The B787 is about to become a huge success even if it some months late.

This delay seems to be of the most concern not for airlines or investors but for some people on this forum who used to think: "Can't happen to Boeing, because Boeing is Boeing. Can only happen to these fools in Europe." Get over it.
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
sh0rtybr0wn
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:05 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 66):
Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 56):


Unfortunately, I think things won't go smoothly for Airbus with a delay on the A350.

I dont think a 2 YEAR delay will go smoothly for Airbus, but if in 2011, Airbus says were extending out deliveries for 6 months because of bla bla bla, it wont be so bad.

The good news for Boeing is the lessons learned on the 787 are essentially the same lessons of the 737 RS , so that project will run smoother. ( hopefully )
 
Danny
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:07 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 69):
I would apologize to Clickhappy becaseu he had information right from the horse's mouth

This should raise serious questions why something that was known quite a while ago was only announced today. I am afraid that Boeing is falling into the same traps that Airbus fell with the A380. Hopefully things will go well from now on and 6 months will be enough.
 
columba
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 20):
Maybe, but if they're only six months late, Boeing sucks much less. And at least their problems are supply chain, arguably the riskiest part of the new program.

What a great argument, sorry this can only happen on a.net argumenting who sucked more A or B . Just for the record Airbus postponed the A380 several times and only for a few months first, too. You can not say what will happen with Boeing in the next few months.I hope they reach their goal but you never know. Sometimes it is better to be quite and wait for the things to come.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:11 pm

Quoting Aither (Reply 72):
So what's the total delay if we add this 6 month delay ?

Unless stated otherwise, 6 months is the total figure, as Boeing always said that their goal is to maintain the first delivery date at May 2008 goal. That goal has now slipped and I'm going to use the pessimistic scenario of December 2008 first delivery.

The first flight is slipping from August until December this year. Hate to shout out "I knew it", but somehow I realised that six months from first flight to delivery was way too optimistic by anyone's standart. Like I said before, it's doable while certifying a derivative of an existing type (like 737-900ER), but not with all-new type (like 787-8).
The queen of the skies is dead.
 
747400sp
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:16 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
And it is now official - Boeing and Airbus both suck.

Then what left.
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:16 pm

6 months late, and the first flight has not occured yet! For the A380, most of the delays were announced after the first flight, so my bet is a total delay of over 12 months, because the certification will not be a piece of cake, after all this thing is made of plastic not metal, there could be some surprises...

Since Boeing kept promising the flight would be on time up to 3 days ago and suddenly announced a 6 months delay, I believe that shareholders will not be amused at all, a few lawsuits will follow... And if a single Boeing manager sold stock in the past 3 months, he should prepare himself for jail!
 
hloutweg
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:17 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 50):
FWIW I don't think this is nearly as sad for Boeing as the A380 wiring delay (and its cause) was for Airbus, or nearly as damaging.

We know well that those two (B vs A) cases can't be compared. The issues of the A380 became enormous as the great parts of the wiring design had to be redesigned. That mounted to great expenses only in compensations to customers. We know that when customers were first told that the A380 would have a delay of six (and/or up to a year if not mistaken) months they demonstrated discomfort to a certain degree, and it wasn't till they announced the further delay which elongated the wait for a total two years, that the company shacked and customers blasted Airbus for the issues, that included the management scandal.

My comparison between Airbus and Boeing, its not how the problems are the same, but how the strategy in releasing the news is the same: Deny, deny, deny, keep quiet, give some news but still give hope, deny delay, deny delay, and finally regretfully dive the notice.

However:

Quoting Hloutweg (Reply 16):
I'm pretty sure they are being optimistic about the delays but will actually get the airplane flying and delivered within the time frame.

Which I really hope for Boeing's customers and passengers sake will not be delayed any longer and might even shorten the delay.

[Edited 2007-10-10 10:19:33]
In Varietate Concordia
 
Iloveboeing
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:21 pm

Oh no! This is awful! I really wish the suppliers had actually done their jobs and put permanent fasteners in the first 787. Then Boeing wouldn't be in this mess. I hope customers don't cancel orders.
 
captainx
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:22 pm

Well well well. The old Cpt was SPOT ON.

And keep it mind , the PR did not say the delay would be 6 months, it said AT LEAST 6 MONTHS.
 
bmacleod
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:26 pm

Compared to what Airbus went through with the A380, this is a small speed bump. Airbus had to shut down development of the A380F after additional delays caused Fedex and Emirates to cancel their order. Ditto for the A350.

Not to mention the large compensations to Emirates for the longer than expected A380 delays.

I will be very shocked to see any 787 order cancellations.  eyepopping 
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
NYC777
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 83):
I will be very shocked to see any 787 order cancellations.

There won't be any..not for a 6 month delay. Longer than a year...that's another story.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
siromega
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting CaptainX (Reply 82):

And keep it mind , the PR did not say the delay would be 6 months, it said AT LEAST 6 MONTHS.

Read the first post. No it didnt. You have a reading comprehension problem. The words "at least" didn't appear anywhere in the PR as quoted in the OP.

[Edited 2007-10-10 10:28:57]
 
gaut
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:27 pm

Please guys, would it be possible to leave Airbus out of this topic!!

To be honest, a 6 month delay is not that dramatic for such a program... Bu what I can't understand is how Boeing can switch from this statement on Monday "It's an aggressive schedule but we believe we can do it," to this announcement today! That's not the best PR tactic IMO.

Cheers

Gaut
«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
 
nycbjr
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:28 pm

Quoting CaptainX (Reply 82):
the PR did not say the delay would be 6 months, it said AT LEAST 6 MONTHS.

Unless I'm missing something I don't see an "At Least" anywhere in the press release.....
 
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SEPilot
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:28 pm

Well, as one of the members of the Boeing fan club I'll accept my share of egg on my face for believing the official pronouncements that the first delivery would not be affected. I do believe, however, that it was a case of top managers repeatedly asking the question, "Will this delay us?" as each issue came up and the underlings saying each time "No, we can still catch up." Finally, someone had the guts to say "No way we can make May 2008" at which point the top managers, since the target date had been well and truly blown, went around to each department head and asked them what time they needed, and took a realistic (and probably pessimistic) look at everything that needed to happen and when it likely would happen. They then announced the resulting delay. The fact that the spokesmen have been frank in acknowledging the problems and potentials for delay while insisting that the schedule still stood is why I believe this scenario. Certainly if I had been CEO of Boeing that is the way I would have dealt with it.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
NYC777
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:30 pm

From the press release:
"BA 101.27, -0.18, -0.2%) today announced a six-month delay in its planned initial deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner due to continued challenges completing assembly of the first airplanes. "

From CapitainX:

Quoting CaptainX (Reply 82):
And keep it mind , the PR did not say the delay would be 6 months, it said AT LEAST 6 MONTHS.

Now I think the old Capitain is wrong. I suggest the old capitain go back and re-read the press release. A 6 month delay not at least a 6 month delay.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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ER757
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:30 pm

Quoting CaptainX (Reply 82):
And keep it mind , the PR did not say the delay would be 6 months, it said AT LEAST 6 MONTHS.

Hmmmm - I just read it again and I never saw the words "at least" in there. What were you looking at?
 
StressGuy
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:31 pm

I am very dissapointed in with Boeing. This damages their reputation all over the world. I think that it is hardly a coincidence that this occured on the first major program that they decided to become "large scale integraters". Hopefully they learn hard lesson but that doesn't repair the damage done.
 
max999
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:32 pm

Quoting Hloutweg (Reply 80):

My comparison between Airbus and Boeing, its not how the problems are the same, but how the strategy in releasing the news is the same: Deny, deny, deny, keep quiet, give some news but still give hope, deny delay, deny delay, and finally regretfully dive the notice.

In my opinion, both companies' management lied to their customers and shareholders.

What's really sad in this case is Boeing did not learn from Airbus' mistake of lying. I guess they had to learn and experience the pain first hand.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
Aither
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:32 pm

Quoting Gaut (Reply 86):
To be honest, a 6 month delay is not that dramatic for such a program

But am I correct saying it is a delay on top of the current delay ? so that would make one year delay if I'm correct ?
Never trust the obvious
 
NYC777
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:34 pm

Quoting Aither (Reply 93):
But am I correct saying it is a delay on top of the current delay ? so that would make one year delay if I'm correct ?

Wrong. Original EIS is May 2008, new EIS is November 2008 to December 2008 that is a 6 to 7 month delay not one year.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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ER757
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:35 pm

Quoting Aither (Reply 93):
Quoting Gaut (Reply 86):
To be honest, a 6 month delay is not that dramatic for such a program

But am I correct saying it is a delay on top of the current delay ? so that would make one year delay if I'm correct ?

No - the May 2008 EIS was the original target, they are now saying Dec 2008
 
Norcal773
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:46 pm

A real shame. Where's Zeke and slz396 when you need them?  duck 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
Mach3
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:53 pm

Boeing can turn this announcement in their favour! Rather then rush into a program like AB did on the 380 and getting it in the air to inflate their Ego, Boeing is taking it on the chin to be safe and build a SAFE aircraft! Nothing wrong with that. Boeing plane are stronger last longer and fly better then any other aircraft produced. Time is on their side in producing a far Superior aircraft that will be Stronger, Safer and more cost saving! Boeing stock may take a hit but will bounce back. And guess what? Boeing is doing it all on their own without any subsidies from anyone!!!!!
If you pull on the Tiger's tail, better be prepared for him to bite you in the ARSE
 
kl911
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:56 pm

I feel sad for Boeing, but in the summer I already told this. I started a thread about it, and NOBODY believed it.... My source was and is very credible, I said 6 months, so in a way I'm happy it's confirmed now, although it was KNOWN 3 months ago minimum.

Why wait that long? Because Airbus was under fire at the same moment........

Thanks guys..

KL911
 
astuteman
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RE: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:00 pm

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 64):
LOL! I can see your point! How long was Astute delayed?

3 years!!!!!  biggrin 
(Some on here like to believe it was 4 years, but they're wrong.........  Smile )

Quoting StressGuy (Reply 91):
I am very dissapointed in with Boeing. This damages their reputation all over the world.

FWIW in my humble opinion, the place it damages Boeing's reputation most is right here, on A-net.
I can only imagine most of the industry has a fair idea of the challenges that Boeing took on with the 787, and the product quality and cost targets justify the level of challenge.

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 73):
This delay seems to be of the most concern not for airlines or investors but for some people on this forum who used to think: "Can't happen to Boeing, because Boeing is Boeing

 checkmark 

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 84):
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 83):
I will be very shocked to see any 787 order cancellations.

There won't be any..not for a 6 month delay. Longer than a year...that's another story.

FWIW, the A380, delayed horribly for 2 years, struggling along in its tiny, outdated niche , it's outdated technology , surrounded by smaller, better, more market friendly competitors , and a much "safer" VLA alternative (  tongue  ), still had virtually no cancellations.

Given the population size of the 787 customer sample group, it's possible there may be the odd cancellation. I don't think there will be, but I honestly think, if there are any at all, they will be utterly trivial in number.

Regards

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