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clickhappy
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ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:34 pm

ATA Tries To Have You Arrested For Using Your iPhone In "Airplane Mode"

http://consumerist.com/consumer/trav...iphone-in-airplane-mode-309421.php
 
Delta11
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:48 pm

Yes the FA is somewhat in the wrong buy going back and forth and making an issue. But any case the FA give direction and the passenger failed to obey. US law, failing to follow a direction of a flight crew is a crime. So the guy pushed the line and should have just said ok and turned off the phone and then filed a complaint. But some pasagners right or worng need to make a point.
 
flynavy
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:48 pm

What an idiotic cabin crew! I use my iPhone all the time in airplane mode when I fly. Morons!
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:49 pm

Regardless of whether FA's know the ins and outs of "flight modes" etc, they are running the show, so if they ask little Casey to turn it off, he is obliged to do so. I'm sure there is more to this, because it's unusual for FA's to lose it as badly as the article states.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
jmc757
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:52 pm

I have flown with Thomsonfly twice this year and once with bmibaby and their flight announcements both stated "No mobile phones or transmitting devices must be used during the flight, even those that have a flight mode". A agree with BHX, its their plane, they run the show, if they ask you not to do something, you don't do it.
 
pilotboi
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:02 pm

Wow - well first off, I find it just stupid to not allow devices in flight mode to be used. If it really did have any thing to do with that specific aircraft, then NO electronic devices should be allowed. Putting a phone in flight mode makes it the same as a MP3 player, laptop (which no one usually turn's off their wireless anyways!!), and tons of other things.

Second off, and more important to what I wanted to say...all of the flight attendants mentioned sounded like cold-hearted b!#%$es. If you can't be polite to a passenger even when they are doing some wrong, then I'm sorry - but you don't deserve to be a flight attendant. There was no reason for any of these flight attendants to act the way they were. I hope they learned their lessons.
 
CALMSP
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:05 pm

cabin crew is in the wrong here 100%. If they fail to understand the guidelines set forth that is their fault. The F/A should be suspended w/o pay for causing a disruption not only to this pax, but to the rest of the pax on the plane.

my favorite quote is: "i've called the police, you're going to jail". Lets hope he didn't use a cell phone!!

on a sidenote...........with the electronics on......they are lucky the a/c landed safely!! Who knows what would hvae happened should it have been on under 10,000 feet  Embarrassment
 
MDorBust
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:08 pm

Quoting Delta11 (Reply 1):
But any case the FA give direction and the passenger failed to obey.



Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 3):
Regardless of whether FA's know the ins and outs of "flight modes" etc, they are running the show, so if they ask little Casey to turn it off, he is obliged to do so.

So if the FA ordered you to strip naked and suck off the guy sitting next to you, you would do it?

Didn't think so. You must obey the reasonable and legal requests of a FA. If the airline allows the operation of non-broadcasting electronics then you can use non-broadcasting electronics.

The FAs were idiots. They need to be fired.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
SABE
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mod

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:13 pm

Methinks that flight attendant needs to go back to training for a little while. This is an absolutely idiotic way to treat a customer.

But the really shocking part is -- what's a guy with enough money to buy an iPhone doing on a TZ plane?  duck   Smile
TUS-DFW-EZE... can't wait to visit home again!
 
MSYtristar
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:13 pm

The last flight I was on the F/A asked me about my iPhone. I showed her the airplane mode feature and all was well. Usually, though, if someone asks, I just tell them it's an iPod. Less potential for drama that way.
 
ikramerica
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:20 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 9):
The last flight I was on the F/A asked me about my iPhone. I showed her the airplane mode feature and all was well. Usually, though, if someone asks, I just tell them it's an iPod. Less potential for drama that way.

Now that Apple makes the iPod touch that looks very much like an iPhone, but still has wifi built in, it will be even more confusing to technophobic F/As that don't know how everything works.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:23 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
it will be even more confusing to technophobic F/As that don't know how everything works.

They should be educated about them then. How long will it take? A simple memo and an illustration of the indication of airplane mode?

This goes along the line of TSA people who say you cannot take pictures of airplanes. Maybe they should be required to read the FAR's cover to cover before they start work.
I love ASO!
 
CALMSP
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting SABE (Reply 8):

excellent comment!!! I'm laughing at this one!!!  laughing 
 
WNCrew
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:58 pm

Well, first and foremost pax should always comply with company policy and FAR's enforced by FA's....no more questions asked. It's not my job to know how each and every device works, what the little indicator for airplane mode looks like etc. It is YOUR job to listen and pay attention to the rules of the carrier you are traveling on.

I am never ever rude to pax under any circumstances but there is NO need to challenge FA's when they are simply doing their job. At WN our policy states that ALL Portable Electronic Devices be switched off prior to door closure and must remain off until the aircraft has reached 10,000 feet. After 10,000 Portable Electronics can be turned back on but cannot send or receive a signal...cell phones must be in game/airplane mode. This is NOT the case for ALL airlines so pay attention. Whether or not this seems logical, fair, absurd,or practical to the passenger isn't really relevant. The rules were stated and you are asked to comply...the end. FA's are not there to talk about the likelihood of whether or not your Sony Handi-cam will affect the radios in the flight deck...so do as you're told.

As for calling security, that's is exactly what FAA asks us to do. When pax are non-compliant it's VERY frustrating because as a crewmember there is very little we can do....and it proves that the offender is quite the idiot as well. The FAA can and will fine pax for breaking FAR's...even being up while the seatbelt sign is on and you have been asked to take your seat. The FAA asks that we document the infarction along with the pax's name address etc. The problem is that most pax won't willingly give that information over so we end up having to call security. This might seem silly but so it NOT following the direction of the FA's after simple direction has been given. Instead of a "I'm doing it.."..or "I'll shut it off in a minute..." or "I'm not done I'll do it before we land.." just say, "Sure, no problem.." and then wait until I walk away and leave the damn thing running for all I care. As long as you don't undermine me to inflate your ego or start arguing with me in front of other pax after I've asked you to do something you should have done to begin with then just take it back out after we sit down. If we have an accident on landing and your laptop comes flying out of your lap and knocks you or another customer out, or comes out of the seatback pocket and hurts you...then we'll have plenty of witnesses to say you never did put it away and they'll know exactly who to sue....not me, I asked you to comply.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
IFlyATA
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:05 pm

On every flight, during the safety briefing, they say "passengers are required to comply with all signs, placards, and crew member instructions." It mentions nothing about the instructions YOU think are important.

The passenger claims they think MP3 players are allowed over 10,000 feet, and explained that to the flight attendent. As was later pointed out in their rant, the FAA handbook did say MP3 players are allowed over 10,000 feet. However, the passenger was not using an MP3 player. They were using a CELL PHONE with MP3 playing capability.

Given that tech industry is coming out with all sorts of new devices to provide entertainment and additional services, it's impossible to keep up with them all in the handbooks and rulebooks, and to cover every sceanario.

According to the passengers own account of what the FAA handbook said, "things not allowed in flight: talking on cell phones, playing online cell phone games..." Could it be that the flight attendents interperted the rules prohibity cell phone use to include an iPhone? I think that is very likely.

At the risk of playing symantics, this passenger was watching a movie at the time. Movie's are not MP3s. MP3s are audio/music. And it's probably a safe assumtion to say the passenger wasn't just listening to the movie.

The rules are clearly defined, MP3 players are allowed over 10,000 feet. Cell phones, are not.

Lastly, this is only one side of the story, from a tremendously bias source, so I am sure it has been beefed up to fit the media mold. I can say for a fact, ATA is responding to the complaint.
ATA - an honestly different airline.
 
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PA110
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:19 pm

There are times when you can tell there's a lot more to the story than what you're getting. This one, on the other hand seems pretty straight forward. The FA overreacted, and the passenger dug in his heels. True, not everyone is tech savvy, but when part of your job concerns monitoring the use of these devices, it is to everyone's benefit to educate yourself if even just a little. There is absolutely no point in unnecessarily antagonizing a customer who is trying to follow the restrictions.

This incident is not entirely dissimilar to WN's fashion police incidents. Overzealous enforcement of regulations is just as bad as lack of enforcement. Nobody's perfect, and I think this FA just didn't handle it has well as he should have.
Look, it's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
 
ikramerica
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:22 pm

Quoting IFlyATA (Reply 14):
According to the passengers own account of what the FAA handbook said, "things not allowed in flight: talking on cell phones, playing online cell phone games..." Could it be that the flight attendents interperted the rules prohibity cell phone use to include an iPhone? I think that is very likely.

Other airlines announce that electronics with wireless ability must be placed in "flight mode" or disable the wireless mode.

It is quite obvious that ATA is not up to speed. A cell phone in flight mode is an APPROVED device. It's not really open to interpretation.

Of course, you should obey instructions, but if ignorance of the law is not a defense for a defendant, it certainly isn't a defense for someone in a position of authority, now is it?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Pope
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting Delta11 (Reply 1):
But any case the FA give direction and the passenger failed to obey. US law, failing to follow a direction of a flight crew is a crime.



Quoting WNCrew (Reply 13):
Well, first and foremost pax should always comply with company policy and FAR's enforced by FA's....no more questions asked.



Quoting IFlyATA (Reply 14):
On every flight, during the safety briefing, they say "passengers are required to comply with all signs, placards, and crew member instructions." It mentions nothing about the instructions YOU think are important.

I'll ask all you this question - If a FA told you to slap the person in the seat next to you, is that an order that should be obeyed? You guys all set out a simple absolute rule. Do you care to define it more precisely?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:27 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
A cell phone in flight mode is an APPROVED device. It's not really open to interpretation.

Exactly. End of story. Classic overreaction by flight attendant's who are clearly not trained well enough.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:33 pm

Quoting Jmc757 (Reply 4):
"No mobile phones or transmitting devices must be used during the flight, even those that have a flight mode"

I think WW might have changed the announcement slightly over the summer. Before summer the announcement implied that all phones must be switched off, at all times, now the order has changed a bit, and the message implies that all electronic devices must remain off while the seat-belt sign is on, and walkman phones can be used in flight....


I think it goes something like this:
Ladies and gentlemen as the main cabin door has now been closed, this is an important announcement for your safety, mobile phones, walkmans/iPod/MP3 players, laptops and all other perspnal electronic equipment must now be switched off. The use of mobile phones is not permitted at any time untill you are well inside the termanl building at XXX. MP3, etc may be used once we have reached our cruising altitute and teh seatbelt sign has been switched off. [I]Only at that time may electronic devices be used, and this includes mobile phones with flight safe and walkman modes,[I] all devices must be stowed once again for landing"

Its not word-for-word, but itsl close....

Brian.
 
ikramerica
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:42 pm

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 19):
Before summer the announcement implied that all phones must be switched off, at all times, now the order has changed a bit, and the message implies that all electronic devices must remain off while the seat-belt sign is on, and walkman phones can be used in flight....

QF was saying this last year, and it was the first I heard of "flight mode" since most of our phones in the USA are behind the times.

But this year, I've heard flight mode mentioned on AA and CO. I've also heard AA say to turn off wireless on computers that have it, or they can't be used.

TZ is just behind the curve here, and nobody should be arrested for it.

The F/As just need some "re-Ned-ucation." diddly.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
MDorBust
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:42 pm

Quoting IFlyATA (Reply 14):
According to the passengers own account of what the FAA handbook said, "things not allowed in flight: talking on cell phones, playing online cell phone games..." Could it be that the flight attendents interperted the rules prohibity cell phone use to include an iPhone? I think that is very likely.

"Talking on cell phones" means exactly that. Talking. He wasn't. "Playing onlice cell phone games" has a certain requirement, online. He wasn't online. FA's don't get interpret the rules how they see fit. He wasn't breaking any of the rules therefore the request of the FA wasn't reasonable and he didn't need to follow it.

[Edited 2007-10-11 11:43:13]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
chase
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:42 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
A cell phone in flight mode is an APPROVED device. It's not really open to interpretation.

Exactly. End of story. Classic overreaction by flight attendant's who are clearly not trained well enough.

Approved by whom? The FAA? The airlines are allowed to have more strict rules than the FAA, and pax must comply with the stricter requirements. This is why, for instance, even though GPS devices are allowed on NW, CO, and UA, they are prohibited (regardless of altitude) on AA, WN, and TZ.
 
pilotboi
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 11):
They should be educated about them then. How long will it take? A simple memo and an illustration of the indication of airplane mode?

This goes along the line of TSA people who say you cannot take pictures of airplanes. Maybe they should be required to read the FAR's cover to cover before they start work.

That would be a good idea. They don't really even need to know the indication - just the fact that it's possible. And if a passenger says its in flight mode - I'd trust them.

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 13):
It's not my job to know how each and every device works, what the little indicator for airplane mode looks like etc.

You don't need to know all the indicators. Just be aware that devices can have their communications side deactivated. I'm sure you are aware of this - but some F/As (like the ones in this article) don't.
 
NWADC9
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:50 pm

Midwest and its regional affiliates allow cell-phones in flight mode and do state it. So, if it's ok on a CRJ-200, a 717, and a Do328Jet, why is it bad news for a 757 or 737? I love how the flight attendants alter their story to the police, as well...
I get paid to convert dead dino juice into noise.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:55 pm

Each airline has their own policies/interpretations of FAA rules. I f we have any ATA F/As on here they may be able to enlighten us on ATA's policy. I know that at Hawaiian "Airplane Mode" is OK above 10,000 feet.

-Aloha!
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MSYtristar
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:56 pm

Quoting Chase (Reply 22):
The airlines are allowed to have more strict rules than the FAA, and pax must comply with the stricter requirements

Very true. That's why people who have iPhones are advised to just keep the iPod display showing and tell the F/A's that it's an iPod touch. Easy enough, really. It's up to the pax to obey regulations obviously, but it's up to the F/A's to learn about the products out there and make decisions accordingly.
 
ikramerica
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting Chase (Reply 22):
Approved by whom? The FAA?

Yes. If an airline allows you to use something on a flight, that means it is approved by the FAA. An airline is NOT allowed to allow you to use non-approved devices.

If an airline decides to make rules above and beyond the FAA, that is fine. But they are not criminally enforceable. No judge or jury would do anything about it unless the passenger did something else wrong. And we've seen plenty of these cases dropped when the F/A was the one over reacting/escalating the encounter.

Again, ignorance of the law by those empowered to enforce it is not a valid excuse.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
kstatepilot
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:08 pm

Why is it hard for everyone to just listen:
"Follow all crewmember instructions" That means if the F/A wants the thing off, TURN IT OFF. That is not the same as slap the person next to you. It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong. Example:

I was flying on a Saab 340 once. I had my Bose aviation headset ANR on. The F/A told me to turn it off. Did I argue with her by saying if I was in the cockpit I could use it? No I turned it off.

This is why there are very few good flight attendants in the world today, all of you don't follow the rules, they get stressed out and leave the job.
 
g4resagent
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:11 pm

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 28):

I agree... just like the pilot is "God" in the air, the FA has almost the same power. If a Crew Member asks you to turn it off, just turn it off. The guy could have just said okay and turned the movie off... the movie isn't that good anyways.
 
WNCrew
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:11 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 17):
I'll ask all you this question - If a FA told you to slap the person in the seat next to you, is that an order that should be obeyed? You guys all set out a simple absolute rule. Do you care to define it more precisely?

Oh come on now...why would I ever ask someone to do something so asinine? That's just silly.

Now, when it comes to Portable Electronic Devices, yes AGAIN I will explain myself:

The FAA says ALL PORTABLE ELECTRONIC DEVICES must be turned off and stowed below 10,000 feet (except during taxi-in to the gate when cell-phones may be used...as the aircraft is no longer preparing for take-off but deplaning at the gate). Now, as for what may or may not be used ABOVE 10,000 feet, that is up to the individual airline. At WN we do NOT allow GPS devices (why you ask, I have NO clue, but my job is to enforce it) but we DO allow Cell-phones in game/airplane mode. I don't ask to verify if something is in it's mode....most people understand the rules. In this case it seems possible that the FA could have overreacted...I wasn't there so I don't know. I am simply responding to the posts which talk about how we should be educated about these devices and how "..it doesn't even really do anything to the airplane..." etc. There is no way we could possibly be educated on ALL devices and their functions...personally I trust that pax (being adults) are quite capable of determining whether or not they are in compliance. In regards to following crewmember instructions, I am referring to preparation for takeoff/landing when pax insist something is in such-and-such mode...or " I will turn it off [insert attitude]..." Just smile and do it...you know the rules.

Last week MDW-PHL on final descent at about 4,000ft pax in 1F was just gabbing away on his phone to his wife....having a full-on conversation. I leaned forward and said, "Sir, I'm sorry but your phone should be turned off at this time." To which he replied.."Oh please, look how close we are to the ground....anyway...I'm almost finished."

SCUSE ME? NO, I asked you nicely to do something you KNEW you were supposed to do (otherwise why the rebuttal) and now you're saying no? I simply smiled at the other pax, who's mouths were hanging in awe as he continued to chat away...and I took my jumpseat. Should I have had security meet the flight to make sure I was able to write him up with the FAA? YES! But it's such a chore to do any of it that I had to let it go. Everytime people get away with behavior like that, and in front of other pax, it erodes at the TINY bit of authority/credibility we have as FA's...and they do it again and again....until someone DOES do something.

I'm not saying this FA in particular was in the right...I don't have all of the facts. I'm speaking to the posters who insist we're being rediculous when we ask you to comply with an FAR or company policy. I'm speaking to those who seem to think they should be free from rules/regulation simply b/c they don't agree with them, or they don't make sense, or " XYZ Airlines let me do it..."
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
MDorBust
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:11 pm

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 28):
Why is it hard for everyone to just listen:
"Follow all crewmember instructions" That means if the F/A wants the thing off, TURN IT OFF.

Uh, no.

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 28):
It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong. Example:

Yes, it does.

The FA only has the authority granted to them. They do not have the authority to tell you to turn off approved devices used in approved manners at approved times.

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 28):
I was flying on a Saab 340 once. I had my Bose aviation headset ANR on. The F/A told me to turn it off. Did I argue with her by saying if I was in the cockpit I could use it? No I turned it off.

That's a good little sheep.

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 28):
This is why there are very few good flight attendants in the world today, all of you don't follow the rules, they get stressed out and leave the job.

Yeah, now it's the customers fault the product sucks.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
RussianJet
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:11 pm

Well, if you were silly enough to buy an iPhone then you deserve the flack - they suck!  duck 

But seriously, the bottom line is you have to do as you're told.

Quoting Pope (Reply 17):
If a FA told you to slap the person in the seat next to you, is that an order that should be obeyed?

That bears no relation to the situation at hand. Exaggerate all you want, but right or wrong as the FA may be, in this case should should just follow orders.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
MDorBust
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:16 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
But seriously, the bottom line is you have to do as you're told.



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
That bears no relation to the situation at hand.

I can't believe I'm reading stuff like this. First it's you have to do as you're told no matter what... then in almost the same breath you say that people who point out extremes don't count. Well, which is it? Do as you're told no matter what, or you don't have to do things that the FA has no authority to tell you? Common sense, any authority figure, be it the police or an FA only has the authority to tell you to do things that are A) legal for them to tell you to do, and B) Sensibile. Sorry, the FA overstepped those bounds.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
kstatepilot
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RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:18 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):

That's a good little sheep.

There is no reason to insult me for following the rules. I do what the F/A tells me to do, or I get kicked off the aircraft. I certainly hope you don't try to use your gadgets and harass my flight attendants about it. I know even when the F/A is wrong about this kindof thing the cockpit crew agrees with her.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:20 pm

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 34):
There is no reason to insult me for following the rules.

What rule did you break stating you couldn't wear your headset?

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 34):
I do what the F/A tells me to do, or I get kicked off the aircraft.

How about getting naked and slapping people?

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 34):
I certainly hope you don't try to use your gadgets and harass my flight attendants about it.

I use gadgets every time I fly. Oddly enough, the FAs never bother me about them. They must be properly trained.

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 34):
I know even when the F/A is wrong about this kindof thing the cockpit crew agrees with her.

Ah, because it's okay if they are wrong in groups... hmm.. interesting.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
kstatepilot
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:23 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):

What rule did you break stating you couldn't wear your headset?

No electronics below 10,000 ft.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):

How about getting naked and slapping people?

LoL, you are funny. Have you ever non-reved?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):
I use gadgets every time I fly. Oddly enough, the FAs never bother me about them. They must be properly trained.

When do you use them? When you are at 3,000 on approach or at FL350 in cruise? There is quite a difference here...
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:28 pm

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 36):
No electronics below 10,000 ft.

Do you think maybe, just maybe you should have included that little detail in your original assertion. Because, you see, now you were doing something wrong and against an established rule. Not so much in your original version.

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 36):
LoL, you are funny. Have you ever non-reved?

Non-reving has nothing to do with this.

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 36):
When do you use them? When you are at 3,000 on approach or at FL350 in cruise? There is quite a difference here...

Yay, now the story has completely changed. Good show.

So, I take it you can no longer counter the claim that the FA had no authority to ask Mr. Casey to turn off his approved device being used in an approved manner at an approved time?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:30 pm

How the hell and who the hell could he of been talking too if he's in the middle of a flight to Hawaii? Last time I checked that was right over the Pacific Ocean. If that's really how it went down, then that's one stupid f/a. Good for him.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:30 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 33):
I can't believe I'm reading stuff like this. First it's you have to do as you're told no matter what... then in almost the same breath you say that people who point out extremes don't count. Well, which is it? Do as you're told no matter what, or you don't have to do things that the FA has no authority to tell you? Common sense, any authority figure, be it the police or an FA only has the authority to tell you to do things that are A) legal for them to tell you to do, and B) Sensibile. Sorry, the FA overstepped those bounds.

Two points here - Firstly, in this situation, yes you do have to do as you're told, and as with anything in flight, if you're aggrieved then make the complaint afterwards having complied with the law. Secondly, I've lost count of the times that pax think they don't have to obey some rule or other because they assume they know why - when in fact they haven't a clue. Sorry, but in the air you DO have to do as you're asked by crew.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15059
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:30 pm

You must listen to crew member instructions until they start LYING. Then, it's a different story.

If the F/A had said something different, I'd agree. But he specifically claimed it was against FAA REGULATIONS, and when he failed to produce those regulations (since it is not true), rather than admit his mistake, he escalated the conflict, dragged his superior into it, got her to lie (or confused her), called the police, etc. Further, he kept saying "you can not TALK ON THE PHONE" and the person being harassed was NOT TALKING ON THE PHONE so he was not in violation of the instructions. At best, the F/A was creating confusion by giving false or conflicting instructions, at worst, he was incompetent because he could not tell the difference between someone watching a movie and someone talking on the phone.

Here's a primer for the F/A:

If the person isn't talking AT ALL, he probably isn't talking on the phone.
If there is a movie clearly playing on the device, it is clearly playing a movie.
A movie or tv show is not an "online game" and this is not a vague distinction. It is clearly distinguishable.
Customers are permitted to watch videos and dvds on electronic devices, which are in many formats.
Finally, the rule clearly allows for listening to MP3, and because MP4 is technically a container file type that often contains MP3 audio, the man was doing nothing wrong, and in fact the rule the F/A produced verified he was doing nothing wrong. Lying and saying he is "talking on the phone" does not alter reality.

Thus the F/A should have seen this rule, said "I'm sorry for my mistake" and moved along. Instead, he called the cops.

The police could tell this F/A was wrong. They did not press charges despite the "refusal to follow crew member instructions" because the F/A was obviously an over reacting twit who was confusing and changing his story.

It would be no different if the man went to the bathroom, and the F/A yelled at him "no smoking" even though he wasn't smoking and then when he came out, told him "I told you not to smoke" and then had him arrested. If the man wasn't smoking in the first place, how is he in the wrong?

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 28):
I was flying on a Saab 340 once. I had my Bose aviation headset ANR on. The F/A told me to turn it off. Did I argue with her by saying if I was in the cockpit I could use it? No I turned it off.

Well, actually, the headphones must be turned off below 10k', which sounds really stupid, but I've heard this on other airlines.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
Well, if you were silly enough to buy an iPhone then you deserve the flack - they suck!

Reading the obviously skewed account, I actually get the impression that this might have been the snotty F/As beef. He was jealous of the phone. And thus he made every excuse in the book to try to convince the guy he can't use his new toy...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Boston92
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting IFlyATA (Reply 14):

Cmon, your whole post is biased. You are no better than the FA, you are changing the way the rules are written. Just because "UFlyATA", doesn't mean they were in the right.

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 28):
I was flying on a Saab 340 once. I had my Bose aviation headset ANR on. The F/A told me to turn it off. Did I argue with her by saying if I was in the cockpit I could use it? No I turned it off.

Isn't there any chance, you were below 10,000 feet? Also, I have some of the same headsets, and there is really no way the FA would have known if the ANR was on...so I am having trouble believing you fully.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:52 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 30):
Oh come on now...why would I ever ask someone to do something so asinine? That's just silly.

Well now you're interjecting asinine (a subjective determination) into the mix. First you say

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 13):
I am never ever rude to pax under any circumstances but there is NO need to challenge FA's when they are simply doing their job

Are you now arguing that a passenger has the right to subjectively determine whether or not the instruction given by the FA is asinine? It seems inconsistent to me. Which one is it? Should the law require passengers blindly observe crew member instructions no matter how asinine THEY (the passenger) CONSIDER THEM TO BE or do they have a right disobey an instruction they (the passenger) consider to be asinine?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
kstatepilot
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:23 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 37):

Non-reving has nothing to do with this.

Actually it does. If you argue with the crew you get kicked off the aircraft. Fast.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 41):
Isn't there any chance, you were below 10,000 feet?

We were still on the ground actually.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
That bears no relation to the situation at hand. Exaggerate all you want, but right or wrong as the FA may be, in this case should should just follow orders.

I believe they are completely relevant to the discussion. Posters have stated the rule of compliance with crew member instructions as an absolute. I'm just exploring whether or not they really believe that.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Boston92
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 43):
We were still on the ground actually.

Well then thats the reason.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 39):
Two points here - Firstly, in this situation, yes you do have to do as you're told, and as with anything in flight, if you're aggrieved then make the complaint afterwards having complied with the law.

100% BS

You only have to comply with requests the FA has the authority to make. Nothing else.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 39):
Secondly, I've lost count of the times that pax think they don't have to obey some rule or other because they assume they know why - when in fact they haven't a clue.

That's dandy, but he wasn't breaking a rule.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 39):
Sorry, but in the air you DO have to do as you're asked by crew.

That would make a great way for FA's to get instant retirement funds. "excuse me sir, you have to sign your 401k over to me."

Nope, no authority to request such. Just like they don't have the the authority to tell you to stop using a device you are allowed to use.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:00 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 44):
Posters have stated the rule of compliance with crew member instructions as an absolute. I'm just exploring whether or not they really believe that.

I believe it's the law. yes. Especially when during flight.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mod

Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:02 pm

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 11):
They should be educated about them then. How long will it take? A simple memo and an illustration of the indication of airplane mode?

The union would probably ask that each FA get comped $2000 to spend time getting this training.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:03 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 47):
I believe it's the law.

Then you believe wrong. No one in the United States has supreme authority or can tell any person to do anything they want simply because of their position.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen

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