iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 89):
if he or she has a reasonable concern about the safety of the passengers and crew, then his or her directions should be followed.

problem is arresting a pax for a non-harmful device is not about safety, but the FA's insecure feelings of powerlessness

as much as they like to act like them, FAs are not schoolteachers, and they've got paying customers, most of whom have other options than to fly POS airlines like ATA
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mod

Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:31 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 89):
Yeah. I'll remember that the next time the FA on a recent regional flight spent the takeoff roll standing in the galley of an RJ chuffing down her Burger King sandwich and grabbing for her BK drink when it was about to spill on the floor.

Correct me if I am wrong, because you saw one irresponsible flight attendant standing while she should be sitting...you have arrived at the conclusion that flight attendants, in general, have no power or authority?

UMMMM....the last I checked, flight attendants are uniformed crew members, and are there for your safety. I don't know where you get the idea that only the captain has any authority on the aircraft. Just try doing as you please and telling the flight attendant to f*ck off because they are powerless...see where that gets you, buddy.
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 789 781 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:34 pm

Quoting Varigb707 (Reply 77):
ATA isn't a real airline anyway. So, what else could you expect from them.

WOW, what an adult and compelling argument. I totally agree, not only is ATA not a "real airline", but their flight attendants are poo-poo heads, too!
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 789 781 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
OBSMGR
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:40 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:51 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 27):
If an airline decides to make rules above and beyond the FAA, that is fine. But they are not criminally enforceable. No judge or jury would do anything about it unless the passenger did something else wrong. And we've seen plenty of these cases dropped when the F/A was the one over reacting/escalating the encounter.

Again, ignorance of the law by those empowered to enforce it is not a valid excuse.

#1. Airlines write the procedures and policies for their carrier- which are written to comply with FAA requirements. When/IF the FAA approves the Airline's procedures, it becomes an FAA regulation. Example- When the E170s entered service, cell phone use was allowed on the ground after landing on the aircraft US operated, but not on the aircraft RP operated (even though the FAA allowed it on their E145s) Why? Because the FAA had not approved the ammendment RP proposed to THEIR procedures and policies to allow it. (They wanted additional testing in-fact). SO, the lesson here is that a rule at one carrier, may not be the same at another carrier, so....

#2. When a uniformed crew member gives you instructions, you are required to follow them. I've never in my life seen or heard of a crew member asking someone to do anything that required them to harm another passenger or themselves (unless you count their ego). But I've seen MANY, MANY, MANY occasions where a passenger felt it was beneath them to comply with directions regarding electronic devices. Personally, I think the policy should be that if the F/A catches you using a device and asks you to turn it off, and you dont, they will turn it off for you- with an ice hammer.

Have a nice flight.
I just Googled your Yahoo :)
 
steveswa737
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:41 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:13 pm

quote=Pope,reply=91]Blindly following crew member instructions is just as stupid as blindly ignoring them. When FA's like you come on this forum and act as if your jobs are the most crucial in the world, my only though is, then why doesn't the market pay you better? I guess the market determines exactly what your worth in the big picture truly is.[/quote]

Following crew members "reasonable" instructions is not stupid. Not turning off your iPhone after you are told that the police will be called is very stupid. It appears to me that it turned into a "pissing contest" between the crew and the passenger. Bottom line: The passenger could have avoided his unfortunate meeting with the police if he simply turned off the device.

Nobody is saying that the job of a FA is the most crucial in the world. FA's just ask that you comply with simple requests. Turning off a portable electronic device during flight is a simple and reasonable request. How did the passenger know that it wasn't company policy? FA's are required to enforce FAR's AND company rules. At WN, we do not let people wait outside the forward lavatory due to the close proximity of the forward lavatory to the cockpit. We are told to ask customers to wait at their seats until the forward lavatory in vacant. Is that a Federal Aviation Regulation? NO. It is a security measure that the FAA put out after 9/11. WN chose to implement this security measure and has asked the FA's to enforce it.

PS: If one more person brings up getting naked and slapping people, I'm gonna assume you are into S&M and suggest a website that you may like better than airliners.net  devil 
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting Steveswa737 (Reply 98):
When FA's like you come on this forum and act as if your jobs are the most crucial in the world, my only though is, then why doesn't the market pay you better? I guess the market determines exactly what your worth in the big picture truly is.

Your comments tell much about your character, which for you, is a very bad thing. Why? Because if pay determines self-worth, you must think professional athletes are gods amongst men and teachers are the scum of the Earth. Grow up.
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 789 781 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15637
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:57 pm

Y'know, there's one thing that makes me think this whole story is B.S. - and that's the part about "coming back with a HUGE book of FAA rules."

I've never been a flight attendant, but I'm finding it hard to believe that crews routinely travel with copies of the most recent FAR/AIM with them...and that they'd use it to say "neener neener neener" to a passenger.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting OBSMGR (Reply 97):
I think the policy should be that if the F/A catches you using a device and asks you to turn it off, and you dont, they will turn it off for you- with an ice hammer.

this type of attitude towards the arbitrary rules on elec devices is one reason why airlines have had so much financial trouble

we pay your salary, if you need to issue instructions like a schoolteacher in order to feel good about yourself, go become one
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:29 pm

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 101):
this type of attitude towards the arbitrary rules on elec devices is one reason why airlines have had so much financial trouble

HAHAHAHAHA...yes! Surely, it's not oil prices, it's not competition, it's not excessive market saturation, it's not the immense cost and burden of post-9/11 security...it's...(drum roll)..."not being allowed to use a cell phone in flight" that is killing the airlines today!
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 789 781 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:31 pm

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 101):
we pay your salary,

God I hate this argument...

No more solid logic than a flight attendant saying :"We get you where you are going so you can EARN your salary"
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 789 781 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
silentbob
Posts: 1591
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 84):
Republic: You can't put anything in the seat back pockets. Their cabin safety wench was riding in the back and flipped out about a guy putting a laptop, Coke bottle, or something along those lines in the pocket. That inspector then forced a manual change requiring flight attendants to make you remove anything in the pocket that wasn't put there by the airline.

It's amazing How many of those pockets are broken every day by people putting everything but the kitchen sink into them.

Quoting TCFC424 (Reply 85):
So many posters here are citing the extremes. Thank you all for posting the actual FAA regulations, the FAR's, and the TZ contract of carriage. This thread would have ended pretty quickly if they had been the first few replies...some just don't know the importance of research...the same research they request airlines force their employees through to learn the in's and out's of each new tech-gadget.

Wild and unlikely hypothetical situations are usually much more accurate and apt than actual laws and contract verbiage. Had the actual contract been posted in reply #2, this topic would still have reached 100+ responses.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 101):
we pay your salary, if you need to issue instructions like a schoolteacher in order to feel good about yourself, go become one

There are a few FAs who do act like overprotective nannies, but there are significantly more passengers who act like schoolchildren.
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mod

Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:27 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 75):

There are far more pilots that will tell you, from personal experience, otherwise.

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 83):
Believe me, i'm sure there are FA's that are -that- stupid, that if pacemakers were in plain visible view, you'd probably already have an incident such as I described above.

I'm sure you are pretty stupid for making a remark like that.

Quoting TCFC424 (Reply 85):

 checkmark 

End of story.

Quoting Wukka (Reply 89):
Yeah. I'll remember that the next time the FA on a recent regional flight spent the takeoff roll standing in the galley of an RJ chuffing down her Burger King sandwich and grabbing for her BK drink when it was about to spill on the floor.

That's golden.


"Trying to stay out of trouble."

Good luck with that.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 94):

 Yeah sure
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:56 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:32 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 75):

I had a TZ pilot tell me the whole ordeal behind electronic devices being turned off is BS. It has nothing to do with interference with electronic equipment. He told me the reason they do this is to make sure you pay attention to the FAs. This comes from the mouth of a TZ L1011 pilot. This conversation was witnessed by another a.netter.

He's obviously never left his cellphone on in his pocket on a flight. I can tell you from my piloting experience that it will cause interference with at the very least the radios. Ever set your phone next to a speaker?
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
OBSMGR
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:40 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:32 pm

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 104):
There are a few FAs who do act like overprotective nannies, but there are significantly more passengers who act like schoolchildren.

Or worse.

If you dont like the fact that as airline employees we have rules to follow, and that those rules may result in us telling you that you cant do something you want to do, and feel you are entitled to do-


DONT FLY US, GET IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE YOURSELF WHERE YOU NEED TO GO.

If you want to use a public form of transportation (like an airplane) then realize that you will be EXPECTED and REQUIRED to follow rules that you expressly agreed to when you bought your ticket. If you cant deal with that,
you car is waiting...
I just Googled your Yahoo :)
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting OBSMGR (Reply 107):
DONT FLY US, GET IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE YOURSELF WHERE YOU NEED TO GO.

THOSE OF US WITH MONEY TO SPEND ARE GOING TO PRIVATE JETS, GOOD LUCK EARNING A DECENT LIVING WHEN ALL THE HIGH MARGIN PAX HAVE ABANDONED YOU AND YOUR SILLY POWER TRIPS.
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 103):
God I hate this argument...

of course you do, because it's true
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:10 pm

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 102):
HAHAHAHAHA...yes!

what a mature response

I can't tell you how many business pax won't fly commercial because the Soviet bread line customer service has encouraged them to find alternatives - ranging from Acela to FlexJets to Air Taxis like Linear Air

been plenty of chapter 11 filings in this industry, and from the looks of it, plenty more coming...
 
Indy
Posts: 4927
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:10 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 106):
He's obviously never left his cellphone on in his pocket on a flight. I can tell you from my piloting experience that it will cause interference with at the very least the radios. Ever set your phone next to a speaker?

No but on my computer desk sits my cordless phone and my cell phone. This is right by my computer case, monitor, modem, router and external drive. Not a single problem. Not only was I told this by an airline pilot but I also had it validated by an electrical engineer. The wiring in the jet is shielded better than that. If the systems were designed so poorly that a cell phone could interfere with them then you have designed a system that would be severely compromised by any kind of solar disturbance.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
kstatepilot
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:23 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:17 pm

Lets get back to the original topic. If it was legal or not to use the device, the F/A told him to turn it off. PERIOD
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14267
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 111):
Not only was I told this by an airline pilot but I also had it validated by an electrical engineer. The wiring in the jet is shielded better than that.

Tell that to Saab... Are you implying that poor wiring shielding is the reason that 340s/2000s and cell phones don't get along?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
Posts: 4927
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 113):
Tell that to Saab... Are you implying that poor wiring shielding is the reason that 340s/2000s and cell phones don't get along?

I'm not saying that you don't know what you are talking about by this reply. I only bring it up because I've never heard of a problem with the Saabs. Also has there been proof that cells cause problems with the 340's? Or is it a theory?

And if the Saab is having problems with a cell phone I can promise you I'll never fly another Saab again. People also need to remember that the transmit power of a cell doesn't compare to the transmit power of a cell tower. But to your original comment I'd say poor wire shielding is a problem then. I had a friend down in Florida that used to live near Patrick AFB. He had a pretty crappy modem (this is back in the day) and it would pick up signals from the base. He had to wrap it in aluminum foil to stop the problem. I haven't seen anything like that in many years. So my opinion is that if you are picking up interference from something as minor as a cell phone you have some pretty inferior electronics.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14267
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 114):
Also has there been proof that cells cause problems with the 340's?

It's tough to prove causes, because most accidents are the result of many failures, but cell phone use was certainly implicated in the LX accident.

Quoting Indy (Reply 114):
I'm not saying that you don't know what you are talking about by this reply. I only bring it up because I've never heard of a problem with the Saabs.

The FAA's reticence (refusal? I'm not sure about Colgan) to permit cell phone use after landing on Saabs would indicate to me that they believe a problem exists.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
Posts: 4927
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 115):
The FAA's reticence (refusal? I'm not sure about Colgan) to permit cell phone use after landing on Saabs would indicate to me that they believe a problem exists.

If the Saab wiring is so sensitive/unstable that such guidelines are necessary then I certainly won't ever use a Saab again. I'd hate to be on approach somewhere and the plane goes down because Bubba had an illegal power booster on his cb radio. I personally would like to see a demonstration that proves cellphones interfere with the planes electronics. You know how many times I've flown somewhere and found the person next to me using a laptop with the wireless transmitter still turned on? Very often. Ever forgotten your cell was still turned on? It happens. Nothing happens to the plane. As the TZ pilot told me it is all about making sure you pay attention to the flight crew which makes absolute sense.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 110):

been plenty of chapter 11 filings in this industry, and from the looks of it, plenty more coming...

yep...and all because of cell phone usage policies...when will the airlines learn?  Sad
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 789 781 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
Curiousflyer
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:19 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:21 am

I cast my vote: another abusive flight attendant treating a passenger like dirt. And kudos to the police for applying common sense. This flight attendant and the purser do not deserve their jobs, ATA should fire them. I hope they do so.
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 112):
If it was legal or not

handing out arbitrary instructions only makes an FA look like a lifelong loser on a power trip that no normal person will take seriously

FAs really need to become more knowledgeable about elec devices, that would help them apply whatever rules their airlines create consistently
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mod

Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:53 pm

Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 118):
I cast my vote: another abusive flight attendant treating a passenger like dirt. And kudos to the police for applying common sense. This flight attendant and the purser do not deserve their jobs, ATA should fire them. I hope they do so.

The request of the flight attendant, while probably technically incorrect, was still well within the realm of being reasonable. This passenger still had no right to blatantly disregard the flight attendant just because he thought he was technically right. This guy deserved to go to jail for what he did.


What if, for instance, ATA's policy had very recently changed and now airplane mode was not allowed, either, and this guy simply didn't know that. This is exactly why he should have complied Anyone making the claim "what if he was ordered to strip naked" is being ridiculous and they know it.

Any mature individual would have complied with the flight attendant, and wrote a letter of complaint upon completing his or her trip.

There was nothing outrageous or dangerous about the flight attendant's request. End of story.
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 789 781 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting OBSMGR (Reply 107):
DONT FLY US, GET IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE YOURSELF WHERE YOU NEED TO GO.

or we can fly an airline with non-union employees, like B6, one of five airlines we can choose from flying DCA/IAD - MCO, are you afraid of competition?
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:15 pm

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 117):
yep...and all because of cell phone usage policies...when will the airlines learn?

because of Soviet bread line customer service, and unskilled union employees who think they're worth more than they are, read the post before you respond next time
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 122):
because of Soviet bread line customer service, and unskilled union employees who think they're worth more than they are, read the post before you respond next time

Oh and I can just imagine how much your hot-air-filled self thinks you are worth. What a jerk to make such an archaic comment like that.

It's the "unskilled" union employees that allow creatures like you to move around the world.

I'm done responding to anything else you say, because you are irrelevant and useless.

Good day.

PS, what I would give for you to come out on the ramp and tell a group of rampers that they are unskilled and wothless, you'd go home on a strecher
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 789 781 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:27 pm

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 123):

PS, what I would give for you to come out on the ramp and tell a group of rampers that they are unskilled and wothless, you'd go home on a strecher

you have no good response to anything I've said, so you've resorted to physical threats, but you're too afraid to make them directly to me

get a life
 
WNCrew
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:22 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 97):
When FA's like you come on this forum and act as if your jobs are the most crucial in the world, my only though is, then why doesn't the market pay you better? I guess the market determines exactly what your worth in the big picture truly is.

Oh ouch!

I have never made it seem as if my job was any more important than anyone else's. I simply stated that my job is to enforce FAR's and company policies. I KNOW my job inside and out, I KNOW my FAR's..their history, their origins...I know my company policies and why they exist. I operate on the principle that as long as I enforce and adhere to WN policy/FAR's if anythinand I've cited many examples...which oddly haven't been referred to in ANy posts.g ever goes wrong my rear-end will be covered. The problem lies in the fact that pax often feel the need to have a "show-down" about rules.

Whether or not something seems logical, or absurd, or outdated, or ridiculous....if it's an FAR or Company Policy and someone is asking you to comply there's really no reason not to. You're not proving anything to anyone except for that you crave attention and authority. When you're on my plane you have no more authority than the little old lady in seat 1A. You might move a little quicker than she does but you BOTH have to be seated for any movement on the surface, you BOTH have to have ALL portable electronic devices turned off below 10K ft and you BOTH have to wait at your seat before using the FWD lav when flying on WN. That's not me on a power trip, that's me doing my job and enforcing rules laid out by both WN and the FAA. If you can't comply without fuss then I suggest you not fly.

As for the market and how I am paid, I am paid VERY VERY well by WN for what I do for...have I complained?

I LUV my job, I really do. I work my A$$ off every single day b/c I recognize the importance of job security and how important it is to give the best service possible when the flight attendant is the only amenity onboard.

Don't assume we're all mindless drips. While my primary job is as a FA I also work in Pharmaceuticals and am currently studying for my PharmD. This job provides great benefits and a flexible work-life. But clearly since you know me so well you must know that I am a complete moron, horrid at my job and no NOTHING about customer service....okay????
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:22 am

My two cents worth here:

The crew member(s) in question went above and beyond what they should have. Cell phones in airplane mode are permissible. The flight attendants should have known that. Very simple. I see people with their cell phones on all the time, I always ask about airplane mode, those who know, simply state that and I say thank you and move on. The ones who "huh? airplane mode?" in return, I know they have no clue and ask them politely to turn them off. End of story. Very simple.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
So if the FA ordered you to strip naked and suck off the guy sitting next to you, you would do it?



Quoting Pope (Reply 17):
I'll ask all you this question - If a FA told you to slap the person in the seat next to you, is that an order that should be obeyed?

You're kidding, right? How asinine to even think that these are valid.

For the record, we, as cabin crew, have to follow rules and regulations set forth by the FAA and the company for whom we work. The rules in place are there for a reason (none of which are yours and mine to decide why). They may seem appropriate, asinine, stupid, worthwhile, whatever. They are there. Like it or not.

Does anyone here realise that if we do not follow FAR rules and someone for the FAA is onboard and sees that, we can be fined personally, fined by the company, the company be fined and also risk discipline, up to and, including termination? Most probably do not. Nor even thought about that side (what is seen is "why are bothering me? and why should I?). You, as the customer, will never know they are onboard and never know the outcome if that happens, either.

Should a fine be incurred or termination happen, are you going to pay it or support me because you didn't or wouldn't comply? Hardly.

I know the rules and also know how to approach a situation. A beef of mine (it happens very infrequently) is when customers fight back. Trust me, I do not make the rules, nor do I set out to make your life miserable. I always ask stop _______ (whatever shouldn't be going on) politely and expect you to comply (these are for FARs and not slapping people or making someone strip  Yeah sure). That is not asking too much at all.

There is a way to approach someone when they are seen doing something they are not supposed to do (whether they know it or not). Using tact will get you through every situation. There are ways of getting your point across and there are ways of getting your point across.

Personally, I ask people to stop. If they continue, I explain (I shouldn't have to, but I do). I don't walk away and expect you to decipher what it is I am saying. Nor do I expect flack for doing my job.

I do not go to your place of employment and disregard rules set forth for your environment and see how far I can go and get away with before I get in trouble. I do not expect the same of you in mine. In return, I also treat you with dignity and respect from the word go and expect that back, too.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 40):
Thus the F/A should have seen this rule, said "I'm sorry for my mistake" and moved along.

We have a winner!!!
You can't cure stupid
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:05 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 131):
Whether or not something seems logical, or absurd, or outdated, or ridiculous....if it's an FAR or Company Policy and someone is asking you to comply there's really no reason not to. You're not proving anything to anyone except for that you crave attention and authority. When you're on my plane you have no more authority than the little old lady in seat 1A. You might move a little quicker than she does but you BOTH have to be seated for any movement on the surface, you BOTH have to have ALL portable electronic devices turned off below 10K ft and you BOTH have to wait at your seat before using the FWD lav when flying on WN. That's not me on a power trip, that's me doing my job and enforcing rules laid out by both WN and the FAA. If you can't comply without fuss then I suggest you not fly.

I've advocated nothing less. All I've suggested is that the absurd notion that YOU (and others) have laid out on this thread that YOU MUST ALWAYS comply with EVERYTHING the FA says NO QUESTIONS ASK is as absurd as NOT complying with a legitimate crew member instruction.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:56 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:38 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 126):
The crew member(s) in question went above and beyond what they should have. Cell phones in airplane mode are permissible. The flight attendants should have known that. Very simple. I see people with their cell phones on all the time, I always ask about airplane mode, those who know, simply state that and I say thank you and move on.

Why can't people read the thread? Please see reply 60

ATA's CoC states that cellphones, even those equipped with airplane mode, are to be off at all times!
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 134):
ATA's CoC states that cellphones, even those equipped with airplane mode, are to be off at all times!

My bad. CO allows cell phones in airplane mode.

Come fly with us.... Big grin
You can't cure stupid
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:43 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 134):
ATA's CoC states that cellphones, even those equipped with airplane mode, are to be off at all times!

All the old CoC standby. A legal agreement that is completely one sided, usually not readily available for review, and regularly ignored by 95% of airline employees with front line customer service duties.

What other legal agreement allows for unilateral breach by one party with the payment of no damages beyond the refund of the purchase price. I love it.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:56 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 136):

All the old CoC standby. A legal agreement that is completely one sided, usually not readily available for review, and regularly ignored by 95% of airline employees with front line customer service duties.

Don't like it? Don't fly on the airlines, it's at simple as that. You agree by it every time you step on the aircraft.

However, since ATA doesn't approve of cellphones, it is also federal law
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:01 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 137):
Don't like it? Don't fly on the airlines, it's at simple as that. You agree by it every time you step on the aircraft.

Gee, I wonder why airlines constantly have to file for bankruptcy?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 137):
it is also federal law

To use them as a phone. You can use it (on some airlines) in airplane mode. Cell phones have many functions other than verbal communication.
You can't cure stupid
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:56 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:18 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 138):

Gee, I wonder why airlines constantly have to file for bankruptcy?

Because of their Contract of Carriage?  Yeah sure

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 139):
To use them as a phone. You can use it (on some airlines) in airplane mode. Cell phones have many functions other than verbal communication.

Well if the carrier says it is not allowed, then according to the FAR's it is federal law. ATA's no cellphone use period is federal law.
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:23 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 140):
then according to the FAR's it is federal law. ATA's no cellphone use period is federal law.

Cell phone usage as a phone in flight is the FAR/federal law. ATA's ban of cell phone for use other than a phone (iPhone usage/mp3 player) is company policy. That is the difference.
You can't cure stupid
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:56 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:27 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 141):

Cell phone usage as a phone in flight is the FAR/federal law. ATA's ban of cell phone for use other than a phone (iPhone usage/mp3 player) is company policy. That is the difference.

I hate to burst your bubble, but take a look at 14 CFR 91.21(c)
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:59 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 142):
I hate to burst your bubble, but take a look at 14 CFR 91.21(c)

No bubble to burst. It is FAR that devices like cell phones (cell phones in regular, normal, non-airplane mode) is not. Cell phones that are in airplane mode (that do not transmit) are. It is up to the individual carrier. That is why some airlines allow it, like CO, AA, etc..

It is company policy, because it is above and over what the FAA/FAR allows, airlines like TZ, do not allow cell phone usage, again in airplane (non-transmitting) mode. Hence, TZ company policy. The caveat being up to the airline.

(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.

The FAR allows the airline to make that distinction. The company policy. It can go either way. The FAA gives the company final word. Their policy.
You can't cure stupid
 
silentbob
Posts: 1591
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:23 pm

And not following company policies is a violation of the FARs. Rather than debate semantics, can we all just agree that the FA was correct in telling the guy to shut it off and stow it?
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 144):
And not following company policies is a violation of the FARs.

I see that point, too.

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 144):
can we all just agree that the FA was correct in telling the guy to shut it off and stow it?

Was correct, yes, but went overboard.
You can't cure stupid
 
silentbob
Posts: 1591
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:51 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 145):
Was correct, yes, but went overboard.

I never said she handled it well.
 
ORDagent
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:24 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:59 pm

Quoting SABE (Reply 8):
what's a guy with enough money to buy an iPhone doing on a TZ plane

They blew all the cash on the very expensive phone!  Smile

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
Well, if you were silly enough to buy an iPhone then you deserve the flack - they suck

Beg to differ! I love mine with very few quibbles!

When I flew WN about 18 months ago the FA announcement stated that WN does NOT recognize electronics in "flight mode". The last time I flew them though that verbiage was dropped. On the last flight I took I kept my headphones on in order to be 100% certain I didn't forget my very expensive gadget on board. The FA stopped and asked me if it was turned off. I showed her the blank screen on my iPhone. Obviously I could have lied as the iPhone screen can be blanked out when it is still on.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:18 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 140):

No genius. It's because of attitudes like what you expressed. I guess the sarcasm was above you. (You should now feel pretty stupid putting on the eye roll smiley on your last post).

To be honest, I hadn't checked your profile until this last post, but see that you are an "aviation management student" just underscores my point perfectly.

With an attitude like yours, you'll defintely fit in with other of the elite aviation managers that have led this once great industry through the past twenty years!
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: ATA-Arrested For Using IPhone In "Airplane Mode?"

Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:18 pm

Quoting Silentbob (Reply 146):
I never said she handled it well.

I know you didn't. It's all good. I added that, as my opinion.
You can't cure stupid

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos