Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:25 pm

Ok so Conway is gone what is going to happen next.


  • What are they going to do about LHR??
  • What about the 757 and A319s??
  • How long are they going to take to come up with a new plan and find a new CEO.


Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 94):

It has been a YEAR a whole year and you have failed to come up with a name and resume' of all of these "West Indian natives" that are capable of running an airline!!! As A388 said give it a rest. I am so disappointed after all given the fact that you have years in the industry and a number of us are students who see aviation as hobby I was expecting you to make excellent contributions.  yawn   sarcastic 

AC is expecting to have a bumper season to BGI, yes the strong Canadian dollars is helping the Canadian market to BGI.

Regards
BWIA 772  angel 
Eagles Soar!
 
User avatar
hummingbird
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:21 pm

Welcome aboard Speedbird.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 100):
Ok so Conway is gone what is going to happen next.


What are they going to do about LHR??

What about the 757 and A319s??

How long are they going to take to come up with a new plan and find a new CEO.

http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/2212/26/.


These topics were discussed at the meeting held today. Mr Conway was not invited. He was praised for the work he has done for the company.

Different vision based on what the PNP wanted and what the JLP wants. JLP is upset over the sale of LHR route, acquisition of 757 and proposed Latin American expansion. They prefer a European expansion due to the number of European hotels investing in Jamaica. JLP wants an international partner who will thrust the airline to the next level.

Top heavy management will be downsized. All new appointments will be reviewed. Shirley Williams to act in capacity of C.E.O.

Union delegates are concerned that the JM Board has no aviation experience. Hopefully one pilot will be assigned on the board along with two staff members. Union willing to work with Shirley Williams.

Mr Conway was not given the opportunity to show the efficiency of operating the B757 and A319. Based on his studies it was the best aircraft that would compliment the route structure. One B757 is currently in ATL. Due to expenses incurred with training and acquisition, suggestions were made for it to be used on GND, YYZ and JFK route. No mention was made of the A340.

We all hope for the best.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
speedbird2263
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 97):
Would Jamaica be willing to get rid of KIN and make Vernamfield KIN airport and JM hub?
The only possible scenario I see for that happening is that Vernamfield is to get wonderful road links with all of Jamaica (3 hours or less between Port Antonio or Negril and Vernamfield?!) so it's attractive for the leisure market and that foreign airlines are kept in MBJ if Jamaica doesn't want to also replace MBJ with Vernamfield.
Bear in mind that both KIN and MBJ are located in premium land for Tourism, prime-housing or Seaport-related developments.

I would certainly love more than anything else to have a fresh new airport built from scratch to World Class standards, however with the money that's being spent on KIN I doubt that Vernamfield will be developed to that Level anytime soon. The transportation infrastructure that you've mentioned has certainly already been 'pre-planned' to an extent and is being implemented as we speak, you can have a look see at what I'm talking about here . Vernamfield may very well have its beginnings as a maintenance base for JM and possibly other carriers in the region to attract much needed investments. Although KIN is landlocked (*unless a Kansai model is implemented  Wink ) it will be some time before we can say that Vernamfield will become a true replacement for KIN.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 97):
BTW Welcome to a-net Speedbird

Pleasure Mate  wave 
Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 97):
Would Jamaica be willing to get rid of KIN and make Vernamfield KIN airport and JM hub?

Vernamfield would only serve as a maintenance base for JM and other foreign carriers that choose to use it. No doubt the odd flight would start going into Vernamfield and I strongly doubt the "town" people would see NM closed to be replaced by Vernamfield. MBJ is really untouchable, its kinda like one of those airports that you know, no matter what, the business would never be shifted from it. Its in a strategic location and plus had a heck of amount of work put into it. But look for Vernamfield in the future. This administration seems to be serious in what they doing and I can appreciate it.

On the other hand, Conway was obviously to those who did not know,yes was brought in to expand the airline , but also to maintain the feeding tree for the leeches aligned to the previous govt. It kinda came with the job, he became chums with many in the old govt.
I know some of you on my rhetoric might say I hate the previous admin, I wouldn't say hate, its just that they were so bare faced and nonchalant with their corruption and brought so much shame to the average Jamaican it was sickening. Just an indicator of how happy people are that they gone? The flights from NAS-MBJ/KGN for part of the second and entire third week of Dec. has already been sold out. Also I understand the same is being seen on FLL, JFK and lately LAX.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
beeweel15
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 95):
Can't you give it a rest?

A388



Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 100):
I am so disappointed after all given the fact that you have years in the industry and a number of us are students who see aviation as hobby I was expecting you to make excellent contributions. yawn sarcastic

Well I don't do aviation as a hobby. I live it every day and I see things you all don't see. Why don't you all say to the Jamaican folks here that they are not capable of running JM or there is not one Jamaican capable of doing the the job.

Like I said Mr. Lok Jack the chairman of BW and Ms. Diana Mahabiar spoke about brain drain going on in Trinidad and the Caribbean yet still they reject local folks who have the ability to do the job. Like I pointed out a while back although not in aviation but the medical field they brought in foreign doctors to help with the shortage but told a group of local doctors that they can be paid or given some of the benefits the foreign doctors got. Things like that lead to brain drain. Here at JFK Airport the lower the job yes you will find more minorities, but as the job title goes up you see more whites and one or two token minorities just to say look we hired a minority. Did you know that El AL prohibits handling companies from hiring jewish people to do the dirty work like working the bagroom , loading and cleaning their planes.

With your comment, 772, on naming people that can do the job I don't know who they are or where they are but they are out there and I dear you to say that there is absolutely no Jamaican or Trinidadian or West Indian out there that can run an airline. The people that I do know that applied for jobs, not aviation, back home never heard back or were told they were over qualified for the position. Now why bother applying if that is what you get all the time and these people I am taking about are very qualified. Also as I have said many folks who do step to the plate to do a good job are shot down or forced out by the people around them. From experience here at JFK when you do a good job the first thing that comes out of peoples mouth is "oh you thinking white" and they give a hard time doing the task assigned but if the white DM comes along and gives the same orders it is like "yes sir" and the task get done. And that is the problem I am having and seeing and your comments only confirms that way of thinking.
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 104):
Well I don't do aviation as a hobby. I live it every day and I see things you all don't see. Why don't you all say to the Jamaican folks here that they are not capable of running JM or there is not one Jamaican capable of doing the the job.

It's not that we don't see it, it's you who keeps living in a world of Caribbean people not being able of running an airline. I also work in the aviation industry so I also know what I'm talking about. It's not only the "Caribbean people" who have this "problem" of not running an airline. There are major Arabian airlines who also have foreigners as CEO's, some major Asian airlines like CX also have foreign CEO's. Does this mean that the country itself doesn't have capable people to run their own airline? Tell me, explain all these examples for me....

A388

[Edited 2007-10-20 03:17:45]

[Edited 2007-10-20 03:18:42]
 
aa1818
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 104):
but told a group of local doctors that they can be paid or given some of the benefits the foreign doctors got.

Don't even go there- that is a whole different issue and you don't live in Trinidad to begin to know the behind the scenes. So stay away from things you know nothing about!

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 104):
I dear you to say that there is absolutely no Jamaican or Trinidadian or West Indian out there that can run an airline.

I say that there isn't a single West Indian who is capacble ot running a beleagured airline like BW and JM, turn them around and make them profitable. There is no one with sufficient political independence, with enough upper-level experienc in aviation and there is no one with enough aviation managerial knowledge that can turn BW or JM around.

I challenge you to disprove my statements and provide me with someone who can. I've called your bluff now let me see you put some facts into those hot-air circular argued statements that you so often make.

I am a West Indian, born and bred, I love Trinidad and Tobago and I love Trinis (Trini women- oooh yes!). The West Indies has produced many top performers in all fields, from medicine, engineering, sports, law, politicians (no not Manning and Panday), diplomats, human rights activists and much more. We are a hard working driven 'people', but we know when to admit that there is a gap. And there is a gap in aviation. There is no one at this moment, who can run the airline, largely due to the fact that aviation is such a small and specialist industry in Trinidad. However, I am sure that many one here in years to come will reverse the trend. I am sure today on this forum there are far more West Indians than there were when the site started. Aviation is on the way up and we'll be well placed to take advantage when the time comes. For now though, we need someone to turn BW and JM around and the Board of each airline will likely have to find someone from away.

It would be very interesting for JM to appoint a local. We could then compare the relative successes of BW and JM on many levels, although not an entirely fair comparison give the fundamental differences in each country which affect the airline's successes.

Apologies for the rant, but I just had to get it out- again- and explain myself properly. Bweel15 I hope you can understand and not be nationalistic for the sake of nationalism. Be nationalistic but acknowledge that we're not perfect!

Best wishes,
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10638
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:57 am

Think I'll pitch in on this West Indian ability to run an airline, will try not to rant but to pose some questions.
For starters, I was born in the Bahamas, but grew up in Trinidad, Jamaica and Belize - back when they were British Honduras - and have worked for UP years ago.

1. How many West Indians believe that we should still be colonies, that we are incapable of good government?

That for me is at the heart of the "management" question, and the basis of the troubles we face in the Caribbean aviation industry. Do the people believe that we need our own airlines, do our politicians believe that? Settle this question first and other things will start to fall into place. Regardless of who the foreigner is, and we have had a few through out the Caribbean, they all answer to the govt. who takes, ignores or just rejects their advise and expertise, no foreign head of any local airline will or can be a dictator, so who exactly is making the bad decisions that cause our airlines to fail?

I'll give JM credit for being the only local carrier who has made a decent enough effort to serve the other Caribbean countries, let me add that I am talking about service to the US per say, yes in the EC islands Liat and Bwia used to serve the smaller islands. Mentioned in this thread is JM starting service to Grenada, my folks are making that trip in December, but via AA through Mia, probably would have tried the JM option if it existed when we first booked. How much govt. support does JM get for service like this, we know that AA used to be given "incentives" actually, AA used to demand such for their service, and their was no guarantee that service would stay.

We were raised and ruled under the divide and conquer mentality, and whether we like it or not, that still exist in various forms, there is a lot of travel between our countries and the US, etc., how much travel is there between our
countries, until that picks up, we will always be looking at a single market for travel which cannot be offset by local traffic, so the people have to be involved to some degree either to make up the difference - subsidy - or to accept limited service to one or two foreign ports. Trade between our countries is growing, and as that continues, more markets will be open for travel, hopefully, our politicians will do a better job of getting the people onboard.
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting Par13del (Reply 107):
How much govt. support does JM get for service like this,

Excellent point. Not because its JM, but very very important point.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 107):
We were raised and ruled under the divide and conquer mentality, and whether we like it or not, that still exist in various forms,

Woah, another good point!! Brother man you on a roll  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Par13del (Reply 107):
How many West Indians believe that we should still be colonies, that we are incapable of good government?

Excellent question, you sir have been given a 10/10 in my class well done.  checkmark 

Now to add my spice:
Let us accuse no one of being nationalistic without first accusing ourselves. Sometimes (all included, no exceptions..none ...myself too) we write and call it a rant or label it as whatever we choose to call it. But a spade is a spade, we can't accuse without preparing to be accused ourselves. There is one thing I hate about our regional people, we always are quick to try insult or put down each other with many petty or downright stupid issues and arguments. We will hug and love the foreigner (from outside the region) more than our brother. Its the truth, gotta stop, but its the truth.  stirthepot 
Now the responses should be good to hear.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:52 pm

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 104):
Well I don't do aviation as a hobby. I live it every day and I see things you all don't see.

Yes that is my main point you came on this forum and one of the first things you asked when members disagreed with you is that to go look at our profiles and upon realizing that some of us are students for whom aviation is hobby, meant that we some how did not know what you are talking about!!! What is even more amazing is that with you living aviation every day your arguments still are very weak and are seriously flawed for the most part.

Also I think you have to look at the lack in the entire context of region. For a region in which the vast majority of people were only able to get access to education in the last century we have done great. However we have excelled in the traditional fields of study. Aviation is a young field in a couple years we will see more West Indians coming up in the field but for now and in the medium term we are going to have lack of local expertise.

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 104):
Also as I have said many folks who do step to the plate to do a good job are shot down or forced out by the people around them. From experience here at JFK when you do a good job the first thing that comes out of peoples mouth is "oh you thinking white" and they give a hard time doing the task assigned but if the white DM comes along and gives the same orders it is like "yes sir" and the task get done. And that is the problem I am having and seeing and your comments only confirms that way of thinking.

JFK is not the Caribbean. No one in the region is going to look at you doing your job and tell you that you are thinking "white". The reason for this is that most managers in the region are not white. I think I can speak for everyone here when I say support for foreign management is not because they are white but because they have the ability and necessary expertise to run our airlines effectively!!! Finally in the words of the great Bob Marley Emancipate yourself from mental slavery

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 106):
The West Indies has produced many top performers in all fields, from medicine, engineering, sports, law, politicians (no not Manning and Panday), diplomats, human rights activists and much more.

Panday not one of the stars, Manning however has hope. Once CAL is successful anyone who does a history of Caribbean Aviation will credit him and his government with being the 1st at bucking the trend and allowing a state run carrier to operate as a business free from political interference. In addition a decisive victory come November 5th will most likely see POS being ruled by 1 political party for 2 full terms something that we have not scene since PNM first lost an election in 1986. Finally when you have a lot of money the potential for making bad decisions is greater, however if POS continues on its current path he will be credited with being instrumental in turning POS into a super power.

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:54 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 109):
Regards
BWIA 772

Very well said BWIA 772. I have nothing to add to your story as it summarizes everything very well! I also have worked at Schiphol Airport for 5 years as a part time employee as well as a full time job. I now work in the aviation industry here in CUR again since 2 months ago and the aviation is how you and everybody else here says. Aviation management is best run by foreigners who have much more experience in the aviation industry because ou aviation industry is just too small to have the necessary experience to run an airline or airport efficiently. This, like you said, has nothing to do with being "white" or not. People who say that just have a personal problem of their own, I'm sorry to say it this way. Beewee15 is just looking for such answers somehow. Like I also said there are many major airlines who have or have had foreigners as CEO's and/or in higher level mangement. Gulf Air, British Airways, Cathay Pacific Airways come to mind but does this mean that their local people are not good to run these airlines? NO! Airlines pay these CEO's because of their worldwide experience and their ability for running major companies. If you are offered such a position at a any airline I am sure you're not going to say: "No, I'll pass because I'm not a national citizen of that airline's country" or "No, I will not do it because I'm a foreigner to that airline or country". Think about it!!

A388
 
beeweel15
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:02 pm

BW772 , A388 ,

Read the posts by Par31del and Mbj-11 and maybe you will learn something. And yes I do know that JFK is not the Caribbean however I did live and work in Trinidad before I came to the USA and like what I saw at home and experienced here what I say is true. Do you realize that the majority of people I work around are west indian here at JFK.

772 about your model collection once again it is great and I did check ebay like you mentioned in one of your posts so I will be adding to my collection. I got A MD11 , MD80 and L1011-500 models I will up load a pic shortly.
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:01 pm

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 111):
BW772 , A388 ,

Answer my question I asked twice about all the other major airlines who have foreigners as CEO's before talking about "What I've seen!!!" You seem to live in your own narrow minded world and everybody knows it!!!!

Like everybody here has said numerous times, get over it, please!!

A388

[Edited 2007-10-20 16:32:29]
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 111):
BW772 , A388 ,

Read the posts by Par31del and Mbj-11 and maybe you will learn something. And yes I do know that JFK is not the Caribbean however I did live and work in Trinidad before I came to the USA and like what I saw at home and experienced here what I say is true. Do you realize that the majority of people I work around are west indian here at JFK.

You know I realize that you and me come from different world. I guess at has to do with what I have experienced. Anyways it is clear that as far as you know most west indians are in a rat race and will remain there. So while the masses remain refusing to Emancipate themselves from mental slavery, people like me are who have emancipated themselves will just continue to aspire to achieve greatness in new fields and guess what Aviation will be one them.

A388 I know what you mean, thankfully local people will learn from these foreign experts and eventually we will have local experts but as you and I know it takes time.

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
bw415
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:25 am

Someone has managed to upload a pic of 9Y-WIT.. its not a full shot.. just the tail... I must say that I quite like the entire hummingbird on the tail even though its a bit smaller.... check out the link below.. hopefully a full aircraft image will become available soon!

http://caribbeanalpa.com/phpBB2/down...d=c7ff19356058cefca60a82971b5ad067

bw415
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
bw415
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:02 am

For all the BWIA fans out there.. just thought that I would share this 1989 commercial that I came across on youtube.. tear jerker :P... really

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dJAYUIdYjNU
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 114):
Someone has managed to upload a pic of 9Y-WIT.. its not a full shot.. just the tail... I must say that I quite like the entire hummingbird on the tail even though its a bit smaller.... check out the link below

Nice Bw415!!! I hope Caribbean Airlines will fly to CUR so I can get a nice photo of this very nice and colorful hummingbird Dash-8. I also wouldn't mind seeing the Caribbean Airlines' 737-800 here too...  Smile

A388
 
aa1818
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 114):

Cheers 415! If the 'Caribbean Airlines' Titles are that small, what is painted on the front of the fuselage??? It's either going to look V.V.V.V.V.V.V boring on the front, or if they find something to put- it could be quite refreshing. I'm dissappointed that they continued the huming bird trend though- something else would have been great, and they could have used the humming bird for branding in a less prominent place nearer the fton or something. Anyways, hope they continue this upward trend. So far accoding to well placed sources- the performance is "exactly according to plan". No profits this year or anything as expected, but definitely bleeding less money and on target to achieve some real savings in the coming years! Good news for any airline!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:20 am

For those interested in the future of the Norman Manley Intl. airport in KGN in relation to Vernamfield's resurgence here is the info you need straight from the Minister of Transport himself, through the information service and I quote:

" Minister of Transport and Works, Mike Henry, has said that the planned Vernamfield Airport in Clarendon will not replace the Norman Manley International Airport in Kingston.
....Minister Henry explained that Vernamfield will be the new location of the Jamaica Defence Force Air Wing, as well as a major air cargo transport, aircraft repair and maintenance facility.
As Vernamfield comes on stream to handle major air cargo shipments with the railroad connecting into the facility, it will complement Norman Manley International Airport, which will facilitate greater movement of smaller cargo and passengers,"

He said that a new board is to be put in place soon to manage the Norman Manley Airport, while the need to extend the runway another 300 meters is being addressed, noting that "the Government has no change in the approach to privatise Norman Manley Airport like the Sangster Airport in Montego Bay".
Commenting on the perennial problem of flooding and coastal erosion along the Palisadoes Road leading to Norman Manley, which gave rise to speculations about the relocation of the airport, Minister Henry said that "a study had been done by experts from Cuba to determine the best approach for rehabilitating and securing the Palisadoes strip and implementing the results of that study remains on the front burner of Government's plans".

We want to fast-track the protection of the Palisadoes strip and bring airport investment partners on board as the city of Kingston cannot be seen with Norman Manley International Airport," said the minister.

In the meantime, Minister Henry said Sangster International is in the final phase of expansion "and is already reporting good success".

Whew.......darn long quote.

 Big grin
Anyway, KGN as I said before, ain't going nowhere, too many "town" people would riot. Plus it has the name of the founder of the (yuck) opposition founder Norman Manley (although he wasn't as bad just his successors.)
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
caribbean484
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 115):
For all the BWIA fans out there.. just thought that I would share this 1989 commercial that I came across on youtube.. tear jerker :P... really

Man those were the days. The days of the greatest aircraft to fly the caribbean skies, the L1011-500 aka Sunjets.
All ah we is one family
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 118):
KGN

Hi Mbj-11 I can't resist saying this anymore, Kingston has IATA-code KIN and not KGN.

Best regards,

A388  Smile
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 120):
Mbj-11 I can't resist saying this anymore, Kingston has IATA-code KIN and not KGN.

 Big grin Reason I use it is............. that was and sometimes is the tag on your bag to go KIN/KGN and also , a so "yaaad man" talk (so to speak). Cool, I'll adjust. lol
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 119):
Man those were the days. The days of the greatest aircraft to fly the caribbean skies, the L1011-500 aka Sunjets.

Wah L1011 wah, yuh doh see dem MD dem..

Well i will go as far to say that BWIA had a very hot combination between the MDs and the L1011...
Look Up
 
User avatar
hummingbird
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:30 am

Re BWIA's MDs, were they weight restricted on flights to JFK and YYZ?
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
caribbean484
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 123):
Re BWIA's MDs, were they weight restricted on flights to JFK and YYZ?

Yes they were. To get into the eastern US they had to fly primarily to the northern Caribbean(more so ANU), since NYC is approximately 2200nm and the MD 80s had a range of 2500nm.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 122):
Wah L1011 wah, yuh doh see dem MD dem

Well my friend you see there was no trip like one on the Tristars.  Big grin
All ah we is one family
 
User avatar
hummingbird
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:13 am

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 124):
Yes they were. To get into the eastern US they had to fly primarily to the northern Caribbean(more so ANU), since NYC is approximately 2200nm and the MD 80s had a range of 2500nm

Thanks. For JM they were primarily used to ORD. Whenever there was a max weight takeoff, the airport was notified and the Fire Station placed on standby.
In winter with the strong headwinds, the flight would divert to MIA for fuel.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
aa1818
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:56 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 123):
Re BWIA's MDs, were they weight restricted on flights to JFK and YYZ?



Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 124):
Yes they were. To get into the eastern US they had to fly primarily to the northern Caribbean(more so ANU), since NYC is approximately 2200nm and the MD 80s had a range of 2500nm.

Perhaps someone can correct me but weren't the L10-11s primarily used on YYZ and JFK? I remember going to pick up my Aunt from the Airport, sitting in the old VIP room which gave a fantastic view of the L10-11s when they came in, and when one plane Tri-star came in i'd get excited, and the airport ground staff would tell me no- that's the flight from New York, and a second one would come in and it would be from Toronto, and finally the third one which was parked somewhere else. Those were the days!

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 118):

Its good to see that the new Gov't has placed 'development' on the front burner. Hopefully they can undo many of the ills that plague Jamaica today and speed up many development projects that have been shelved!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 126):
Perhaps someone can correct me but weren't the L10-11s primarily used on YYZ and JFK?

The L1011's were even regulatly used to CUR! Every sunday we received BWIA L1011 flights here in CUR.

A388
 
aa1818
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:15 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 127):
The L1011's were even regulatly used to CUR! Every sunday we received BWIA L1011 flights here in CUR.

Well if CALx flies to CUR, those Dash8's will be a significant reduction of 'metal' as compared with the L10-11s!!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 128):
Well if CALx flies to CUR, those Dash8's will be a significant reduction of 'metal' as compared with the L10-11s!!!

AA1818

Haha, you are right but BWIA had a bad fleet management at the time they used the L1011 to CUR in my opinion. That aircraft was way to big for the route. I also remember seeing the L1011 in MIA every now and than (based on photos I've seen).

The Dash-8 to CUR will do fine I think or a mix of B738s and Dash-8s will do fine too. In any case I want them to fly to CUR!!!!!

A388 Big grin
 
TransIsland
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:22 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting Par13del (Reply 107):
How many West Indians believe that we should still be colonies, that we are incapable of good government?

I'm not sure this is a wise debate to enter, though I could produce some flamebait here (and NO, I am neither from Abaco nor from Spanish Wells.... Wink) However, if we assume that we are capable of good government of an airline, i. e. management, then why are we hiding it so darn well?

- Bahamian aviation industry continues to be hurt by hackers,
- Hackers have customers, because legal operators don't deliver.

Example: I flew UP NAS-RSD-NAS yesterday. Leaving Nassau, come boarding time, there was no plane in sight. Upon asking the lady at the counter when our plane would come, her response was, "I don't know."

When a plane pulled up, and I asked her whether this was ours (the LGI and FPO flights were waiting on their planes, too), she still didn't know. I am glad the pilot knew where his next stop was going to be...

On our way back, there was a delay of 1.5 hrs, because the inbound flight was late. No announcement was made, in fact the UP staff at RSD left the building and disappeared until their plane came, so nobody could as them any questions.

I can forgive an airline for delays, but the incompetence displayed by the staff is frightening!
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:17 pm

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 124):
Yes they were. To get into the eastern US they had to fly primarily to the northern Caribbean(more so ANU), since NYC is approximately 2200nm and the MD 80s had a range of 2500nm

I didn't quite understand that statement. BW operated the MDs on POS/JFK, POS/YYZ (on rare ocasions), definitely on BGI/JFK, before on GND/JFK, UVF/JFK y ANU/JFK. All the flights to JFK departing an airport south of ANU was weight restricted?
Look Up
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:31 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 114):

What a sucky livery  vomit 
Eagles Soar!
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:48 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 132):
What a sucky livery

Don't you like the Caribbean Airlines livery? The livery on that Dash-8 is the exact same livery as on the B738. I find the livery very nice.

A388
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 133):

Do not get me wrong I like the CAL livery however the livery on the Dash 8 is a variation of the CAL livery which I do not like.



I like the CAL livery because the white is broken up by the Caribbean Airline titles, and I like the placement of the humming bird. However on the Dash 8 you have the whole humming bird and the titles on the rear of the fuselage. I assume that this was done because of the high wing of the Dash 8. I think that they could have put the humming bird similar to how it is on the 738 and smaller titles on the front.

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 134):
and I like the placement of the humming bird. However on the Dash 8 you have the whole humming bird and the titles on the rear of the fuselage. I assume that this was done because of the high wing of the Dash 8. I think that they could have put the humming bird similar to how it is on the 738 and smaller titles on the front.

Oww okay. You almost gave me a nervous breakdown!!! Big grin

A388
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:22 pm

Ok guys tell me what you think about this development see the following link.

A388

Yeah I was wondering why you asked the question but I quickly realized what you meant. For simplicity and cost effectiveness I understand why CALX is being branded the way that it is. However if the rest of the Dash 8 is white the whole livery will just look cheap.
Eagles Soar!
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:43 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 136):
Ok guys tell me what you think about this development see the following link.

Interesting link BWIA 772 but as the trend is slowly moving towards privatizing airlines in our region I don't know how much effect the governments will have on these newly privatized Caribbean airlines when they want to regulate and stimulate the air travel within our region according to their views. The privatized Caribbean airlines are not obliged to do anything, if they still think that a route is just not profitable they will not start the links between the islands even if the members of the CARICOM think otherwise. The same goes for government owned airline who are becoming more cost conscious. If a certain link between islands is recommended by the CARICOM but the airline itself doesn't see it the same way, will they go for it?

I think it is a nice idea of stimulating the air links between the islands but these air links should be realized or stimulated because the market demands it and not because the island governments want or see the link as being 'important' without the research done to prove that the Caribbean market really needs such a route. Like the article says, it needs to be a functional co-operation between the airlines and the governments concerned. But as I already said, the idea sounds good to me!!

A388  Smile
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10638
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:02 pm

TransIsland my reply to your post 130 is along the same lines. If we have a "airline expert" foreign or domestic in charge of the airline, could they fire these employees for incompetence, especially if they are political appointees?
Back to square one, if we are not mature enough politically, we won't improve, in most instances in our aviation industry throughtout the Caribbean, politics is our main problem, and our political systems cater to it. The MP is responsible for the constituency, so if he is given charge of the Airline - UP etc. - he is obligated by our Westminister System to cater to his people, how literal do they take that mandate, bearing in mind that the country did not elect them, technically.

We need professional people running "business ministries" if politics are required they should be directives or mandates, example, if service must be provided to smaller dstinations etc. Once we can divorce our " Govt. Business's" say Batelco, BEC and UP from politicians we can have them run in a professional manner, and no I am not really a supporter of privitization, do you know of anyone in their right mind who sells a money making business?
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:47 am

CTAC Announcement

Ok guys after quite a slump it seems we are back on track. Right now the thread is number 6 in the most discussed topics!!! Good work guys.  praise 

Speedbird2263 welcome, if you are on facebook I am on there and we do also do a little chatting on MSN as well.

Anyways in an effort to full up this particular post I found to interesting articles about JM,


Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
User avatar
hummingbird
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:46 am

The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
beeweel15
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 126):
Perhaps someone can correct me but weren't the L10-11s primarily used on YYZ and JFK?

Yes they were. Mainly to JFK, YYZ and LHR and occasionally to MIA.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 126):
I remember going to pick up my Aunt from the Airport, sitting in the old VIP room which gave a fantastic view of the L10-11s when they came in, and when one plane Tri-star came in i'd get excited, and the airport ground staff would tell me no- that's the flight from New York, and a second one would come in and it would be from Toronto, and finally the third one which was parked somewhere else. Those were the days!

I remember those days also going back to the days of the B707. It was fun I even remember once meeting Sir Ellis Clark, before he was President, one time when he was traveling out and my dad was traveling out. Man those were the days.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 131):
BW operated the MDs on POS/JFK, POS/YYZ (on rare ocasions), definitely on BGI/JFK, before on GND/JFK, UVF/JFK y ANU/JFK. All the flights to JFK departing an airport south of ANU was weight restricted?

The MD80 was constant on both routes. I do know that BW did operate some of the longest routes with the MD80 aircraft. From JFK they even did non-stops to POS and I did fly a few times on those non-stops. When it came to bags I remember they removed the last five to six rows and putting in large storage bins to load bags in the main cabin to ease the baggage situation. The bags that were left back were placed on the L10 that left about 30-60 minutes later.
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 141):
When it came to bags I remember they removed the last five to six rows and putting in large storage bins to load bags in the main cabin to ease the baggage situation.

Hi Beewee15, do you work for a baggage handling agent or do you load baggage yourself? The reason why I ask is: Is this normal practice to put baggage on the main passenger decks? I would imagine if the FAA would see such things that it might not be according to regulations. What do the FAA and/or ICAO regulations say about aircraft baggage and cargo loading?

Regards,

A388
 
aa1818
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:54 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 141):
once meeting Sir Ellis Clark,

...that's Clarke (with an 'E')!!!!

hehe
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 79):
Send it north... north-east. duck

What ever happened to UP looking into replacing their 1980-vintage 737s? Remember a few months back, they were going to look into it? What aircraft do you think have a chance at replacing those old gals?

BTW,I know it's not the best source, but Wiki is saying that Belair will start ZRH-NAS next year.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 107):

I'll give JM credit for being the only local carrier who has made a decent enough effort to serve the other Caribbean countries, let me add that I am talking about service to the US per say

True.

Not only that, I give them credit for having an expansive US network (whether it's tourist or VFR oriented is up for debate) and experimenting with non-Anglophone Caribbean destinations, for example (see former HAV-LHR, CUR and BON, etc).  checkmark 

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 130):
When a plane pulled up, and I asked her whether this was ours (the LGI and FPO flights were waiting on their planes, too), she still didn't know. I am glad the pilot knew where his next stop was going to be...

Sounds like what happened to me last year at LGI, except I was told "Bahamasair went on strike"

[Edited 2007-10-22 06:34:41]

[Edited 2007-10-22 06:35:33]
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
beeweel15
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 142):
Hi Beewee15, do you work for a baggage handling agent or do you load baggage yourself?

Yes I did work for the handling company that handled BW and yes I did load bags. This was back around the very early 90's when BW was at the BA Terminal 7.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 143):
...that's Clarke (with an 'E')!!!!

hehe
AA1818

Sorry I left out the "E".
 
speedbird2263
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 125):
Whenever there was a max weight takeoff, the airport was notified and the Fire Station placed on standby.

It's a wonder Ive never seen the ARFF out for the A340 at KIN Big grin . Twice Ive seen the Big girl slowly making her way out of 1000 for Flight Level overhead my house after an early left turn out from RWY12. Call them hair/blow-dryers if you will but thats unforgettable  Wink
Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son
 
trintocan
Posts: 2790
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:47 pm

About BW and the MD80s - yes, they were regularly used to the NE US and Canada, the first MD83 in BW's livery actually operated to BWI and BOS from POS and BGI in 1985. BW had also leased an MD82 then but satisfied with the greater flexibility of the MD83 decided to lease in more of the type in the late '80s and early '90s to replace DC-9s. The MD83s served JFK and YYZ frequently in the late '90s, particularly during the off-seasons. They were replaced in this capacity by the 737-800s and were ultimately left with MIA and KIN services.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
A388
Posts: 8054
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 145):
Yes I did work for the handling company that handled BW and yes I did load bags. This was back around the very early 90's when BW was at the BA Terminal 7.



Quoting A388 (Reply 142):
What do the FAA and/or ICAO regulations say about aircraft baggage and cargo loading?

Okay thanks. Can you elaborate on the FAA/ICAO regulations regarding aircraft loading per aircraft type? How strict is the FAA when it comes to properly (un)loading each aircraft type. I assume that an airline cannot just load an aircraft as they wish.....?

As you have worked or are working for a baggage handling company, how does the loading work?

Cheers.

A388
 
speedbird2263
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 140):

'No rush to find new Air J CEO'

Quote from the article :

Quote:
"We are covered because there are vice-presidents at each level heading up different departments and there is a chief financial controller and the entire finance department is under the supervision of the accountant general, who is Militant Hughes," the Air Jamaica chairman said. Hughes is also among the 12-member board recently appointed.

I really wonder if the mis-spelling of Millicent Hughes' name is representative of things to come or merely just a typo with no pun intended. Rather interesting read into the current happenings.

Here's another article also that mentions the push to partner with a suitable airline.

Quote from the article above:

Quote:
"After that it is a matter of finding a partner which we will be looking for in terms of one that can understand what it is we need to do, we don't just want some one who has money we are looking for some one who shares the commonalities that we do,"

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 65):
With this talk of looking to link with Emirates



Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 76):
So will I be proved right about Emirates too? Hmm, maybe, maybe not but that name is in the wind alot lately. I think it has to do with the fact that JM lost alot of senior and I mean senior pilots to Emirates and they would like to have an input in the running of the airline.

With the Dubai Airshow just around the corner one has to wonder if any "surprise" partnership announcements will be made. Wishful thinking if you will but not entirely far fetched

[Edited 2007-10-22 16:40:57]
Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos