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Inbound
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:37 pm

Hey BWIA 772, if things go as planned, you might be seeing Caribbean Airlines Dash8 at Adams on November 5th.
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caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting Inbound (Reply 150):
Hey BWIA 772, if things go as planned, you might be seeing Caribbean Airlines Dash8 at Adams on November 5th.

Inbound whats up man, nice to hear of CALx doing those routes, any more info on the airline?
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captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 145):
Yes I did work for the handling company that handled BW and yes I did load bags. This was back around the very early 90's when BW was at the BA Terminal 7.

Haha I remember those days. My memories of JFK in those days were saying many many TWA birds, and parking next to BA 747s.
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BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting Inbound (Reply 150):

Nice. So will BGI be the first destination served by CALX??


Regards
BWIA 772
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beeweel15
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 148):
As you have worked or are working for a baggage handling company, how does the loading work?

Well on the off load we offloaded the lower bellies first then went upstairs after the pax and crew left to take those bags off . It was quite unusual to see it being done we would open the rear galley door and position the belt loader and send the bags down. On the departure we loaded there first before the crew came on.

As for the FAA/ICAO rules I think there was some problems cause this was only done for several months before the aircraft were reconfigured to their original layout. I will ask one of the BW MX at JFK when next I am at work to find out what happened when it came to the rules.
 
beeweel15
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:16 pm

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 154):
As for the FAA/ICAO rules I think there was some problems cause this was only done for several months before the aircraft were reconfigured to their original layout. I will ask one of the BW MX at JFK when next I am at work to find out what happened when it came to the rules.

Well A388 I spoke to one of the MX last night, while waiting for the push back of 9Y-KIN i think it was not sure though, who was there at the time and he did tell that it was done with the approval of the FAA/ICAO. I think is was short lived because it displaced about 15 - 18 seats which is close to $10,000 per flight.
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 155):
Well A388 I spoke to one of the MX last night, while waiting for the push back of 9Y-KIN i think it was not sure though, who was there at the time and he did tell that it was done with the approval of the FAA/ICAO. I think is was short lived because it displaced about 15 - 18 seats which is close to $10,000 per flight.

Oww okay, so the FAA does check the aircraft loading every now and than or do they check ramdomly or do they check some airline more than others? The ICAO as far as I know doesn't do checks on this level, they mainly set the standards and don't necessarily see to it that airline obey them. The part of seeing to it that airlines comply is part of the (local) aviation authorities who might report to the ICAO.

A388
 
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:37 am

NEWS UPDATE

LIAT has finalized the buy out of Caribbean Star's assets please see the following link,


Ok guys with this we can reach the 200 post mark by Tuesday will you take up the challenge. Big grin
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hummingbird
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:19 am

The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
trintocan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:42 am

Ouch! We see that in one fell swoop VS has hit both JM and BW, both Jamaica and Trinidad with its slot purchase from JM! VS has thus moved BGI to LHR, taking advantage of the loss of BW's service from there. All at once it means that if BW would ever return to LHR there would be a strong, home-grown competitor from the UK on the run. BGI is after all a premium destination from the UK (unlike the other Caribbean islands) and VS is poised to make a mint on this route, especially with the key winter season fast approaching. VS is also reducing its services to KIN and, yes, moving them to LGW. It goes to show that VS is more concerned about the tourist market to the region rather than the VFR - the same reason that they were turned down when they bid for the BW slots because despite offering more money for them they did not want to serve POS.

If only there were more unity among the Caribbean carriers - it could be as simple as using common long-haul types and sharing a maintenance base, thus controlling costs and enabling a common fleet of say, A330s to serve LHR or LGW from POS, BGI and KIN, ORY or CDG from FDF and PTP and AMS from CUR.

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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 160):

OMG you have to be kidding me VS moving BGI to LGW wow!!!! I wonder what BA is going to do?? Since the demise of the original BW BGI was only going to see London service out of LHR during peak winter seasons and IIRC that would have been on the SAT LHR service with the B 747. Very interesting indeed!!!!
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jm017
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 161):
S is also reducing its services to KIN and, yes, moving them to LGW. It goes to show that VS is more concerned about the tourist market to the region rather than the VFR - the same reason that they were turned down when they bid for the BW slots because despite offering more money for them they did not want to serve POS.

As much as I really really hate VS at this point, the blame for this lies squarely with the old PNP administration. Can this deal really be reversed? VS seems to be going full speed ahead. "frowning at the sale of the slots" really isn't a definitive action to have the sale reversed.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:06 pm

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 161):
If only there were more unity among the Caribbean carriers - it could be as simple as using common long-haul types and sharing a maintenance base, thus controlling costs and enabling a common fleet of say, A330s to serve LHR or LGW from POS, BGI and KIN, ORY or CDG from FDF and PTP and AMS from CUR.

Unity among Caribbean carriers is a great idea and I also hope it will happen eventually but regarding European flights I don't know if it is useful to join those flights with a common fleet. You can have a few main hubs to feed nonstop flights to Europe. The point where such a co-operation will clash is which islands will be used as a hub. Every Caribbean islands wants to become a hub which is logical as it generates more money to the island. Would Trinidad or Jamaica give up there position as a Caribbean hub? Would St. Maarten, Guadeloupe, Aruba, Curacao or the Dominican Republic give up there position as a Caribbean hub? No, for the simple reason that it generates more money to the island as a hub instead of just a feeder airport.

Another thing is: People prefer to have nonstop flights when it comes down to longhaul flights. Having to transfer at another airport where you have no business to be there makes such a route unattractive. If airlines in the Caribbean would operate European flights together by "island hopping" before continuing the long journey to Europe, people will use European airlines to go to their final destination nonstop instead of going through the hazzle of going through another (unnecessary) airport.

A388
 
trintocan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:27 pm

Good points there A388. Yes every island will want its own flights to Europe but what I was thinking was in terms of a multi-centric operation with the shared fleet offering services from each island in turn. You are right that this may be a bit difficult to implement.

All the same, the massive success AA has in carrying POS passengers to LHR (via MIA), and to a lesser extent AC has had via YYZ, suggests that a connection is worthwhile if the price is right.

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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 165):
All the same, the massive success AA has in carrying POS passengers to LHR (via MIA), and to a lesser extent AC has had via YYZ, suggests that a connection is worthwhile if the price is right.

Price and the amount of frequent flyer miles that can be earned!! In addition in the latter years of BW I am sure that those connections were not as bad as having to deal with BW and their delays!!!

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caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:29 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 166):
Price and the amount of frequent flyer miles that can be earned!! In addition in the latter years of BW I am sure that those connections were not as bad as having to deal with BW and their delays!!!

This is true, however the same is being said about BAs service to BGI-LGW, the flights are doing well from what I've heard with all indications, and the late evening connection between POS-BGI then onto BGI-LGW is great.
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aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 165):
All the same, the massive success AA has in carrying POS passengers to LHR (via MIA), and to a lesser extent AC has had via YYZ, suggests that a connection is worthwhile if the price is right.

I've taken advantage of AA's flights over hte past 3 years and i make no less than 3 round trip European trips each year and so far all have been on AA via MIA, sometimes going onward to New York or Chicago for a quick visit, but most times connecting to LHR. And I've seen many other trinis on ym lfights make the connection!

AA1818
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BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 167):

Well I really did not expect the route to be doing badly. BA has a pretty good product and doing POS in conjunction with BGI boost the chances of the route performing well. In addition BA has the cheapest fares on BGI POS right now!!!

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 168):

Question why do you go LHR via MIA are the fares so much cheaper or is it that if is going to cost about the same it is better to get your miles on it??

[Edited 2007-10-25 17:30:44]
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hummingbird
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:43 am

An editoral response to JM/VS slot sale.

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071026/letters/letters1.html.


There is high uncertainty regarding the acquisition of A319 and B757 aircrafts. The company has already sold its shares to the new investor. More to come.
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aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 168):
There is high uncertainty regarding the acquisition of A319 and B757 aircrafts. The company has already sold its shares to the new investor. More to come.

JM is already being sold off??
That's a bit shady- surely there should have been open bidding for the company!
I'm suprised anyone wants a piece of JM- they haven't shown that they can be profitable yet!! This makes me think it's a large foreign investor rather than a smaller local or regional investor with less of an appetite for risk!

AA1818
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jm017
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 168):
An editoral response to JM/VS slot sale.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071026/letters/letters1.html.

Just curious about the "other significant benefits" they secured in this transaction. VS has already announced a reduction in the number of flights to Jamaica from four to three.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:13 pm

Quoting JM017 (Reply 170):
Just curious about the "other significant benefits" they secured in this transaction. VS has already announced a reduction in the number of flights to Jamaica from four to three.

But there is still benefit in going from two to four and then from four to three. All in all it appears to be a Net Gain of 1 flight per week- hey a gain is a gain!! However it is a loss if u look at it from JM's previous presumably daily schedule.

There were similar questions raised about Caribbean Airlines selling their slots to BA. Too Cheap, nothign in return, less flights per week etc.

Caribbean Airlines has managed to maintain offering daily service to London 3x direct 4x connect in BGI, so there was no reduction in capacity whatsoever. JM however seems to be going from 7 to 1 per week out of KIN. Are they also Codesharing out of MBJ?

Additionally, we got slightly above market value, for our slots, as did JM, so financial benefits coming in there. Cutting losses- LHR must have been a serious drain for both airline so preventing bleeding of money.

All in all I'd say there are some pretty SIGNIFICANT financial benefits. I hope we can stop thinking of the loss of LHR in terms of PRIDE and think of it more along the lines of ECONOMICS and FINANCE.

AA1818
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aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:13 pm

BWIA772- I remember you designing a new logo for Caribbean Airlines where the titles were in blue and green. I've got a friend who is quite keen to see how it looks on the 738. Did u apply it to a 738 by any chance and if so can you please e-mail me a copy! Thanks a million!!

AA1818
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jm017
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:42 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 171):
But there is still benefit in going from two to four and then from four to three. All in all it appears to be a Net Gain of 1 flight per week- hey a gain is a gain!! However it is a loss if u look at it from JM's previous presumably daily schedule.

I think the total of four refers to flights to MBJ and KIN. Presently there are two weekly flights to MBJ and they plan to begin with two flights to KIN. Shortly they will share one flight between MBJ and KIN for a total of three.

Not sure if the numbers represent a decline in the number of seats (from the # of seats provided by JM)..
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hummingbird
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:19 am

IMO.

If VS uses its high density 747-400, this would mean 439 available seats per day which would represent 876 per week to KIN. This is enough capacity until the market develops.
KIN is known as a high VFR and medium business market. With its super inflight product VS will be able to develop the market. With its 787s coming online, I would expect to see them being deployed to Caribbean destination with increased frequencies.
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BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:11 am

Question here.

Was JM loads to LHR that great?? If this is the case the only thing that has happened is that your choices as it relates to the days that you can travel to and from London to Jamaica has been reduced!!!

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 174):

 checkmark 

I would not be surprised if BA is getting more POS pax than BW got!!
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trintocan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:45 am

Some fun here, but one can easily compare POS and KIN, both are VFR and business markets rather than tourist ones. MBJ, TAB and ANU are principally tourist markets while BGI lies somewhere between the 2 extremes. Ultimately it seems as though both BW and JM had considerable difficulty in operating to LHR in a manner that satisfied both sectors of the travel market between the UK and the region - something that BA and VS, both with more planes and wider marketing powers, could handle more easily. Thus, alongside the issues of stand-alone fleets and limited markets, there is another elemnet that probably contributed to the downfall of both airlines' UK services.

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A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 174):
With its 787s coming online, I would expect to see them being deployed to Caribbean destination with increased frequencies.

As I've said before, the 787 is a premium aircraft. VS will not send the 787 to the Caribbean soon as it is needed on VS's premium routes elsewhere. VS is more likely to send the A346 to the Caribbean as "upgrade". Especially a route that is known for VFR no airline will send their premium aircraft to fly that route. The 787 is this case will cater the high paying passengers which is not the case on any VFR route. So I highly doubt VS will send the 787 to KIN or any other Caribbean route any time soon. In their Caribbean network I think BGI will have the best bet of receiving the VS 787.

A388
 
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hummingbird
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 177):

Not according to this article. Will keep our fingers crossed to see VS 787 in The Caribbean by 2014.


Virgin's 787s Will Fly New Routes and Replace A340s: CEO
By Chris Kjelgaard, Aviation.com Senior Editor

posted: 24 April 2007 6:35 p.m. ET
Related Images


The Boeing 787s that Virgin Atlantic Airways has ordered will replace the carrier's Airbus A340-300s and possibly some of its older A340-600s, according to the airline's CEO, Steve Ridgway. However, Virgin will keep most of its A340-600s in service after it starts taking delivery of its 787s.
The Boeing 787s that Virgin Atlantic Airways has ordered will replace the carrier's Airbus A340-300s and possibly some of its older A340-600s, according to the airline's CEO, Steve Ridgway. However, Virgin will keep most of its A340-600s in service after it starts taking delivery of its 787s.
Virgin Atlantic Airways will use the 15 Boeing 787-9s it has ordered to launch routes to a wide variety of new business and leisure destinations.

Steve Ridgway, Virgin Atlantic's chief executive, told Aviation.com that the 787-9s also will replace six Airbus A340-300s now in the airline's fleet and perhaps could replace its oldest A340-600s too.

"We will make sure we are managing the business to grow ... and preserve as much flexibility as we can," said Ridgway. The 787-9 order will give Virgin Atlantic a range of options regarding network and service frequency growth and aircraft replacement, he added.

The 787s will be Virgin Atlantic's first twin-engined widebody aircraft. Its fleet is now composed entirely of four-engined aircraft. The carrier will use the type throughout its network, said Ridgway. At present Virgin Atlantic's route network extends to North America, the Caribbean, Asia and Africa.

When Virgin Atlantic starts receiving its 787s in spring 2011 it will use them to launch routes from the three airports it serves in the United Kingdom to new destinations such as Bangkok, Melbourne, Rio de Janeiro, Seattle, Toronto and Vancouver, added Ridgway. Virgin Atlantic's UK gateways are London Heathrow, London Gatwick and Manchester.

Virgin Atlantic's 787 delivery schedule calls for it to receive four aircraft in 2011. The first is tentatively due to go to the carrier in April that year. Three more 787s are scheduled for delivery in 2012, four in 2013 and four in 2014.

The "very, very extensive" range of the 787-9 - at present the largest model of the 787 offered by Boeing - also would allow Virgin Atlantic to operate its 787s on nonstop services from the UK to destinations such as Perth in Western Australia and to Hawaii, said Ridgway.

"We are the number one long-haul tour operator from the UK," he noted, adding that the 787-9's passenger capacity would be "suitable for some of the smaller islands in the Caribbean and the Indian Ocean." These are leisure destinations that Virgin serves already or would like to serve in future.

Seat configurations among Virgin Atlantic's 787s could vary depending on whether the routes each aircraft operates are primarily business or primarily tourism destinations, said Ridgway.

The airline sees its 787s seating 250-290 passengers. Business destinations would be served by 787s configured with larger premium-class cabins, in which seat widths and the distances between seats would be greater, so the number of seats in these aircraft would be fewer overall.

In addition to its firm order for 15 787s, Virgin Atlantic has also taken options on another eight 787s and negotiated purchase rights on 20 further aircraft. Ridgway revealed the airline has the right to convert its commitments on these 28 aircraft to the larger 787-1000 model that several potential customers - notably Emirates - have been asking Boeing to develop but which the manufacturer has yet to agree to launch.

"We're watching the development of that aircraft with interest," remarked Ridgway.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 177):

We have to wait and see what VS does about the 20 strong fleet of 747s (it would be nice if they got the 748). Besides BGI has any other destination seen the A346??

BTW the ATC guys are on strike so delays at POS all round my flight has been delayed!!!

Regards
BWIA 772
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A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:43 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 179):
We have to wait and see what VS does about the 20 strong fleet of 747s (it would be nice if they got the 748).

VS has already said several times that their 747s will be replaced by the A346, remember they have a lot of A346s that still need to be delivered. Do you remember that large A346 order VS placed last year? That is the order that will replace most of their 747 fleet. A potential order for the A380 or 748 will be for additional capacity and not for 747 replacement.

A388

[Edited 2007-10-27 06:48:55]
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 179):
BTW the ATC guys are on strike so delays at POS all round my flight has been delayed!!!

Yeah, everyone and their mother is striking in POS. Anyways 9YBGI is returning home after a major C check in its new color http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BWA7401
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caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 180):
VS has already said several times that their 747s will be replaced by the A346, remember they have a lot of A346s that still need to be delivered. Do you remember that large A346 order VS placed last year? That is the order that will replace most of their 747 fleet. A potential order for the A380 or 748 will be for additional capacity and
not for 747 replacement

Yes they did say that, however the fact remains that they are also going to order more VLA in the A380 or 748 sometime soon, so their A380 will not be replacing all of their 744s, but rather some on leisure routes.

As for the argument of 787 coming into the caribbean, we may not see it for another few years after initial deliver, because as the article by hummingbird said is that VS will be only planning to replace their A343 and some old A346, as a result they will be be flying to more North America routes, Africa and Asian.
Now if we are to take the airticle as it is, they some more destinations in the caribbean. more so the ones with low pax expectations will see some 787, maybe like SXM, SJU, the GND-TAB route and maybe POS.
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md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:56 pm

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 182):
As for the argument of 787 coming into the caribbean, we may not see it for another few years after initial deliver, because as the article by hummingbird said is that VS will be only planning to replace their A343 and some old A346, as a result they will be be flying to more North America routes, Africa and Asian.

Not only that, why waste a 787 on a nominally low yielding route that is what? 8 hours from your hub and has no competition?

They're fine using appropriate aircraft (i.e A343/744/etc).
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A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 183):
Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 182):
As for the argument of 787 coming into the caribbean, we may not see it for another few years after initial deliver, because as the article by hummingbird said is that VS will be only planning to replace their A343 and some old A346, as a result they will be be flying to more North America routes, Africa and Asian.

Not only that, why waste a 787 on a nominally low yielding route that is what? 8 hours from your hub and has no competition?

They're fine using appropriate aircraft (i.e A343/744/etc).

That is what I'm trying to say as well. No airline will put a premium aircraft on a low yielding flight which is characterized by VFR traffic and not premium first class passengers. Like I said, I only see BGI is a possible Caribbean candidate for VS's 787 and even they might also see the A346 before the 787 will come to the Caribbean (if it will come).

I do hope VS will send their 787s to the Caribbean, don't get me wrong, but I just highly doubt they will do so. Time will tell.

Cheers

A388  Smile
 
akizidy214
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:47 pm

Reasons for JM struggles

My top 3 reasons for JM struggles to maintain a consistence profit.

1. Visa requirements to the US and the UK. The JM government has to due something about this.

There are many Jamaicans that have the money and would love to travel to foreign but can't due these visa requirements, that are actually quite ridiculous. Although the UK has good reason there are more Jamaicans in the UK prison system then Brits. So there for the AA's and BA'a are going to have a better o/d traffic than JM.

2. High MTX cost and the wrong fleet type.

IMHO JM should be flying 319's, 320's and 330-200's im not going to jump the airbus bandwagon yet and join the boeing wagon but im close......  stirthepot 

Anytime you have to fly a plane half way across the world for MTX, Your operating cost are going to be ridiculous! Opening Vernamfield would be a great start. It would also be a great HUB for cargo flights and some contract MTX.

3. The lack of a turbo prop a/c.....

Jamaicans need to get over this fear of flying on props and that certain a/c are not safe.

Please stop flying 320's and 340's on 20 min flights between MBJ - KIN that just run up cycles.

JM needs an ATR type a/c to fly inner Caribbean routes that have real potential. Just look at the airline that is about 1000 miles to the east. "OW"

KIN - MBJ shuttle

KIN/MBJ - HAV
KIN/MBJ - BON
KIN/MBJ - SDQ
KIN/MBJ - GCM
KIN/MBJ - BZE

Irie
DCA
 
jm017
Posts: 781
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 6:47 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:27 pm

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 174):

If VS uses its high density 747-400, this would mean 439 available seats per day which would represent 876 per week to KIN. This is enough capacity until the market develops.
KIN is known as a high VFR and medium business market.

If you add the two flights to MBJ, that seems like a net increase in the number of seats over JM.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:34 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 179):
Besides BGI has any other destination seen the A346??

ANU if I am not mistaken.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 182):
maybe like SXM, SJU, the GND-TAB route and maybe POS.

Then maybe the should have used the 343 for these destinations. However I don't think that these routes do so badly. In fact during heavy seasons, the flights between GND and TAB are not sharedd, with each destination getting its own flight. DUring off seasons, it does well as a shared flight though.
Look Up
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:04 pm

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 185):
JM needs an ATR type a/c to fly inner Caribbean routes that have real potential. Just look at the airline that is about 1000 miles to the east. "OW"

SAS just said they'll dump their fleet of 27 DASH-8Q400s, those birds will be prime for JM, UP, BW, the LIAT/8B offspring etc.
SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s! (by [email protected] Oct 28 2007 in Civil Aviation)

As I've said before the DASH-8 saves one $2,000,000+ on a sub ~500 mile hop vs. a competing regional jet.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
bw415
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:30 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 188):
SAS just said they'll dump their fleet of 27 DASH-8Q400s, those birds will be prime for JM, UP, BW, the LIAT/8B offspring etc.

Why would this even be considered prime? It's quite obvious that these planes are defective.. what sensible management would adopt these planes for shorter routes (more cycles) than those operated by SAS.. it just would not be wise..the Q400 problems need to be fixed before they are even considered for this region.
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
akizidy214
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:10 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:34 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 188):
SAS just said they'll dump their fleet of 27 DASH-8Q400s, those birds will be prime for JM, UP, BW, the LIAT/8B offspring etc.

If any of the above airlines were to pick these birds up it would be a sad mistake. Im talking new ATR 72-600's or SAAB 2000's
DCA
 
A388
Posts: 8057
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 189):
If any of the above airlines were to pick these birds up it would be a sad mistake. Im talking new ATR 72-600's or SAAB 2000's

Of course new aircraft are better, but the main problem in our region is money. Not all Caribbean airlines have enough finances to go for new aircraft. An ATR42-600 and/or ATR72-600 indeed would be awesome for the Caribbean  Smile

A388
 
aa1818
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:24 pm

I e-mailled CM for some info about the flight to POS...

here was the reply...Friday 26th Oct 2007

Good morning Mr. C*****
Thanks for writing us. At this moment we don't have a date to start operations from POS due internal reasons. Please contact us in December for more information.
Regards A**** A********
Help Desk Shares Analyst
Copa Airlines

I'm quite shocked!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
TransIsland
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:22 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 188):
SAS just said they'll dump their fleet of 27 DASH-8Q400s, those birds will be prime for JM, UP, BW, the LIAT/8B offspring etc.

You've GOT to be joking!

1. UP had two incidents over the past few months involving landing gears on their Dash-8-300s. SAS had three with their Q400s, which is why they're grounding them. Do we really want to adopt a known problem bird???

2. As far as UP is concerned, even the 300 series is too large for most out island routes, and it's too small for South Florida; if not always pax-wise, then certainly cargo-wise. The 400 series won't solve either problem.
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 193):
You've GOT to be joking!

Totally agree. Q400s NEVER!! (although never say never with some of these decisions that are made in the Caribbean)....tomorrow's headlines might read CAL buys 4 planes from SAS hehehehe

Would be great to see more ATRs flying around. Anyone knows how the ATR's performed on POS-TAb a few summers ago- the ones leased from Cimber Air?

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
A388
Posts: 8057
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 194):
Totally agree. Q400s NEVER!!

I don't think we should bring down the Dash-8Q400 just because one airline (SAS) is having a bad experience with them. Of all the airlines that operate the Q400, one airline has had bad experience of the past few months and right away the Q400 is practically burnt alive here. I mean, come on guys! Do Horizon Air, Austrian, Tyrolean, FlyBe, Lufthansa, QantasLink and ANA also complain about their Q400 fleet? If that is the case, than yes, there is a problem with the aircraft but we are talking about one airline and all of a sudden the Q400 is bashed and chararcterized for being the worse aircraft built in our age, it appears.

For Christ sake, Frontier Airlines will start or has started operating the Q400!!!! Qantas also ordered more Q400s!!! Let's not focus on one airline's bad experience too much and look at the wider picture. The Q400 is one of the best new generation turboprops flying around these days.

A388
 
caribbean484
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 190):
If any of the above airlines were to pick these birds up it would be a sad mistake. Im talking new ATR 72-600's or SAAB 2000's

I agree with you firmly on that one, its the reason CAL got rid of 9YJIL, it was a problem aircraft.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 194):
Would be great to see more ATRs flying around. Anyone knows how the ATR's performed on POS-TAb a few summers ago- the ones leased from Cimber Air?

They did a nice job on the route from what if heard a few years ago.
All ah we is one family
 
bw415
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 195):
I don't think we should bring down the Dash-8Q400 just because one airline (SAS) is having a bad experience with them. Of all the airlines that operate the Q400, one airline has had bad experience of the past few months and right away the Q400 is practically burnt alive here. I mean, come on guys! Do Horizon Air, Austrian, Tyrolean, FlyBe, Lufthansa, QantasLink and ANA also complain about their Q400 fleet? If that is the case, than yes, there is a problem with the aircraft but we are talking about one airline and all of a sudden the Q400 is bashed and chararcterized for being the worse aircraft built in our age, it appears.

SAS is not the only operator to have gear problems on the q400... All Nippon Airways had an incident earlier this year where the front landing gear failed to deploy on landing...and we don't know the cycles of the other airlines either.. for all we know even though SAS was not the first operator the other airlines may not have more than 10000 hours of usage with their aircraft...they have problems with the gear.. its clear.. and I think that its only a matter of time before the other airlines start panicing and grounding their fleet temporarily..

Also the Q300 is a far more durable aircraft and can handle the high cycles that they operate under here on most of the intra-caribbean routes.. the Q400 was not built with these routes in mind and will never be a sensible choice.. at best on POS-SJU for example.. but on shorter routes.. definitely not.. the Q400 was built for direct competition with regional jets and not for competition with other turboprop aircraft.

bw415
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
aa1818
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 197):
Also the Q300 is a far more durable aircraft and can handle the high cycles that they operate under here on most of the intra-caribbean routes.. the Q400 was not built with these routes in mind and will never be a sensible choice.. at best on POS-AND San Juan - Luis Munoz Marin International (SJU / TJSJ), Puerto Rico">SJU for example.. but on shorter routes.. definitely not.. the Q400 was built for direct competition with regional jets and not for competition with other turboprop aircraft.

100% agree with you on that issue. The Q400 is only suitable in capacity but not in performance. As bw415 put it- it's best for POS-AND San Juan - Luis Munoz Marin International (SJU / TJSJ), Puerto Rico">SJU, POS-CUR, POS-ANU, POS-KIN (maybe), but not POS-TAB/ BGI/ GND.

What are the stats like for the ATR and the Saab- are they better tuied to high freqeucy, low altitude, short distance flying??

If Caribbean Airlines wants to compete profitably on intra-regional routes and run the airbridge, they are going to need mroe than the 3 operational Dash8-300s that they have at the moment!! HURRY UP AND GET SOME PLANES!!!!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
bloodyrascal
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XXI

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:24 pm

http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=47&a=14597

I thought this was rather interesting.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 193):
UP had two incidents over the past few months involving landing gears on their Dash-8-300s. SAS had three with their Q400s, which is why they're grounding them. Do we really want to adopt a known problem bird???

we need some more aircraft badly. I think the dash8s would be a good thing to go for as a temporary solution for lack of aircraft use them on the NAS-FPO, HAV and PLS routes.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 193):
2. As far as UP is concerned, even the 300 series is too large for most out island routes, and it's too small for South Florida; if not always pax-wise, then certainly cargo-wise. The 400 series won't solve either problem.

I say we could convert the dash8s 400s 1 or 2 into cargo aircraft cause even the 732s on the NAS south florida routes isnt enough.

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