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PlaneHunter
Posts: 6538
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:24 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 99):
I also see the enourmous value a "flagship" can have when it comes to the media.

The attention is not permanent - what's always relevant, however, is to convince customers with premium products.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 99):
Other with the 747 up to last week, and the A380 since of today: You document you are in the first line, and just because you have an A380 you can go and charge 3$ more on every A330( or B777 or...) seat you sell.

According to that logic, many quality carriers would have lost their competitiveness a long time ago. It's fine for the marketing department to have a "flagship", but what really counts is yields - and a quality carrier doesn't necessarily need a VLA to be competitive and profitable.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Thorben
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:28 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 89):
Really? Never noticed the T7 cabin to be uncomfortable, even against the A380.

So - how many times did you fly on the A380????

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 89):
But hey, I'm not one for numbers so I won't look up actual dimensions.

Like a lot of people on this side do.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 97):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 93):
I don't know who you are quoting,

Reading again may help to solve these kinds of mysteries...

Too much work for your mistakes.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 97):
Whether certain people don't want to hear it or not - these headphones are part of many carriers' premium products. So many "premium flyers" (not those purchasing discounted Eco tickets) couldn't care less about the cabin noise itself.

Like giving free blankets to people buying a car without a working heating.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 97):
(not those purchasing discounted Eco tickets)

Is this some form of arrogance? I don't know who pays your "premium" tickets, but I'll stick with my fellow economy slaves.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 97):
Heating systems are essential features in cars - while a cabin noise difference between two modern airliners is not relevent when an airline seeks the most economic aircraft.
But who knows? Maybe some airlines soon start to dump their oh-so-loud 777 fleets and replace them with A380s? Who cares about 250 empty seats when all passengers can whisper? Yeah sure

Any route that can fill A380s will see them. The 777s can be put on less important routes.

And concerning the headphones: I don't want some Flickschusterei-solution to the problem, I want the problem to be solved at the root.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 97):
After having flown on A330/340s and 777s many times I can only laugh about the "noise" discussion. It may be a big deal for some people on a.net, bit not in the real world.

Maybe because some people are used to way louder noises (like cars for people with certain deficits.)

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 97):
The discussion about the term "flagship" is quite ridiculous, too. Airlines order aircraft for economic reasons and not to praise how big and great their "flagship" is. A small number of travelers (enthusiasts, kids etc.) may be impressed by the hype about an airline's flagship, but not the pax who actually help the airline to make money.

The most impressive plane is the flagship, that has nothing to do with economics. Besides, it is going to have the best economics, too.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
billreid
Topic Author
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 101):
The most impressive plane is the flagship, that has nothing to do with economics. Besides, it is going to have the best economics, too.

That is why I argue the A350XWB will be the flagship not the A380, just as the B787 not the B747. Although not to defeat my own argument but does it really matter what the flagship will be?
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
Thorben
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting BillReid (Reply 102):
That is why I argue the A350XWB will be the flagship not the A380, just as the B787 not the B747. Although not to defeat my own argument but does it really matter what the flagship will be?

Flagship is about size or speed. So the 747-8I will be Boeing's flagship. But to be honest, it doesn't really matter much.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 101):
Like giving free blankets to people buying a car without a working heating.

A car without heating system wouldn't sell - in contrast, an aircraft with a slighly noisier cabin compared to a competitor does sell, because the difference isn't considered relevant.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 101):
Is this some form of arrogance? I don't know who pays your "premium" tickets, but I'll stick with my fellow economy slaves.

Personal preferences don't matter in that discussion - it's a fact that travelers in F and C class are most important to an airline.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 101):
Any route that can fill A380s will see them. The 777s can be put on less important routes.

Or A350/777/787s are used just more frequently.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 101):
And concerning the headphones: I don't want some Flickschusterei-solution to the problem, I want the problem to be solved at the root.

The "problem" hasn't stopped the "oh-so-loud" 777 to outsell its quieter competition - so the whole noise issue is just a marketing hype.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 101):
Maybe because some people are used to way louder noises (like cars for people with certain deficits.)

 Yeah sure

Travellers in the real world out there have no problem with a slightly noisier cabin because it just doesn't really matter.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 101):
The most impressive plane is the flagship, that has nothing to do with economics. Besides, it is going to have the best economics, too.

"Most impressive" for enthusiasts or kids? It's much more important that premium class flyers are "most impressed" by onboard features and service. And if you can't fill a VLA, you can forget about economics...

Quoting Thorben (Reply 103):
Flagship is about size or speed. So the 747-8I will be Boeing's flagship. But to be honest, it doesn't really matter much.

It's the "flagship" term which doesn't matter much. And I guess Boeing doesn't mind about the B748 - which has been selling fine as a freighter - being smaller than the competition's "flagship" as long as it makes money for the company...


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
columba
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
The "problem" hasn't stopped the "oh-so-loud" 777 to outsell its quieter competition - so the whole noise issue is just a marketing hype

Still Boeing had a blog on their website were they claimed the A380 as too quiet.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
"Most impressive" for enthusiasts or kids? It's much more important that premium class flyers are "most impressed" by onboard features and service. And if you can't fill a VLA, you can forget about economics...

The whole flagship discussion went out of hand. It is really not that important. We are not arguing that airlines that have no need for the A380 will buy it just because they need a flagship.
Thorben and I and others are just saying that airlines that have ordered it will consider it their flagship and gave a definition of what a flagship is in the general opinion. This has nothing to do with dismissing the 777 or 787 but just with the fact that the A380 currently is and propably for some time will be the largest passenger aircraft. For years the 747 has been the flagship of airlines such as SQ or QF even as they have add newer aircraft like the 77W or the A330 to their fleet now it is the A380. LH consider both the A380 and the 747-8I as their future flagships.
Air Berlin - gone but not forgotten
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:10 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 105):
Still Boeing had a blog on their website were they claimed the A380 as too quiet.

Marketing department reacting to marketing department...I'd be careful with anything on their websites.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
flysherwood
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:16 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 99):
Concerning the number of 800, I read an interview with some chinese minister a few weeks ago. He argued, that due to the fact that aviation will continue to grow with more than 20% per year, and the major airports can not be expanded to scope for this, he estimates the need for 200 domestic VLA in twenty years.

And you can bet that maybe half of them will go to the 747-8I. The Chinese will always split orders between Airbus and Boeing. There is too much pressure with regards to the trade deficit to give all of this to the A380. The USA is still China's biggest market for it's exports. And Boeing is and always will be the number one (1) exporter of American products.
 
Thorben
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:18 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
A car without heating system wouldn't sell - in contrast, an aircraft with a slighly noisier cabin compared to a competitor does sell, because the difference isn't considered relevant.

The point is that it is a cheap cover-up and not a real solution. I don't want these earplugs, I want a quiet cabin.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
Personal preferences don't matter in that discussion - it's a fact that travelers in F and C class are most important to an airline.

To some airlines, but not to all. Some don't even have a first class anymore, others have only economy.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
Or A350/777/787s are used just more frequently.

A lot of pax will chose the airline with the A380 then.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):

The "problem" hasn't stopped the "oh-so-loud" 777 to outsell its quieter competition - so the whole noise issue is just a marketing hype.

It is one issue among others.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
Travellers in the real world out there have no problem with a slightly noisier cabin because it just doesn't really matter.

Depends on the traveller. And how much is "slightly noisier"?

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
"Most impressive" for enthusiasts or kids? It's much more important that premium class flyers are "most impressed" by onboard features and service. And if you can't fill a VLA, you can forget about economics...

Most impressive to look at. Onboard features depend on what you put in the plane. The A380 is the biggest and will offer the highest comfort.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
It's the "flagship" term which doesn't matter much. And I guess Boeing doesn't mind about the B748 - which has been selling fine as a freighter - being smaller than the competition's "flagship" as long as it makes money for the company...

It mattered to a lot of enthusiasts that they no longer have the biggest.

Quoting Columba (Reply 105):
Still Boeing had a blog on their website were they claimed the A380 as too quiet.

Which is more than ridiculous.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
flysherwood
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:18 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 101):
The most impressive plane is the flagship, that has nothing to do with economics. Besides, it is going to have the best economics, too.

If the plane is full EVERY day!!!  Wink
 
flysherwood
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:23 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 108):
Most impressive to look at. Onboard features depend on what you put in the plane. The A380 is the biggest and will offer the highest comfort.

I think I will really enjoy the lower pressure cabin of the 787 a hell of a lot more than riding in an oversized cattle car that has 600+ people to race against going through customs at CDG or LHR in the early hours of the morning!  Yeah sure
 
Thorben
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:27 pm

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 109):
If the plane is full EVERY day!!! Wink

Most carriers seem to be able to make profits with lower load factors (70-80%)

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 110):
I think I will really enjoy the lower pressure cabin of the 787 a hell of a lot more than riding in an oversized cattle car that has 600+ people to race against going through customs at CDG or LHR in the early hours of the morning! Yeah sure

Haha, the cattle car has two decks, so you won't really notice how big it is from the inside. Besides, your individual space is going to be bigger, so what is the deal?

Racing to customs is not related to the size of the aircraft. You can have that with a 787, too.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
flysherwood
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 111):

Racing to customs is not related to the size of the aircraft. You can have that with a 787, too.

You are right there of course. I just would feel sorry for the the number 600th guy in line at CDG at 7:00 a.m.. I just love those French Immigration and Customs officers and how efficient they are.  Wink
 
David_itl
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 112):
You are right there of course. I just would feel sorry for the the number 600th guy in line at CDG at 7:00 a.m

I didn't know AF were planning at least 600 passengers in their A380s. I only know about EK going well above 500. Now if you want to talk abpout French airlines squeezing the maximum number of people into an aircraft, shall we say Corse Air and theie 580 seater 744s? Or doesn't that count because it's a 744?

Then again, if 2 787s were to arrive within a couple of minutes of each other, then is that just as bad as your "horror scenario" of an A380 arrival?
 
GBan
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
Travellers in the real world out there have no problem with a slightly noisier cabin because it just doesn't really matter.

If that was the case I'd say cabin altitude and humidity don't matter either. I am sure all of these do matter as soon as there is a better choice.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
A car without heating system wouldn't sell - in contrast, an aircraft with a slighly noisier cabin compared to a competitor does sell, because the difference isn't considered relevant.

I haven't flown in a 380 yet, but the noise difference has been brought up by many people who have flown it, including airline representatives. I don't have the impression that it is irrelevant.
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 101):
Any route that can fill A380s will see them. The 777s can be put on less important routes.

Or A350/777/787s are used just more frequently.

Quite a few intercontinental routes has a small window of time for departure,
unless the passengers wants to have a 12hour flight in full daylight or arrive to the destination in the middle of the night.
Example is South East Asia to Europe.
On these routes, frequency is not of big importance, and these routes are perfectly suited for as big plane as you can fill.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 108):
The point is that it is a cheap cover-up and not a real solution. I don't want these earplugs, I want a quiet cabin.

What is "quiet"? Only the A380's cabin? Or Airbus cabins in general? Whatever, you can choose. But don't expect the world's travelers to mock about such a marginal issue such as "plane X is slightly noisier than plane Z". What’s more relevant is price, seating comfort, IFE, catering etc.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 108):
To some airlines, but not to all. Some don't even have a first class anymore, others have only economy.

So which carrier has so far announced plans to fly an all-Eco A380, hoping to steal away high-yield pax from the competition on longhaul routes?

Quoting Thorben (Reply 108):
A lot of pax will chose the airline with the A380 then.

Enthusiasts, event-flyers, probably yes. But business travelers demand comfort as well as frequencies. An airline flying one daily A380 intra-Asia will face problems when going-head-to head with a carrier flying four 787s on the route daily.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 108):
Depends on the traveller. And how much is "slightly noisier"?

Let's make it easier: If the quieter A340 had been so dramatically important to travelers as some people seem to suggest, airlines wouldn't have preferred the 777. So in the end, the noise difference doesn't matter. And the A380 won't change that. It's all about economics.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 108):
Most impressive to look at. Onboard features depend on what you put in the plane. The A380 is the biggest and will offer the highest comfort.

There's nothing which you couldn't offer on smaller aircraft. Personal suites, lounge areas - all that already exists. Where’s the revolutionary difference between SIA’s A380 and its 77W?

Quoting Thorben (Reply 108):
It mattered to a lot of enthusiasts that they no longer have the biggest.

Enthusiasts are irrelevant for the success of aircraft programs.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 111):
Most carriers seem to be able to make profits with lower load factors (70-80%)

Yet it's easier to achieve 80% on a 787 than on an A380.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 111):
Besides, your individual space is going to be bigger, so what is the deal?

Personal space is not necessarily going to be more.

Quoting GBan (Reply 114):
If that was the case I'd say cabin altitude and humidity don't matter either. I am sure all of these do matter as soon as there is a better choice.

Many people suffer from the dry air on longhaul flights - the difference will be noticeable. Though, whether airlines are influenced by that when choosing an aircraft is a different question.

Quoting GBan (Reply 114):
I haven't flown in a 380 yet, but the noise difference has been brought up by many people who have flown it, including airline representatives. I don't have the impression that it is irrelevant.

I don't deny that it will be quieter - but I doubt it's enough to be a driving factor for an airline's fleet planning.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 115):
Quite a few intercontinental routes has a small window of time for departure,
unless the passengers wants to have a 12hour flight in full daylight or arrive to the destination in the middle of the night.

Very true, but there have been numerous examples where airlines have downgraded from 747s on these flights in the past years. Besides, I was rather talking about routes where small departure windows are irrelevant.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Leskova
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RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 108):
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
"Most impressive" for enthusiasts or kids? It's much more important that premium class flyers are "most impressed" by onboard features and service. And if you can't fill a VLA, you can forget about economics...

Most impressive to look at. Onboard features depend on what you put in the plane. The A380 is the biggest and will offer the highest comfort.

Size does not equal comfort - I've experienced flights on A320s that were, by far, more comfortable than flights on A300s or A330s; I've had more comfortable flights on B717s than on B747s or B777s.

Size only offers the ability to the airline to give the passenger more space - whether they do so or not is completely up to the airline. An A380 can end up far more cramped than a B738 operated by FR or an A319 operated by U2.

Quoting David_itl (Reply 113):
Then again, if 2 787s were to arrive within a couple of minutes of each other, then is that just as bad as your "horror scenario" of an A380 arrival?

Bingo - and if it's not just two, but one from, say, PIT, one from MSP, one from MEM, one from DTW, one from SEA, one from LAS, one from SMF, one from SJC, one from ... well... you get my point: there's absolutely nothing in the concept of operating smaller aircraft that will prevent immigration- and customs-lines to shrink at both ends of the flight... and for all those now preparing to answer that all those flights won't be heading to CDG (or LHR, or FRA, ...) but to the actual destinations of the passengers? Please... anyone expecting to see SMF-MRS, SJC-NUE, LAS-HAJ or AUS-NAP flights in the near or forseable future should seriously think again: most of the flights on B787s will end up having a hub at one end of the flight as well.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 116):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 108):
A lot of pax will chose the airline with the A380 then.

Enthusiasts, event-flyers, probably yes. But business travelers demand comfort as well as frequencies.

True - when I fly for fun, I do select my flights according to a lot of parameters, equipment being an important one in that. On business flights, I look at the schedule, nothing else.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
jasond
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting Brilondon (Reply 10):
The problem with this statement is that the A380 is a niche aircraft and will only be logical on a select number of routes which it is suited for and there for not really a flagship type.

One of many definitions:

"...the most important or prestigious among a group of similar and related things..."

Whether it is a flagship or not is dependant on a great many things  Smile
 
GBan
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:58 pm

Quoting Jasond (Reply 118):
Whether it is a flagship or not is dependant on a great many things

I think it does not depend on that many things. The flagship is the one that is called flagship. For whatever reason  Wink

Example LH:

We have one aim with the A380:
We want to be in the forefront. This aircraft will become our flagship. With it, our customers, our shareholders and our employees will experience progress in all its dimensions.

Wolfgang Mayrhuber, CEO Deutsche Lufthansa AG

http://a380.lufthansa.com/en/index.php
 
SCAT15F
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:34 am

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:53 am

800? ...Maybe a 50% composite/ Trent XWB-engined A380  duck 
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 119):
I think it does not depend on that many things. The flagship is the one that is called flagship. For whatever reason Wink

Example LH:

We have one aim with the A380:
We want to be in the forefront. This aircraft will become our flagship. With it, our customers, our shareholders and our employees will experience progress in all its dimensions.

Wolfgang Mayrhuber, CEO Deutsche Lufthansa AG

I think the point I is was making was that the A380 can still be the flagship for Airbus regardless of whether it sells 800 or not contrary to what others have suggested, yes it will be LH's flagship, thats not in dispute, and interestingly it will be its flagship despite not dominating its fleet in numbers.  Smile
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15108
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:55 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 116):
What is "quiet"?

The 757 is NOT quiet (as a pax). That we can establish. Yet it's popularity among airlines is growing for medium range international flying like TATL. Thus it's pretty clear that passengers are not placing noise levels highly on the list of selection criteria. Seems like it's pretty low, actually. Non-stop routing is more important to many. The 757 offers that. Or at least fewer stops.

So while if we are talking about two 500 seat aircraft, and one is much, much quieter than the other, you might see an airline use the noise level as a determining factor.

But when compared to 2 x 250 seat aircraft which can be used for different roles, interior noise levels are going to be lower on the list.

Boeing "thinned" it's insulation on the 787 for a reason. Airlines didn't care about it. They wanted 9 abreast seating, not a cabin as quiet as the A380. Once the quiet testing 777 rig established that the insulation on the 787 could be thinned and maintain the original planned noise levels, Boeing did so. They could have left the insulation thicker and made it quieter inside. But seating capacity and weight won out.

And yet sales of the 787 grew after Boeing made that change. And sales of the A380 did not pick up at all during testing once independent sources raved about just how quiet the plane is inside. What that shows is airlines, who know their customers pretty well, have determined that whisper quiet interior noise is not a high priority item in their list of wants/needs.

But who knows. Once in service, it might be so dramatic it will force airlines and Boeing to rethink their focus. I don't expect that to be the case, but it could happen...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
FRNT787
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:04 am

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:39 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 93):
I would, too. If I was deaf. And blind.

Then I suppose the majority of passengers (Over 75%, who have flown both aircraft) are deaf and blind.  Wink

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 104):
The "problem" hasn't stopped the "oh-so-loud" 777 to outsell its quieter competition - so the whole noise issue is just a marketing hype.

 checkmark 

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 116):
Let's make it easier: If the quieter A340 had been so dramatically important to travelers as some people seem to suggest, airlines wouldn't have preferred the 777. So in the end, the noise difference doesn't matter. And the A380 won't change that. It's all about economics.

 checkmark 
 
GBan
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:30 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 122):
The 757 is NOT quiet (as a pax). That we can establish. Yet it's popularity among airlines is growing for medium range international flying like TATL. Thus it's pretty clear that passengers are not placing noise levels highly on the list of selection criteria. Seems like it's pretty low, actually. Non-stop routing is more important to many. The 757 offers that. Or at least fewer stops.

So while if we are talking about two 500 seat aircraft, and one is much, much quieter than the other, you might see an airline use the noise level as a determining factor.

But when compared to 2 x 250 seat aircraft which can be used for different roles, interior noise levels are going to be lower on the list.

Boeing "thinned" it's insulation on the 787 for a reason. Airlines didn't care about it. They wanted 9 abreast seating, not a cabin as quiet as the A380. Once the quiet testing 777 rig established that the insulation on the 787 could be thinned and maintain the original planned noise levels, Boeing did so. They could have left the insulation thicker and made it quieter inside. But seating capacity and weight won out.

And yet sales of the 787 grew after Boeing made that change. And sales of the A380 did not pick up at all during testing once independent sources raved about just how quiet the plane is inside. What that shows is airlines, who know their customers pretty well, have determined that whisper quiet interior noise is not a high priority item in their list of wants/needs.

But who knows. Once in service, it might be so dramatic it will force airlines and Boeing to rethink their focus. I don't expect that to be the case, but it could happen...

 checkmark 

(Unfortunately for me personally lower noise levels would rank high on the priority list)
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15108
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting GBan (Reply 124):
(Unfortunately for me personally lower noise levels would rank high on the priority list)

Me too, actually! But it isn't so high that I would choose a different airline than I wanted to fly, nor a longer routing.

This is why I have those little foam earplugs. Because not only do they block out aircraft noise, but people talking, too. And noise canceling headphones fit over the foam earplugs, so i can still listen to IFE/music. It's a solution that has worked for me and it doesn't seem to bother people around me that the headphones are louder than they otherwise might be. I guess they don't leak sound. Or the plane's so loud, nobody can hear them...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
art
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: Leahy Predicts 800 A380 Sales?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 107):
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 99):
Concerning the number of 800, I read an interview with some chinese minister a few weeks ago. He argued, that due to the fact that aviation will continue to grow with more than 20% per year, and the major airports can not be expanded to scope for this, he estimates the need for 200 domestic VLA in twenty years.

And you can bet that maybe half of them will go to the 747-8I.

I can't bet that. If the Chinese order lots of VLA's I think that less than 25% will be 747-8I's. In this instance, the Chinese would want a very large aircraft, I think - 600/700/800/900/1000 seats. 748-I's won't be big enough - my guess would be 20-40 out of the 200 VLA's mentioned and those mostly for diplomatic rather than economic reasons.

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