Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
USADreamliner
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:10 pm

Aerolineas Argentinas will start EZE-LIS from Jan 5th?

I read it on wikipedia, so, I don't trust the info. They also say something about Milan, Paris and Los Angeles.
Is it true?

I guess it can be a good tactic, staying away from LAN playground (Americas), and focus on Europe.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5065
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:37 pm

IMO, easy to see TP flying OPO-EZE or LIS-EZE than AR !

EZE is at least 50% of Argentina GDP and for sure the strong O&D is to Spain. An OPO operation can be very interesting as it allows access to Vigo and other frontier areas.

Felipe
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:13 pm

Maybe they could have an MD-80 fly MAD-LIS. At some point they had Mad Dogs and 737s stationed at MAD for some hops to PAR and LON, didn't they?
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3230
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
They also say something about Milan, Paris and Los Angeles

Did AR already solve the troubles on EZE-JFK?
With that being said, how may LAX be a new possibility for AR?
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 948
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:17 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
At some point they had Mad Dogs and 737s stationed at MAD for some hops to PAR and LON, didn't they?

Yes, using 5th freedom. Now these operations are carried out by sister airline Air Comet.

As you point out, it would be way more sensible to fly EZE-MAD-LIS unless there are more than 150 passengers flying from EZE to LIS. Also distances are to take into account. I don't know how many spare frames AR does have to do this but flying near 10000 Kms to two destinations that are only 500 kms apart has to mean a lot of traffic/money.
 
USADreamliner
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 3):
Did AR already solve the troubles on EZE-JFK?

Delta will take charge of the JFK flights.


From Travelvideo.tv:

ARGENTINA
"Tourism grows and generates US$3.2 million
An estimated 1.5 million people will visit Argentina this year and will generate an income of US$3.2 million. It is calculated that foreign tourism will reach approximately 7 million people in ten years.
Aerolineas Argentinas will suspend direct route to NY
Aerolineas Argentinas decided to suspend the flights because of, according to the company, the necessity of programming its flights depending on their profitability. The company, which has currently three flights per week to Miami and another three to New York, will link up these destinations and Delta will take charge of the second one."
 
RJ_Delta
Posts: 1391
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2000 4:17 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:39 pm

Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
I read it on wikipedia, so, I don't trust the info. They also say something about Milan, Paris and Los Angeles.
Is it true?

At this moment, AR has not the capacity to increase its destination, first they need to improve and normalize its routes.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 3):
Did AR already solve the troubles on EZE-JFK?
With that being said, how may LAX be a new possibility for AR?

Not yet. They need more aircraft for its long haul fleet. According the last information from AR, the Argentinian carrier will receive another A343 soon.

For Los Angeles route I think that is only a possibility when AR receives the new A332s.
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:12 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 6):

Not yet. They need more aircraft for its long haul fleet. According the last information from AR, the Argentinian carrier will receive another A343 soon.

Apparently the 2nd A343 is already under C-Check at YUL, if not mistaken.

EZE-JFK will be nonstop again next December, with its classical flight number - AR1300.

Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
Aerolineas Argentinas will start EZE-LIS from Jan 5th?

I read it on wikipedia, so, I don't trust the info. They also say something about Milan, Paris and Los Angeles.
Is it true?

There was lots of bullshit going on at both English and Spanish Wikipedias regarding AR's destinations. Some fellow even added information stating they will start serving BKK and NRT (!). Thus far no expansion plans at AR. They need to get more planes and fix their current network before starting to add new destinations.

Saludos,
Marambio
 
USADreamliner
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting Marambio (Reply 7):
There was lots of bullshit going on at both English and Spanish Wikipedias regarding AR's destinations. Some fellow even added information stating they will start serving BKK and NRT (!)

Plus : Lisbon, Los Angeles, Frankfurt, Milan, Beijing, Shanghai, La Paz and Hong Kong...


But, I know AR is looking to start EZE-CDG nonstop next year.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 5):
Aerolineas Argentinas decided to suspend the flights because of, according to the company, the necessity of programming its flights depending on their profitability. The company, which has currently three flights per week to Miami and another three to New York, will link up these destinations and Delta will take charge of the second one."

So let me get this right... is AR going to enter into a codeshare agreement with DL? Or will this simply be an interlining arrangement?
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3230
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):
is AR going to enter into a codeshare agreement with DL? Or will this simply be an interlining arrangement?

The following source illustrates us the understanding between DL and AR.
Apologies, available in Spanish: http://www.argentour.com/local-cgi/ToForo/index.cgi?msg=1863
Because DL doesn't supply a direct JFK-EZE, the sensible path seems to be JFK-ATL-EZE until AR resumes their direct flights linking such route.
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):

So let me get this right... is AR going to enter into a codeshare agreement with DL? Or will this simply be an interlining arrangement?

I think they signed some sort of SPA, allowing baggage tagging all the way to the final destination and AR selling tickets for DL flights, but no codeshare. Actually, AR has only one codeshare partner, namely TAM Mercosur, on one rute, namely EZE-ASU.

Saludos,
Marambio
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4738
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:46 pm

It's a shame AR will suspend the JFK service. The route doesn't work because they fly it 3 days per week. American has a daily service (777 in Northern summer, and 767 in Northern winter). The service, like everything else about American, is lousy and very utilitarian. AR has poor service too but some competition would be nice. Argentina has a fast growing tour market and another service ex-NY would be nice. Maybe DL or CO will start a flight.
 
RJ_Delta
Posts: 1391
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2000 4:17 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 12):
Maybe DL or CO will start a flight.

There is a possibility that Delta Air Lines will start its flight very soon.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:27 pm

Quoting Marambio (Reply 11):
AR has only one codeshare partner, namely TAM Mercosur, on one rute, namely EZE-ASU

I find it really odd that in these times of global alliances and multi-codeshare partnerships AR does not have more partners. I think they need partners from the U.S., Europe, Brazil and maybe Mexico. This would help them extend their reach even more and could potentially bring added income.

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 13):
There is a possibility that Delta Air Lines will start its flight very soon.

I think the market is there, so if they can do it, they will probably have good results.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3230
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Marambio (Reply 11):
AR has only one codeshare partner, namely TAM Mercosur,

A7 Air Comet on EZE-MAD is marketed as code-share with AR regarding their working relationship in Marsans Group, being also taken into account A7's European destinations: MAD-LGW and MAD-CDG.
I think A7 MAD-FCO has been excluded due AR is offering EZE-FCO.
Regards.
 
USADreamliner
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
I find it really odd that in these times of global alliances and multi-codeshare partnerships AR does not have more partners.

Maybe because AR re-joined IATA recently, that makes things easier.

They codeshare with TAM Mercosur and Air Comet. They also have something with Avianca.
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2643
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:30 pm

I think part of the reason why AR has no codeshare "friends" goes back to when AR was grounded in 2001, and right before they were bought out by the Marsans group, they used to codeshare with quite a few carriers like Iberia (of course), Malaysia Airlines, and Mexicana de Aviacion to name a few. All of these carriers were pretty much a$$ed-out, after AR defaulted on the payments for all the seats they had sold on-board these partner operated flights. In fact, I believe that in the case of Mexicana, they never got paid and so the company wrote off this big AR debt as a loss in its annual report. Hence the reason why some airlines don't really wanna do business with AR.

 Smile LatinPlane
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:26 pm

We should really thank the Spanish owners for giving AR a bad name!!

 box   duck 
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:44 pm

I doubt AR has the financial strength to engage in a major expansion. It still has a weak balance sheet. AR would need new widebody aircraft to expand its network in the United States and Europe. I suppose that daily nonstops to JFK and resuming flights to LAX are AR's first priorities. I assume that AR would start flying to other destinations in Europe before LIS. Nonetheless, the AR may be planning far ahead and considering other destinations around the globe. In this context, LIS, more Spanish cities, and destinations in other parts of the world, such as TLV, JNB, NRT, HKG, and PVG could all be candidates. I remember a discussion on this forum in February 2006 when AR formally applied for permission to start flights from EZE to TLV. Needless to say, AR isn't likely to start flying to LIS, TLV or East Asia in the near future.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:49 pm

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 16):
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
I find it really odd that in these times of global alliances and multi-codeshare partnerships AR does not have more partners.

Maybe because AR re-joined IATA recently, that makes things easier.

AR has always been an IATA member. What are you referring to? They may not have been a very active participant in recent years but they didn't cancel their membership to the best of my knowledge.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 19):
I doubt AR has the financial strength to engage in a major expansion. It still has a weak balance sheet. AR would need new widebody aircraft to expand its network in the United States and Europe.

Actually, Grupo Marsans, who is the parent company of AR and sister airline Air Comet (Spanish) has placed a couple of orders for widebody planes, including A330s and A380s... yes A380s (4 to be exact), of which 2 are slated to go to AR. I would not think that Grupo Marsans lacks financial strength or has a weak balance sheet.
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2514
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
Actually, Grupo Marsans, who is the parent company of AR and sister airline Air Comet (Spanish) has placed a couple of orders for widebody planes, including A330s and A380s... yes A380s (4 to be exact), of which 2 are slated to go to AR. I would not think that Grupo Marsans lacks financial strength or has a weak balance sheet.

No orders, just an MOU.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
AR has always been an IATA member. What are you referring to? They may not have been a very active participant in recent years but they didn't cancel their membership to the best of my knowledge.

Yes, but AR's membership was 'suspended', IIRC for 'payment differences'. I think what he's really referring to is BSP (and that membership hasn't been restored).

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 17):
think part of the reason why AR has no codeshare "friends" goes back to when AR was grounded in 2001, and right before they were bought out by the Marsans group, they used to codeshare with quite a few carriers like Iberia (of course), Malaysia Airlines, and Mexicana de Aviacion to name a few. All of these carriers were pretty much a$$ed-out, after AR defaulted on the payments for all the seats they had sold on-board these partner operated flights. In fact, I believe that in the case of Mexicana, they never got paid and so the company wrote off this big AR debt as a loss in its annual report. Hence the reason why some airlines don't really wanna do business with AR.

Smile LatinPlane

Somebody knows their AR history.

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 12):
The route doesn't work because they fly it 3 days per week.

That's utter BS, and you know it.

The flight DOES work but the problem is the plane scheduling is too tight. Why would they be relaunching them instead of completely cancelling it?

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 8):
But, I know AR is looking to start EZE-CDG nonstop next year.

Nope, not even close. AR is not looking at entering premium markets, at the moment.

Quoting Marambio (Reply 7):
Apparently the 2nd A343 is already under C-Check at YUL, if not mistaken.

Correct, but there's yet a due date to be set. AR's is estimating late November, early December.

Gastón - The MD11junkie

[Edited 2007-10-15 22:07:46]
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 13):
There is a possibility that Delta Air Lines will start its flight very soon.

Actually, DL applied for rights for JFK-EZE, using the former UA frequencies, but the DoT awarded them to CO. Let's see this time - it would be nice to have AA facing some actual competition on the route.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 22):

Yes, but AR's membership was 'suspended', IIRC for 'payment differences'. I think what he's really referring to is BSP (and that membership hasn't been restored).

I thought AR's IATA membership was completely restored earlier this year. I'll check this information.

On a sidenote, this suspension was/is a complete pain in the ass not only for the airline but also for passengers. Besides the lack of interline agreements, etc. I remember flying a couple of years ago GRU-EZE on JJ and my flight being over-booked. Whilst looking for alternative carriers, I noticed there was a huge AR A342 leaving for Buenos Aires in less than an hour, so I asked the agent why would he keep on trying with RG and not make things easy and fly AR? "Oh, AR - you remember the problems they had some years ago? Well, they still got issues with IATA, so we're not allowed to borrow seats from them..."

Saludos,
Marambio
 
USADreamliner
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 22):
Nope, not even close. AR is not looking at entering premium markets, at the moment.

About Paris, Esteban Maccari said (about 4 weeks ago or so) that AR was looking to start nonstop EZE-CDG in 2008... but, well, they promised so many things in the past.


About AR/DL: "Tanto Aerolíneas Argentinas como Delta, aceptarán los boletos emitidos por una u otra compañía. Esto permitirá, por ejemplo, que un pasajero utilice los servicios de cualquiera de las dos empresas cuando una de ellas no pueda brindarle un horario o frecuencia acorde a sus necesidades."
http://www.aerolineas.com.ar/ar/inde...idi=es&secc=1&subs=5&cmbPrensa=370


About AR/IATA: " Después de siete años, y dentro de la estrategia de reposicionamiento de la Compañía a nivel mundial, Aerolíneas Argentinas retorna al seno de la Asociación Internacional de Transporte Aéreo (IATA) al participar de la “63ª Asamblea General Anual”
http://www.aerolineas.com.ar/ar/inde...idi=es&secc=1&subs=5&cmbPrensa=367
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 22):
No orders, just an MOU.

The most recent one yes, but how about the proposed acquisition of A330s that was announced several weeks/months ago? Is that still an M.O.U. too or are those firm orders?
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2514
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 24):
About Paris, Esteban Maccari said (about 4 weeks ago or so) that AR was looking to start nonstop EZE-CDG in 2008... but, well, they promised so many things in the past.

Esteban Maccari is just a seat-holder. I know him, and he's the most useless dumb person I've ever seen. He's just a media person - whatever he says needs to be taken with tweezers and looked at thoroughly. I, for a fact from OPS, know that there's no plan or not even a dream from starting CDG (at least for now, I'll confirm it tonight).

Gastón - The MD11junkie

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AAEK192, Baidu [Spider], Blerg, COEWRNJ, DCA350, gunsontheroof, martynking, Momo1435, mooseofspruce, NLDru, nm2582, One11, propchaser, Qantas737, qf789, straat, tomcat, TWAL1011 and 190 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos