Aerolineas Argentinas will start EZE-LIS from Jan 5th?
I read it on wikipedia, so, I don't trust the info. They also say something about Milan, Paris and Los Angeles.
Is it true?
I guess it can be a good tactic, staying away from LAN playground (Americas), and focus on Europe.
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
IMO, easy to see TP flying OPO-EZE or LIS-EZE than AR !
EZE is at least 50% of Argentina GDP and for sure the strong O&D is to Spain. An OPO operation can be very interesting as it allows access to Vigo and other frontier areas.
Felipe
EZE is at least 50% of Argentina GDP and for sure the strong O&D is to Spain. An OPO operation can be very interesting as it allows access to Vigo and other frontier areas.
Felipe
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
Maybe they could have an MD-80 fly MAD-LIS. At some point they had Mad Dogs and 737s stationed at MAD for some hops to PAR and LON, didn't they?
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter): They also say something about Milan, Paris and Los Angeles |
Did AR already solve the troubles on EZE-JFK?
With that being said, how may LAX be a new possibility for AR?
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2): At some point they had Mad Dogs and 737s stationed at MAD for some hops to PAR and LON, didn't they? |
Yes, using 5th freedom. Now these operations are carried out by sister airline Air Comet.
As you point out, it would be way more sensible to fly EZE-MAD-LIS unless there are more than 150 passengers flying from EZE to LIS. Also distances are to take into account. I don't know how many spare frames AR does have to do this but flying near 10000 Kms to two destinations that are only 500 kms apart has to mean a lot of traffic/money.
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- USADreamliner
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 3): Did AR already solve the troubles on EZE-JFK? |
Delta will take charge of the JFK flights.
From Travelvideo.tv:
ARGENTINA
"Tourism grows and generates US$3.2 million
An estimated 1.5 million people will visit Argentina this year and will generate an income of US$3.2 million. It is calculated that foreign tourism will reach approximately 7 million people in ten years.
Aerolineas Argentinas will suspend direct route to NY
Aerolineas Argentinas decided to suspend the flights because of, according to the company, the necessity of programming its flights depending on their profitability. The company, which has currently three flights per week to Miami and another three to New York, will link up these destinations and Delta will take charge of the second one."
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter): I read it on wikipedia, so, I don't trust the info. They also say something about Milan, Paris and Los Angeles. Is it true? |
At this moment, AR has not the capacity to increase its destination, first they need to improve and normalize its routes.
| Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 3): Did AR already solve the troubles on EZE-JFK? With that being said, how may LAX be a new possibility for AR? |
Not yet. They need more aircraft for its long haul fleet. According the last information from AR, the Argentinian carrier will receive another A343 soon.
For Los Angeles route I think that is only a possibility when AR receives the new A332s.
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 6): Not yet. They need more aircraft for its long haul fleet. According the last information from AR, the Argentinian carrier will receive another A343 soon. |
Apparently the 2nd A343 is already under C-Check at YUL, if not mistaken.
EZE-JFK will be nonstop again next December, with its classical flight number - AR1300.
| Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter): Aerolineas Argentinas will start EZE-LIS from Jan 5th? I read it on wikipedia, so, I don't trust the info. They also say something about Milan, Paris and Los Angeles. Is it true? |
There was lots of bullshit going on at both English and Spanish Wikipedias regarding AR's destinations. Some fellow even added information stating they will start serving BKK and NRT (!). Thus far no expansion plans at AR. They need to get more planes and fix their current network before starting to add new destinations.
Saludos,
Marambio
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- USADreamliner
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting Marambio (Reply 7): There was lots of bullshit going on at both English and Spanish Wikipedias regarding AR's destinations. Some fellow even added information stating they will start serving BKK and NRT (!) |
Plus : Lisbon, Los Angeles, Frankfurt, Milan, Beijing, Shanghai, La Paz and Hong Kong...
But, I know AR is looking to start EZE-CDG nonstop next year.
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 5): Aerolineas Argentinas decided to suspend the flights because of, according to the company, the necessity of programming its flights depending on their profitability. The company, which has currently three flights per week to Miami and another three to New York, will link up these destinations and Delta will take charge of the second one." |
So let me get this right... is AR going to enter into a codeshare agreement with DL? Or will this simply be an interlining arrangement?
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9): is AR going to enter into a codeshare agreement with DL? Or will this simply be an interlining arrangement? |
The following source illustrates us the understanding between DL and AR.
Apologies, available in Spanish: http://www.argentour.com/local-cgi/ToForo/index.cgi?msg=1863
Because DL doesn't supply a direct JFK-EZE, the sensible path seems to be JFK-ATL-EZE until AR resumes their direct flights linking such route.
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9): So let me get this right... is AR going to enter into a codeshare agreement with DL? Or will this simply be an interlining arrangement? |
I think they signed some sort of SPA, allowing baggage tagging all the way to the final destination and AR selling tickets for DL flights, but no codeshare. Actually, AR has only one codeshare partner, namely TAM Mercosur, on one rute, namely EZE-ASU.
Saludos,
Marambio
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- ContinentalEWR
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
It's a shame AR will suspend the JFK service. The route doesn't work because they fly it 3 days per week. American has a daily service (777 in Northern summer, and 767 in Northern winter). The service, like everything else about American, is lousy and very utilitarian. AR has poor service too but some competition would be nice. Argentina has a fast growing tour market and another service ex-NY would be nice. Maybe DL or CO will start a flight.
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 12): Maybe DL or CO will start a flight. |
There is a possibility that Delta Air Lines will start its flight very soon.
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting Marambio (Reply 11): AR has only one codeshare partner, namely TAM Mercosur, on one rute, namely EZE-ASU |
I find it really odd that in these times of global alliances and multi-codeshare partnerships AR does not have more partners. I think they need partners from the U.S., Europe, Brazil and maybe Mexico. This would help them extend their reach even more and could potentially bring added income.
| Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 13): There is a possibility that Delta Air Lines will start its flight very soon. |
I think the market is there, so if they can do it, they will probably have good results.
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting Marambio (Reply 11): AR has only one codeshare partner, namely TAM Mercosur, |
A7 Air Comet on EZE-MAD is marketed as code-share with AR regarding their working relationship in Marsans Group, being also taken into account A7's European destinations: MAD-LGW and MAD-CDG.
I think A7 MAD-FCO has been excluded due AR is offering EZE-FCO.
Regards.
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- USADreamliner
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14): I find it really odd that in these times of global alliances and multi-codeshare partnerships AR does not have more partners. |
Maybe because AR re-joined IATA recently, that makes things easier.
They codeshare with TAM Mercosur and Air Comet. They also have something with Avianca.
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- LatinPlane
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
I think part of the reason why AR has no codeshare "friends" goes back to when AR was grounded in 2001, and right before they were bought out by the Marsans group, they used to codeshare with quite a few carriers like Iberia (of course), Malaysia Airlines, and Mexicana de Aviacion to name a few. All of these carriers were pretty much a$$ed-out, after AR defaulted on the payments for all the seats they had sold on-board these partner operated flights. In fact, I believe that in the case of Mexicana, they never got paid and so the company wrote off this big AR debt as a loss in its annual report. Hence the reason why some airlines don't really wanna do business with AR.
LatinPlane
LatinPlaneRE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
We should really thank the Spanish owners for giving AR a bad name!!
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
I doubt AR has the financial strength to engage in a major expansion. It still has a weak balance sheet. AR would need new widebody aircraft to expand its network in the United States and Europe. I suppose that daily nonstops to JFK and resuming flights to LAX are AR's first priorities. I assume that AR would start flying to other destinations in Europe before LIS. Nonetheless, the AR may be planning far ahead and considering other destinations around the globe. In this context, LIS, more Spanish cities, and destinations in other parts of the world, such as TLV, JNB, NRT, HKG, and PVG could all be candidates. I remember a discussion on this forum in February 2006 when AR formally applied for permission to start flights from EZE to TLV. Needless to say, AR isn't likely to start flying to LIS, TLV or East Asia in the near future.
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- Viscount724
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 16): Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14): I find it really odd that in these times of global alliances and multi-codeshare partnerships AR does not have more partners. Maybe because AR re-joined IATA recently, that makes things easier. |
AR has always been an IATA member. What are you referring to? They may not have been a very active participant in recent years but they didn't cancel their membership to the best of my knowledge.
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting IAD380 (Reply 19): I doubt AR has the financial strength to engage in a major expansion. It still has a weak balance sheet. AR would need new widebody aircraft to expand its network in the United States and Europe. |
Actually, Grupo Marsans, who is the parent company of AR and sister airline Air Comet (Spanish) has placed a couple of orders for widebody planes, including A330s and A380s... yes A380s (4 to be exact), of which 2 are slated to go to AR. I would not think that Grupo Marsans lacks financial strength or has a weak balance sheet.
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- MD11junkie
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
Actually, Grupo Marsans, who is the parent company of AR and sister airline Air Comet (Spanish) has placed a couple of orders for widebody planes, including A330s and A380s... yes A380s (4 to be exact), of which 2 are slated to go to AR. I would not think that Grupo Marsans lacks financial strength or has a weak balance sheet. |
No orders, just an MOU.
| Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
AR has always been an IATA member. What are you referring to? They may not have been a very active participant in recent years but they didn't cancel their membership to the best of my knowledge. |
Yes, but AR's membership was 'suspended', IIRC for 'payment differences'. I think what he's really referring to is BSP (and that membership hasn't been restored).
| Quoting Latinplane (Reply 17):
think part of the reason why AR has no codeshare "friends" goes back to when AR was grounded in 2001, and right before they were bought out by the Marsans group, they used to codeshare with quite a few carriers like Iberia (of course), Malaysia Airlines, and Mexicana de Aviacion to name a few. All of these carriers were pretty much a$$ed-out, after AR defaulted on the payments for all the seats they had sold on-board these partner operated flights. In fact, I believe that in the case of Mexicana, they never got paid and so the company wrote off this big AR debt as a loss in its annual report. Hence the reason why some airlines don't really wanna do business with AR. Smile LatinPlane |
Somebody knows their AR history.
| Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 12):
The route doesn't work because they fly it 3 days per week. |
That's utter BS, and you know it.
The flight DOES work but the problem is the plane scheduling is too tight. Why would they be relaunching them instead of completely cancelling it?
| Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 8):
But, I know AR is looking to start EZE-CDG nonstop next year. |
Nope, not even close. AR is not looking at entering premium markets, at the moment.
| Quoting Marambio (Reply 7):
Apparently the 2nd A343 is already under C-Check at YUL, if not mistaken. |
Correct, but there's yet a due date to be set. AR's is estimating late November, early December.
Gastón - The MD11junkie
[Edited 2007-10-15 22:07:46]
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 13): There is a possibility that Delta Air Lines will start its flight very soon. |
Actually, DL applied for rights for JFK-EZE, using the former UA frequencies, but the DoT awarded them to CO. Let's see this time - it would be nice to have AA facing some actual competition on the route.
| Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 22): Yes, but AR's membership was 'suspended', IIRC for 'payment differences'. I think what he's really referring to is BSP (and that membership hasn't been restored). |
I thought AR's IATA membership was completely restored earlier this year. I'll check this information.
On a sidenote, this suspension was/is a complete pain in the ass not only for the airline but also for passengers. Besides the lack of interline agreements, etc. I remember flying a couple of years ago GRU-EZE on JJ and my flight being over-booked. Whilst looking for alternative carriers, I noticed there was a huge AR A342 leaving for Buenos Aires in less than an hour, so I asked the agent why would he keep on trying with RG and not make things easy and fly AR? "Oh, AR - you remember the problems they had some years ago? Well, they still got issues with IATA, so we're not allowed to borrow seats from them..."
Saludos,
Marambio
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- USADreamliner
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 22): Nope, not even close. AR is not looking at entering premium markets, at the moment. |
About Paris, Esteban Maccari said (about 4 weeks ago or so) that AR was looking to start nonstop EZE-CDG in 2008... but, well, they promised so many things in the past.
About AR/DL: "Tanto Aerolíneas Argentinas como Delta, aceptarán los boletos emitidos por una u otra compañía. Esto permitirá, por ejemplo, que un pasajero utilice los servicios de cualquiera de las dos empresas cuando una de ellas no pueda brindarle un horario o frecuencia acorde a sus necesidades."
http://www.aerolineas.com.ar/ar/inde...idi=es&secc=1&subs=5&cmbPrensa=370
About AR/IATA: " Después de siete años, y dentro de la estrategia de reposicionamiento de la Compañía a nivel mundial, Aerolíneas Argentinas retorna al seno de la Asociación Internacional de Transporte Aéreo (IATA) al participar de la “63ª Asamblea General Anual”
http://www.aerolineas.com.ar/ar/inde...idi=es&secc=1&subs=5&cmbPrensa=367
RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 22): No orders, just an MOU. |
The most recent one yes, but how about the proposed acquisition of A330s that was announced several weeks/months ago? Is that still an M.O.U. too or are those firm orders?
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- MD11junkie
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas To Lisbon?
| Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 24): About Paris, Esteban Maccari said (about 4 weeks ago or so) that AR was looking to start nonstop EZE-CDG in 2008... but, well, they promised so many things in the past. |
Esteban Maccari is just a seat-holder. I know him, and he's the most useless dumb person I've ever seen. He's just a media person - whatever he says needs to be taken with tweezers and looked at thoroughly. I, for a fact from OPS, know that there's no plan or not even a dream from starting CDG (at least for now, I'll confirm it tonight).
Gastón - The MD11junkie
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