boeingbus
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Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:25 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSL147284320071014

"According to our information, the management of Airbus fears a new delay in deliveries," the newspaper said noting that a plan had been put in place to try catch up. "In spite of that, the plane maker is not certain to be able to deliver the 13 planes promised in 2008," the paper said.


So who's getting A380's in 2008? I wonder who will be affected by this...
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
Rbgso
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:30 pm

So what is wrong now? Seems like they've had enough time to work out the bugs in the manufacuring process. I thought they had at least 13 frames assembled and ready for final fitting. Anyone have any further information?
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:33 pm

A delay would probably be down to the production certificate they are yet to receive. Without it means they have to test each aircraft individually to get it certified which takes time.
 
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moo
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:36 pm

Ahh this sounds like another take on Enders comments earlier in the week.
 
brendows
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
So who's getting A380's in 2008?

SQ, EK and QF.

Quoting Moo (Reply 3):
Ahh this sounds like another take on Enders comments earlier in the week.

A "spiced" up version of it that is  checkmark 
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:12 pm

I am extremly confused by this comments of Mr. Enders. I assume that a manager makes such comments well considered and with a specific objective. Is he realy preparing us (and the shareholders, the clients, the media) for the next delay of the programme? 13 machines in 2013 would actually mean something like one A380 per month. Is that realistic compared to the current progress (I am afraid I know the answer already)?

Any news, comments etc would be highly appreciated.
 
cloud4000
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:19 pm

Were there any plans by Airbus to up the production rate to play catch-up?
Boston, USA
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:26 pm

What did Enders say earlier in the week? And what has been going on with the 380 program in the past year. I would have thought that Airbus's tarmac would be lined with tens of 380s by this time just waiting for the first delivery. Any info on actual production statistics at present?
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:42 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):
What did Enders say earlier in the week?

you can see it here: A380 Meeting Delivery Deadlines-biggest Challenge (by FWI747 Oct 13 2007 in Civil Aviation)

"Airbus head Thomas Enders acknowledged in an interview to be published Monday that the delay-plagued European plane maker would continue having difficulty meeting future delivery deadlines for its A380 jetliner."
 
art
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:50 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 2):
A delay would probably be down to the production certificate they are yet to receive. Without it means they have to test each aircraft individually to get it certified which takes time.

How much time can it take to test the birds once they are assembled? Even if it takes time to test them, 4 weeks per aircraft seems excessive to the uninitiated such as me. Unless the paperwork for individual aircraft has to be done at the speed at which the issuing authorities function and those authorities function very, very slowly.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting Art (Reply 9):
How much time can it take to test the birds once they are assembled? Even if it takes time to test them, 4 weeks per aircraft seems excessive to the uninitiated such as me. Unless the paperwork for individual aircraft has to be done at the speed at which the issuing authorities function and those authorities function very, very slowly.

Functional testing and certification testing are very different animals. Testing the systems of an A380 to ensure they work shouldn't take 4 weeks. Showing that everything conforms to type certificate, which is what you need for the airworthiness certificate, could easily take 4 weeks because it's a lot more about paperwork and traceability than it is about actual function.

Tom.
 
boeing767-300
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:08 am

more delays... what is the issue now.

The more this goes on the more and more admiration I have for Joe Sutter and his team.

747-100 first flew March 69' certified December 1969 and 90+ delivered in first year. This A380 fiasco really puts it into perspective.

Sometimes I really believe engineers were smarter back then than they are now given the computing and resources available today  wink 
 
WestJetYQQ
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Big shocker! That one sounds familiar.  Wink
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
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PW100
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
747-100 first flew March 69' certified December 1969 and 90+ delivered in first year. This A380 fiasco really puts it into perspective.

Well, SQ [actually Mr Bey Soo Khiang, SIA executive vice president - Operations and Service] was a little nicer to Airbus in his interview with Flight:
"The delays are a fact of life - we cannot wish them away. When you put things in perspective, the A380 is a brand-new aircraft from paper to reality, and a delay of 18-24 months, as we have suffered, doesn't compare badly with other aircraft types, which we have experienced before."

"For example, the 747-400 was delayed by almost 18 months as well, and that is just a derivative, not a brand-new aircraft. From that perspective Airbus will have done wonderfully well if there was no delay. Given the situation, there is nothing much to really complain about."

Full interview on Flight



Back to topic:
* Airbus Managers seem to be happy with the revised production schedule:
* 13 aircraft in 2008, 25 in 2009, steady rate of four per month by the end of 2009;
* first 25 aircraft will involve substantial amounts of ‘hand-built’ processes;
* by the end of 2009 production cycle will be truly industrialised;
* it has been possible to begin moving people onto the A350 and A400M programmes;
Full interview on Flight
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zeke
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:20 pm

In today paper Airbus sought to clarify the news reports of Enders comments..

What Enders was reported to have said :

"The A380 is not a luxury, it is a necessity. That's why increasing A380 production to meet demand remains our biggest challenge for the next two years".....Tom Enders

"Everything we have accomplished so far gives us the confidence, the courage and the means to face the big ramp-up in 2008 and 2009" .....Tom Enders

"We have confidence, but in life, nothing is guaranteed" .....Tom Enders

That was reported as "more delays"

What Leahy was reported to have said by way of clarification :

"There are no delays; that is a misunderstanding" ....John Leahy.

Asked if Airbus was reaffirming its 2008 delivery target of 13 aircraft,

"That is our plan and we are on target. We have said it is a challenge, of course, but we are on track." .... John Leahy

Full article http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1015/breaking86.htm similar version of the same story was printed here in HKG.
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scouseflyer
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:24 pm

They ought to be on target, as far back as June the next 4 planes were ahead of schedule in the rewiring and MSN005 has been seen recently in a painted up state at XFW.
 
Danny
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:25 pm

Yet another "delay" created on a.net forums.  Yeah sure

Quoting Zeke (Reply 14):
"The A380 is not a luxury, it is a necessity. That's why increasing A380 production to meet demand remains our biggest challenge for the next two years".....Tom Enders



Quoting Zeke (Reply 14):
That was reported as "more delays"

Exactly Zeke.
 
col
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:26 pm

I would be very surprised if Airbus does not deliver the full allocation of 380's next year. I think Enders is being cautious due to past history, and the press are being the press. Is the PW/GE engined version certified?
 
zak
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:30 pm

i'll go ahead to get bashed: i am expecting airbus to deliver more than scheduled, if customers will accept earlier than scheduled delivery, from mid 2008 on.
10=2
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting Col (Reply 17):
I would be very surprised if Airbus does not deliver the full allocation of 380's next year.

and possibly squeeze in a coupel more - there's also some of the test frames that will be refitted and sold on (to EY I think) and they're not in the 13 for next year.

Interesting though that WingedMigrator (the expert on these matters) mentioned earlier today that this week's parts convoy has yet to take place?
 
mham001
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:47 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 14):
"We have confidence, but in life, nothing is guaranteed" .....Tom Enders

That was reported as "more delays"

Yet more disinformation by Zeke.

The article is using "unidentified sources", not the statements of Mr Enders.
 
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zeke
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:01 pm

Quoting Col (Reply 17):
Is the PW/GE engined version certified?

No, that is route proving at the moment, expected to be certified in December.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 19):
and possibly squeeze in a coupel more - there's also some of the test frames that will be refitted and sold on (to EY I think) and they're not in the 13 for next year.

Got a feeling that the 4 test airframes that were bound for EY after conversion will now be going to AR, so we might get to see the A380 in EZE and MAD and other destinations replacing the 742/744.

Interesting to see John Leahy in the press recently saying he thinks to have close to 30 firm A380 aircraft signed up this year, and is in talks with "Air India, Japan's All Nippon Airways and Cathay Pacific"

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/10/15/afx4218968.html

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 19):
Interesting though that WingedMigrator (the expert on these matters) mentioned earlier today that this week's parts convoy has yet to take place?

The website says next convoy date unknown (translated with google)

http://72.14.203.104/translate_c?hl=...//www.igg.fr/&prev=/language_tools
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speedygonzales
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:02 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 14):
"We have confidence, but in life, nothing is guaranteed" .....Tom Enders

That was reported as "more delays"

We have a saying in Norway that is "to make a feather into five chickens". Guess what the press did here  Smile
Ignorance kills. :tombstone:
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:34 pm

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
Sometimes I really believe engineers were smarter back then than they are now given the computing and resources available today

Back then, they didn't have to deal with IFE. Until you've tried to certify an IFE system from scratch and prove than its software will not interfere with the basic airplane functionality, you have no idea of the complications and pain.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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zeke
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RE: Possible A380 Delivery Delays In 2008

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 20):

Yet more disinformation by Zeke.

The article is using "unidentified sources", not the statements of Mr Enders.

I beg you pardon, where do you get "unidentified sources" from, which article are you referring to ? not the one I linked in my post ?

from the article I was referring to ...

"The A380 is not a luxury, it is a necessity. That's why increasing A380 production to meet demand remains our biggest challenge for the next two years,"Airbus chief executive Tom Enders told a crowd of airline industry guests and journalists.

"Everything we have accomplished so far gives us the confidence, the courage and the means to face the big ramp-up in 2008 and 2009," he said.

He refused to rule out further delays, telling reporters: "We have confidence, but in life, nothing is guaranteed". "

from http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1015/breaking86.htm

if you are referring to the thread starter, I believe something was lost in translation by the Reuters article from what was originally said in Journal du Dimanche http://www.lejdd.fr/cmc/economie/200...-il-de-nouveaux-retards_63976.html

Poor translation of the paragraph is as follows, it is not quoting an "unidentified sources", the parts of the Reuters article that are in quotes are not statements by people, but a translation of the JDD article :

e.g. original French version from JDD http://www.lejdd.fr/cmc/economie/200...-il-de-nouveaux-retards_63976.html

Malgré cela, l'avionneur n'est pas certain de pouvoir livrer les 13 avions promis en 2008 (5 à Singapore, 4 à Emirates, 4 à Qantas).

ended up in the Reuters article as
"In spite of that, the plane maker is not certain to be able to deliver the 13 planes promised in 2008," the paper said.

That I guess makes you think they are quoting someone, where in fact they quoting the text of the original article.

Course translation of the whole paragraph ...

Despite this, the manufacturer is not certain to be able to deliver the promised 13 aircraft in 2008 (five in Singapore, four to Emirates, Qantas 4). The CEO of Airbus, Thomas Enders, personally following the case. He had said in July that the A380 was not finished business. A very big challenge is still before us, in an interview to be published tomorrow in the weekly Der Spiegel. It is only when we have managed to keep our production forecasts for the next two years that the A380 program will really overcome obstacles."

The original JDD article also had the following ....

Contacté hier par le JDD, Louis Gallois, PDG d'EADS, dément toute perspective de nouveaux retards: "C'est un appareil complexe à réaliser, mais nous sommes actuellement en ligne avec le calendrier de livraison. Les clients sont d'ailleurs informés de l'état de leurs appareils chaque semaine."

Contacted yesterday by the JDD, Louis Gallois, CEO of EADS, denies any prospect of further delays: "It's a project complicated to achieve, but we are now in line with the delivery schedule. Customers are also advised the state of their aircraft each week"

which ended up in the Reuters article as

The Journal du Dimanche story also included a quote from EADS Chief Executive Louis Gallois saying the delivery schedule was on track.

"It's a difficult operation to carry out, but we are currently on track with the delivery calendar. Moreover, the clients are informed of the state of their planes each week."

The difference between "denies any prospect of further delays" and "delivery schedule was on track" I think you would agree is vast.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News

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