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luv2cattlecall
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:46 pm

Well if they want their stock to go north of $10 (aka 1 or 2 Euros in the near future  Angry ) what they need to do is put David N. back as CEO and use the return trip for drug runs...they can just claim it's his ADHD meds!



Disclaimer: I have ADD, so it's p/c for me to say that.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3887
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 17):
Wisconsin so fourth before they should look to Latin America, IMHO

B/C maybe, they know that all those saturated markets will make less money with tickets sold at $49 when they can charge $250 and up to Latin America.

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 22):
Also has competition from CO, AA, and AV.

AA is not on the route, but they do have some transfer pax trough MIA.

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 22):
MCO-BOG would only pit B6 against Avianca

AV does not fly to MCO, in fact, that route would pit B6 with AA, that carries probably 75% of all Colombia-MCO traffic.

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 22):
Avianca would be the only competitor on FLL-BOG and AA on MIA-BOG of course.

What? Where do you get your facts from? AV flies to both MIA (2x daily) and FLL (1x daily), as does LAN, with three weeklies on the BOG-MIA route.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 28):
ATL-BOG makes complete sense for DL to operate either with a 752 or 738 and they can codeshare with AV and vice versa as well as DL expanding JFK-South America.

You do mean JFK-BOG...

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 29):
Colombia has finally discovered protecting Avianca is not the first purpose of its aviation national interest.

Well, Colombia discovered that some years ago. But yes, the skies are becoming more liberal. And AV has the tools to compete, as they are able to offer good deals too.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 32):
Since Jetblue goes Mx in El Salvador, they could potentially sell seats 3/4 of the way to BOG and wouldn't be a total loss to the company

Well, if you look into a map, it would be pretty stupid, BOG is not 3/4s of the way to El Salvador, it is a huge detour.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 43):
Both runways are around 12,000ft long, which normally should be enough to avoid too hefty payload restrictions on an A320 headed to JFK.

Yes, but not when taking off at 2600m (about 8000ft) above sea level.


My apologies for thinking that the Colombian government had a word on US airline frequencies. It will be interesting, b/c i think AV and AA will do everything they can to kick NK and B6 out of their markets, and, if they really want to, AV can offer very very good fares. Don´t know about AA.

The beneficiaries, of course the travelers on the Colombia-Sotuh Florida market.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 21):
The flight mileage between JFK-BOG is 2480 - within a loaded A320 range. Why is JetBlue adamant about starting Florida-BOG rather than service from its largest hub?



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 43):
Both runways are around 12,000ft long, which normally should be enough to avoid too hefty payload restrictions on an A320 headed to JFK.

The wings don't work near as well at takeoff speeds at 8000 feet as they do at ground level. The limiting factor at high altitude is most often the ability of the brakes to stop an aircraft at the takeoff speeds necessary. Runway length is not the limiting factor for a narrowbody aircraft taking off from a high altitude airport with long runways; wheel speed and braking are the limiting factors.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
The DOT gave US rights to fly PHL-China, even though US has no experience flying to Asia and currently doesn't even operate an aircraft capable of flying the route.

Every US carrier that wanted it now has access to China in their future. But the Chinese treaty did not allow a whole lot of depth in the addition of new cities. The DOT will look at how much "depth" each application adds to service levels between the US and Colombia and not just how many carriers fly to BOG.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 26):
Delta is a seasonal carrier that cancels out a large number of frequencies in the Winter.

I hate to break it to you, buddy, but DL has apparently figured out that some of its 330 or so markets don't need service 365 days a year, or even 12 months a year. Their 8.6% operating profit margin just announced today show that they apparently know more about running an airline than you do. What's the operating profit margin for the airline you run?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):
jetBlue and Spirit will get seven frequencies each. There is no question about it. They will also likely get the December and April allocations.

If I didn't know you have been shown to be wrong before, I might give excitted about how certain you are. But your track record shows that apparently you do have a thing or two to learn. So we'll see just who does get what. Unless you have raided the offices of the DOT and planted ideas in the minds of the staffers that work there, you don't have the inside track. The folks at the DOT don't even know what decision they'll make.
 
A388
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 4):
Quoting Azul320 (Reply 2):
Why all the international? What about the rest of the USA!!!!

My thoughts exactly.

Maybe because it's an untapped market for low cost airlines? It looks like we will be seeing low cost airlines entering the Caribbean and South America in the coming years. It was bound to happen if you ask me.

Like others have said here already, Latin America is a very lucrative market that up until now was dominated by AA in particular after PA and EA went bankrupt. I think UA at one point was also expanding in South America but eventually things didn't work out for them. Please correct me on this.

A388 

[Edited 2007-10-16 19:07:50]
 
N1120A
Posts: 26933
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Azul320 (Reply 2):
Why all the international? What about the rest of the USA!!!!

Because international flights sell for more money.

Quoting Azul320 (Reply 10):


Think Barger's got the hots for international? Maybe some 330-200s to Europe some day?

Or perhaps 787-8s  Wink

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 17):
I don't really know about this. There are so many markets in the United States they haven't tapped into, like Michigan, Wisconsin so fourth before they should look to Latin America,

Why? By going to Columbia, jetBlue can charge a hefty premium over what they charge for a route of similar length in the US.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 20):
Does the capacity an airline plans to offer have any influence on the application? E.g. DL applying for 757 service (184 seats) vs B6 A320 (150 seats).

Not really. It is still mainline jet service.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):

B6's bigger weakness is that both they and Spirit are applying for the same route. That would be a bigger hindrance, though it's still possible both will win.

JetBlue has more credibility that Spirit, as they are a far more open company and are better known.

Quoting Super Em (Reply 24):


Maybe they want to see how it does from Florida and then expand it to JFK. Plus you know how it is with the Carribbean and South America with the bags. Doubt that plane will go out 150 with all the bags.

Then they limit the bags. Besides, Columbia is a bit different from the Caribbean nations.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 32):
It's just a shame Jetblue can't get DirectTv outside the lower 48 states.

True, though their expanded IFE product does work.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):

An A320 can't make it to Bogota from JFK profitably.

That depends on how well they can deal with the braking. Remember too that BOG-JFK doesn't deal with the same kind of winds that LGB-JFK does.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 21):
The flight mileage between JFK-BOG is 2480 - within a loaded A320 range. Why is JetBlue adamant about starting Florida-BOG rather than service from its largest hub?

As a reference, AV usually utilizes the 762 on BOG-JFK.
The comfortable range of the Airbus A320-200 fully packed is 2615 nm. Other 320 versions are getting better performances as shown on the A/C data section on airliners.net homepage.
I'm not aware about the accurate range for the 320 deployed by B6 and it really should be taken into account the payload restrictions due to altitude in BOG that have been previously discussed.
In other point of view, those passengers coming from Colombia on B6 can fit better connections in South Florida than JFK: LGB, OAK, RIC and IAD, among others.
If B6 cares connections from Colombia, these destinations don't make much sense through JFK due to the backtracked operations.
 
Avianca
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 55):
As a reference, AV usually utilizes the 762 on BOG-JFK.

you mean 763 or? BOG-JFK is the traditional 763 route for Avianca since years
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 51):
Well, if you look into a map, it would be pretty stupid, BOG is not 3/4s of the way to El Salvador, it is a huge detour.

So in text...El Salvador only means one city huh...I've never heard which one, but there sure are more than one El Salvadors in the world, especially down south.

Guess you're not as smart as you think.
 
Southamerica
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 56):
you mean 763 or? BOG-JFK is the traditional 763 route for Avianca since years

Actually it isn't. Ever since MAD started to get the 763s more frequently, JFK is seeing the 762s quite often. This is not an absolute thing, but BOG-JFK isn't the all-763 route it used to be.

SA.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 52):
If I didn't know you have been shown to be wrong before, I might give excitted about how certain you are. But your track record shows that apparently you do have a thing or two to learn. So we'll see just who does get what. Unless you have raided the offices of the DOT and planted ideas in the minds of the staffers that work there, you don't have the inside track. The folks at the DOT don't even know what decision they'll make.
Actually, my track record is pretty good, especially at predicting where DOT will allocate competitive route authorities/slots, such as China, DCA, Cancun, etc. I've been following them for a decade, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to read the obvious patterns that DOT uses in granting these authorities. In the Colombia situation, we have carriers competing not for routes, but for frequencies that can be freely used. It is in the DOT's interest to open up these slots to as many airlines as reasonably possible, and the exact routes airlines are proposing play much a less role here than they do in China slots. After jetBlue and Spirit get their seven slots each, which they in all likelihood will, it will come down to seeing where the other seven will go. Given the DOT's sometimes unfair favourable preference towards lower cost or "disadvantaged" carriers, it is reasonable to foresee them going to Spirit or jetBlue, not Delta or Continental. I could very well be wrong, but that's my prediction and I am entitled to it. It's unfortunate that you are never able to participate in a lucid conversation without bringing in a biased and arrogant tone. If you feel my opinion is incorrect, which you are obviously entitled to, then tell me why you think it's incorrect, rather than saying I'm wrong and attempting to insult me.

And oh yeah, you spelled "excited" wrong.

[Edited 2007-10-16 22:04:49]
 
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viaggiare
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 59):
It's unfortunate that you are never able to participate in a lucid conversation without bringing in a biased and arrogant tone [...] saying I'm wrong and attempting to insult me.

Is his suggestion that you have a thing or two to learn an insult? I'd say it's more like reaping what you sow. And speaking of arrogance, I can attest to the dismissive and arrogantly presumptuous tone of many of own your posts.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 59):
And oh yeah, you spelled "excited" wrong.

How lame. Looks like a typo to me.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 60):
Is his suggestion that you have a thing or two to learn an insult? I'd say it's more like reaping what you sow. And speaking of arrogance, I can attest to the dismissive and arrogantly presumptuous tone of many of own your posts.

Your more than welcome to your own opinion.
Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 60):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 59):
And oh yeah, you spelled "excited" wrong.

How lame. Looks like a typo to me.

It is, but it's a referrence only WorldTraveller will understand.

[Edited 2007-10-16 23:12:50]
 
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viaggiare
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 61):
It is, but it's a referrence only WorldTraveller will understand.

Certainly you meant reference.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 62):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 61):
It is, but it's a referrence only WorldTraveller will understand.

Certainly you meant reference.

Yup. Thanks for the correction.
 
laca773
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 30):

I take you mean JFK-BOG as they already serve ATL-BOG . That route would be served with a 757 if granted, and DL's codeshare with AV will end sometime soon IIRC.

Yes. Thanks DAK767400ER for the correction.

LACA773
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3887
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 54):
Columbia is a bit different from the Caribbean nations.

Oh please, its ColOmbia, it just tortures me.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 55):
As a reference, AV usually utilizes the 762 on BOG-JFK.

Yes, and also the 763 and the 757.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 57):
So in text...El Salvador only means one city huh...I've never heard which one, but there sure are more than one El Salvadors in the world, especially down south.

Humm....the only sizeable city in latin america that could get service to the US called El Salvador (not Salvador, in Brazil), is the one that is capital of el salvador (and is actually called San Salvador), and the one in which B6 does its maintanace is San Salvador, El Salvador, as the other user posted.

Gues you should stop messing into other people´s issues, let him respond.
 
clo1973
Posts: 155
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 11):
So Delta wants to fly ATL-CLO? Do they have any intention of making money on it? Either they have no clue or this will end up being another Saturday-only expansion.

It seems to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. CLO - USA moved more than 200.000 pax on 2006 (Continental alone transporting 40.000 of those pax), Cali´s airport for second year in a row is experiencing double-digit growth in international traffic (15% on 2006, and 12% YTD August 2007).

DL´s idea of operating as a triangle along with MDE, plus an appropriate mix of schedule, and tariff can certainly make it work
 
Southamerica
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:34 pm

Quoting Clo1973 (Reply 66):
SA)">DL´s idea of operating as a triangle along with MDE, plus an appropriate mix of schedule, and tariff can certainly make it work

When was the last time a foreign carrier operated a successful triangle route within Colombia? Airlines have discovered that running triangle routes to Colombia is extremely expensive, and the cost of operating a tag-on without 5th freedom rights completely brings down the point of having such tag-on in the first place.

I'm not saying ATL-MDE and ATL-CLO wouldn't work. But if anything, I believe that the best way to go is to operate them independently, just how Delta intends to do it.


SA.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting Clo1973 (Reply 66):
It seems to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. CLO - USA moved more than 200.000 pax on 2006

That is not at all significant. That doesn't even come close to filling Cali's two daily flights to Miami. Cali isn't a great international market, as Continental Airlines has learned, and it is one of AA's poorer performing Latin American routes.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:06 pm

Proposed schedules:


Boston-Orlando-Bogotá:
B6 975 BOS 1515-1830 MCO 1930-2255 BOG Daily
B6 976 BOG 2350-0500 MCO 0730-1022 BOS Daily

Dulles-Fort Lauderdale-Bogotá:
B6 981 IAD 1615-1855 FLL 1955-2305 BOG Daily
B6 982 BOG 2359-0450 FLL 0710-0935 IAD Daily
 
skyyblue
Posts: 343
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:34 pm

Any idea on when the awards will be announced? Few weeks? Month?
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 26683
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:58 pm

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 70):
Any idea on when the awards will be announced? Few weeks? Month?

We are likely looking at 4-8 months.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26933
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:00 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 65):

Oh please, its ColOmbia,

Sorry about that. I usually get it right.
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:52 pm

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 57):
So in text...El Salvador only means one city huh...I've never heard which one, but there sure are more than one El Salvadors in the world, especially down south.

Guess you're not as smart as you think.



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 65):
Humm....the only sizeable city in latin america that could get service to the US called El Salvador (not Salvador, in Brazil), is the one that is capital of el salvador (and is actually called San Salvador), and the one in which B6 does its maintanace is San Salvador, El Salvador, as the other user posted.

The country is El Salvador, its capital is San Salvador. There are ZERO cities "down south" that could be considered "well known" that are called El Salvador, not in Argentina, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, or anywhere in Central America. Sure, there could, theoretically, be a city or two named that, but they are not well known by any Latin American. As was pointed out, the secondary city of "Salvador" in Brazil is not the same name.

It irks me when people bunch the Caribbean, Central America, and South America, with dozens of countries and cultures, as "down south," like if it's a small little place south of the United States.

FLY2LIM
 
RCS763AV
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 69):
Dulles-Fort Lauderdale-Bogot�br />B6 981 IAD 1615-1855 FLL 1955-2305 BOG Daily
B6 982 BOG 2359-0450 FLL 0710-0935 IAD Daily

The schedules for the return flgihts form BOG actually suck. No one will like a 4:50am arrival to FLL, to try and get a hotel or drive to Orlando, tired from a flight. The have to change it to an early morning departure (6:00am at least). AV will have the edge here, schedule.wise.

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 73):

Welcome to my respected users list.
 
danimarroquin
Posts: 256
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:40 am

well , is about time that airlines focus on that route because the colombian community in orlando is getting big . also , is not good when you have to drive all the way to MIA or get on a flight to colombia , or get on that COPA flight , but with a stop on PANAMA for 2 hours of wait to get that connection flight . I think AV should definatly take advantage of this , but no word from them for this route .
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2333
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting Danimarroquin (Reply 75):
I think AV should definatly take advantage of this , but no word from them for this route .

They cosidered the possibility of flying to Orlando back in mid-2005 when the first international expansion in the post-Efromovich era was going to take place. The fact that they had to dedicate a valuable 757 to this route, and the possibility of using it on other higher-yielding routes completely brought down the idea.

An MD-83 is out of question since it would be limited to less than 80 passengers in order to make it from BOG to MCO.


SA.
 
B752OS
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:10 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 69):
Proposed schedules:


Boston-Orlando-Bogot?br />B6 975 BOS 1515-1830 MCO 1930-2255 BOG Daily
B6 976 BOG 2350-0500 MCO 0730-1022 BOS Daily

Dulles-Fort Lauderdale-Bogot?br />B6 981 IAD 1615-1855 FLL 1955-2305 BOG Daily
B6 982 BOG 2359-0450 FLL 0710-0935 IAD Daily

That would be interesting, one stop BOS-BOG service. Does AA currently have any one stop Latin America service through MIA from BOS?
 
A388
Posts: 8097
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 76):
An MD-83 is out of question since it would be limited to less than 80 passengers in order to make it from BOG to MCO.

Are you sure about that, only 80 passengers? LM used to fly CUR-JFK nonstop with a full MD80, isn't that a longer route?

A388
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:19 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 77):
That would be interesting, one stop BOS-BOG service. Does AA currently have any one stop Latin America service through MIA from BOS?

Yes. AA runs a few BOS-MIA-LatAm flights, but the routings change all the time.
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting Danimarroquin (Reply 75):
well , is about time that airlines focus on that route because the colombian community in orlando is getting big . also , is not good when you have to drive all the way to MIA or get on a flight to colombia , or get on that COPA flight , but with a stop on PANAMA for 2 hours of wait to get that connection flight . I think AV should definatly take advantage of this , but no word from them for this route .

The colombian community in the Orlando area has been very large for years, right now it's huge. Many colombians here travel to Colombia at least every year, and like you said, they have to drive/fly through Miami which is a big waste of time. If I was B6 I would be opening up MCO-BOG, MCO-CCS and MCO-SDQ yesturday!  Smile

Quoting A388 (Reply 78):
Are you sure about that, only 80 passengers? LM used to fly CUR-JFK nonstop with a full MD80, isn't that a longer route?

I know BOG is high and all but I thought the same thing. Besides, they now have the EMB-190, not sure if it has the range but that'll be perfect to start out the route with or just use the DC-9s  Wink does the airline still have them?

Quoting Avianca (Reply 47):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):
Avianca does not fly to Orlando.

just wait some months and you will see them there....

Aces had the perfect plane to start this route with when they were around. Avianca should've started it years ago too and it's very likely it'd be doing very well. Now that Aerorepublica is controlled by Copa (which flies to Orlando), MCO could be an even better choice than Miami as their first US city, since the Miami market has much more competition already. Aerorepublica should've done this years ago since they had the route authority before JetBlue. Now they would be late to the game.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 59):
It's unfortunate that you are never able to participate in a lucid conversation without bringing in a biased and arrogant tone

Who would have thought... for some reason this reminds me of the Alanis song that goes: Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 54):
Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 17):
I don't really know about this. There are so many markets in the United States they haven't tapped into, like Michigan, Wisconsin so fourth before they should look to Latin America,

Why? By going to Columbia, jetBlue can charge a hefty premium over what they charge for a route of similar length in the US.

I guess if you live in Michigan or Wisconsin it's normal to think Latin America is just third world place where nobody flies, so why go there right? It must have been a big shock to Jetblue guy.

By the way, why is it many here in the US, even usual a.net 'geniuses' spell the country "columbia"? I must confess, I've even seen it written like that in the news, yikes. Yes so it is derived from the name of Christopher Columbus (but the country's name has never had a "u" in there) which is Colon/Colombo in Spanish/Italian. I hope I'm not sounding too scientific here...

but CoLOmbia has nothing to do with columbia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:08 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 80):
Now that Aerorepublica is controlled by Copa (which flies to Orlando), MCO could be an even better choice than Miami as their first US city, since the Miami market has much more competition already

I think there was some talk of them looking at Orlando, but Miami is likely coming first. There is virtually zero competition with American and Avianca having a duopoly in the very high-fare market. The only other flights are three weekly LAN Chile flights. The Miami-Colombia market is underserved thanks to an extremely strict US-Colombia air treaty that doesn't allow enough flights to meet demand. This is also why the US-Colombia market is so scarcely served. With so few frequencies available, then airlines are going to use these flights primarily to Miami and New York City, and markets like Orlando are largely ignored despite the fact that they are large markets from Colombia, because they aren't as large, nor as profitable, as Miami and New York. If USA-Colombia had Open Skies or, at the least, a less restrictive air treaty, things would be very different. Another Colombian airline, Aires, is planning to start flying to Fort Lauderdale next year. They already have Colombian government approval, and need to get US DOT approval.
 
shadez
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:33 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 81):

What ever happened between Aires and Spirit regarding merger and codeshare talks? If Aires does fly this route, have they aquired an aircraft to do so yet?
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2333
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 78):
Are you sure about that, only 80 passengers? LM used to fly CUR-JFK nonstop with a full MD80, isn't that a longer route?



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 80):
I know BOG is high and all but I thought the same thing. Besides, they now have the EMB-190, not sure if it has the range

Hola Mario, I was talking specifically about Avianca. After Efromovich acquired the company in 2004, they started tossing around many potential routes for the big 2005-2006 expansion, and Orlando was considered as well.

Altitude definitely kills the performance of the MD-83 for medium-haul routes, that's why all Avianca's flights from inner-Colombia to South Florida are strictly operated on 757/767, and only the flights from coastal cities are operated in MD-83.

When a 757 goes technical and the CLO/MDE-MIA routes need to be flown on MD-83s, they usually limit the number of seat sold to less than 100, when the average capacity of the MD-83 is 136 seats. The last time Avianca operated a MD-83 on the MDE-MIA route (in 2004 IIRC) they always sold 96 seats in order to make it nonstop to Miami, or otherwise they had to make a technical stop in Cartagena.

That's basically why an MD-83 for BOG-MCO is out of question, and 757s have better use these days. I don't know if this applies for Aerorepublica's E-190s as well.


SA.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 26683
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:01 pm

So jetBlue complained to DOT about American using seven frequencies that are not route-specific for MIA-MDE/BOG, when they originally planned on using them for MIA-BAQ, even though there is no requirement they are used on a certain route.

AA's response? Conveniently reminding the Department of Transportation that jetBlue submitted their application for MCO-BOG and FLL-BOG past the date they were due. Technically, jetBlue's application isn't valid. Though I'm pretty sue DOT has a tendency to overlook those things.
 
clo1973
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:29 pm

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 68):
I'm not saying ATL-MDE and ATL-CLO wouldn't work. But if anything, I believe that the best way to go is to operate them independently, just how Delta intends to do it.

Maybe Medellin still has some space for an independent flight, I believe Cali no (at least for now) given the fact that the market is well served with the three airlines that currently operates.

As you mentioned operation of triangles by foreign carriers are expensive, but still is less than having planes fly half-empty.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 68):
That is not at all significant. That doesn't even come close to filling Cali's two daily flights to Miami. Cali isn't a great international market, as Continental Airlines has learned, and it is one of AA's poorer performing Latin American routes.

CLO - MIA August Year to Date Load = 74% .....guess you should know the data before making your statements.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 84):
AA's response? Conveniently reminding the Department of Transportation that jetBlue submitted their application for MCO-BOG and FLL-BOG past the date they were due. Technically, jetBlue's application isn't valid. Though I'm pretty sue DOT

I hope that jetBlue don't end up out of te competition on a technicality, especially as if was just 1 or 2 days, and DOT will have to have a process with the airlines about the allocation of frequencies.
Was CO's proposal out of time too? In their case, it is really quite vague, but I guess they might have something more concrete on paper soon ready to be weighed against the other airline's proposals.

If this process will take months, it means that nobody will be using the frequencies available from 1st December on or near that date. A shame if so, as both NK and DL have said that they'd be ready to start then.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 26683
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting Clo1973 (Reply 85):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 68):
That is not at all significant. That doesn't even come close to filling Cali's two daily flights to Miami. Cali isn't a great international market, as Continental Airlines has learned, and it is one of AA's poorer performing Latin American routes.

CLO - MIA August Year to Date Load = 74% .....guess you should know the data before making your statements.

Actually, I do know the data. Guess you should know that loads and yields having nothing to do with each other. Cali yields suck compared to MDE and BOG.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:40 am

MAH4546 is a laywer for American Airlines that is why he always has all the data about American.(Or at least appears to be after all the 18000 posts he has put on here, that is the picture he paints since he always has American data that is 100% correct.
 
aal0616
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:16 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
However, B6's lack of presence in non-Caribbean Latin America might be a hindrance to them. The DOT has clearly favored carriers in limited service cases that have demonstrated abilities in a region of the world. The Caribbean and Latin America are not the same markets. B6 might be told to develop its Latin network in central American markets where there are plenty of opportunities.
Not necessarily, unfortunately.

The logical and reasonable decision is for Delta to be granted JFK-Colombia and one additional entrant either MCO or FLL-Columbia, be it NKS or JBU. Neither of the latter applicants have demonstrated why they can or will serve an intercontinental market without experience; once into the southern continent, the metrics of service demands change from serving Caribbean or Central American stations. However, AAL was quick to learn following the EAL acquisitions and dormant PAA pickups, so it can be done with proper commitment, investment, patience and resource management.

I realize and appreciate the enthusiasm that many here feel for JBU. However, please understand that it will be very challenging for them to simply waltz into Colombia or other mainland southern continent markets and be immediately king of the hill. Some things will be very different from JFK to FLL,RSW, LAS, LGB, et. al. Very different.

Like having Chavez inspired, Morales-directed goons board, deplane and detain the passengers of an AAL 757 at VVI this week.

Different rules and challenges, so good luck to all.

AAL is not going away and will likely not lose the extra seven slots. It is something called experience and reliability, or a track record, love it or hate it. Likewise, AVA and its national colleagues will defend their turf. Yes, due to the existent statutes, an under served market, but how much so to fully embrace a flood of USA entrants?

The "legacies" such as DAL or even big, bad AAL still have something of a legitimate case to be made to the USA authorities. Why would Colombia be more interesting to JBU and its 320 fleet than, say, unserved potential continental markets such as MIA? No guts? What are the projections for MCO-BOG? FLL-BOG? Why go that way? Ambition?

I wonder.

We shall see.

[Edited 2007-10-19 21:20:44]

[Edited 2007-10-19 21:21:33]
 
Avianca
Posts: 5380
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 74):
The schedules for the return flgihts form BOG actually suck. No one will like a 4:50am arrival to FLL, to try and get a hotel or drive to Orlando, tired from a flight. The have to change it to an early morning departure (6:00am at least). AV will have the edge here, schedule.wise.

why? a overnight flight is still missing in the timetables....

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 76):
They cosidered the possibility of flying to Orlando back in mid-2005 when the first international expansion in the post-Efromovich era was going to take place.



Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 76):
An MD-83 is out of question since it would be limited to less than 80 passengers in order to make it from BOG to MCO.



Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 83):
Hola Mario, I was talking specifically about Avianca. After Efromovich acquired the company in 2004, they started tossing around many potential routes for the big 2005-2006 expansion, and Orlando was considered as well.

well as before mentioned, just wait some months, and we will see AV in MCO.... if you need some more info just send a pm....
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3237
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 69):
Proposed schedules:


Boston-Orlando-Bogotá:
B6 975 BOS 1515-1830 MCO 1930-2255 BOG Daily
B6 976 BOG 2350-0500 MCO 0730-1022 BOS Daily

Dulles-Fort Lauderdale-Bogotá:
B6 981 IAD 1615-1855 FLL 1955-2305 BOG Daily
B6 982 BOG 2359-0450 FLL 0710-0935 IAD Daily

This kind of timetable considering red-eyes is quite often taken by U.S. low cost carriers in their Latin American mainland stations in Costa Rica, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Peru.
Regarding the schedule, B6 is aiming for that model on BOG-Florida.
NK is commonly utilizing this arrangement in their flights to FLL from MGA, SAP, LIM (only LIM-FLL) and SJO (red-eye is seasonal, besides the current daylight flight ).
 
lrdc9
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:27 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 18):
I swear there are very few airlines on this forum that bring out such hatred in some people.

Skybus. IILLKK!

Quoting Richierich (Reply 34):
It's just a shame Jetblue can't get DirectTv outside the lower 48 states.

Why not, just a wondering?
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 26683
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 89):
The logical and reasonable decision is for Delta to be granted JFK-Colombia and one additional entrant either MCO or FLL-Columbia, be it NKS or JBU

I disagree. I think that DOT is going to try to maximize new entrants, and both NK and B6 will be awarded frequencies.

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 89):
Neither of the latter applicants have demonstrated why they can or will serve an intercontinental market without experience;

Spirit has experience in South America. They fly to Lima, daily. Also, the metrics of Colombian operations are not much different than the Dominican Republic, where jetBlue and Spirit are well established, and are far better than Haiti, where Spirit successfully operates.
 
A388
Posts: 8097
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 83):
Altitude definitely kills the performance of the MD-83 for medium-haul routes, that's why all Avianca's flights from inner-Colombia to South Florida are strictly operated on 757/767, and only the flights from coastal cities are operated in MD-83.

Oww okay, now I understand it. Will the A319s they have on order put an end to these limitations?

Saludos,

A388 Big grin
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 83):
Hola Mario, I was talking specifically about Avianca. After Efromovich acquired the company in 2004, they started tossing around many potential routes for the big 2005-2006 expansion, and Orlando was considered as well.

Altitude definitely kills the performance of the MD-83 for medium-haul routes, that's why all Avianca's flights from inner-Colombia to South Florida are strictly operated on 757/767, and only the flights from coastal cities are operated in MD-83.

When a 757 goes technical and the CLO/MDE-MIA routes need to be flown on MD-83s, they usually limit the number of seat sold to less than 100, when the average capacity of the MD-83 is 136 seats. The last time Avianca operated a MD-83 on the MDE-MIA route (in 2004 IIRC) they always sold 96 seats in order to make it nonstop to Miami, or otherwise they had to make a technical stop in Cartagena.

That's basically why an MD-83 for BOG-MCO is out of question, and 757s have better use these days. I don't know if this applies for Aerorepublica's E-190s as well.

Hola Federico, thanks for the details I was not aware the MDs had these high altitude limitations. Still think Aerorepublica should've tried the MCO market if not with the MDs definitely with the EMB-190s.

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 73):
Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 57):
So in text...El Salvador only means one city huh...I've never heard which one, but there sure are more than one El Salvadors in the world, especially down south.

Guess you're not as smart as you think.



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 65):
Humm....the only sizeable city in latin america that could get service to the US called El Salvador (not Salvador, in Brazil), is the one that is capital of el salvador (and is actually called San Salvador), and the one in which B6 does its maintanace is San Salvador, El Salvador, as the other user posted.

The country is El Salvador, its capital is San Salvador. There are ZERO cities "down south" that could be considered "well known" that are called El Salvador, not in Argentina, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, or anywhere in Central America. Sure, there could, theoretically, be a city or two named that, but they are not well known by any Latin American. As was pointed out, the secondary city of "Salvador" in Brazil is not the same name.

I think I feel enlightened now.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 74):
Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 73):


Welcome to my respected users list.

 Yeah sure lol...
 
shadez
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:33 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:18 pm

They should be denied just on the basis that they spelled Colombia wrong in their application. (They wrote Columbia). The DOT should tell them there are not slots available to a country named Columbia.

I mean really, how could you not notice that. Really bad.

[Edited 2007-10-22 15:19:21]

[Edited 2007-10-22 15:19:49]
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting Shadez (Reply 96):
They should be denied just on the basis that they spelled Colombia wrong in their application. (They wrote Columbia). The DOT should tell them there are not slots available to a country named Columbia.

I mean really, how could you not notice that. Really bad.

LOL no way.. You're j/k, where is the link I wanna see it
 
 
jfk777
Posts: 7509
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For FLL-BOG; MCO-BOG

Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting Richierich (Reply 38):
Distance is not an issue, obviously. But the 8Kft elevation is... I don't have any calculations to back myself up, but I'm guessing a fully loaded A320 out of BOG would require quite a long runway. Unless they are as long as DEN's runways, I think JFK-BOG would be a problem for B6.

El Dorado's runways are very long Avianca 767, Air France and Iberia A340's fly to Madrid and Paris NONSTOP. AV has a new fleet of A319 & A320 on order, I have to believe those planes are 5 hours capable from BOG

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