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QF175
Topic Author
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ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:58 am

Hello All,

Here's an interesting article I've just come across in TT:

US airline plans Australia launch

Quote:
Regional US airline Expressjet is preparing to launch flights in Australia in a move that will further boost domestic tourism. The carrier is looking to partner with an existing Australian airline to operate regional flights by the end of 2008.

Expressjet executive director Asia Ian Vanderbeek said discussions have taken place with a number of airlines. In the US, Expressjet operates 274 Embraer 145 jets, more than 200 of which fly under the Continental Airlines brand. A further 18 carry the Delta Airlines livery. Vanderbeek said it was planning a similar model in Australia and would look to build a fleet of 20 aircraft in the local market.

However if no existing carrier agrees a deal, Expressjet will launch flights under its own brand, Vanderbeek said. More than 40 of its US jets operate under the Expressjet banner. Vanderbeek said the Embraer jets will operate on “longer, thinner routes” which will complement existing carriers’ route networks and are currently under developed.

“There’s a role for this model with all existing carriers. It’s a question of how they perceive this sort of operation working,” Vanderbeek said. He said he hopes an announcement will be made within the next six months.

Perhaps they will partner with Virgin Blue and operate an extensive regional Australian network?

Interesting times ahead...

Cheers

[Edited 2007-10-18 01:00:56]
 
anstar
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:26 am

Very interesting!

Would be a great opportunity for QF.... I don't see DJ being interested as theyare already trying to do this internally with their EMB's.
 
ANother
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:42 am

Ironic that a US airline can operate domestically in Australia - but the opposite is illegal
 
anstar
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 2):
Ironic that a US airline can operate domestically in Australia - but the opposite is illegal

Wellt hat is how DJ & Tiger both started. Aslong as they are only 100% domestic, then they can be majority international owned.
 
bok269
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:10 am

From what I hear Australian crews will operate the flights. Shoud be interesting.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
iad51fl
Posts: 192
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:15 am

Dont think so... I believe that according to the pilots contract they are the only ones that can fly for any company under ExpressJet Holdings.

Will have to see.

Chris
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AFGMEL
Posts: 190
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:18 am

I hope that it's not QF. The regional airfares are outrageous here. DJ were right when they said before startup that lower airfares would increase demand. I wonder if this would apply to regional areas if there was more competition?
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Osprey88
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:23 am

I'd love to be on one of those positioning flights!  idea 
"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
 
bok269
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 7):
I'd love to be on one of those positioning flights!

Indeed. That should be an experience.

Quoting IAD51FL (Reply 5):
I believe that according to the pilots contract they are the only ones that can fly for any company under ExpressJet Holdings.

Hmmm....we'll have to see.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
RJwrench85
Posts: 117
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:22 am

Congratulations Expressjet!

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 8):
Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 7):
I'd love to be on one of those positioning flights!

Indeed. That should be an experience.

I wonder if they will have to do a combination of Ferry tanks and Island hopping? Seems like they would have to go up through Alaska over to Russia and down through the Philippines.


Makes me laugh at those A.neters who bash Mesa for trying things outside the USA...........
"Improvise, Adapt, Overcome"
 
ANother
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 9):
Makes me laugh at those A.neters who bash Mesa for trying things outside the USA...........

Does it make you laugh that US law prohibits non-US airlines from doing the same in America?
 
lrdc9
Posts: 268
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 10):
Does it make you laugh that US law prohibits non-US airlines from doing the same in America?

They should be able to. Prob would not amount to any more service but . . . more competition is never bad for pax.
Just say NO to scabs.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:56 am

If this were to happen, does anything say they have to align with Qantas or Virgin? What about flying under the REX banner? Would Australian law allow such?
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:57 am

They could have the airline operated as a franchise, just like McDonalds Australia. The airline would have planes on the Australian register and employee Australians (or people who have the right to live and work in Australia.) They could be aligned with an Australian carrier, but Qantas has never liked 50 seater jets and VirginBlue is getting its own fleet of E-190s and E-170s. REX grew out of Kendell which briefly operated some CRJs on behalf of Ansett.

Not sure where E-145s would operate in Australia. Qantas has Q400s operating on regional services, and the smallest jets operating for Qantas now are 717s. I do not think Qantas would operate 50 seater jets on routes where they are facing a LCC.
 
flyorski
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:15 pm

Would be very interesting. Is this the start of the Expressjet international Empire? Would be very interesting to have an international regional operator. Maybe flights in multiple parts of the world could work.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
toltommy
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 10):
Does it make you laugh that US law prohibits non-US airlines from doing the same in America?

Are you suggesting that the US Govt somehow forced the Aussie Govt to do this? The fact that the Howard government chose to implement this policy has absolutely nothing to do with the US-Australia aviation agreement. This was a decision by the Australian govt to increase competition within the country.
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Gemuser
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 15):
Are you suggesting that the US Govt somehow forced the Aussie Govt to do this? The fact that the Howard government chose to implement this policy has absolutely nothing to do with the US-Australia aviation agreement. This was a decision by the Australian govt to increase competition within the country.

While your statement is correct, what do you think will happen IF the Oz government decides that three domestic airlines is enough (which they MIGHT) and refuses the excemption under the Air Navigation Act, that Expressjet would need to even apply for an Oz licience?

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 8):
Quoting IAD51FL (Reply 5): I believe that according to the pilots contract they are the only ones that can fly for any company under ExpressJet Holdings.
Hmmm....we'll have to see.

If this was to happen Expressjet would have to set up an Oz corporate idenity that would actually hold the Oz liciences. All employees would have to be Oz citizens or permenant resideants with appropriate visas. The Chief Pilot & Chief Engineer would have to be Oz citizens and have total technical control over Oz operations. I think the CEO would also have to be an Ozzie, Brett Godfrey at DJ certainly was.

So I think the Expressjet union contract would be irrelevant in those circumstances.

Gemuser
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Stealthz
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting IAD51FL (Reply 5):
Dont think so... I believe that according to the pilots contract they are the only ones that can fly for any company under ExpressJet Holdings.



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 16):
So I think the Expressjet union contract would be irrelevant in those circumstances.

Maybe ExpressJet are expanding into overseas markets, with their operating rules, to get out from under an onerous pilots contract!

C
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
drewwright
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 17):
Maybe ExpressJet are expanding into overseas markets, with their operating rules, to get out from under an onerous pilots contract!

There is nothing onerous about ExpressJet's pilot contract, a document you have likely not even laid eyes on. But for your benefit, I will tell you it is a fair contract that provides a decent quality of life for the pilot group as well as enough flexibility to allow management to get the job done. It is one of the reasons ExpressJet has been one of the top regionals in the US. By the way, the contract does prevent any ExpressJet flying from being performed by non-XJT pilots. I'm sure there are legal loopholes that will be found or created to make an Aussie operation work. I just think there will be some difficulty finding enough XJT pilots and flight attendants willing to move to the other side of the world to staff this new venture.
 
flashflyguy
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:35 pm

RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting Drewwright (Reply 18):
I just think there will be some difficulty finding enough XJT pilots and flight attendants willing to move to the other side of the world to staff this new venture.

I would expect that they will be employing Australian pilots and flight attendants, from the outset. Should they get approval to set up here. Otherwise they won't be getting my money to fly on them, even if they give the flights away!
 
Gemuser
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting Drewwright (Reply 18):
I just think there will be some difficulty finding enough XJT pilots and flight attendants willing to move to the other side of the world to staff this new venture.

They'll only be allowed to IF they cannot recruite enough staff locally. Local FAs should be no problem, pilots a possible problem.

Gemuser
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Stealthz
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting Drewwright (Reply 18):
There is nothing onerous about ExpressJet's pilot contract, a document you have likely not even laid eyes on.

My use of the "onerous" was a figure of speech only and I will take your word that it is a fair contract.
Having said that any document that places limits on an employers dealings with their employees might be deemed onerous by that employer.

Cheers
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TruemanQLD
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RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
If this were to happen, does anything say they have to align with Qantas or Virgin? What about flying under the REX banner?

I dont see REX as they do so well anyway they dont need it

I would love to see -145's in QF livery but I dont think it will ever happen as QF uses the motto; 'fight 'em dont join 'em' (no comments). DJ wont do it as they have there E-jets already but maybe, just maybe we could see a LCC Regional airline... Jetstarlink?
I know never gonna happen.

If they did go with QF we would see new destinations (either with the E-jets or the Dash-8's):
Broken Hill, Dubbo, Coober Peedy, Devonport, Strahan (?), Maroochydore, Toowomba plus new QFlink service from OOL and NCT
 
Gemuser
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:07 am

My understanding is that both QF & Rex think CRJs, with current demand & fuel prices, are a distaster. DJ obviously disagree, but their sitution is different to the other two. From what I've seen I get the impression that DJ are using them as mini-737s, rather than true "regional" jets, ie for ports with a level of traffic just under that requiring a B737. QF use NJS B717s for that market and of course Dash8 for below that.

I really cant see CRJs being terriably successful in regional Australia, outside coastal Queensland and Bass Strait. QFs order for 12 Q400s seems to support that opinion.

Gemuser
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alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: ExpressJet - Regional Australia Flights?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 23):
My understanding is that both QF & Rex think CRJs, with current demand & fuel prices, are a distaster. DJ obviously disagree, but their sitution is different to the other two. From what I've seen I get the impression that DJ are using them as mini-737s, rather than true "regional" jets, ie for ports with a level of traffic just under that requiring a B737. QF use NJS B717s for that market and of course Dash8 for below that.

I really cant see CRJs being terriably successful in regional Australia, outside coastal Queensland and Bass Strait. QFs order for 12 Q400s seems to support that opinion.

DJ do not obviously disagree - they will be using a fleet of 102 seater E-190s, plus a small fleet of E-170s. QF have never liked 50 seater RJs, going back to James Strong days. QF have decided that some markets like Brisbane to Mackay will be served by Q400s and also by Jetstar A320s. So, will people prefer Q400s or E-190s used by DJ on a 500 mile route?

50 seater RJs really need a mainline partner who wants the feed so much that it is prepared to subsidise the cost of operating the plane. ExpressJet is having a go at doing it alone in some markets in the USA, hoping they will have more luck that Independence Air. If it does not work in the USA where there are more large cities than in Australia, it really has less chance in Australia.

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