http://www.wral.com/business/story/1954284/

Looks like GSO along with state and local officials offered an incentive package that beat out RIC. Plans call for "up to 22 daily flights."

I'll start: "Eastwind Airlines II'

Seriously though, didn't CO Lite have a major operation out of GSO? Will GSO be able to support an additional 22 flights on Skybus. I'm not too familiar with the GSO area.

Counting down the seconds till ERJ170 comes in and complains that Skybus chose GSO for a focus city instead of RDU in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

The airport itself has the capability to support the extra flights, especially after its expansion to accommodate the FedEx facility and HondaJet. In terms of population, the Piedmont Triad has 1.6 million, so does Raleigh/Durham (a one hour drive), and Charlotte has 2 million (a 1.5 hour drive). There's definitely enough population to go around...it's just that no one currently uses GSO because RDU is so much cheaper and has more nonstop flights.

[Edited 2007-10-22 06:50:20]

GSO is an interesting choice. I wonder if SKYBUS will use the TIMCO facilities for mx there??

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5): Counting down the seconds till ERJ170 comes in and complains that Skybus chose GSO for a focus city instead of RDU in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

Sorry to disappoint but I was actually pulling for GSO to land focus city status.. GSO/PTI is a completely underserved city and someone needed to come in and offer non-stop flights out of GSO. The population is there.. the fares are there.. and I wish Skybus the best of luck. I hope they offer up to 20 daily flights somewhere because they need it..

So, congratulations to Skybus and GSO.. they deserve it.. hopefully GSO will have up to 5 gates to offer them.

Quoting COEWRNJ (Reply 4): Seriously though, didn't CO Lite have a major operation out of GSO

Yes, CO tried the airline within an airline thing there and it failed. I don't think I would blame the failure on GSO, more the concept sucked. As for SkyBus using it as a second focus city...well I don't really get it. But then I've never got anything this airline is doing. My understanding of a focus city means there is a lot of O&D traffic. Sure there maybe a decent population within 1.5 hours, but It doesn't look like the O&D traffic is there. CoLite and now FedEx used GSO as a hub airport. That makes sense. It is a good half way point for n-s traffic on the east coast. It does seem a little close to there other hub in Columbus.

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 9): I don't think I would blame the failure on GSO, more the concept sucked

Well that concept was the brain child of then CO CEO Robert Ferguson who was quickly sending that airline back into bankruptcy and liquidation and later achieved that with Midway mk II at RDU. But it was cool to see GSO as an airline hub at the time.

What incentives did GSO have to provide Skybus???

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 11): What incentives did GSO have to provide Skybus???

I think it was so many dollars (several milllion or hundred million dollars total or something) for every new route that is at least 5x weekly.. and it's open to current and new entrants.. but only for new routes.. I believe that's it..

The GSO passenger base showed up in big numbers when Cal Lite had the service. It wasnt the GSO passengers' fault that CAL Lite tumbled. CAL had dozens of other massive problems at the time and GSO was abandoned as a result of the need for CAL to have a company-wide consolidatoin. So from the revenue side, this could be a winner. The question is whether Skybus can keep costs down and run a reliable operation.

Quoting Ttango (Reply 13): The question is whether Skybus can keep costs down and run a reliable operation.

That is true. I wonder how much GSO area residents still remember how Eastwind went down the tubes. I knew a few people who worked for Eastwind and they told me some very interesting stories of the results of the operational unreliability of the "bee" that involved the Guliford County Sherriff's Department at times!




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Now all I need is for Skybus to start GSO-SGJ and GSO-LAL and I am all set. I really hope Skybus works now.

hmm.. interesting.. here is an article from the local paper..

Stating how GSO got $3.9 Million in incentives from the state of North Carolina to give to Skybus to initiate the focus city.

Congratulations to Skybus, GSO, and NC.. but doesn't it just seem to bite some people in the rear how it is always stated that RDU and CLT get state money for everything.. whereas this is the first time that I can EVER remember seeing the actual state give money to an airport for new service? Ironic, huh? *wink*

Anyway... just HAD to be a bit bitchy... but it's good news regardless.. so that now all large airports in North Carolina have either a hub or focus city status attached to it.. that says a lot for the state and the people in it..

So, where do we think Skybus will open routes from GSO? CMH is a given.. FLL is given..

perhaps Portsmouth, St Augusting, Kansas City, and Gulfport? Perhaps Punta Gorda?

Can't wait to see the public outlash when all this money is wasted after Skybus goes under in a few months. What a waste. You'd think an airport like GSO would know better.

GSO-SGJ seems like a given. I know there are people that drive from N.C. to North Florida, and low fares should get some of them to fly. That's a classic move from the WN playbook, and I'm frankly surprised that SX hasn't done more of it.

I'm not so sure about PGD. Demand to southwest Florida is much stronger from the midwest than the east coast. For whatever reason, folks from the east coast tend to gravitate toward the east coast of Florida.

GSO-PSM would be an interesting route. DL (OH, actually) flies GSO-BOS, and though fares on that route are relatively high, there is a lot of competition from DL, AA, WN, US, and B6 from CLT and RDU. Unlike some other routes, where SX can count on bleed from Charlotte and the Triangle (which is what makes GSO a great choice for a focus city), that wouldn't be so true with PSM.

GSO-MCI seems too thin to work.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 16): Stating how GSO got $3.9 Million in incentives from the state of North Carolina to give to Skybus to initiate the focus city

Plus additional money from the local government? Is part of this the airport pays Skybus so much per passenger? I am wondering how they get the average wage of $46,000???

The routse are "Boston", Burbank, Fort Lauderdale, "Fort Myers", "Hartford", "Jacksonville", and "New Orleans".

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17): Can't wait to see the public outlash when all this money is wasted after Skybus goes under in a few months. What a waste. You'd think an airport like GSO would know better.

Do you have any evidence that they are doing that bad? I don't get that impression yet but I haven't heard much other than that they are "full".

Here's the company press release:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071022/clm086.html?.v=43

Here is the list of cities and flights for GSO:

Starting Jan. 6
CMH gets second daily flight

Starting Jan. 15
PSM gets two daily flights
St. Augustine gets one
PGD gets two

Starting Jan. 17
FLL gets one daily flight
GPT gets one
Hartford/Springfield gets one

Starting Feb. 25
Los Angeles gets one daily flight

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071022/clm086.html?.v=43

Are you kidding me?!?!?!

GSO-BUR on a A319 packed like a sardine can, with FAs constantly trying to get you to buy Tshirts and keychains?

Can't wait...   

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21): Do you have any evidence that they are doing that bad? I don't get that impression yet but I haven't heard much other than that they are "full".

Actual evidence, no. It's just what I believe. They've already discontinued two destinations, which is in itself not a good sign. They were also set to launch Nassau, Freeport, and Cancun in less than two weeks. Never happened.

They are relying to heavily on markets that just are not there. As has been pointed out on other threads, they will be flying three daily CMH-PGD flights this winter. How do they expect to realisticly succede in that market, when they will be providing 150% of the O&D demand between Columbus and both Sarasota and Ft. Myers to Punta Gorda?

I'm sure flight loads aren't their problem. Cheap fares are easy to fill. I have a hard time believing that they are making much money, especially on longer runs, on $10-$50 fares. Also, the internet is awash in horror stories about them. If these represent typical experiences, they aren't going to be getting much repeat business. A friend of mine flew them from Columbus to Burbank. Once he landed he ate the cost of the return ticket and booked a one-way return to Southwest. I know that is only one ancedote and doesn't reflect the average consumer, but you hear the horror stories more often than other airlines. There have also been a lot of problems, at least when service first launched, at the Dollar Rent-A-Car in St. Augustine. People where showing up for reservations that they had made at JAX, and the small location didn't have any cars to give them. They also rely too heavily on the idea of keeping the plane in the air all the time. Which such a tightly utilzied fleet, flights are often delayed, creating a huge ripple effect. They need to give their planes more rest when they have so few to fly.

Like I've said, if they adjust their business model to making the focus city Florida or Burbank, and to aiming at getting tourists there (similar to Allegiant), I think they can turn themselves around. Though right now they are just digging a deeper whole than even Expressjet is.

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 9): It does seem a little close to there other hub in Columbus.

If Skybus...

... (a) doesn't offer connecting tickets, and
... (b) considers itself only an O&D, PTP airline, then...

... why does the proximity of CMH and GSO matter? There are zero CMH passengers who will fly out of GSO, and vice versa Given the two assumptions above, it seems to me that "driving distance" is the only criterion for saying "a little close" and that these two airports resoundly fail that criterion.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25): How do they expect to realisticly succede in that market, when they will be providing 150% of the O&D demand between Columbus and both Sarasota and Ft. Myers to Punta Gorda?

Sarasota/Pt. Charlotte/Ft. Myers is an extremely popular second home destination. How do you know that this added service won't increase demand. If SX offers cheap fares, maybe those with second homes will take trips more often thus increasing the O&D. I will say though that two dailies to GSO might be a bit much. We shall see though. North Carolina is very popular with Floridians.

Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 27): Sarasota/Pt. Charlotte/Ft. Myers is an extremely popular second home destination. How do you know that this added service won't increase demand.

If I have a second home in any of the nicer parts of southwest Florida, I'm not very likely going to be flying Skybus... I don't think the second home crowd is quite what SX is going for (or it shouldn't be, anyway).

Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 27): Sarasota/Pt. Charlotte/Ft. Myers is an extremely popular second home destination. How do you know that this added service won't increase demand. If SX offers cheap fares, maybe those with second homes will take trips more often thus increasing the O&D.

First off, if you have a second home, you aren't flying Skybus. You are flying the airline with which you collect miles. You also don't worry about not being able to afford to fly down to your second home as often. You can fly down there often, and afford it. Otherwise, you wouldn't buy a second home.

Secondly, I do not deny that Skybus will have an effect in spurring O&D demand. What I am saying is that it won't spur it as much as the capacity they are adding. Which is 150% more than O&D on Skybus alone, entirely ignoring other carriers in the market.

I know this is really off topic and I do apologise, but do you think Skybus would ever consider flying to Rockford? Maybe tap into the Fort Myers to Chicago market.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 28): If I have a second home in any of the nicer parts of southwest Florida, I'm not very likely going to be flying Skybus... I don't think the second home crowd is quite what SX is going for (or it shouldn't be, anyway).

Actually, the second home crowd in Port Charlotte is hardly wealthy. They choose Pt. Charlotte/Punta Gorda because it is much cheaper than the rest of Southwest Florida. When I say second homes, I mean "mobile homes" and trailers. Charlotte County is probably the mobile home capital of the world. This is exactly the crowd Skybus is looking for. I know what you mean though about the people with actual second houses (not trailers). I doubt they will use SX.

Quoting Krsw757 (Reply 30): I know this is really off topic and I do apologise, but do you think Skybus would ever consider flying to Rockford?

Why fly to RFD when they can fly to GYY? Even for the northern suburbs, GYY is easier to get to.

Pretty excited about this. One of my friends lives in St Augustine, so I imagine he'll be on that flight a fair bit (when he's not on his private plane), and I might need to take the PSM flights to get me home.

Quoting COEWRNJ (Reply 2): I give them 10 days until they are out of business. Sorry bored to tears here. lol.

Then why comment?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29): First off, if you have a second home, you aren't flying Skybus.

Have you been to Florida? The state bird is the Snowbird. These people at best have a one or two bedroom 30 year old apartment condo. Most of them are in mobile home parks.

Not to mention that, even if they have a decent home, retirees are on fixed incomes and will look to save money wherever possible.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25): How do they expect to realisticly succede in that market, when they will be providing 150% of the O&D demand between Columbus and both Sarasota and Ft. Myers to Punta Gorda?

I don't dispute that, but I think the missing piece that will make or break Skybus is the generation of demand for travel between city pairs that have no historical demand. I don't think anyone has any reasonable idea what the demand for Chicopee/Punta Gorda is, just like it's tough to say what demand there is between Weeze and Skavsta, versus Duesseldorf and Stockholm especially given the limitation of various data sources. I guess I'm somewhat optimistic that they're capturing demand that has just not had any reasonable options before.

Although what will be interesting is on the route GSO-FLL with Allegiant starting next month and SXB folllowing a couple months later, and the disadvantage for Allegiant will be they don't run it every day.

We will see

JetBlueGuy2006

I will be surprised if they make this work out. I think there are better choices than GSO.

Hunter

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 37): I will be surprised if they make this work out. I think there are better choices than GSO

But do they offer as much money as GSO?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 35): I don't dispute that, but I think the missing piece that will make or break Skybus is the generation of demand for travel between city pairs that have no historical demand. I don't think anyone has any reasonable idea what the demand for Chicopee/Punta Gorda is, just like it's tough to say what demand there is between Weeze and Skavsta, versus Duesseldorf and Stockholm especially given the limitation of various data sources. I guess I'm somewhat optimistic that they're capturing demand that has just not had any reasonable options before.

I see where you are coming from, but I don't agree that we can't see the demand. Punta Gorda is essentially Fort Myers. You can look at CMH-RSW figures, and the reasonable demand for CMH-PGD is right there on it's face.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 36): Although what will be interesting is on the route GSO-FLL with Allegiant starting next month and SXB folllowing a couple months later

Should be an interesting dogfight. Allegiant will have the edge by being the first to start service but as you said Skybus will have the advantage with daily flights and a larger presence in GSO.

With only 42 passengers a day and the market well served (via connections) by US Airways and Delta, not sure how this route can sustain either airline.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25): They've already discontinued two destinations, which is in itself not a good sign

Maybe they did that in order to facilitate the GSO expansion since they will only have 7 aircraft at the end of the year?

Also, everyone has agreed on anet that shorter segments make for better RASM with fuel prices so high right now.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 41): Also, everyone has agreed on anet that shorter segments make for better RASM with fuel prices so high right now.

How do you explain the GSO-BUR routing then?

Quoting National757 (Reply 42): How do you explain the GSO-BUR routing then?

Because they can still make some money on that route. They are keeping 1 CMH-BUR also. With the right fare mix long haul can be profitable obviously  

Many people on another thread were claiming that getting rid of BLI and SAN were signs of SX's demise. I was pointing out it is a realignment of assets as opposed an indication of BK since they can't get enough aircraft quickly enough.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 41): Also, everyone has agreed on anet that shorter segments make for better RASM with fuel prices so high right now.

I actually am not so concerned about them ending some of the long-hauls. If the fare structure is relatively similar on a long-haul and a short-haul, then obviously it is more advantageous to run the short-haul, as you're bringing in more money. CASM goes up because of landing fees etc., but RASM goes up more significantly, or at least it should. I can see SX's plan ultimately being high-frequency P2P service on short-hauls like WN...not low-cost transcons like B6.

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 44): can see SX's plan ultimately being high-frequency P2P service on short-hauls like WN...not low-cost transcons like B6.

I totally agree with you.

Seems to me that if Skybus wants to be successful they're going to at least need to offer connections. It's no surprise that routes like CMH-BLI work without connections, but if you begin to offer connecting opportunities, then your chances improve many times over.

Operating focus cities in these smaller cities are fine, but not on transcon flights to destinations that don't have the O&D. While I realize that they're keeping things simple as possible, a model like this won't last in the US. Ryanair works well because even though most flights are P2P, they're between major European capitals and vacation spots. Generally speaking, they're not from small city to small city.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17): Can't wait to see the public outlash when all this money is wasted after Skybus goes under in a few months. What a waste. You'd think an airport like GSO would know better.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner. I give them upto 24 months.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21): Do you have any evidence that they are doing that bad? I don't get that impression yet but I haven't heard much other than that they are "full".

They have already stopped service to two of their routes.

Every dollar fuel goes up will eat into Scuzzbus, and every carrier including the 500 lb. gorilla WN is going to match their fares to put them out of business. I can't wait.

If only they could serve BNA to ATL and BNA to GSO to add some competition from the 2 BNA strong holds DL and WN.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32): Quoting Krsw757 (Reply 30): I know this is really off topic and I do apologise, but do you think Skybus would ever consider flying to Rockford? Why fly to RFD when they can fly to GYY? Even for the northern suburbs, GYY is easier to get to.

....though it might be theoretically correct (and that's debatable), the notion of going from the North Suburbs to GYY is something which most people wouldn't consider. Even going "down" to MDW is considered far by most residents of the north suburbs....

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 34): Have you been to Florida? The state bird is the Snowbird. These people at best have a one or two bedroom 30 year old apartment condo. Most of them are in mobile home parks. Not to mention that, even if they have a decent home, retirees are on fixed incomes and will look to save money wherever possible.

Exactly! Punta Gorda is not Naples, Ft. Myers, Sanibel, or Captiva. Those places have the million dollar homes. Punta Gorda is hardly one of the wealthy areas of SW FL unless you consider mobile homes a home of choice. Punta Gorda is the poster child for everything Skybus. I also wouldn't be too eager to say that the wealthy won't fly SX. Wealthy people get wealthy by saving money. If they can get a cheap flight I think they will go for it. I know many wealthy people (my parents for starters) and price definately is a factor. Why spend a ton of money if you are only going to be in the air for three hours? The airlines have become so bad lately that most people aren't even thinking about the service offered (at least none that I know). They simply want an airline that can get them from point A to point B safely and economically.

When I was in sales in Lakeland, I dealt with plenty of snowbirds from all parts of the country and different economic backgrounds. One things that was pretty constant among them was the they were CHEAP!!! I couldn't believe that they could be so cheap. During my last Winter their gas prices were quite expensive and they complained and complained about how it would cost them 500 dollars in gas from Michigan to Florida, and that doesn't take into account food and motel stays. Yes, I believe they can make it work.

I don't get why people want them to fail so miserably. I keep on hearing the same rhetoric about how it is bad for the industry, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine, etc. If the industry cannot support this model, it will go away. But those people working for those low wages are their not by force but by choice, and they are helping to shape the industry. You don't believe in Skybus, don't fly them. I for one who is in Blacksburg hope they do very well in GSO.