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PRGLY
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Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:37 am

According skyliner aviation.de TACA is ordering 12 EMB 190 plus 15 options. If confirmed it will be nice move of both TA and EMB in Central America.
 
dellatorre
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:00 am

It's already confirmed in Embraer's web site

This is a nice boost to Central America aviation. TA will be able to offer connections to many limited markets that are not capable of filling an A319.

The order is for 11 EMB-190 + 15 options.
 
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viaggiare
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:50 am

You might want to check the ongoing discussion about this very same topic in the CentAm thread. Although most of the buzz is from the last three days, there's been some speculation in there for the past week. That was right after word of some sort of deal with Embraer first leaked.
 
charlipr
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:32 pm

Taca Group placed an order for 11 E-190s plus 15 options, Embraer announced. The order, which had been on the manufacturer's books as unidentified, is worth $379.5 million at list prices and could reach $897 million if all options are exercised. Aircraft will be configured with 88 economy and eight executive class seats, with deliveries planned to begin in the second half of next year.


http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=10/25/2007
 
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juanchito
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:27 pm

Really good new for Taca and Embraer, we will see new routes open in Central American.

Juanchito
 
787kq
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:49 pm

Anyone have any guesses about what the new markets they will use the 190's will be?

"La aerol�a, que se encuentra en franco crecimiento, proyecta la compra de nuevas aeronaves para cerrar 2008 con 40 aviones (a la fecha tiene 36).

Las adquisiciones incluir�esta vez, aviones de la brasile�b> Embraer con 94 a 96 asientos. La recepci�e las naves se espera para finales del pr�o a�"Eso nos dar�a posibilidad de atender nuevos mercados y tener clientes m�satisfechos", dijo."

http://www.elsalvador.com/mwedh/nota...eta.asp?idCat=6342&idArt=1769159"
Central American Aviation Thread - 15! (by Carmenlu15 Oct 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Is there any possibility of basing any of the planes in Lima, perhaps for some domestic flights (making Cusco daily, or Iquitos), northern Chile and Argentina (if it has the range), Paraguay or a new Brazilian destination? And if no guesses there, then what destinations and from what hub?
 
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juanchito
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:32 pm

A picture I found


Looks Nice



Juanchito
 
skyyblue
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:43 pm

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 5):
Anyone have any guesses about what the new markets they will use the 190's will be?

MSY-SAP-SAL. This has to be one!!!
 
TACAA320
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:59 pm

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 5):
Is there any possibility of basing any of the planes in Lima

Almost 100% sure. Nothing official.
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:15 pm

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 5):
Is there any possibility of basing any of the planes in Lima,

I was going to say that I could bet that some of these will be for the expansion of TACA in Peru.
 
juventus
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:52 pm

With these new and smaller EMB 190s, where in Mexico could TACA begin service??? MTY, GDL, TLC, PVR, any of these...

saludos
 
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juanchito
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:14 pm

Quoting Juventus (Reply 10):
With these new and smaller EMB 190s, where in Mexico could TACA begin service??? MTY, GDL, TLC, PVR, any of these...

I think MTY and GDL will be added from SAL
Maybe they could used it on GUA-FRS-GUA insted of the A319

Juanchito
 
G5ive
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:42 pm

You beat me by a day on posting this.  Big grin
Any chance of Taca getting other type of a/c?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:22 pm

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 7):
MSY-SAP-SAL. This has to be one!!!

Yeah, tough to believe that after nearly 60yrs of continuous operations, TA is still not back at MSY yet. Hopefully, this will help.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:42 pm

My bet is probably to reshuffle their BZE operation and strictly make it a spoke from SAL....not a stop on the way to IAH.

10Xweekly would be ideal...seats to SAL are at a premium.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:43 pm

How does the saying go? "Monkey say, monkey do", or something like that, no? A page right out of CM's book.

It is nice to see TA adding smaller, state-of-the-art jets. With these very efficient Embraers, TA will be able to expand their routemap substantially. I recall a recent announcement by TA in the sense that they wanted to grow at a very aggressive and almost unachievable rate in South America. With proper schedules, upgraded service, the right codeshares (UA, LH, JJ, etc.), the 195s could definitely help TA meet their targets. Good luck!

Oh, and the planes don't look bad in the TA livery. The livery is only lacking a bird.
 
mt99
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
How does the saying go? "Monkey say, monkey do", or something like that, no? A page right out of CM's book.

Oh come on .. give TA's leadership a bit of credit. They have been successful so far..
 
EddieDude
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 16):
give TA's leadership a bit of credit. They have been successful so far..

Hey Mt99, I did not mean to mock TA or to say their management is not good, but it just seems to me TA is in several ways a follower of CM's steps. Some time ago, nobody thought it possible that CM or TA would order a different type of plane because their all-one-type fleets (737s vs A320s), which is itself a page from WN's book, was working very well for those. And then, first thing you know, CM gets the Embraer jets, only to be followed not too long afterwards by TA.

As you can see from the rest of my post...

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
It is nice to see TA adding smaller, state-of-the-art jets. With these very efficient Embraers, TA will be able to expand their routemap substantially.

... I think TA made a good choice and I wish them well.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 17):
Some time ago, nobody thought it possible that CM or TA would order a different type of plane because their all-one-type fleets (737s vs A320s),

As long as I remember TA operated the B737 before CM did [please correct me if I am wrong].
 
hardiwv
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:25 pm

Congratulatios to TA for this amazing order!

On a side note, TA's LIM-GRU double daily has proven a success. Any guess on future expansion to GIG or perhaps San Jose to GRU?

Rgs,
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:51 am

In the last Central American thread version it has been extensively questioned the chosen of the 190 over the 318, because TA has been basically an Airbus operator for a long time deploying the 319, 320 and 321 families.
Something similar happened when CM didn't follow its instincts when acquired the 190 over the 736 being purely a Boeing operator: 738 and 73G Next Generation.
The following information shows us the typical range for the 736, 318 and 190 taking into account weight parameters.

Type...Minimum standard range.....Passenger capacity.......OEW (kg).........MTOW (kg)
B736...........1340 nm..............................110......................37 100..............56 200
A318...........1500 nm.........................107 (8-99)..................38 400..............59 000
E190...........1800 nm...............................98.......................27 700..............47 000
B717...........1375 nm..............................106.......................31 700.............49 900 ***

*** Off topic, just as a reference.
OEW: Operational empty weight.
MTOW: Maximum take-off weight.
Sources: embraer.com and airliners.net. A/C data

According the data, it has been technically demonstrated that the performance of the winglet 190 is undoubtedly better than the rest of the aircrafts compared due to its longer range and better efficiency assuming lower operating costs due to burned fuel regarding its dead loads as it has previously stated out above.
The proper usage of the 190 establishes regional tracks for 100 seat market. As a reference, CM regularly operates the 190 for PTY-MAO (1365 nm **) and PTY-GDL (1547 nm **), among many others.
[** According Great Circle Mapper. Just for illustrative purposes. Distances may not be accurate and not valid for navigation or flight planning.]
CM shouldn't fly these legs using the 736 unless payload restrictions would be allowed. So, why not to use a better suitable airplane like the 190 and maybe cheaper...
I would really appreciate accurate information concerning to the single price of the 190 as compared with both 736 and 318.
Rumor has it that some of the new 190s will be apparently based in LIM and that would be an issue for the proper usage of the 190 if TA would shift the Airbus airplanes in some routes. For the meantime, LIM-LPB-VVI and LIM-CUZ are working with Airbus equipment despite the altitude in both CUZ and LPB.
As far as I'm aware, the kind of airplane to operate in these stations must be certificated and not all the models are capable to fly there evenly considering restrictions in payloads and regardless the relative short journey from LIM.
That being said, my point is rather focused if TA would operate these destinations from LIM using the 190s or will they be used instead for other current markets where they can easily operate from, such as GYE, CCS, VVI, BOG and so on. It would be quite interesting if other stations would be opened later on TA.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 20):
it has been technically demonstrated that the performance of the winglet 190 is undoubtedly better than the rest of the aircrafts

Tks for the very interesting information.

Rgs,
 
TACAA320
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:11 pm

From TA's web site:

http://news.taca.com/eng/nws/nwsbro.asp?key=833

[Sorry: Spanish only].
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:52 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
TA in the sense that they wanted to grow at a very aggressive and almost unachievable rate in South America. With proper schedules, upgraded service, the right codeshares (UA, LH, JJ, etc.)

TA is aiming to Star Alliance and code-shares extensively with UA. TA and LH have signed a memorandum of understanding some month ago in Lima. JJ abandoned the interline agreement with TA in favor of LA.


.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 18):
As long as I remember TA operated the B737 before CM did

I believe so, but I cannot prove that. From my childhood memories comes to mind a 737 involved with the former TA named "Barlovento" around 1980.
By the early 80s, both CM and TA already utilized such equipment.
The following nostalgic attachment in Spanish may provide a clue:
http://hispanicprwire.com/news.php?cha=9&id=3790&l=inid%3D5043


.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 19):
TA's LIM-GRU double daily has proven a success. Any guess on future expansion to GIG or perhaps San Jose to GRU?

Don't get excited for TA SJO-GRU: all the operation to far South America are based at LIM. They have rather boosted services to their Central American hubs from LIM: SJO and SAL.
I would assume the success of the two daily LIM-GRU and LIM-EZE is mostly based on the size-able market coming mainly from Peru, Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela plus others stations. The 321 has been usually launched this year from LIM to the named destinations in far South America. This behavior is possible through LIM, not SJO.
The other issue for TA SJO-GRU is the capability of the current planes to run the distance which lies around 3000 nm. The chance for TA is likely the 319 Airbus equipment, but I don't think they dare deploy the route for the reasons listed above.
Illustrative: CM operates regularly PTY-GRU with 73G.
For operations from Sao Paulo, JJ operated GRU-GIG, GRU-SSA and GRU-REC and vice versa on behalf of TA.

Regards.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:43 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
For operations from Sao Paulo, JJ operated GRU-GIG, GRU-SSA and GRU-REC and vice versa on behalf of TA.

TAM-TA agreement is about to terminate. TAM signed an agreement with LAN. This means TA could face some problems in GRU in terms of connections.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
The chance for TA is likely the 319 Airbus equipment, but I don't think they dare deploy the route for the reasons listed above.

Please explain.

Rgs,
 
aa1818
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:25 am

Congrats to TA, I hope they start flying the skies of the Caribbean soon. Perhaps a few of the English speaking islands like JM, BGI, ANU and POS will get service with teh E190s?!

AA1818
 
787kq
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
The other issue for TA SJO-GRU is the capability of the current planes to run the distance which lies around 3000 nm. The chance for TA is likely the 319 Airbus equipment, but I don't think they dare deploy the route for the reasons listed above.

Why doesn't Taca add A320 flights to Miami from its Lima hub? I believe this would work and would provide an alternative time to the late night early morning flights that are a headache to catch. Those flights make sense for American airlines with hubs on the other end but TACA can take advantage of it hub in Lima and reasonable departure times from Lima.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
From my childhood memories comes to mind a 737 involved with the former TA named "Barlovento" around 1980.

I also remember "Barlovento". But must be before 1980 [I was not so "child" at that time].
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
JJ abandoned the interline agreement with TA in favor of LA.



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 24):
TAM-TA agreement is about to terminate. TAM signed an agreement with LAN. This means TA could face some problems in GRU in terms of connections.

Yes. I put this information before. Watch carefully my last post on the top.
TA is in troubles in Brazil and I haven't got a clue about how they may solve them considering the other Central American carrier CM Copa Airlines has already established interline agreements with G3.
JJ has closed strategic partnerships with key Star Alliance airlines in order to consolidate and expand its flights network abroad: TP, LH and UA.
Nonetheless, TA has not been included anymore in despite of the existing business relationship TA-UA-LH.


.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 24):
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
The chance for TA is likely the 319 Airbus equipment, but I don't think they dare deploy the route for the reasons listed above.

Please explain.

It was related to the hypothetical TA SJO-GRU you asked before.
The 319 takes advantage in range over the 320 and 321. The typical range for the 319 is around 3000nm/4500 km. [Other configurations support around 3600 nm]. By the way, SJO-GRU is 2985 nm.**
[** Great Circle Mapper. Just for illustrative purposes, not valid for flight planning. Distances may not be accurate and measured purely as straight line. No way-points or diversion procedures have been taken into account.]
I am not sure about the specific accurate range for TA's 319 and probably cannot operate in the comfortable range meaning payload restrictions in passengers and/or cargo becoming the flight unappealing for the air carrier.
That being said, the point is as follows: healthy and comfortable operations are easily taken instead for TA LIM-GRU using the 321 which is the biggest aircraft of its fleet.

By the way, any info about the Airbus 318 fleet with LA: new deliveries are expected in the future?


.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 25):
I hope they start flying the skies of the Caribbean soon. Perhaps a few of the English speaking islands like JM, BGI, ANU and POS will get service with teh E190s?!

There's nothing official about new operations with such equipment.


.

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 26):
Those flights make sense for American airlines with hubs on the other end

TA doesn't code-share with AA anymore. They're doing with UA.
Despite TA flies to MIA from several Central American destinations, IMHO the key points for TA in the USA are the hubs of UA where TA used to fly: LAX, SFO, ORD and IAD.


.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 27):
I also remember "Barlovento". But must be before 1980

I think "Barlovento" was the first 737 involved with the former TA.
I still remember the BAC 1-11 era when CM utilized the Electra equipment.
Maybe the Honduran SH Sahsa -no longer in service- was the first operator in Central America for the 737, if I remember correctly.
Regards.
 
aa1818
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 28):
There's nothing official about new operations with such equipment.

Have they said anything about which routes will get the E190??

AA1818
 
atct
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:56 pm

I personally would like to see some SAL-IAH runs. It would help add connections for their IAH traffic.

ATCT
 
787kq
Posts: 380
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 28):
TA doesn't code-share with AA anymore. They're doing with UA.
Despite TA flies to MIA from several Central American destinations, IMHO the key points for TA in the USA are the hubs of UA where TA used to fly: LAX, SFO, ORD and IAD.

The reason for a nonstop Lima to Miami flight would be to capitalize on Miami being the American destination of choice for many Latin Americans. Also the point I made earlier was that there are no services that offer day connections at Lima to Miami, so this would offer a convenient nonstop from Lima and onestops from points further south including Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, La Paz, Santa Cruz and Cusco. Miami is probably the one destination in the US that could be served from Lima without the need for connecting traffic on the US side.

I acknowlege that TACA serves the South American markets with connections through San Salvador and San Jose, though many are inconvenient 2 stops.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
Have they said anything about which routes will get the E190??

Give some time.
The one new route officially announced is TA SAL-OAK-SAL. Starts: November 2007. Airbus equipment.
They opened LIM-MVD-LIM on October 21st. Airbus equipment.


.

Quoting ATCT (Reply 30):
personally would like to see some SAL-IAH runs. It would help add connections for their IAH traffic.

Connections for TA are not healthy positioned at IAH because the current service is SAL-BZE-IAH which is unattractive for this purpose adding CO supplies a bunch of operations to Latin America through IAH.
SAL-BZE-IAH has been active so long ago.

.

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 31):
Also the point I made earlier was that there are no services that offer day connections at Lima to Miami, so this would offer a convenient nonstop from Lima and onestops from points further south including Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, La Paz, Santa Cruz and Cusco

I would assume some of the reasons to justify the lack for TA LIM-MIA:
a. The existence of a consolidated market to South Florida from LIM: AA, LP and NK.
b. MIA is not a base anymore for UA.
c. The wealthy connections from [EZE-SCL-GRU-LPB-VVI-CUZ] may be concentrated instead at [UIO-GYE-BOG-CCS-SAL-SJO] through LIM which is geographically well positioned in the mid South America to enable this situation.

Regards.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 31):
there are no services that offer day connections at Lima to Miami, so this would offer a convenient nonstop from Lima and onestops from points further south including Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, La Paz, Santa Cruz and Cusco

LP LIM-MIA is departing from LIM at 10:40 and returning at 05:50 next day.
Some connections from destinations in South America are available through LAN system network.
 
G5ive
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:32 pm

RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:33 pm

Threads can be hostile places, TA vs CM. No my airline is better, no my planes are bigger, no the pilots over at TA are more professional, no CM got the 190's first so we're better!!!  tongue 
People, people..why all the hostility? Different countries but we're all Centro Americanos.  whiteflag 
 
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yellowtail
Posts: 3938
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:28 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 32):
SAL-BZE-IAH has been active so long ago

and exist soley for SAL-BZE-SAL passengers...and although this short leg keeps the route alive, when TA does manage to fill the flight in SAL with pax to IAH....BZE paxs always get the heave ho. Generally if more that 20 pax get on in Belize to IAH it is a good day.

TA also has some very loyal travel agents in Houston.....people like TravelTech.

My prediction is you will see the route split....E190 SAL-IAH and E190 SAL-BZE

While I look forward to a different aircraft, it is sad to see TA winding down in BZE...there were days when BZE had TA flights to IAH, MIA, MSY, SAL, SAP, GUA + cargo flights ....some with 762 eqp....BZE always got the newest equipment.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 35):
My prediction is you will see the route split....E190 SAL-IAH and E190 SAL-BZE

The conditions for a dedicated TA SAL-IAH look extremely hard taking into account that CO's passengers coming from Central American cities can easily diversify among other destinations once in IAH and this situation is hardly possible with TA.
Based on the average of 20 daily passengers for TA BZE-IAH that you previously told us, this traffic practically ended at IAH regarding the limited service of UA there.
This fact support my point on reply 32:
"Connections for TA are not healthy positioned at IAH because the current service is SAL-BZE-IAH which is unattractive for this purpose adding CO supplies a bunch of operations to Latin America through IAH."

.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 35):
Generally if more that 20 pax get on in Belize to IAH it is a good day.

I didn't know that. Thanks.
Regards.  Smile
 
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yellowtail
Posts: 3938
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RE: Taca Order Of EMB 190

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:37 pm

It may not be so now..but TA used to pay all their N.A. employees from Hou becasue of some TX employment law that made it advantageous, I belive it was no state income tax. If this is still the case, then they may also be the reason why TA keep IAH alive.

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