panaman
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Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:02 pm

The press department for Skybus (I.E Wolfe Enterprises Inc) is saying Niagara Falls& Gary, In for possible news hot destinations for Skybus maybe in Feb.

http://www.10tv.com/?sec=&story=site...ontent/pool/200710/1118978231.html

New Flights Possible For Skybus
Oct 26 2007 7:27AM
COLUMBUS, Ohio - Discount airline Skybus was looking to add shorter flights to its schedule.

The Columbus-based was considering adding flights to Niagara Falls, New York City and Gary, Ind., 10TV News reported.
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FLYB6JETS
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:09 pm

Skybus To NY? (by FLYB6JETS Oct 26 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Damnit, you beat me by 6 minutes.
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ADXMatt
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:22 pm

If SkyBus were to start service to New York City it would be to Stewart (SWF) or Islip (ISP)

ISP has a strong WN presence but plenty of room for SkyBus and Long Islanders now equate ISP with low fares.

However I think WN would make it difficult so my money would be with SWF.

Farmingdale (FRG) used to have commercial service to Atlantic City years ago but I doubt they would want Airbus size a/c on a daily basis due to the size of the airport. The runways are long enough for short haul travel to CMH but it is a small field that is congested and not much space.
 
FLYB6JETS
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 2):
However I think WN would make it difficult so my money would be with SWF.

Would it be wise for Skybus to start NYC service with such few a/c? I would think they would want to wait until they have a few more planes in the fleet to have a better chance at operational recovery in the event you get a plane stuck on the east coast for hours on end. Granted if they serve SWF or ISP those are not as delay prone, but you still have to get through the airspace.
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avianca707359b
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:01 pm

More details here:

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live..._10-26-07_C10_CV89JJS.html?sid=101

I can't wait to see the ads for their new "Big Apple" flights from uncongested "suburban" Stewart airport (62 miles & 1.5 hrs to Times Square), or their new service to "Toronto (Niagara Falls)".

By the way, I hope they don't even THINK of starting to operate in northern NY State in February with 25-minute turnarounds, because if they do, they're going to need more white stuff than will fall from the skies.....
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gregarious119
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:28 pm

With the heavy leisure focus of ACY - I'm really quite surprised they haven't made the dive yet there. Atlantic City is quite a draw by itself, and they could be pulling in traffic for the whole shore down to Cape May. Depending on the fares, they could be drawing people from the south end of Philly, although WN's fares at PHL are already pretty good.

Man...I'd love it it they flew to ACY.
 
ADXMatt
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:42 pm

I never even considored Trenton... TTN

I associate Trenton with Philly.

Skybus could market Trenton as both New York City and Philly. More bang for the buck.
 
ORDagent
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:13 pm

More power to them if they can get Gary IN to make money. A lot of LCCs have tried to establish a presence there but ended up pulling out or going bankrupt.
 
FLYB6JETS
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 6):
I never even considored Trenton... TTN

I associate Trenton with Philly.

Very good point. What is the travel time between Trenton and Midtown?
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shadez
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:16 pm

I think Trenton has potential to certain markets. It can easily draw people from North Jersey, Philly, and NYC. Also, a large number of businesses have offices in Princeton. That being said, I don't think by any means TTN could work as a focus city, but I do think it could be productive to places such as FLL.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 7):
A lot of LCCs have tried to establish a presence there but ended up pulling out or going bankrupt.

I think that has more to do with the carriers than the airport. SX could do quite well at GYY, IMO. Heck, I think DL could probably successfully serve ATL from GYY.
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PVD757
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:59 pm

I've always BLV could be a good SX fit for the St. Loius market.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:03 pm

Quoting FLYB6JETS (Reply 8):
Very good point. What is the travel time between Trenton and Midtown?

TTN to Manhattan +/- 70 miles

TTN to Philly +/- 40 miles

TTN's longest runway 6/24 is only 6006' long, but then PGD's (Punta Gorda) longest runway 3/21 is only 6695'

[Edited 2007-10-26 09:14:17]
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:29 pm

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 4):
I can't wait to see the ads for their new "Big Apple" flights from uncongested "suburban" Stewart airport (62 miles & 1.5 hrs to Times Square), or their new service to "Toronto (Niagara Falls)".

I doubt you will ever see that.

Buffalo /Toronto would be a good one for Niagara Falls
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thirteenright
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:13 pm

I would love to see IAG get commercial service again!
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:16 pm

By the way, I hope they don't even THINK of starting to operate in northern NY State in February with 25-minute turnarounds, because if they do, they're going to need more white stuff than will fall from the skies.....

Southwest has been operating successfully from Buffalo over seven years; what are their turnaround times nowadays?

It seems to me that IAG-CMH would be an exceptionally thin market for Skybus to try. Skybus has indicated that they discourage connections; will that many people from Southern Ontario, Buffalo, and Niagara Falls want to fly just to CMH? CMH-GYY makes more sense. Although the drive isn't longer, the potential catchment area on the GYY end for a ULCC is much larger, if by that one means the entire Chicago MSA.

Jim
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luv2fly
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:16 pm

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 7):
More power to them if they can get Gary IN to make money. A lot of LCCs have tried to establish a presence there but ended up pulling out or going bankrupt.

I think IMHO - that GYY is just not the alternative to Chicago that they hope it would be/will be.
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Superfly
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:26 pm

Many airlines that have went to Gary, Indiana have failed but not because Gary was a destination. They would have failed regardless of if they went to Gary.
I hope Skybus is successful with service to Gary.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
Heck, I think DL could probably successfully serve ATL from GYY.

You are correct.  checkmark 
No major airline has operated service to Gary but if there is any airline that would have success in Gary it would be a Delta-Atlanta route.

I have to route for my hometown airport (GYY).  Cool
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United_fan
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:35 pm

AFAIK,IAG has no rental cars or TSA facilities there . IAG's terminal is very small,too. I remember seeing a Kiwi 727 in the mid 90's and a TZ 737 there in 2005. I go right past there on the way to the Outlet mall on occasion.
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ttango
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:51 pm

GYY has incredible potential but requires the following in my opinion:
-Coordination and marketing with the South Shore Line
-Repositioning and construction of the GYY rail terminal
-Express service from downtown to the rail terminal
-Massive marketing/education effort that it is the closest airport to downtown Chicago
-The basics: fly where people want to fly with sufficient frequency at low fares (no carrier GYY has ever had that combination)

To me this is a prime candidate Skybus focus city in 2-5 years when they have built enough of a brand and war chest to properly market the airport. Opening as an outstation now is not a bad idea though.
 
bravogolf
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
Many airlines that have went to Gary, Indiana have failed but not because Gary was a destination. They would have failed regardless of if they went to Gary.
I hope Skybus is successful with service to Gary.

You are correct. The loads from GYY where good to excellent. The problem was elsewere.
 
ScottB
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:52 pm

The big problem with CMH-GYY is that WN flies CMH-MDW seven times daily and they would probably offer $25 or $30 one-way fares to compete with Skybus. Given better schedule choices, comparable fares, better customer experience, free checked baggage, etc., why would people choose SX?
 
Tornado82
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:57 pm

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 6):


Skybus could market Trenton as both New York City and Philly. More bang for the buck.

They could market ABE as the same, and have a better airport facilities wise (longer runways, larger terminal, more parking if it really does go off big) and gain the Lehigh Valley travel market as well. Not to mention ABE would probably throw loads of money at them.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting Ttango (Reply 19):
-Massive marketing/education effort that it is the closest airport to downtown Chicago

 checkmark ...of all of the things you listed above, this is probably the most important.....for better or worse, Gary, Indiana has a stigma to it (of course, it didn't help it was once the "murder capital of the United States"-murders/population)....most people, at least north of Downtown Chicago think Gary, Indiana as "down there" or "in Indiana" or "far away"....

Quoting ScottB (Reply 21):
The big problem with CMH-GYY is that WN flies CMH-MDW seven times daily and they would probably offer $25 or $30 one-way fares to compete with Skybus. Given better schedule choices, comparable fares, better customer experience, free checked baggage, etc., why would people choose SX?

...might be a bit problematic.. scratchchin .....WN has a good "lock" on MDW and offer excellent frequencies and MDW is quite close to downtown as well as easy to get to via the Orange Line "EL-Train"......
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luv2fly
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:19 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 21):
The big problem with CMH-GYY is that WN flies CMH-MDW seven times daily and they would probably offer $25 or $30 one-way fares to compete with Skybus. Given better schedule choices, comparable fares, better customer experience, free checked baggage, etc., why would people choose SX?

You hit the nail on the head.

Even if they kept there fares where they are now, they could fight back by offering bonus miles another feature SX does not offer.
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Tornado82
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:21 pm

People are forgetting that not all SX flights/routes have to be Columbus-centric. Nothing says there would be more than say 1x CMH-GYY as mainly a mx/ferry flight, while the rest of a GYY operation are going to beach/vacation destinations.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:50 pm

The big problem with CMH-GYY is that WN flies CMH-MDW seven times daily and they would probably offer $25 or $30 one-way fares to compete with Skybus. Given better schedule choices, comparable fares, better customer experience, free checked baggage, etc., why would people choose SX?

Good point, which I had not thought of (and should have). Maybe CMH-ABE or CMH-TTN would be better--question would be, would the competition from US at PHL or CO at EWR be sufficient to drive them from the route. Mapquest shows driving distances as follows: MDW and GYY at 31.4 miles apart; TTN-PHL at 43.8 miles apart; TTN-EWR at 52.7 miles apart.

Jim
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itsnotfinals
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:03 am

SX said as early as 2005 they would not serve Chicago, so it will be interesting to watch this rumor.
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USAirALB
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:11 am

I think ALB Should be a great destination close to ROC,SYR about 2 hrs, and 3 hrs to Montreal and bascilly 1 hr to anywhere in Vermont
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panaman
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:52 am

I don't like the CMH to GYY thing. Way to many flights in that market. GSO to GYY sure give them a chance.

CMH/GSO to IAG sure someone will fly for 50 bucks R/T, someone will always fly to somewhere for cheap.
CMH to NYC area, what about ISP does the LIRR run out and close by to the airport?
Sorry I moved from SXM, looking for a new house on Anguilla now!
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 27):
SX said as early as 2005 they would not serve Chicago, so it will be interesting to watch this rumor.

And Southwest said that they would never re-enter DEN. Times change...

Anyhoo, I sure hope to see Skybus at GYY soon. They're an actual scheduled airline and not some fly-by-night public charter, they are highly capitalized, they have new planes, and they could finally put GYY on the map. If SX does open GYY (I sure hope so), my bet is that SX would not just do GYY-CMH/GSO. I could also see GYY-FLL, GYY-PGD, GYY-BUR, and maybe even GYY-SFB if SX finally starts it (what's taking SX so long to enter Orlando?).

As for the railroad issue: Unlike Allegiant's MD-83s (the main reason why G4 does not serve GYY yet), SX's A319s could handle GYY's runway and the railroad tracks without a problem, even when fully loaded.

Speaking of SX, is the new Capital One logojet out of the paint shop yet?

[Edited 2007-10-26 17:58:22]
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777fan
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 21):
Given better schedule choices, comparable fares, better customer experience, free checked baggage, etc., why would people choose SX?

Well (this is a stretch), SX could potentially market the flights as casino shuttles - GYY is close to a number of casinos in extreme Northwest Indiana, not to mention a minor league baseball stadium in Gary and an outlet mall (Michigan City, IN) and (of course), South Bend, IN and the college football HOF. SX would do well on at least one weekend, assuming of course that Ohio State played Notre Dame!


777fan
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Cubsrule
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting Ttango (Reply 19):
-Coordination and marketing with the South Shore Line
-Repositioning and construction of the GYY rail terminal
-Express service from downtown to the rail terminal

Actually, I don't think this is necessary. With the Dan Ryan done and the Skyway construction getting there, driving to GYY is easier than ever.

Quoting Ttango (Reply 19):
-The basics: fly where people want to fly with sufficient frequency at low fares (no carrier GYY has ever had that combination)

As I said before, the problem at GYY historically has been the carriers, not the airport. If SX does what you've suggested, they'll do fine.

And I doubt they'd try CMH-GYY, except maybe to position aircraft. But the whole point is that they hope to become less CMH-centric, and GYY would be a part of that. If they don't offer connecting flights, there's no point in getting in a pissing match with WN when there's much lower-hanging fruit.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):
As I said before, the problem at GYY historically has been the carriers, not the airport. If SX does what you've suggested, they'll do fine.

I agree... people loved flying out of GYY, and GYY routes were among the best performers for the carriers that left. As for SkyValue, the reason they left was because Xtra Airways couldn't lease the planes to them.

If Skybus focuses on Florida, BUR, and a single CMH/GSO (to position aircraft), and then let it grow to a third focus city, they'll do pretty darn good, especially with those $10 fares. And don't forget that GYY has free parking (parking at ORD and even MDW is expensive)... that alone can save a family a bunch of money.

Oh, and I always thought that GYY would be a natural fit for SX... and I guess that GYY is listening. And I sure hope that SX launches GYY-BUR among the first routes...
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7e72004
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:43 pm

What is the GYY airport like? When i think of Gary, i think of a very unsafe area. I think quite a few people would agree. But what is the area like where the airport is located? Anyone here ever flew from GYY?

Also, i know that GYY is also trying to lure Cape Air to start GYY-IND service.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 34):
What is the GYY airport like? When i think of Gary, i think of a very unsafe area. I think quite a few people would agree. But what is the area like where the airport is located? Anyone here ever flew from GYY?

Funny you should ask... I used to live in "The Region". I never flew from GYY, even when I did live in the area, as the fly-by-night public charters kept flying away before we ever got a chance.

But I have been to GYY itself twice. GYY is in a rather bare-bones, industrial area of town, with not many things in the area. (To be honest, it's one of the nicer, safer areas in Gary, which is saying a lot.) There wasn't much to see or do besides count a few planes, which is a good thing for us a.netters. The closest "major attraction" to the airport is the popular Majestic Star Casino and Hotel, about a mile and a half away.

I was only in the terminal once, before the 2001 renovation, so I can't help you there. But the terminal is big enough to handle a bunch of Skybus pax and can be expanded if needed.
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MAH4546
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:12 pm

Gary wouldn't work for Chicago. It's way too close. I was thinking more along the lines of South Bend.  Smile
a.
 
7e72004
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:14 pm

I will be up in SBN on November 13 when i arrive on the first Cape Air flight  Smile
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
bravogolf
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:19 pm

quote=7E72004,reply=34]What is the GYY airport like? When i think of Gary, i think of a very unsafe area. I think quite a few people would agree. But what is the area like where the airport is located? Anyone here ever flew from GYY?
[/quote]
Try looking at the website http://www.garyairport.com
 
7e72004
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:26 pm

I like the baggage claim...has to be the smallest belt i have seen *lol* Thanks for the link
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
steeler83
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 6):
Skybus could market Trenton as both New York City and Philly. More bang for the buck.

That is true, although I think Trenton is just a little bit closer to Philly than it is to Manhattan, and I believe someone posted that above as well...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 22):
They could market ABE as the same

I was also going to say ABE for Philly and the Big Apple...

If they're going to consider GYY as part of Chicago and try and make that a success, all the power to 'em...
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7e72004
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RE: Niagara Falls & Gary For Skybus? Maybe

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:45 am

I think GYY could work, but the question is can they sustain the service?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!

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