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tdscanuck
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 30):
Wonder if other Q400s operator will stop their service with the Q400s. ??

Not quickly...taking Q400's out of service would pretty much put Horizon Air out of business in the near term.

Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 34):
Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 11):
I hope that SAS's action is not a move to keep SAS's maintenance out of the investigation. Without problems at other operators the finger begins to point inward.

This is a pretty crude statement knowing that maintenance personnel are as dedicated to the safety for passengers as the crews operating the aircraft.

Maintenance personnel are supposed to be dedicated to the safety of passengers, but they're also human. There has to be a reason that SAS is seeing a disproportionate number of these failures. It could be simple dumb luck (which is still a reason) but that's unlikely. If it's not dumb luck, it has to be something specific to SAS and it makes sense to make sure that the investigation is impartial, which would bar SAS maintenance (and SAS flight ops and SAS ground ops and...) from the investigation.

Tom.
 
Mortyman
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:58 pm

Is it me or has the handling by Bombardier on this issue been unsufficient. I don't feel they have taken SAS problems as seriously as they should have. They've been saying that the aircrafts are fine and that they are good enough to fly for a little bit to long...
 
Alessandro
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:00 pm

Tds, SAS is a big operator, so if the planes can´t handle the climate in Scandinavia they be the first to notice.
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:01 pm

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 50):
If it's not dumb luck, it has to be something specific to SAS and it makes sense to make sure that the investigation is impartial

Of course all avenues have to be explored, especially since now it has happened 3 times to one airline but airlines with newer aircraft have also had gear problems... Augsburg Airways and ANA for example and SAS also received the first batch of the aircraft (all three involved in the accidents were all delivered within a few months of each other).

But the Canadian goverment and Bombardier have sent crash investigators to Denmark so lets hope they along with the Danish authorities will find out what happened but now SAS has ousted the type from their fleet for good... a good move and will help rebuild their reputation which has been pretty damaged since September.
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Navigator
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:05 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 48):
nor has the Q400 been a poor performer for SAS all along.

It has been a lousy performer for SAS all along. There has never been anything comparable in the SAS fleet ever. And remember that SAS has always had an excellent operational reputation in the airline industry. There is no question the Q400 has a quality SAS is not used to. But maybe smaller operators dedicated to props and it´s peculiarities can take better care of this prop that not even the manufacturer can avoid admitting has some serious technical issues.
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sebring
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:05 pm

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 52):
Tds, SAS is a big operator, so if the planes can´t handle the climate in Scandinavia they be the first to notice.

Considering the planes are built in Canada and flown in Canada which has as least as hard a winter as Scandinavia, doubt weather by itself is an issue, though it could be in conjunction with other issues.
 
columba
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:10 pm

Quoting SmoothDash7 (Reply 32):
How about the CRJ?

With their collaboration with Cimber Air they are not completely unfamiliar with the type.

I Guess the - 700, sizewise, would be able to do the job?

After having a problem with a Bombardier product I don´t think they will opt for another one anytime soon.
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Alessandro
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:11 pm

Sebring, but as humid? On a sidenote Bombardier built trains as well, large problem in Sweden with these due to that they couldn´t handle the climate.
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davidkunzVIE
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:12 pm

OS might take some of these gratefully.
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Navigator
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:12 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 55):
Quoting Alessandro (Reply 52):
Tds, SAS is a big operator, so if the planes can´t handle the climate in Scandinavia they be the first to notice.

Considering the planes are built in Canada and flown in Canada which has as least as hard a winter as Scandinavia, doubt weather by itself is an issue, though it could be in conjunction with other issues.

I agree. I do not think the scandinavian weather has been a cause for the problems. I think the plane was pressed into the market a bit too soon by Bombardier. Maybe it should have been debugged before entering service with SAS.

Maybe large airlines used to operate larger jets should avoid operating the very different props like the Q400. It could be that procedures and technical needs are different from what larger airlines like SAS are used to?? Props should perhaps stay with operator specialized in operating regional planes. Could this be a factor?
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iflyac
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:16 pm

Well whatever aircraft SAS replaces the Q400 with, hopefully they will actually service it this time to avoid future problems.  idea 
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Boeing77W
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:16 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 46):
Going for props was a mistake SAS will not do twice I think

Why do you think this? Turboprops such as the Dash 8 are highly economical and the Q400 is a very technologically advance aircraft. They can seriously reduce operating costs for carriers compared to jets of similar size
 
B747forever
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:17 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 56):
After having a problem with a Bombardier product I don�t think they will opt for another one anytime soon.

That is true, and now when SAS are going to the court with this they will definitely not order more Bombardiers.
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting Iflyac (Reply 60):
hopefully they will actually service it this time to avoid future problems

Pretty defensive comment really... Maybe Bombardier has just left out some "important" things from its safety manuals... like what caused the first 2 incidents.. a faulty bolt.... I really hope other airlines rethink their orders for the Q400 because i do not want to see a repeat of the last couple of months events.... But lets wait for the results of the investigation eh?
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9252fly
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:21 pm

I'm having difficulty understanding how all of a sudden SK managed to have three incidents with the right landing gear on their DH4 fleet in such a short period. The statistical likelyhood of it happening leads me to want an explanation. I appreciate that they were the launch customer and may have had an excessive amount of issues as is sometimes the case with early delivery models. It would seem to me that a new operator may want to replace the landing gear on these units. It's my view that these aircraft will continue to fly with other operators in the future.
 
iflyac
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 63):
Pretty defensive comment really... Maybe Bombardier has just left out some "important" things from its safety manuals... like what caused the first 2 incidents.. a faulty bolt.... I really hope other airlines rethink their orders for the Q400 because i do not want to see a repeat of the last couple of months events.... But lets wait for the results of the investigation eh?

Slightly defensive, I'll give you that, but three incidents involving right side gear? You are right, we should wait until the results of the investigation, but it still sounds funny to me. Patronizing 'eh' noted.
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keesje
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:30 pm

Wow A RADICAL DECISION

from a marketing operational standoint risky

what about the next few months, resale value of the aircraft etc..

guess they had the scenario ready for the occasion

a hrascgh statement by the CEO & a blow for Bombardier

No doubt the boys from Brazil are already on their way for a meeting tommorrow

with even less competition then normally..  Sad
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teme82
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:31 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 13):
The big problem for ATR is that after that unfortunate crash with the ATR72 due to wing icing in 1994, I'm not sure if SAS wants to buy the ATR72 to replace the now-phased out Dash 8-Q400's

lol... Back here FC uses ATR72's and without problems so I say they are safe. And since that thing happened over 10 years ago so I would say the problem is fixed  Wink
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:33 pm

well the first two incidents involved this bolt in the right hand landing gear, which was attributed to the manufacturer not including this in its safety manuals.. But lets see what was the cause of the 3rd incident was.

But remember that Denmark has one of the most highly regulated aviation industries in the world topped off with SAS being an airline that prides itself on safety.. This should be taken into account... Also the Q400 has seen more gear related issues as a whole than any other aircraft i have come across.. food for thought maybe.
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B747forever
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:33 pm

Quoting Iflyac (Reply 65):
, but three incidents involving right side gear?

And why would that be strange??? It just happens to be the right landing gear.
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XaraB
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:33 pm

IIRC, there were some newspaper reports in Norway a couple of years ago about poor maintenance in SAS, namely their longhaul Airbus aircraft, which apparently hadn't had the necessary engine maintenance for a long time. Can't find a link to this, however...

But if it's true, SAS should not have a reputation for always being a safety-minded airline...
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:36 pm

Quoting XaraB (Reply 70):
there were some newspaper reports in Norway a couple of years ago about poor maintenance in SAS

Was it VG by any chance? Then i'd ignore this... can't find anything about this in the Danish press online...
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sebring
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:41 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 63):
Pretty defensive comment really... Maybe Bombardier has just left out some "important" things from its safety manuals... like what caused the first 2 incidents.. a faulty bolt.... I really hope other airlines rethink their orders for the Q400 because i do not want to see a repeat of the last couple of months events.... But lets wait for the results of the investigation eh?

So why isn't this happening worldwide? There are Q400 operators all over the world, some with many more units than SK. Right now, perhaps we should not fly on Q400s or SK.
 
B747forever
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:43 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 72):
So why isn't this happening worldwide?

It does happens all around the world. A few weeks ago a accident happened in MUC. In August a accident happened in South Korea and the accident with ANA can you forgot.

So it doesn't just happens with SAS
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lnglive1011yyz
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 4):
Pretty radical that...but absolutely acceptable! Let Bombardier find out what going out in this plane and how why this is happening mostly with SAS! I applause this move from SAS!!!

I think SAS needs to also include their own maintenance department in the same investigation.

The fact that other airlines have been flying this type almost as long, with absolutely ZERO problems, indicates that this is something that is unique to SAS's batch of planes.

Could it be manufacturing defects? Of course.
Could it be shoddy maintenance? Of course.
Could it be an unlikely but possible saboteur? Of course.

EVERYTHING needs to be investigated.

Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 11):
I hope that SAS's action is not a move to keep SAS's maintenance out of the investigation. Without problems at other operators the finger begins to point inward.

That's what most logical people have said in the two threads recently. The people who are pointing solely at the manufacturer are jumping to conclusions that have absolutely no evidence as of yet.

This has become a point the finger thing rather quickly, without any investigations at all.

Keep in mind folks -- I'm sure part of the reason SAS has decided to permanently ground these planes is related to the fact that their employees have spoken and indicated that they will no longer fly the plane. It looks better on SAS to just shut them down permanently, than to have employee and customer groups launching lawsuits, freaking out,and having an all-out media circus.

This is business guys.. not an avaition forum LOL

1011yyz
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727200er
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:45 pm

A good decision by SAS, even though I am a huge fan of the Dash. I think BBD should be going at this differently, they should seriously look at taking these birds back.
"they who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only at night" - Edgar Allen Poe
 
SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 72):
So why isn't this happening worldwide? There are Q400 operators all over the world, some with many more units than SK. Right now, perhaps we should not fly on Q400s or SK.

Well some airlines such as Flybe operate the Q400 as the backbone of their fleet and removing these from their fleets immediately will cripple the airline... but i am surprised that ANA and Augsburg Airways haven't grounded their fleets yet seeing as they also suffered gear problems before...

I wonder how many orders will be cancelled because of this... if airlines get concerned that is...
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vv701
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:47 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 49):
What is being done with the crews? Replacing an aircraft type involves replacing the aircraft themselves, sure, but it also involves re-training the flight crews.

 checkmark 

So in the short term SK may be looking to wet lease aircraft while a longer term solution is found involving their own flight crews. Several European airlines specialise in serving the wet lease market. One possible solution is the 146. Both WDL (WE) in Germany and Flightline (B5) in the UK operate this aircraft primarily on a short term wet lease basis.

In addition to five 146s WE operate twelve F-27s which could also be useful. B5 have eight or nine 146s in their fleet as well as a couple of ATR42s and three MD83s. Another European airline specialising in short term wet leasing is Titan Airways (T4). They have four 146s in their fleet as well as five 733s and a single 752.

One question of course is how many of these aircraft are currently out on lease. I think that LX currently have one of B5s aircraft substituting for the RJ100 that is out of service being repaired after its very heavy landing at LCY.
 
FlyingAY
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:48 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 13):
The big problem for ATR is that after that unfortunate crash with the ATR72 due to wing icing in 1994, I'm not sure if SAS wants to buy the ATR72 to replace the now-phased out Dash 8-Q400's. I'm sure Horizon Air might take the Q400's once they pass a full C-check overhaul, though.

Here in the neighbouring country Finnair/Finncomm/Aero have operated ATR-72 and ATR-42 for years successfully and the temperature falls under -25C regularly during winters. The plane does not have an unsafe image here and I doubt it would have such in Sweden, Denmark or Norway either. Anyway, that crash was more than 10 years ago and the issue is already fixed...
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:50 pm

regarding the flight crews: SK will undoubtedly have a surplus of flight crews in the coming months as a replacement type will not be available to SK quickly. and all wetleasing done by SK (dry-leasing is obviously no choice here) to cover the DH4-phase out means that those crews will not fly for SK anytime soon.
perhaps some crews will be taken over by SK mainline, but the number can't be too high.

apart from their currency issues (they need to maintain their licenses!), SK surely will look at leasing out their crews for the foreseeable future. there are lots airlines, especially here in Germany, which find it hard to get new pilots. I'm sure the same applies to other countries.
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OV735
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:52 pm

Quoting XaraB (Reply 70):
IIRC, there were some newspaper reports in Norway a couple of years ago about poor maintenance in SAS, namely their longhaul Airbus aircraft, which apparently hadn't had the necessary engine maintenance for a long time. Can't find a link to this, however...

But if it's true, SAS should not have a reputation for always being a safety-minded airline...

I remember reading about that too, some people here were worried that such cost-cutting measures could transfer from SK to OV which the former partially owns. The fact that the incidents only seem to happen to SK planes is strange, but I strongly doubt a systematic lack of maintenance or cutting of corners is the cause. If it indeed was poor maintenance, they would have had it cheaper to improve right after the first incident rather than waiting for the other ones to happen and then go through a nightmare of replacing 20+ aircraft. It wouldn't make much sense, in my opinion.
 
Alessandro
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:56 pm

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 74):
Quoting CV990 (Reply 4):
Pretty radical that...but absolutely acceptable! Let Bombardier find out what going out in this plane and how why this is happening mostly with SAS! I applause this move from SAS!!!

I think SAS needs to also include their own maintenance department in the same investigation.

The fact that other airlines have been flying this type almost as long, with absolutely ZERO problems, indicates that this is something that is unique to SAS's batch of planes.

Well, Augsburg patched their crashed one up after two days, I would like to hear where you got the facts from that other had zero problems with this aircraft?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Jj
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:57 pm

Many people are talking about the other airline's incident with the landing gear, but if IIRC, both the ANA and the Augsburg airways incidents involved the nose landing gear, and therefore they are probably unrelated.

Now let's look at it this way: SAS's Dash 8's are surely among the oldest in service. BUT, they are not the only old Dash 's in service. Austrian and Horizon also have some of the earliest examples in service, and so far, they haven't had the issues that SAS is having. And their utilization is also high. So...

*SAS's planes are not the ONLY old Q400's flying
*THREE times in the past two months or so, the right landing gear of an SAS Dash8 has collapsed. What are the chances of that happening? To the same airline? The exact same landing gear?
*The other old Q400's haven't suffered from these problems


I believe that the possibility of SAS maintenance being at fault should not be discounted. I'm not trying to start any paranoid theory, but pointing the finger only at bombardier is, if anything, rushed. I wouldn't say bombardier alone is at fault unless some other carrier has an exact same problem. But seeing it hasn't happened yet, in my mind, something could be at fault in sas's maintenance division. I'm not saying it's intentional (as in sabotage), but perhaps the airline is the one with deficient procedures?
 
ek036
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:58 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 44):



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 44):
Maybe Flybe and SAS can do a swap

What about the B717 that qantas had where have these ended up? didnt qantas want more Q400 for regional ops?

[Edited 2007-10-28 10:02:33]
 
XaraB
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:59 pm

Quoting XaraB (Reply 70):
IIRC, there were some newspaper reports in Norway a couple of years ago about poor maintenance in SAS

http://www.hangar.no/articles/503/1/...r-gangtidsbestemt-vedlikehold.html

This is the closest thing I could find that looks somewhat like the case I think I remember... Only in Norwegian, though...
An open mind is not an empty one
 
Qantas744er
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:01 pm

This will cost a lot money for SK! Removing the planes from the system...all the ex. Q400 crews will need training onto a new type of aircraft and sure that this will not be cheap either etc. etc.

I hope this will not hit SK to bad financially this year! And time that bombardier gets their sh*t together with this plane...

Bombardier gives fault to the gear maker in this case Goodrich, but it is not in the interest of the customer what supplier is fault, because they ordered and bought the plane from Bombardier then Bombardier needs to deliver them a working plane and if there are problems then they need to resolve them together with suppliers to create the least amount of inconvience for their customer.

Leo
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cumulus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:02 pm

Why is it just SK who had all these incidents??? Is there a maintenance issue here?
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legacy135
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:04 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 49):
What is being done with the crews? Replacing an aircraft type involves replacing the aircraft themselves, sure, but it also involves re-training the flight crews. Presumably, there will be a fair amount of downtime until a replacement fleet is found and acquired....will the pilots be paid their usual salary throughout the downtime and through training?

 checkmark 
That is it, exactly! Airplanes are here relatively quick, but the crews is another factor. JAA and EASA didn't make it easier as well, so be aware, from now, if you send the crews to train tomorrow, it will be about 3 months till you can send them out to fly. Don't forget all the flights they need to do under supervision coming to a new type.

If an operator should be that lucky to get a number of people from somewhere, holding ratings for the related type, they still need to transition into the new company what isn't that fast either. So either way, changing such a big number of aircraft from one day to another as SAS is about to do it, is a real big job to do.
I am sure, SAS is fully aware about, but they decided that the loss of confidence and reputation would result worse for the company than dropping the entire fleet. But A-Neters should not underestimate the job for SAS to be done either.

I for myself, have to say: Respect to SAS! They take a big step, do know about the consequences and will not shy the money nore the work to replace the entire fleet.

Cheers

Legacy135  Wink
 
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breiz
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:05 pm

Quoting Teme82 (Reply 5):
Smart move but what to replacement??

I can tell about the immediate kind of replacement. I am flying SVG-CPH tomorrow. It was supposed to be a Q400, it is now a MD-80 (type not detailed on my e-ticket).
And by the way, my original flight is cancelled and I am re-booked on an earlier flight.
 
UN_B732
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:06 pm

Could QX take these ex-SK Q400s, after maintenance is performed on them?

-A
What now?
 
hloutweg
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:06 pm

Could this decision derive in further consideration, or even, the eventual acquirement of the Russian SSJ100?


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How does this new jet compares in economics to prop engined aircraft. As far as we know, the Russian plane hasn't taken off yet, but it promises to be better than the EMB-190 series. What do you guys think?
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sebring
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting Jj (Reply 82):
I believe that the possibility of SAS maintenance being at fault should not be discounted. I'm not trying to start any paranoid theory, but pointing the finger only at bombardier is, if anything, rushed. I wouldn't say bombardier alone is at fault unless some other carrier has an exact same problem. But seeing it hasn't happened yet, in my mind, something could be at fault in sas's maintenance division. I'm not saying it's intentional (as in sabotage), but perhaps the airline is the one with deficient procedures?

And with older aircraft of any type, an airline has to be asked about the source of its spare parts. Much has been written about cut-rate parts leading to safety problems. It doesn't have to be a case of wilfull malfeasance. Somebody else's replacement part may be less durable over time than parts from the original equipment manufacturer. You can have a diligent maintenance department following recommended procedures that are fully up to snuff, but if the parts they use aren't up to the job, well, that's a problem, too.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:09 pm

I really don't think people have been listening to what i am saying. The first two incidents have already been attributed to a faulty bolt, which Bombardier didn't include in the maintenance manuals.... Of course the 3rd accident seems to be different.

Unfortunately no airline has the time to check every nut and bolt in an aircraft but when it is located near to or attached to a gear mechanism then surely a manufacturer should be recommending they be checked on a regular basis.. No one knows an aircraft better than the people who design and build it... Maybe i am pointing fingers here but a preliminary cause of the first accidents have been released...
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YULWinterSkies
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 24):
I think the only example of a similar dumping of an entire aircraft fleet type, is Singapore Airlines dumping of the A340-300s which made a huge dent in the possibilities of the A340 afterwards.

SQ 340??? Withdrawn, but not grounded and without any incident involved. Just the willing of Boeing to buy them back and give an excellent deal on the 777. This was not a decision taken in one day either, but a medium/long term fleet plan.

An excellent other example though is Concorde. One crash and that was almost the final end right away... I think SK is right. At least until thorough investigations by SK and Bombardier and mutual agreement that problems are fixed...

Quoting Keesje (Reply 66):
from a marketing operational standoint risky

I doubt it will be as bad as a Q400 crash. Just think about SK image if one crashes after 3 had similar landing incidents in the previous months...

Quoting Keesje (Reply 66):
a hrascgh statement by the CEO & a blow for Bombardier

No doubt SK management prefers to see Bombardier's shares sink rather than SK's.
When I doubt... go running!
 
sebring
Posts: 1331
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:12 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 92):
Unfortunately no airline has the time to check every nut and bolt in an aircraft but when it is located near to or attached to a gear mechanism then surely a manufacturer should be recommending they be checked on a regular basis.. No one knows an aircraft better than the people who design and build it... Maybe i am pointing fingers here but a preliminary cause of the first accidents have been released...

An airline has many choices. It can do more checks than the manufacturer requires, and it can go back over its records to see where they were buying the bolts. The people who design and build aircraft have control over what they install, airlines are not compelled to use the original equipment manufacturers when sourcing replacement parts. They can buy used parts and they can buy discounted new parts from alternate sources, and the aircraft manufacturer can's inspect all of the parts on the aftermarket.
 
B747forever
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:21 pm

Quoting Cumulus (Reply 86):
Why is it just SK who had all these incidents???

Why are not people listening. SAS doesn't just have this problems. What do you guys says about the accident in MUC, the accident with ANA and the accident in South Korea in August??
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:25 pm

Well the Q400 has had an incredibly high number of gear related incidents.... Unusually high dont you think?? I can think of a number of aircraft like the 777 that never have had a gear collapse before and have been in service longer...

8 in 3 years... There must be a general gear problem with the aircraft...
Base: BRU
 
cf105arrow
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:47 pm

RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:33 pm

AC Jazz could purchase them at a good price and do an extensive maintenance/check on them.
 
sebring
Posts: 1331
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:35 pm

Eight in 3 years, and how about most airlines having none in three years, or 10 years?

When you are talking about a cluster of problems in a fleet of older aircraft, a cluster not repeated elsewhere, logic dictates that what is happening at the carrier is at least as important if not more important than the original design or recommended maintenance procedures.
 
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RE: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s!

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:35 pm

Quoting Cumulus (Reply 86):
Why is it just SK who had all these incidents??? Is there a maintenance issue here?

All airlines operating the Q400:s have had serious problems with the plane.

This is not an SAS issue but rather a Bombardier issue. Investigations by aviation authorities in many many incidents with the Q400 have shown that SAS has followed all applicable maintenance procedures.

Those of you who have not followed the history of Q400 events in recent years may question this, but those who know facts will never question SAS procedures or operations.

And those of you who say that other airlines have had no problems with the Q400 are in need of facts in the matter.
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