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hmmmm...
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Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:18 pm

This is a question for some real history buffs. I can't find the answer.

What is the smallest heavier-than-air aircraft to ever cross the North Atlantic ocean non-stop, say from Newfoundland to Ireland? And by smallest, I mean MGTOW.
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:21 pm

Lindberg's plane "Spirit of St. Louis"

 spin 

Filler...

filler...

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:32 pm

Are you sure, or is that just a guess?
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:35 pm

The Spirit was a Ryan NYP which was a mod of the M-2 best I remember. I would guess that the NYP stood for NY to Paris.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:40 pm

Quoting Hmmmm... (Thread starter):
What is the smallest heavier-than-air aircraft to ever cross the North Atlantic ocean non-stop, say from Newfoundland to Ireland? And by smallest, I mean MGTOW.

ScanEagle (see the last paragraph):
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...neagle/news/2003/q1/nr_030205m.htm

MGTOW < 40 lbs.

Tom.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:42 pm

Okay, I thought it was understood that I was taking about an aircraft carrying a human. Smart guy.  Wink
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
kellmark
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:43 pm

I would say it has to be the Flight Design Light Sport Aircraft tthe CTSW and CT2K.

They have not only flown across the Atlantic, but recently around the world as well. It is supposed to be a tremendous aircraft, far better than the new Cessna Skycatcher.

Here is a link.

http://www.flightdesignusa.com/

Check their news section and you will find the around the world flight from India.
 
flyPBA
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:45 pm

The Aerosonde is a small unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) designed to fly over oceans in order to collect weather data, including temperature, atmospheric pressure, humidity, and wind measurements. The Aerosonde is powered by a modified Enya R120 model aircraft engine, and carries onboard a small computer, meteorological instruments, and a GPS receiver for navigation.


On August 21, 1998, a Phase 1 Aerosonde nicknamed "Laima", after the ancient Latvian deity of good fortune, completed a 2,031 mile (3,270 km) flight across the Atlantic Ocean. This was the first crossing of the Atlantic Ocean by a UAV and the Aerosonde is smallest aircraft to cross, as well. Launched from a roof rack of a moving car due to its lack of undercarriage, Laima flew from Newfoundland, Canada to an island off the coast of Scotland in 26 hours 45 minutes in stormy weather, using approximately 1.5 U.S. gallons (1.25 imperial gallons or 5.7 litres) of gasoline. Other than for take-off and landing, the flight was autonomous, without external control, at an altitude of 5,500 ft (1,680 meters). The Aerosonade was the first unmanned aircraft to launch itself into a hurricane in August 2005.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:15 pm

Thanks Kellmark,

I noticed it said one flew from Germany to Toronto, but I wonder if it went via Iceland. Unless it was rigged to carry a huge fuel tank inside the cabin, it wouldn't have the range. I have a feeling it did a typical ferry flight similar to what we see on this map:

http://www.tmoser.ch/typo3/19.0.html

I am wondering about straight across the Atlantic non-stop.
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overcast
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:50 pm

As UAVs are included, have a look at this

http://tam.plannet21.com/

Truly amazing.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:07 pm

UAVs are not included. I am interested in the smallest plane a person has flown direct non-stop across the Atlantic.
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timz
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:07 am

Max Conrad used to deliver Pipers, didn't he? He flew a Pacer nonstop across the US, so maybe he delivered one to Europe without stopping in Iceland/Greenland.

Lessee... Casablanca to El Paso was his 1750-kg record, wasn't it?

Come to think of it, his Pacer flight might have been a record too-- which would have to have been a 1000-kg record?

(Dunno how much Spirit of STL grossed, but gotta be lots more than 1750 kg-- right?)

[Edited 2007-10-28 18:24:42]

[Edited 2007-10-28 18:28:57]
 
bond007
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 10):
I am interested in the smallest plane a person has flown direct non-stop across the Atlantic.

So ....a person has flown IN .. , not flown ... right??  Smile

For non-stop, they certainly sometimes ferry some Pipers and Cessnas non-stop from St. Johns to the Azores .. presumably with ferry tanks of course. I'll have to check some data.


Jimbo
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:21 am

OK, this one wasn't non-stop, but it's certainly interesting:

http://www.diamondair.com/news/07_23_04.php
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 12):
For non-stop, they certainly sometimes ferry some Pipers and Cessnas non-stop from St. Johns to the Azores ..

Ahh, but that would not be non-stop across the Atlantic. You have to make it to at least Ireland on the other side.
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bond007
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 14):
, but that would not be non-stop across the Atlantic. You have to make it to at least Ireland on the other side

So tell us the exact rules and it might help  Wink

St.Johns to Azores is 'North Atlantic'.


Do you mean

Quoting Hmmmm... (Thread starter):
say from Newfoundland to Ireland?

Or do you mean only Newfoundland to Ireland??

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:25 am

The best way in my opinion to define 'Transatlantic' is the passing from one side of the Mid Atlantic Ridge, to the other by air. You do though have the problem that it runs right through Iceland, so it would be possible to fly transatlantic in that case without ever having crossed the ocean, therefore it is usually considered that Iceland is entirely on the European side.


Dan Smile
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A346Dude
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 13):
OK, this one wasn't non-stop, but it's certainly interesting:

http://www.diamondair.com/news/07_23...4.php

Actually, the Twin Star has crossed the Atlantic non-stop. Mentioned here: http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/products/2004/nov.html

"The Diamond Twin Star has recently made an appearance at the EAA AirVenture and, on its way back home, became the first Diesel-engine-powered aircraft to cross the Atlantic nonstop."

Notice they do not say the smallest...

Edit: More info here http://www.diamond-air.at/news_detail+M51a9d9ae970.html

Route was St. John's, Newfoundland to Porto, Portugal.

[Edited 2007-10-28 20:44:59]
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
MMEPHX
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 1):
Lindberg's plane "Spirit of St. Louis"

among the likely candidates....empty weights...


The Ryan NYP weighed 2,105lbs

Virgin Atlantic Global Flyer (which crossed the Atlantic but obviously didn't stop on either side) weighed 3,350lbs

The Vickers Vimy that made the first crossing was a "hefty" 7,100lbs
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 6):
http://www.flightdesignusa.com/

That made it across the Atlantic?!?

Oh, I was being flip about the spirit of St. Louis. But its amazing it weight, empty, less than a metric ton considering the weight of the engine alone!

Lightsaber
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EZYAirbus
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 16):
therefore it is usually considered that Iceland is entirely on the European side.

Not according to our tour guide Roger on the Golden Circle Tour of Iceland Dan  Wink

Glenn
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akfotoman
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:10 am

How about this, Mira Slovak flew a Fornier RF-4D across the Atlantic from Germany to Santa Paula California in the 1960s. He crashed the powered glider after doing a hero pull-up on a flyby, but later recovered to fly aerobatics professionally in a Buker Jungman.
 
phllax
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:55 am

How about Douglas "Wrong Way" Corrigan who flew from Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn, New York, to Ireland in 1936.
 
MMEPHX
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting Akfotoman (Reply 21):
How about this, Mira Slovak flew a Fornier RF-4D across the Atlantic from Germany to Santa Paula California in the 1960s.

The RF-4D was only 600lbs (and 36hp!) but he didn't make it non stop. A great story though.

http://www.cfiamerica.com/Mira_Slovak-RF-4D-1700.html
 
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CaptSkibi
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:05 pm

I know you guys are only interested in a plane that carried a human, but for those who are interested in anything, there was a radio controlled (okay, GPS guided) model plane that flew Trans-Atlantic in 2003 on less than a gallon of fuel.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_200401/ai_n9400487

Quote:
Hand-launched by Maynard and piloted by Joe Foster, on August 9, 2003, at 7:45 p.m. (local time) from Cape Spear, Newfoundland, the model flew a distance of 1,882.3 miles in 38 hours and 52 minutes before being landed in Clifden, County Galway, Ireland, on August 11 at 2:08 p.m. (local time) by AMA President Dave Brown, thus completing a flight of historic proportions.

http://tam.plannet21.com/
Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / former frequent flyer with 9 straight years being elite on NW/DL
 
sphealey
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:48 pm

Peter Garrison flew his homebuilt Melmoth from Gander to Shannon and then from Cold Bay Alaska to Tokyo. It looks pretty small to me  Wink

sPh
 
KELPkid
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:19 pm

Quoting Timz (Reply 11):
Lessee... Casablanca to El Paso was his 1750-kg record, wasn't it?

Having dealt with US Customs at ELP a few times (after entering the country via private aircraft), I'm sure that there were lots of questions when one claimed that their point of origin was Casablanca  Smile
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KELPkid
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:21 pm

Anyone ever ferried a Cessna 150 across the pond?

The reason that I ask is that the 150 that I soloed in (with an admittedly spartan instrument panel  Wink ) only weighed 960 pounds with no fuel or no occupants on board.
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tjwgrr
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 27):
Anyone ever ferried a Cessna 150 across the pond?

Light singles are ferried across the Atlantic all the time, but stops in Greenland and Iceland are typical.
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richierich
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:58 pm

I don't know about "smallest" or "lightest" but Alcock and Brown's Vickers Vimy in 1919 seems like it should get the award for the flimsiest aircraft. It was also the first, ahead of Lindbergh (Lucky Lindy was the first solo pilot to cross the Atlantic Ocean).
None shall pass!!!!
 
Fairchild24
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:50 pm

Dear All

I know a couple of years ago ,a Swed named Pierre Hollender flew his Pitts 2 over the Atlantic,
and at this time it was mention in the Guinness book of records,
but that was before public/private GPS and high performance Ultralights
By the way the longest leg on a trans Atlantic crossing is only 400nm between
Greenland and Iceland and between Iceland and Norway.

brgds

Göran
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:05 pm

Quoting EZYAirbus (Reply 20):
Not according to our tour guide Roger on the Golden Circle Tour of Iceland Dan

Very true, that adds to the confusion. In that case, we've both taken a bus transatlantic... and I don't mean an Airbus!  silly 

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 28):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 27):
Anyone ever ferried a Cessna 150 across the pond?

Light singles are ferried across the Atlantic all the time, but stops in Greenland and Iceland are typical.

I few weeks ago in Flores (FLW), the most Westerly island of the Azores I spotted a C172 which looked like it was tanking up to begin a very long flight. I lost count of the number of time the pilot carrier Jerry cans across to it.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
works4boeing
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:48 pm

Quoting Phllax (Reply 22):
How about Douglas "Wrong Way" Corrigan who flew from Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn, New York, to Ireland in 1936.

I was thinking that too. The Curtis Robin was pretty darn small.
 
rampart
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:51 pm

Wikipedia mentions someone named Stanislaw Skarzynski who completed a solo flight across the Atlantic in a very light plane called a RWD-5. said to weigh less than an 450kg. Never heard of Skarzynski nor the aircraft, nor the event, nor the veracity of the Wikipedia entry, but that would seem to be one of the lightest and earliest Atlantic crossings. The RWD-5 looks something like a Piper Cub or Bellanca.

And then I just read that you wanted NORTH Atlantic, so ignore all the above if you want, but it's still interesting.

-Rampart
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:02 pm

Someone made a post on here over the summer with a radar screen shot they had taken of a C172 mid atlantic going non-stop from Newfoundland - Teesside, UK.

There was a discussion about it, and someone estimated that would be over 17 hours non-stop at the cruising speed of a C172 !!.

Can you imagine over 17 hours in a SEP over the Atlantic saying to yourself "the engine doesn't know it's over water" followed by, "the engine doesn't know it's over water and it's dark" !! not to mention the lack of IFE and toilet facilities !!.

 Smile
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KELPkid
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:14 pm

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 34):
Can you imagine over 17 hours in a SEP over the Atlantic saying to yourself "the engine doesn't know it's over water" followed by, "the engine doesn't know it's over water and it's dark" !! not to mention the lack of IFE and toilet facilities !!.

Smile

That's where I'd not wanting to think "Did I top off the crankcase to 8 quarts before I left?" Also, I'm sure that they would have cruised at max. endurance speed, not max. cruise...that would make for one SLOW trip  Wink

I'm sure that they would have had to add ferry tanks for that one, somehow I don't think the long range tank option in the 172 gives you ~3000 NM range  Smile
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flipdewaf
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:55 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 35):
That's where I'd not wanting to think "Did I top off the crankcase to 8 quarts before I left?" Also, I'm sure that they would have cruised at max. endurance speed, not max. cruise...that would make for one SLOW trip Wink

I'm sure that they would have had to add ferry tanks for that one, somehow I don't think the long range tank option in the 172 gives you ~3000 NM range Smile

max endurance speed isnt really what you want is it, no good staying up for hours if you arnt going anywhere fast. What we are looking for is max value for Speed x Lift/Drag, then we get the best fuel consumption per mile as apposed to max fuel consumption per hour.

Fred
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tjwgrr
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RE: Smallest Plane To Ever Cross The N Atlantic

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:19 pm

Here's a Beech Bonanza that recently jumped across the pond from Lincoln Park, NJ (N07) to Ottawa (CYQB) to Goose Bay (CYYR) to Narsarsuaq (BGBW) Greenland and most likely beyond.....

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N92RW

Interesting to look at Narsarsuaq (BGBW) arrivals. Cirrus, C182, Bonanza..... all singles passing through:

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/BGBW/arrivals:
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.

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