Malev To Suspend BUD-YYZ And JFK

krisyyz · Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:16 pm

Malev's new owners have decided to axe the airlines two trans-atlantic routes for the winter season. Both BUD-YYZ and BUD-JFK will stop operating by mid November and will resume by March/April 2008. MAs B762 will be leased out untill the spring, the B763 will operate the BUD-BKK and charter ops during the winter months.

Sad news, I guess money talks and the North American routes weren't profitable enough to maintain service during the slow winter season. Hopefully this is just a temporary move and these routes will resume year round service once Malev is in a better financial situation. I would imagine that MA will not be receiving the new B763 which was scheduled to enter service in the spring of 2008.

http://www.malev.hu/BP/ENG/I_NEWS_ENG/2007-1029-1551-07PGDK.asp

KrisYYZ

LAXintl · Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:26 pm

I suppose DL operating nonstop to BUD these days does not help MA JFK service.

Anyhow, why does MA need token long haul services anyways? Should instead focus on its small European hub and serving short & medium haul Hungary O&D traffic.

OceansWorld · Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:30 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Thread starter):
I would imagine that MA will not be receiving the new B763 which was scheduled to enter service in the spring of 2008.

IIRC one of MA's two B762ER is to go to Varig this coming November, so if the airline intends to restart its YYZ and JFK services next Spring it'll need another aircraft to replace the one going to Brazil, unless the B763 isn't used on the BKK route anymore.

bartond · Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:30 pm

Doesn't MA run two daily flights to Toronto? Doesn't seem like they would cut this route but I bet they know more about their own flights than do I.

So will this leave MA with no transatlantic service during the winter months?

PEET7G · Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:41 pm

Well, the word is that MA struck a gr8 deal for leasing out it's 762s and that the 763s are still scheduled to arrive as originally planned. As for JFK and YYZ, now that they are in OW they can offer both destinations with a wide variety of schedules with a minimum inconvenience of small connecting times... at least this is th PR crap that we get. I hope also that this will be temporary and that the new owners will stand up to their promises and expand MA drastically in both Short and long-haul.

fun2fly · Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:56 pm

In the early 90's, the Malev JFKJ>BUD route was a pretty good experience all the times I took them. Sad to see them taking a downturn. Nice to have Unicum on the flight to pass the time.

Byrdluvs747 · Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:58 pm

For years I've been wishing for AA to begin ORD or JFK to BUD. What is the premium traffic like on US-BUD routes?

OceansWorld · Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:05 pm

Quoting Fun2fly (Reply 5):
Nice to have Unicum on the flight to pass the time.

I personally prefer some Tokaji.

For those who don't know what Unicum is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicum

[Edited 2007-10-29 13:11:54]

FoxBravo · Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting Fun2fly (Reply 5):
Nice to have Unicum on the flight to pass the time.

Do they really serve Unicum on Malev? That's fantastic!

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 7):
I personally prefer some Tokaji.

For those who don't know what Unicum is...

I got hooked on both after my visit to Budapest last year. It's not easy to get Unicum in NYC, but I finally found a place that sells it. Tokaji is somewhat easier to find, but the good stuff isn't cheap!

WildcatYXU · Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:00 pm

That hurts. It was my favourite way how to reach the family in Europe...

Quoting Bartond (Reply 3):
Doesn't MA run two daily flights to Toronto?

No. It wasn't even daily. IIRC it was 5 times a week.

krisyyz · Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:46 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 2):
IIRC one of MA's two B762ER is to go to Varig this coming November, so if the airline intends to restart its YYZ and JFK services next Spring it'll need another aircraft to replace the one going to Brazil, unless the B763 isn't used on the BKK route anymore.

True. AFAIK, LHA was suppose to be going to RG in October, but I flew on her from YYZ to BUD this past friday. That would mean that LHB will be leased out in the coming weeks as well. This news kind of surprised me as none of the MA crew on my flight was aware of the winter suspension of service.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 4):
Well, the word is that MA struck a gr8 deal for leasing out it's 762s and that the 763s are still scheduled to arrive as originally planned.

That would make sense as both of the B762 have low cycles thereby making them very attractive on the leasing market.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 4):
now that they are in OW they can offer both destinations with a wide variety of schedules with a minimum inconvenience of small connecting times

As stated in the press release, MA customers will be able to connect to JFK via AA from ZRH. I guess the only connection to YYZ using OW would be BA from LHR, but since MA doesnt operate to LHR anymore, MA customers would have to fly with BA for the entire route. I would imagine that such connection would make fares rise considerably than what MA charged for the non-stop service.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 4):
I hope also that this will be temporary and that the new owners will stand up to their promises and expand MA drastically in both Short and long-haul.

So do I my friend. But I foresee further cuts in service and in the fleet untill MA starts making money.

Didnt OK also stop its PRG-YUL-YYZ service? If so, eastern europe will be much more expensive to reach from Toronto.

KrisYYZ

FLYACYYZ · Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 10):
Didnt OK also stop its PRG-YUL-YYZ service? If so, eastern europe will be much more expensive to reach from Toronto.

OK is reportedly cancelling it's flights to Canada sometime in the near future. This may give OS & LO reason to increase their winter services to VIE & WAW respectively, which are also traditionally scaled back during the winter.

WildcatYXU · Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 10):
Didnt OK also stop its PRG-YUL-YYZ service? If so, eastern europe will be much more expensive to reach from Toronto.

Not only that. It is a complication for many of our relatives, who don't speak English and live in the region. A nonstop flight from BUD or the KSC-PRG-YYZ route was an excellent solution. VIE is much further away and the connection to WAW is so shitty, that it isn't even worth to mention it.
Furthermore, I know a lot of people flying to other Eastern European destinations trough PRG or BUD. Now all that will be gone.

Aleksandar · Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 4):
I hope also that this will be temporary and that the new owners will stand up to their promises and expand MA drastically in both Short and long-haul.

I also hope this is temporary. Leaving long-haul market is not a good idea, but it is not very wise to keep it going with the product that is beasically the same as it was in 1993 when those services were introduced.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 10):
True. AFAIK, LHA was suppose to be going to RG in October, but I flew on her from YYZ to BUD this past friday

Will you write a trip report and show us some pics, too? bouncy

pnwtraveler · Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:05 pm

In short order the other day AeroSvit, Aeroflot, and Lot all landed in a row at YYZ. CSA and Malev cutting back will increase what people have to pay to get to those locations. There are so many connecting flights through Frankfurt, Munich, Dusseldorf, and even LHR (if you are very very desperate) that getting there will be a pain but possible. My German friend brags all the time to me about his cheap fares to Prague. I think he is exagerating or leaving off the taxes.

VictorKilo · Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 12):
Furthermore, I know a lot of people flying to other Eastern European destinations trough PRG or BUD. Now all that will be gone.

When I flew the JFK-BUD sector on MA back in the summer of 2006, I'd say that over half the flight had connections at BUD onward to other Eastern European destinations, primarily SKP and TIA. The MA staff had a difficult time communicating with many of them who spoke only one language - which wasn't English or Hungarian.

transair737 · Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:54 am

Too bad a shot of Unicum sure would be great before having a nap for the rest of the flight!

semsem · Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:57 pm

Tarom stopped their service completely. I always liked the service on Malev.

krisyyz · Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:17 pm

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 13):
Will you write a trip report and show us some pics, too?

For sure, I took lots of pics and some videos. I'll PM you when I post my trip report.

KrisYYZ

commavia · Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:19 am

Is MALEV just not really wanting to justify a small fleet of 767s anymore, just for a few longhaul flights to JFK, YYZ, BKK, etc.? As for the JFK flight, specifically, if MALEV no longer wanted to operate the small 767 fleet, perhaps they could work out some sort of revenue-sharing deal with AA for AA to operate the route daily with one of their 763s. On the other hand, though, MALEV/Hungary may not want to lose this very prestigious (BUD-JFK) route.

AF022 · Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:07 am

Who are they leasing their B762 to?

Aisak · Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
if MALEV no longer wanted to operate the small 767 fleet, perhaps they could work out some sort of revenue-sharing deal with AA for AA to operate the route daily with one of their 763s

That's being currently worked out. Earlier this year, AA applied for Antitrust inmunity with transatlantic partners IB, AY, MA and RJ. Maybe we'll see a 50-50 profit-sharing AA 763 doing JFK-BUD in March'08 but that's no going to help the language issues with eastern Europe passengers stated above.

fun2fly · Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 8):
Quoting Fun2fly (Reply 5):
Nice to have Unicum on the flight to pass the time.

Do they really serve Unicum on Malev? That's fantastic!

Glad to see someone else appreciates having local drinks served on the flight. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the DL service won't have it.

I now see this marketed in the US as ZWACK - must have a better marketing name. Available in the local stores in the midwest. Proceed w/caution.

krisyyz · Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
Is MALEV just not really wanting to justify a small fleet of 767s anymore, just for a few longhaul flights to JFK, YYZ, BKK, etc.? As for the JFK flight, specifically, if MALEV no longer wanted to operate the small 767 fleet, perhaps they could work out some sort of revenue-sharing deal with AA for AA to operate the route daily with one of their 763s. On the other hand, though, MALEV/Hungary may not want to lose this very prestigious (BUD-JFK) route.

The problem is not with the small fleet of 767s, but with the enormous costs of operating a small number of trans-atlantic flights. Toronto is one of the most expensive airports to operate out of, JFK isnt cheap either. A Malev employee told me that even if their B762 is operating at full capacity out of YYZ, the airline still ends up losing a small amount of money. The sale conditions set by the Hungarian Government that MA was bought under make the cancellation of long-haul service to North America by the new owners next to impossible.

The plan is to have 3 B763s by early 2009, but who knows if that will actually happen.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 20):
Who are they leasing their B762 to?

No idea.

The paperwork to suspend the flights was suppose to be signed and by the end of today so the airline may inform the involved authorities (NYPA, GTAA, FAA, NAV Can, etc.) According to an MA employee the suspension wasn't confirmed today and both trans-atlantic flights are still open on the airlines computer system.

KrisYYZ

FoxBravo · Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 22):
Glad to see someone else appreciates having local drinks served on the flight. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the DL service won't have it.

I don't believe they do. However, in fairness to DL, when I took their JFK-BUD nonstop I thought the service was excellent, and I was impressed to see at least two Hungarian-speaking flight attendants on board.

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 22):
I now see this marketed in the US as ZWACK - must have a better marketing name. Available in the local stores in the midwest. Proceed w/caution.

Yes, but one thing to watch out for is that what they sell here as "Zwack Liqueur", in the same round bottle but with a red cap, is not the same as Unicum. I believe it's what they sell in Hungary as "Unicum Next"--it's sweeter and (I think) sort of tastes like cough syrup. Real Unicum is also available at some stores, but check the label.

fun2fly · Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 24):
Yes, but one thing to watch out for is that what they sell here as "Zwack Liqueur", in the same round bottle but with a red cap, is not the same as Unicum. I believe it's what they sell in Hungary as "Unicum Next"--it's sweeter and (I think) sort of tastes like cough syrup. Real Unicum is also available at some stores, but check the label.

That kind of detail will get you on my respected user list. Nice work. Next time I have some, I'll toast one to you.

donder10 · Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Bartond (Reply 3):
Doesn't MA run two daily flights to Toronto? Doesn't seem like they would cut this route but I bet they know more about their own flights than do I.

I think it's about 5 weekly in summer with 2 different fligh

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 9):
No. It wasn't even daily. IIRC it was 5 times a week.

Maybe the previous guy thought it was 2 daily because Malev use 2 different flight numbers depending on whether the flight is earlier(MA93/4) or later in the evening (MA95/6). LOT also do this at YYZ.

FoxBravo · Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 25):

Cheers!

AFGMEL · Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:42 am

I was considering flying them from BKK. Good deal. Then my travel agent told me that they were suspending BKK next (northern hemisphere) summer because they needed the aircraft for New York. Confused

commavia · Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:47 am

To me, it is starting to sound more and more like with MALEV's justifiable aversion to operating such a small sub-fleet and such a small long-haul network, it may well be smarter to just drop longhaul altogether and let AA do the JFK-BUD (and who knows? in a few years maybe ORD-BUD, too) route. From the sound of it, YYZ - despite potentially high summer loads - is still not profitable, and MALEV can't get any online codeshare feed from that flight anyway. Besides, YYZ can easily be reached via AA/Eagle codeshare over JFK. As for BKK, that would cut BUD off from the East, but perhaps a deal could be worked out with CX - I know, I know, this is a stretch - for maybe 3-4x weekly A340s HKG-BUD. That would give BUD and the entire MALEV Eastern European network huge distribution to virtually every major throughout Asia.

AlitaliaMD11 · Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 20):
Who are they leasing their B762 to?

HA-LHA will be leased to Varig and HA-LHB to Oman Air.

AF022 · Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 30):
HA-LHA will be leased to Varig and HA-LHB to Oman Air.

I'm a little confused. Wouldn't they get rid of all their 767s or none? Leasing out HA-LHB makes a small fleet smaller, no? And why would Oman Air want a B762?

AlitaliaMD11 · Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 31):

I'm a little confused. Wouldn't they get rid of all their 767s or none? Leasing out HA-LHB makes a small fleet smaller, no? And why would Oman Air want a B762?

They are leasing out the 767-200 fleet and will keep the 767-300 to do sub-charters to BKK. I'm assuming Oman Air is leasing out the 767-200 to get a head start on their new long-haul flights to LGW and BKK. Both aircraft will return to Malev in March 2008.

alespesl · Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 14):
In short order the other day AeroSvit, Aeroflot, and Lot all landed in a row at YYZ. CSA and Malev cutting back will increase what people have to pay to get to those locations. There are so many connecting flights through Frankfurt, Munich, Dusseldorf, and even LHR (if you are very very desperate) that getting there will be a pain but possible. My German friend brags all the time to me about his cheap fares to Prague. I think he is exagerating or leaving off the taxes.

I beleive that CSA still operates their flights to YYZ , YUL and JFK and will continue to operate them. Probably there will be even more connecting pax via PRG after Malev suspending its ops to YYZ and JFK.

WildcatYXU · Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:45 am

Quoting Alespesl (Reply 33):

I beleive that CSA still operates their flights to YYZ , YUL and JFK and will continue to operate them.

CSA was about to operate the flights to Canada until June next year. However, with the recent changes Czechs may discover Canada again and that may give CSA a reason to keep the line alive.

krisyyz · Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 26):
Maybe the previous guy thought it was 2 daily because Malev use 2 different flight numbers depending on whether the flight is earlier(MA93/4) or later in the evening (MA95/6). LOT also do this at YYZ.

Slight correction. MA BUD-JFK operate under MA 90/91 BUD-YYZ operate MA 94/95 for the earlier flights on Tuesdays and Saturdays and MA 96/97 for the other late evening flights on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 30):
HA-LHB to Oman Air.

Thanks for the info,

AFAIK, LHA will not be returning to MA. LHB, as mentioned will return to MA in March.
So during the summer of 2008, MA should have 3 B767s, 2 B763s (LHC and one newly leased ) and the 1 B762 (LHB)

KrisYYZ

Viscount724 · Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 34):
Quoting Alespesl (Reply 33):

I beleive that CSA still operates their flights to YYZ , YUL and JFK and will continue to operate them.

CSA was about to operate the flights to Canada until June next year. However, with the recent changes Czechs may discover Canada again and that may give CSA a reason to keep the line alive.

Canada also just eliminated the visa requirement for Czechs (and Latvians) visiting Canada which should help OK traffic to Canada, although I believe they were previously planning to drop the route as mentioned above.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/departm...edia/releases/2007/2007-10-31a.asp

OceansWorld · Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 10):
True. AFAIK, LHA was suppose to be going to RG in October

HA-LHA has been ferried yesterday (November 1st) BUD-TLV before going to Varig as PR-VAC.

HA-LHB will be wet-leased to Oman Air 23 Nov 2007-late March 2008.

Source: Skyliner Aviation.

krisyyz · Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 36):
Canada also just eliminated the visa requirement for Czechs (and Latvians) visiting Canada which should help OK traffic to Canada, although I believe they were previously planning to drop the route as mentioned above.

I herd on the news last night that a Canadian Government delegation will be coming to Budapest next week to discuss eliminating the VISA requirement for Hungarians as well. I don't think that MA would change their mind about the service suspension to YYZ due to the elimination of VISAs, but it would most certainly increase traffic down the road.

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 37):
HA-LHA has been ferried yesterday (November 1st) BUD-TLV before going to Varig as PR-VAC.

HA-LHB will be wet-leased to Oman Air 23 Nov 2007-late March 2008.

Thanks!
Great, I guess my chances of flying back to Toronto on LHC are somewhat better now.

KrisYYZ

laca773 · Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:40 am

I'm sorry to hear MA is cutting their JFK flights. I hope they'll bring them back as a stronger and thriving carrier.

By chance how's DL doing on their JFK-BUD-JFK flights?

LACA773

OceansWorld · Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 37):
HA-LHB will be wet-leased to Oman Air 23 Nov 2007-late March 2008.

MA's long-haul fleet is now down to just one B767 as HA-LHB has been ferried yesterday to CHR to be painted in Oman Air colors.

laca773 · Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 40):
MA's long-haul fleet is now down to just one B767 as HA-LHB has been ferried yesterday to CHR to be painted in Oman Air colors.

That's really sad. I'm sorry to hear that. What will MA eventually do about longhaul?

LACA773

AF022 · Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:37 pm

When does Oman Air get their own long-haul aircraft? What are they going to do after the winter season? What are they going to do with the aircraft this winter?

OceansWorld · Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:51 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 42):
What are they going to do with the aircraft this winter?

To start five times weekly flights to BKK.

http://www.omanair.aero/wy/aboutus/a..._media_presrelses/releases_141.htm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 42):
When does Oman Air get their own long-haul aircraft?

My guess is that their first A330-300 is to arrive in time for the summer schedule. The seating chart is already online.

http://www.omanair.aero/wy/aboutus/a...utus_fleet_information/a330300.htm

[Edited 2007-11-19 08:55:34]

krisyyz · Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 43):
To start five times weekly flights to BKK.

So there might be 2 MA 767s parked at BKK sometimes? that would be an interesting sight. I doubt that they would repaint LHB since the wet-lease is only for a few months.

MA is placing crews in Oman for 1 month rotations to staff LHB.

KrisYYZ

gordarpi · Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:48 pm

Here we go: http://lflx.free.fr/ha-lhb-01.jpg

OceansWorld · Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:54 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 44):
I doubt that they would repaint LHB since the wet-lease is only for a few months.

I didn't answer to it before, but I thought that if Oman Air pays for it, they'll do it anyway.

Quoting Gordarpi (Reply 45):

Was the picture taken at BUD ?

Thanks for sharing.

[Edited 2007-11-22 09:58:42]

777way · Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:45 pm

Wikipedia says they are quitting Bangkok too.

OceansWorld · Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:55 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 47):
Wikipedia says they are quitting Bangkok too.

It doesn't really say that they are quitting BKK, and it is an unsourced information.

krisyyz · Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting Gordarpi (Reply 45):
Here we go: http://lflx.free.fr/ha-lhb-01.jpg

Great pic!
The Oman c/s make LHB look really stubby.

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 46):
I didn't answer to it before, but I thought that if Oman Air pays for it, they'll do it anyway.

At least she will get a fresh coat of paint when she returns to MA, if she returns.

I also herd that the MA crews are being placed in Oman for one month rotations and that they aren't too happy with that.

KrisYYZ

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