Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:16 am

Do any of you fine Central American aficiandos know of a cargo airline based in SJO by
the name of Phoenix-Airlines. They operate B727F. I can not find any pictures or reference to
them in any official site. Appreciate any information you may provide. You can pm if you like.
Thanks,
GARUDAROD
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
laca773
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 49):
SAL-LAX is a key route for TA operating up to three daily flights sometimes with their own aircrafts, taking into account the daily service with 321.
UA has extended the code-share agreement with TA and LAX is one the hubs for UA.
Other routes for TA's 321: IAD-SAL, LIM-GRU, MIA-MGA, LIM-CCS, SJO-BOG, among others including some entirely in Central America.
Regards

Thanks for the information. In fact I was thinking that during the upcoming holiday season, is it safe to say TA/LR can run 321 to GUA, SAL & SJO from LAX?

LACA773
 
AA767LOVER
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:59 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Juanchito (Reply 3):

In December, Guate also gets a 757 from IAH to GUA. I saw it last Christmas while on the pool deck at Holiday Inn, here in Guate.

We should meet up sometime and talk about airplanes. I'm gonna be at the airport on Wednesday. I might take some pics there.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
AA767LOVER
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:59 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting CM767 (Reply 17):

I had thought that the 739 doesn't have very good range? Might look good, but doesn't mean it flies good. I'm one of the ones who thinks CM should have a 739, but long range may not make it. I always thought that the higher number series will have a longer range and better performance? I flew the 73G from PTY to GRU. That was harsh for a 6.5 hour flight!! However, what made up for it was the upgrade to Business. On the way back, I took Econ. That was painful for a big guy like me!!
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
User avatar
tomascubero
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:18 am

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 50):
Do any of you fine Central American aficiandos know of a cargo airline based in SJO by
the name of Phoenix-Airlines. They operate B727F. I can not find any pictures or reference to
them in any official site. Appreciate any information you may provide. You can pm if you like.
Thanks,
GARUDAROD

Hi There,

Well I shouldn't be saying or posting this but the details about Phoenix Airlines were told to me a long time ago (2 years maybe?). A friend from the US told me they would be starting services with a 727-200 and extending to a DC-8-73 and eventually a 767-300. The last thing I heard was around maybe 6-8 months that they had leased a Lochkeed Electra from MexJet Cargo and were doing SJO-PTY-MEX runs for a while until in PTY one of its engines hit a ground APU unit and was written off.

Here are two photos of what the livery should have been like:




I never heard anything more about them since then...

Regards,
Tomas.
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 54):
Well I shouldn't be saying or posting this but the details about Phoenix Airlines were told to me a long time ago (2 years maybe?). A friend from the US told me they would be starting services with a 727-200 and extending to a DC-8-73 and eventually a 767-300. The last thing I heard was around maybe 6-8 months that they had leased a Lochkeed Electra from MexJet Cargo and were doing SJO-PTY-MEX runs for a while until in PTY one of its engines hit a ground APU unit and was written off.

Tomas,
Thank you for the info. I am wondering why you said you shouldn't post anything about them?
I heard about the incident in PTY but I thought it was on a B72F, not an Electra. I had heard they were
supposed to have two B72F operating currently, with one based at Havana. This reason I ask, I am
supposed to start working for them, but I cant find any information that they are ACTUALLY operating.
Do you know if they have been designated as a flag carrier for Costa Rica?
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
User avatar
tomascubero
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:21 pm

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 55):
Tomas,
Thank you for the info. I am wondering why you said you shouldn't post anything about them?
I heard about the incident in PTY but I thought it was on a B72F, not an Electra. I had heard they were
supposed to have two B72F operating currently, with one based at Havana. This reason I ask, I am
supposed to start working for them, but I cant find any information that they are ACTUALLY operating.
Do you know if they have been designated as a flag carrier for Costa Rica?

Hi There,

I said it because when the photos were sent and that they were not sure if to start and if the scheme was to be seen publically but it was a long time ago these were sent to me so it doesn't really mater.

Yes, it was on a Lockheed Electra, XA-AEG to be more exact. I really want to take a photo of it but it would stay on the ramp for around 4 days at SJO and then just around a month of operating flights that incident happened and I never saw it again. Well if they are based in Havana then I cannont confirm that they are not operating but I guarantee you there is now 727 based here or any Phoenix Airlines coming into SJO.

You know, now that I think about it, around two months ago, a 727-200F that belonged to Lloyd Boliviano Cargo was ferried from the Desert to SJO for COOPESA, could it be this the first 722F for Phoenix? I have a friend who works at Coopesa and I will ask him to see to which airline it is going to and if it is actually here because in those two months I have not seen any 727 at COOPESA apart from a DHL Aero Expresso Panama 727-200F which was in for some checks, I will let you know later today.

Best Regards,
Tomas.
 
User avatar
tomascubero
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:48 pm

Ok I just called my friend at COOPESA and says there are no 727's there at the moment, and I do recall this coming down from the Desert even though it flew to LIR because of bad weather at SJO that day:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N998PG

It is not at Liberia and I would guess it is not here either so maybe just a fuel stop going down South?

Regards,
Tomas.
 
CM767
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:58 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:39 pm

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 53):
I had thought that the 739 doesn't have very good range?

I believe that the 900 without additional fuel tanks can go about 2,700 nm

Theoretically the following are in range:
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) HAV (22°59'21"N 82°24'33"W) 348° (N) 978 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) 8° (N) 2200 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) MEX (19°26'11"N 99°04'20"W) 300° (NW) 1498 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) BOG (04°42'11"N 74°08'18"W) 129° (SE) 469 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) IAD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) 3° (N) 2060 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) MIA (25°47'36"N 80°17'26"W) 357° (N) 1152 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) GYE (02°09'27"S 79°53'01"W) 182° (S) 772 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) SDQ (18°25'47"N 69°40'08"W) 44° (NE) 916 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) SJO (09°59'38"N 84°12'32"W) 281° (W) 335 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) CCS (10°36'11"N 66°59'26"W) 81° (E) 851 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) LIM (12°01'19"S 77°06'52"W) 173° (S) 1458 mi
a 900 could cover most of the rotes.

Out of range the following, and for me the only that could probable could use a 900 is LAX
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) 135° (SE) 3154 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) GIG (22°48'32"S 43°14'37"W) 132° (SE) 3285 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'26"W) 310° (NW) 3010 mi
But The Best Thing God Has Created Is A New Day
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24624
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:58 pm

Hola to all our Central American A.net compadres.  wave 

Bit of info I posted in another thread about Spirit Airlines is that it will discontinue its daily LAX-GUA service effective January 8th.

Spirits loads have been poor since the flights launch in May averaging only in the ~60% range.

While Spirit offered some terrific market rates its inability to sell via ethnic travel agencies and consolidators which pretty much own the LA-Central America market doomed the service.
In addition the carrier totally lacked advertising to entice direct bookings which itself is somewhat more difficult as internet and even credit card usage is lower amongst LA's Central American communities. (personally I'm not sure Spirits ultra LCC concept is fully workable in ethnic markets)

I'm sure UA & TA will be pleased along with DL whom might see its service survive a little longer now with Spirits crazy pricing out of the market.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
aer
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:10 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:55 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 59):
ven credit card usage is lower amongst LA's Central American communities

I was proven right! Well maybe a good airline can fill in the slot.

Speaking about LCCs, how does Interjet seem to you?
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3055
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 51):
is it safe to say TA/LR can run 321 to GUA, SAL & SJO from LAX?

I don't believe this way because they only have four 321s in their entirely fleet.
On the other hand, the 321s are being used as well for the routes listed out in my early post.
I've heard about great loads for TA LIM-GRU with the 321.


.

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 53):
I had thought that the 739 doesn't have very good range? Might look good, but doesn't mean it flies good. I'm one of the ones who thinks CM should have a 739, but long range may not make it

CM rather placed an order for four additional 738s for delivery in 2011 and 2012.
http://www.copaair.com/nuestraempres...ticias/noticia.aspx?ID=119&lang=en


.

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 53):
I always thought that the higher number series will have a longer range and better performance?

With similar powerplants in these models, as long as the loads rise more fuel is required implying the range decreases as shown below.

..Type.....Maximum standard range.......MTOW (lb)........MT (lb).........Capacity (pax)
737-700..............3365 nm......................154 500........2x 26 300.............126
737-800..............3060 nm......................174 200........2x 27 300.............162
738-900..............2700 nm......................187 700........2x 27 300.............180

MTOW: maximum take-off weight
MT: maximum thrust
Source: boeing.com
** Typical technical characteristics. Other versions are available.


.

Quoting CM767 (Reply 58):
Theoretically the following are in range:
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) HAV (22°59'21"N 82°24'33"W) 348° (N) 978 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) 8° (N) 2200 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) MEX (19°26'11"N 99°04'20"W) 300° (NW) 1498 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) BOG (04°42'11"N 74°08'18"W) 129° (SE) 469 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) IAD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) 3° (N) 2060 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) MIA (25°47'36"N 80°17'26"W) 357° (N) 1152 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) GYE (02°09'27"S 79°53'01"W) 182° (S) 772 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) SDQ (18°25'47"N 69°40'08"W) 44° (NE) 916 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) SJO (09°59'38"N 84°12'32"W) 281° (W) 335 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) CCS (10°36'11"N 66°59'26"W) 81° (E) 851 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) LIM (12°01'19"S 77°06'52"W) 173° (S) 1458 mi
a 900 could cover most of the rotes.

Out of range the following, and for me the only that could probable could use a 900 is LAX
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) 135° (SE) 3154 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) GIG (22°48'32"S 43°14'37"W) 132° (SE) 3285 mi
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'26"W) 310° (NW) 3010 mi

It is better to show the distances using nautical miles instead in order to compare them with the range of the 739.
1,1516 miles = 1,00 nautical mile.
It's quite interesting the current usage of CM's 738s for the long routes PTY-EZE and PTY-LAX, among many others in their network abroad.


.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 59):
Spirit Airlines is that it will discontinue its daily LAX-GUA service effective January 8th.

They will also downgrade FLL-GUA 3x weekly.

Regards.  Smile
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
aer
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:10 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 61):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 59):
Spirit Airlines is that it will discontinue its daily LAX-GUA service effective January 8th.

They will also downgrade FLL-GUA 3x weekly.

So NK is really doing bad in GUA then? I would have never imagine that, well AA and TA must be happy.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Topic Author
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:47 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 61):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 59):
Spirit Airlines is that it will discontinue its daily LAX-GUA service effective January 8th.

They will also downgrade FLL-GUA 3x weekly.

Now this one isn't an ethnic vfr market, so the downgrade probably has very little to do with the web bookings and onboard purchases challenges that seem to have doomed the LAX flights. So if it's more of a loads issue, woudn't an FRS tag-on during the upcoming high tourist season help?
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3938
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:09 pm

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 63):
woudn't an FRS tag-on during the upcoming high tourist season help?

Doubt it.


I think you will see the same thing if NK comes to BZE.....although they will get about 60% of the pax being US originating .....locals here want to walk into a airline ticket office to buy their tickets....they don't use the web / credit cards..even the corporate clients here send checks down to the local CO and AA offices.

This is also the reason DL has struggled...no brick and motar office.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3055
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:08 am

TA has displayed the schedule for the new service SAL-MGA-SAL on ATR.
They are already operating 2x daily SAL-MGA with Airbus equipment.

LR 717.........SAL 12:05..........MGA 13:15
LR 716.........MGA 13:45.........SAL 14:55
Starts: December 06th.


.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 64):
locals here want to walk into a airline ticket office to buy their tickets....they don't use the web / credit cards

I agree with your point. This could be a clue to explain NK's schedule reduction considering they are e-ticket exclusively.
I would add the following:
a. Some Central Americans dislike red-eye schedules.
b. The strategy offered by AA in Central America to response NK's services posted out on reply 11.
In fact, NK has not announced the red-eye FLL-SJO for the upcoming high season despite AA will start the year-round FLL-SJO shortly.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
laca773
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 59):
Hola to all our Central American A.net compadres.

Bit of info I posted in another thread about Spirit Airlines is that it will discontinue its daily LAX-GUA service effective January 8th.

Spirits loads have been poor since the flights launch in May averaging only in the ~60% range.

While Spirit offered some terrific market rates its inability to sell via ethnic travel agencies and consolidators which pretty much own the LA-Central America market doomed the service.
In addition the carrier totally lacked advertising to entice direct bookings which itself is somewhat more difficult as internet and even credit card usage is lower amongst LA's Central American communities. (personally I'm not sure Spirits ultra LCC concept is fully workable in ethnic markets)

I'm sure UA & TA will be pleased along with DL whom might see its service survive a little longer now with Spirits crazy pricing out of the market

I was wondering how Spirit was doing on the LAX-GUA route. They are basically completely bare bones. I know they charge to check even one bag not to mention the amount of luggage most passengers travel with internationally.
I had forgotten about the credit card only thing going on inflight even for a damn bottle of water. Does anyone know if they even offered a dried up or soggy sandwich of some sort in the form of BOB.
Any thoughts if anyone will pick that route up from Spirit? F9, AS etc..?
It seems like the best service on the GUA route right now is TA. Full meals and such. BTW, how is the catering? Good, marginal etc..?

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 61):
I don't believe this way because they only have four 321s in their entirely fleet.
On the other hand, the 321s are being used as well for the routes listed out in my early post.
I've heard about great loads for TA LIM-GRU with the 321.

Thanks for the information. I learned something knew. I was under the impression they had at least ten or were going to have a fleet of ten 321s? Are they planning on purchasing or leasing any more? It seems like a great a/c to fly on these higher density flights.
What's the best site to look up current fleet stats?

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 61):
738-900..............2700 nm......................187 700........2x 27 300.............180

I knew that the standard 739 would probably not be ideal for Copa to utilize but was thinking with the new advance 739ER version might be much more doable and work for them over the standard 739?

LACA773
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:24 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 66):
I knew that the standard 739 would probably not be ideal for Copa to utilize but was thinking with the new advance 739ER version might be much more doable and work for them over the standard 739?

I don't think any airline is ordering the standard B737-900 since Boeing launched the -900ER version. 1-2 B737-900ER could do wonders for CM route network, as for CM "long-haul" routes, the -900ER might not be suitable for MVD, EZE, GRU and GIG. but must likely would do O.K. PTY-LAX, PTY-SCL or PTY-COR (if ever needed on that route).
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:38 pm

CM will fly 4x Day to HAV starting in January, according to La Prensa. Also CM received a new 738 last week bringing the total fleet to 26 737s and 10 E190s.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 67):
I don't think any airline is ordering the standard B737-900 since Boeing launched the -900ER version. 1-2 B737-900ER could do wonders for CM route network, as for CM "long-haul" routes, the -900ER might not be suitable for MVD, EZE, GRU and GIG. but must likely would do O.K. PTY-LAX, PTY-SCL or PTY-COR (if ever needed on that route).

Boeing does not produce the 900 non ER anymore. Now about CM, why have a subfleet of just 2 aircraft? I dont think the 739ER would be justified in CMs fleet, more 738s is th way to go. The investment required for adding 739s would not be justified when compared to the small increase in marginal revenue.

Even if the 739 has cockpit commonality with the 73G/8 it is a different beast, higher weight, and with a very very very low tail-strike angle which would probably require additional training. Also it might have slightly different systems.

I would expect CM to continue adding 738s and maybe replace some 73Gs with 738s.

I have heard rumors that CM will be exercising options for an additional 10 E190s and some more 73s. Between CM and P5 they will be one of the largest E190 operators out their.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 68):
CM will fly 4x Day to HAV starting in January, according to La Prensa.

I'm still waiting for CM to add SCU on their network, a twice/thrice weekly E190 PTY-SCU, regardless of the times would more likely be a good performer. Cuba isn't only HAV and I think VRA doesn't fit into CM furutre destination list rightnow.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 68):
I would expect CM to continue adding 738s and maybe replace some 73Gs with 738s.

A B737-800 might have some problems on EZE/MVD-PTY, even GRU-PTY afternoon flight on a hot Brazilian summer day.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 68):
I have heard rumors that CM will be exercising options for an additional 10 E190s and some more 73s.

ADZ is such a E170 route, I wish CM would get a pair of those, not only for ADZ but for CUN and PUJ low season and even MAO/POS.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 69):
ADZ is such a E170 route, I wish CM would get a pair of those, not only for ADZ but for CUN and PUJ low season and even MAO/POS.

Again you run into the same problem of having a small sub fleet of aircraft, it kills your flexibility. Besides the 170 and 175 are slightly different than the 190 and 195, so a small amount of additional training is required. I think it is better to just fly with the empty seats than to have a small fleet of 2-3 E70s, Besides I thought ADZs loads had improved.

As far as SCU i dont know much about the city, the problem is that it is not really a big tourist destination and it is not an important economic center, all roads lead to Havana in cuba and it is one of CMs premium cash cow routes. Maybe Varadero could be added in the future as a 2 a week flight a la Punta Cana.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3055
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 66):
I was under the impression they had at least ten or were going to have a fleet of ten 321s? Are they planning on purchasing or leasing any more?

I am not aware about the current status, but they are expecting one more 321, as far as I know.
"TACA placed an order for 14 additional aircraft to a previous order with Airbus on December 14, 2004. Airbus will deliver 26 passenger aircraft (five A319s, 16 A320s and five A321s) to TACA between April 2005 and September 2009." From: deagel.com



.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 66):
What's the best site to look up current fleet stats?

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/aircraft.php?search=set&airline=TA&al_op=1

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
laca773
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 71):

I am not aware about the current status, but they are expecting one more 321, as far as I know.
"TACA placed an order for 14 additional aircraft to a previous order with Airbus on December 14, 2004. Airbus will deliver 26 passenger aircraft (five A319s, 16 A320s and five A321s) to TACA between April 2005 and September 2009." From: deagel.com



Quoting Luisca (Reply 70):

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/aircraft.p..._op=1

Thanks so much for the information SJOtoLIR! It's greatly apreciated. I learn more and more every day.
Saludos.
LACA773
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting Luisca (Reply 70):
As far as SCU i dont know much about the city, the problem is that it is not really a big tourist destination and it is not an important economic center, all roads lead to Havana in cuba and it is one of CMs premium cash cow routes.

SCU is Cuba 2nd largest city, it's closer to Jamaica and Haïti than HAV. It's true that SCU isn't a huge tourist destination like VRA but is located in an area near the eastern Cuban resorts. Also Cuban Guantamano, Holguin and Camagüey are closer to SCU than HAV and those are other major Cuban cities. Cuba is as long as Centralamerica, so for those wishing to visit Southeastern Cuba, even U.S. Cubans, CM to SCU would be a natural choice.
What would be very funny if CM flies to SCU is that there could be these confusions @ PTY among bags and passengers to SCL, STI and SCU.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:39 pm

Luisca, what are your opinions on B737-700 cargo/passenger?
Boeing has (or had) a B737-700 combi version available and surely that B737 version would be great for CM PTY-KIN/PAP/MAO, but I would see a problem with Business class cabin and its own toilet on a combi B737.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Topic Author
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:05 pm

Flight CM796 doing the SAP-SJO-PTY run this morning seems to have experienced some sort of mechanical failure. SJO controllers scrambled fire engines and ambulances, but fortunately the E190 landed at 0833 local time without further incident.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3938
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:54 pm

CO has just announced increase service to BZE....not much more but still an increase, effective Dec 1 it is 2Xdaily to IAH and 3XSat/Sun to IAH + 1Xweekly to EWR..

According to the new manager here..they added the extra sunday flight as they are booked pretty solid for the next three months....and are consideering going 3Xdaily Feb 1.

The EWR route has just never taken off really.....despite what should be heavy O&D
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
User avatar
tomascubero
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 75):
Flight CM796 doing the SAP-SJO-PTY run this morning seems to have experienced some sort of mechanical failure. SJO controllers scrambled fire engines and ambulances, but fortunately the E190 landed at 0833 local time without further incident.

Hmm I think it left SJO for PTY and came back. This is because the flight was sent one Final Loadsheet at 8:20am and another around 9:50am, both for SJO-PTY, the only two messages that look relevant to this emergency are:

ACARS mode: b Aircraft reg: .HP1557
Message label: RA Block id: M [Uplink]
Flight id: CM0796
Message content:-

QUASRV1CM~1MSJE
DISCULPE CAPTN QUE LE HAYAMOS ENVIADO
PAPELERIA
ES QUE POR ERROR NOS INFO QUE LA ACFT
QUE PRESENTABA
PROBLEMAS ERA EL CMP381.
SOCC.
ORIG.: JOSE BRACHO
-------------------------------------[08/11/2007 08:32]

ACARS mode: b Aircraft reg: .HP1557
Message label: C1 Block id: N [Uplink]
Flight id: CM0796
Message content:-
.ASRV1CM 081439
AGM
AN .HP1557/FI CM0796/MA 045I
-
BUENOS DIAS CAPITAN FAVOR INFORMAR
STATUS/ END
ORIG.: LUCIANO VEGA
-------------------------------------[08/11/2007 08:39]

And just now AA971 MIA-SJO suffered a birdstrike on landing:

ACARS mode: 2 Aircraft reg: .N14061 [A300 AAL]
Message label: C1 Block id: S Msg. no: X09
Flight id: AA0971
Message content:-
BIRD STRIKE...ENGINE PARAMETERS
ABNORMAL

-------------------------------------[09/11/2007 15:43]

One minute later the pilot seems to correct the message.

ACARS mode: 2 Aircraft reg: .N14061 [A300 AAL]
Message label: C1 Block id: V Msg. no: X98
Flight id: AA0971
Message content:-
BIRD STRIKE...ENGINE PARAMETERS NORMAL


-------------------------------------[09/11/2007 15:44]

It seems she is leaving back to MIA regularly as AA988 as it has already been sent the flight plan via ACARS and has asked for ATC clearance already.

Regards,
Tomas.

[Edited 2007-11-09 14:16:48]
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:41 pm

According to an Panamanian AAC official they are trying to lure CO and AA to operate flights to DAV as well as working on getting more Central America Connections.

Maybe AA can pull off a 1x Week DAV-MIA and CO a IAH-DAV 1x week.

http://www.prensa.com/hoy/negocios/1170758.html
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
aer
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:10 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:31 pm

GT news: Guatemala's Constitutional Court decided that the 10% tax on air travel was in fact double taxation, therefore it decided to kill the tax. Finally Guatemalans will get good fares, the taxes now will go as: 12% VAT, $30 exit tax, what ever taxes the destination country imposes.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
User avatar
carmenlu15
Posts: 4518
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 59):
While Spirit offered some terrific market rates its inability to sell via ethnic travel agencies and consolidators which pretty much own the LA-Central America market doomed the service.

 checkmark  I've lost count how many times our customers came in asking if we could sell tickets on Spirit, and when we told them we couldn't, they walked out of the office... not before they had bought their UA/DL/TA tickets here.  Wink

Quoting Aer (Reply 79):
GT news: Guatemala's Constitutional Court decided that the 10% tax on air travel was in fact double taxation, therefore it decided to kill the tax. Finally Guatemalans will get good fares, the taxes now will go as: 12% VAT, $30 exit tax, what ever taxes the destination country imposes.

Ha, you beat me to it... The news was out a couple of weeks ago, but only now it was published in the Diario de Centroamérica, thus making it official.

Time to celebrate with some cold Gallos!
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Topic Author
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:02 pm

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 80):

Quoting Aer (Reply 79):
GT news: Guatemala's Constitutional Court decided that the 10% tax on air travel was in fact double taxation, therefore it decided to kill the tax. Finally Guatemalans will get good fares, the taxes now will go as: 12% VAT, $30 exit tax, what ever taxes the destination country imposes.

Ha, you beat me to it... The news was out a couple of weeks ago, but only now it was published in the Diario de Centroamérica, thus making it official.

This has nothing to do with the Q.20 Seguridad de Aeródromos fee pax had to go pay at the Banco de la República before heading out for the departure lounge at La Aurora, right? I mean, that fee still stands?
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
User avatar
juanchito
Posts: 1267
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2000 2:35 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 81):
This has nothing to do with the Q.20 Seguridad de Aeródromos fee pax had to go pay at the Banco de la República before heading out for the departure lounge at La Aurora, right? I mean, that fee still stands?

Yes that would stay

Juanchito
Fotografos de Aviacion de Guatemala. Spotter.
https://www.facebook.com/Fot%C3%B3grafo ... 661476921/
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3938
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 80):
Time to celebrate with some cold Gallos!

La cervesa mas fina de a.net!


Evidently..representatives for COPA will be in BZE this week..could we be getting closer to an announcement of PTY-SAP-BZE or PTY-GUA-BZE or maybe..jsut maybe PTY-BZE-MBJ
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:45 pm

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 83):
Evidently..representatives for COPA will be in BZE this week..could we be getting closer to an announcement of PTY-SAP-BZE or PTY-GUA-BZE or maybe..jsut maybe PTY-BZE-MBJ

PTY-BZE-MBJ is the only route that can't make any sense, if you tell me PTY-GCM-BZE-PTY and PTY-GCM-BZE-PTY that's another thing.
Would GUA allow CM 5th freedom GUA-BZE?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 84):
PTY-BZE-MBJ is the only route that can't make any sense, if you tell me PTY-GCM-BZE-PTY and PTY-GCM-BZE-PTY that's another thing.
Would GUA allow CM 5th freedom GUA-BZE?

Isnt GUA being thrown around as a possible hub for CM, i am sure there would be no problem getting 5th freedom.

BTW, PTY-GCM-BZE seems like a good routing. I am sure we will see CM in BZE soon and also in GCM at some point in the next 1-2 years.

La Prensa said today that Grupo Mall, a spanish residential tourism developer is trying to set up Air Europa flights to MAD. I am sure CM would codeshare on this flight.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3938
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 84):
Would GUA allow CM 5th freedom GUA-BZE?

Yes..

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 84):
PTY-BZE-MBJ is the only route that can't make any sense

Why not....JM used to get 40 pax p/d on this route....but they had problems fillign the rest of the 320 with conencting pax...

If you assume and E-190 .....40 pax a day might be a good complement on a PTY-BZE-MBJ routing.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 84):
TY-GCM-BZE-PTY and PTY-GCM-BZE-PTY that's another thing.

Agree..GCM might be a good fit too...but could not work as a triangle....unless it alternated days.....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Topic Author
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:49 pm

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 83):
could we be getting closer to an announcement of PTY-SAP-BZE or PTY-GUA-BZE or maybe..just maybe PTY-BZE-MBJ

PTY-SAP-BZE... you mean in addition to the current (CM795/796) PTY-SJO-SAP?
PTY-GUA-BZE... as a tag-on to the current (CM320/319 and CM496/497) daily 73G nonstops?
PTY-BZE-MBJ... fyi that 2nd segment would add 687 miles to the routing, for a total of 1,523 miles.

To put things into perspective, let's consider three things: The nonstop SJO-SAP portion does well with business travelers considering TA uses ATRs on that route, so no reason for CM to do away with the current setup. The morning departure time for a BZE-GUA-PTY return flight would be, what? around 0500? And finally, the two (only?) existing E190 routes involving tag-ons in the region are PTY-SJO-SAP (CM795/796) at 786 miles, and PTY-SJO-GUA (CM382/381) at 866 miles.

Oh and I'm guessing patties would be a regular sight during snack time on board those return flights out of MBJ.  Wink

Quoting Luisca (Reply 85):
PTY-GCM-BZE seems like a good routing

I agree, but its 1,308-mile routing would also involve scheduling issues with the current flight bank arrangements at PTY, wouldn't it? For whatever it's worth, my guess is that an E190 doing GUA-BZE-GCM (723 miles total) once daily, within the context of that hypothetical GUA hub scenario being tossed around, has the best chance.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 83):
Evidently..representatives for COPA will be in BZE this week.

Which beyond mere speculation confirms BZE is on their radar, so good for you! Now would these sources so privy to what's going on at BZE be kind enough to provide us with advance notice of any similar reconnaissance mission by NK reps in the near future?
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
aer
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:10 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 84):
Would GUA allow CM 5th freedom GUA-BZE?



Quoting Luisca (Reply 85):
Isnt GUA being thrown around as a possible hub for CM, i am sure there would be no problem getting 5th freedom.

Guatemala grants freedoms 1 - 5 regardless, as long as the airline passes it's certificates and all.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3055
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:37 am



Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 87):
PTY-SAP-BZE... you mean in addition to the current (CM795/796) PTY-SJO-SAP?
PTY-GUA-BZE... as a tag-on to the current (CM320/319 and CM496/497) daily 73G nonstops?
PTY-BZE-MBJ... fyi that 2nd segment would add 687 miles to the routing, for a total of 1,523 miles.

To put things into perspective, let's consider three things: The nonstop SJO-SAP portion does well with business travelers considering TA uses ATRs on that route, so no reason for CM to do away with the current setup. The morning departure time for a BZE-GUA-PTY return flight would be, what? around 0500? And finally, the two (only?) existing E190 routes involving tag-ons in the region are PTY-SJO-SAP (CM795/796) at 786 miles, and PTY-SJO-GUA (CM382/381) at 866 miles.

Good analysis above !
Probably, the market between BZE and PTY does not support daily dedicated operations even with E190 equipment.
IMHO, if CM starts flights to BZE in the future from PTY, these operations will likely involve tag-ons from somewhere else as CM is currently doing with other routes entirely in Central America: PTY-SJO-TGU, PTY-SJO-SAP, PTY-MGA-SAL, PTY-SJO-MGA-GUA, PTY-MGA-GUA and PTY-SJO-GUA.



.

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 87):
And finally, the two (only?) existing E190 routes involving tag-ons in the region are PTY-SJO-SAP (CM795/796) at 786 miles, and PTY-SJO-GUA (CM382/381) at 866 miles.

Plus CM 711 PTY-MGA-GUA returning next day as CM 710 GUA-MGA-PTY with E190 at this time.
Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Topic Author
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:14 am



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 89):
Plus CM 711 PTY-MGA-GUA returning next day as CM 710 GUA-MGA-PTY with E190 at this time.

That's right. Thanks for the clarification, Max.

PTY-SJO-SAP (CM795/796) = 786 miles
PTY-SJO-GUA (CM382/381) = 866 miles
PTY-MGA-GUA (CM711/710) = 845 miles

So again, there is a distinct pattern to CM's deployment of their E190 fleet in the region. I'm certainly not implying that CM is somehow limited range-wise (the E190 is clearly capable of doing over 2,000 statutory miles) in juggling their options. This is merely a speculative thought on my part, based solely on what I've consistently seen them do thus far.

PTY-GUA-BZE = 1,095 miles
PTY-BZE-GCM = 1,308 miles
PTY-BZE-MBJ = 1,523 miles

Aside from any viability considerations with regard to the markets themselves, these routes would seem unlikely in light of the fact that they just don't fit into said pattern. And since we're only second-guessing here, then we might as well take these sorts of things into account.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3938
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:40 pm



Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 87):
Which beyond mere speculation confirms BZE is on their radar, so good for you! Now would these sources so privy to what's going on at BZE be kind enough to provide us with advance notice of any similar reconnaissance mission by NK reps in the near future?

no need for reconnaissance...bze is such a small place....everyone knows before the mission even lands!

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 89):
Probably, the market between BZE and PTY does not support daily dedicated operations even with E190 equipment.

If it is part of a tag on it would...and if it were dedicated 4Xweekly (MWFS) it would....lots of business traffic to the free zone.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:06 pm

Did DL cancel its second PTY frequency? I was triying to purchase a flight and that schedule was a lot better.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:58 pm



Quoting Luisca (Reply 92):
Did DL cancel its second PTY frequency? I was triying to purchase a flight and that schedule was a lot better.

It seems that they did. IMHO, PTY could support a 2nd ATL frequency at least 2 days per week (weekends or Friday / Monday).
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3938
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:58 pm



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 93):
It seems that they did. IMHO, PTY could support a 2nd ATL frequency at least 2 days per week (weekends or Friday / Monday).

And seems like after saying they would bring back LAX-BZE and the SAt only RON ATL-BZE Nov 15th, I don't see it in the schedule they gave us...who knows what DL are doing....I wish they would just make a schedule and stick to it for a few months at least.

OTOH....I see they are bringing the 757 a few days this Dec on the ATL-BZE flights...
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3055
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:54 am

Current schedule for InterJet in Guatemala City:

FROM GUATEMALA
Flight 902...........GUA 12:50..............CUN 14:15............Su
Flight 902...........GUA 14:25..............CUN 15:50............Tu, Th
Flight 900...........GUA 16:15..............TLC 18:05.............Ex Su
Flight 900............GUA 16:45.............TLC 18:35.............Su

TO GUATEMALA
Flight 901............TLC 10:00...............GUA 12:00............Su
Flight 903............CUN 12:05..............GUA 13:35............Tu, Th
Flight 901............TLC 13:30...............GUA 15:25............Ex Su
Flight 903............CUN 14:25..............GUA 15:55............Su


.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 85):
La Prensa said today that Grupo Mall, a spanish residential tourism developer is trying to set up Air Europa flights to MAD. I am sure CM would codeshare on this flight.

UX has already started operations into Latin America: CCS, EZE, GIG, SSA, HAV, CUN and SDQ.
Some weeks ago we discussed the possibility for CM PTY-MAD.
I am not clear at all if UX is willing to fly MAD-PTY. If so, I agree UX may make flights on behalf of CM regarding they are both involved into SkyTeam group as associate members.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
aer
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:10 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:10 am



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 95):
Current schedule for InterJet in Guatemala City

Well today I saw in the news paper a MX add offering a 2x1 deal, just like Interjet. Plus TA is offering sales on the MEX-GUA route. Guess they are now feeling the competition AM was unable to perform.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Topic Author
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:46 am



Quoting Aer (Reply 96):
Well today I saw in the news paper a MX add offering a 2x1 deal, just like Interjet. Plus TA is offering sales on the MEX-GUA route.

Ahhh... nothing like the sight of a new, aggressive competitor to shake up a captive market.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26223
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 93):
MHO, PTY could support a 2nd ATL frequency at least 2 days per week (weekends or Friday / Monday).

Delta's bookings clearly don't support that. Not going with the 2nd ATL frequency (which was 3x weekly, IIRC), might have something to do with adding JFK-PTY.

[Edited 2007-11-13 21:48:23]
a.
 
G5ive
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:32 pm

RE: Central American Aviation Thread - Part XVI

Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:59 am

Wasn't TA going to start SAL-LAS?
Do I sign here?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos