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mbj-11
Posts: 331
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:44 pm

Ready for a JM update?

The government of Jamaica is to enter into talks with ...........ahh, I'll just let you read it.

"A team from the Stanford Financial Group which has investments worldwide is expected in Jamaica on Monday for talks with the Government.

The Stanford Group's core businesses are private wealth management and investment banking for institutions as well as emerging growth companies.

The Government has also made overtures to air carriers LanChile and Hawaiian Airlines to enter into a partnership with Air Jamaica.

On Monday, Prime Minister Bruce Golding instructed that Ministerial responsibility for Air Jamaica be transferred from the Ministry of Transport to the Ministry of Finance.

The Finance Ministry was responsible for the airline under the former Government.

The new Board of Air Jamaica has reportedly started to streamline the airline's operations by reducing the management team."

There you have it. I wonder why no mention of EK yet?
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 148):
but for example a KIN-JFK, not even in low season an E190 could perform well.

That's why I said that the E-Jets seem less attractive U.S. bound flights due to their smaller cargo capacity.

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 149):
Perhaps when we finally get around to some 737NGs we can see some cool winglets on these birds!!

I heard about KX looking for 737NG's a few years ago and asked about the status of those aircraft back than but nobody could really answer that question and it looks like no one can answer that question right now either  Wink

A388
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1616
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 150):

"A team from the Stanford Financial Group which has investments worldwide is expected in Jamaica on Monday for talks with the Government.

Stanford investing into JM should be interesting. It is almost the flip of what he did with 8B in that instead of investing in a competitor he would invest in an airline that is already there!!

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
albird87
Posts: 566
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 150):
The Government has also made overtures to air carriers LanChile and Hawaiian Airlines to enter into a partnership with Air Jamaica

What kind of partnership are they looking at?? Seems like these are maybe off partners... (well maybe not LAN but Hawaiian..... couldnt see why!!)

Quoting A388 (Reply 151):
I heard about KX looking for 737NG's a few years ago and asked about the status of those aircraft back than but nobody could really answer that question and it looks like no one can answer that question right now either

Well your guess is as good as mine or anybodys i think!! A unsolved mystery that i think 9/11 decided to solve for us (and possibly hurrican Ivan here in 04)
737NGs would be great but i doubt KX has the money to lease/ buy a couple. I expect we shall see more 733s to replace the 732s in the next year and then see what happens with profits and routes.....

I wonder what flights for KX to Canada could do?? AC fly down here in the winter (sats only i think) with a A319. Possibly flights to YUL or YYZ. Do JM or CAL fly to Canada?? how good are there routes if so??
 
aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 153):
Do JM or CAL fly to Canada?? how good are there routes if so??

CAL flies to YYZ daily with a 737-800W. AFAIK, the route is hugely profitable, infact when they flew the A340s, they would send the A340 to YYZ during peak time. There is a lot of VFR traffic coupled with the 100,000 or so Trini students in Canada trying to get home for Christmas, Easter and Summer. Bw415 is one of these and can attest to the sheer volume of university students on the flights at peak times compounding the seat shortage and very high prices.

I don't know enough about JM, but I assumer they also serve YYZ.

I would love to see CAL picking up YUL service, but I don't think there is the year round demand for the route- YET!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 150):
The Government has also made overtures to air carriers LanChile and Hawaiian Airlines to enter into a partnership with Air Jamaica.

JM with LA? Other than flying Airbus, I can't see any other commonality between them. LA management is to face a major cultural shock trying to get in a partnership with JM.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 154):
I would love to see CAL picking up YUL service, but I don't think there is the year round demand for the route- YET!

AC does BGI YUL during winter I think we are more likely to see double daily POS YYZ during winter!!
Eagles Soar!
 
captaink
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 153):
not LAN but Hawaiia

Trying to get Jamaicans to connect via LAX to Hawaii and vice versa.. HAHA strange partnership nontheless.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 154):
I don't know enough about JM, but I assumer they also serve YYZ.

JM flies KIN/YYZ daily usually using the A321.

JMs management are really starting to look like they have gone mad. I mean lets look at the airline. They serve a wealth of US cities, Toronto, and islands in the caribbean. Who should they partner with? Well they need to find a DL replacement, to target all the secondary US cities. That has been working for them, why are they shying away trying to get into South America? It is going to be difficult to compete with the airlines of Latin America, becuase they all have one thing in common, Spanish. You have airlines with great presence thorughout the regiong, Aeromexico, Mexicana, Copa, LanGroup the lists goes on. JM would not be able to handle these 'bigger' boys. They seem to be getting the caribbean under control while BW seems to be sleeping, so maybe they should concentrate on that, partner with a US carrier, and move from there.
Look Up
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 157):
JMs management are really starting to look like they have gone mad. I mean lets look at the airline. They serve a wealth of US cities, Toronto, and islands in the caribbean. Who should they partner with? Well they need to find a DL replacement, to target all the secondary US cities

The south America market is very peculiar indeed, because there are airlines that have very great alliances and competitive customer service. BW tried south America service years ago and it never succeeded. I do believe JM is going to try this in the foreseeable future either.
All ah we is one family
 
aa1818
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:54 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 157):
JMs management are really starting to look like they have gone mad. I mean lets look at the airline. They serve a wealth of US cities, Toronto, and islands in the caribbean. Who should they partner with? Well they need to find a DL replacement, to target all the secondary US cities. That has been working for them, why are they shying away trying to get into South America? It is going to be difficult to compete with the airlines of Latin America, becuase they all have one thing in common, Spanish. You have airlines with great presence thorughout the regiong, Aeromexico, Mexicana, Copa, LanGroup the lists goes on. JM would not be able to handle these 'bigger' boys. They seem to be getting the caribbean under control while BW seems to be sleeping, so maybe they should concentrate on that, partner with a US carrier, and move from there.

I don't think JM finding a partner has much to do with codeshares as it does to do with Privatization, investment partner, risk sharing, technological know-how, busines advice and expert input. I don't think they are looking at LAN for an alliance, but more from an ownership perspective.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 157):
Trying to get Jamaicans to connect via LAX to Hawaii and vice versa.. HAHA strange partnership nontheless.

Again- same as above. I believe Hawaiian is a well run airline, and has perhaps had to deal with some of the same issues- thin short routes, high capacity short routes, and attempting to manage a limited medium-long range route system without increasing costs significantly.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 156):
AC does BGI YUL during winter I think we are more likely to see double daily POS YYZ during winter!!

Yea YUL is a bit of a long shot for POS. Do BW only fly YYZ once per day?? When my relatives come home for Christmas there are enough of them to fill half a flight!!!

Have there been any updates pertaining to Caribbean Airlines Express? Have the pilots, and FA's from TB all been rehired or are they still on 'probatory' contracts?? Besides CCS-POS and BGI-TAB, does anyone think that there is enough traffic for UVF, GND and SVD daily Dash8's? If so- then we could be seeing CALx sourcing some more Dash8's!!

Also, has CAL maintained the same POS/TAB schedule as TB?

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
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hummingbird
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:54 pm

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 158):

LA and Ladeco once operated flights to MBJ with continuing service to Miami. These services were short-lived. I can only see JM venturing to South America in support of the different Spanish hotel chains in Jamaica and for international trade. For transit pax, I do believe the market is already saturated.

I am still trying to see what benefits JM would have if EK were to buy the shares.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 158):
BW tried south America service years ago and it never succeeded. I do believe JM is going to try this in the foreseeable future either.

Neither JM nor BW are going to be successful with Southamerican services (except for GEO, PBM - thats a no brainer, and maybe CCS, MAR, PMV, PZO - mostly with BW) unless those airlines are to provide wonderful immediate connections to/fr other major Caribbean Islands (read Cuba and Dominican Republic) plus selected Northamerican destinations at their hub airports for those Southamerican flights.

I do believe that a thrice weekly POS - Brazil flight might work, but only if BW offers those wonderful connections @ POS with a great marketing. Having said this, On one side, I would doubt BW will have it easy trying to get slots at GRU, unless between midnight and 0600h; however, on the other hand POS-FOR/REC/SSA would definitely be very interesting since flights between Northeast Brazil and the States are very irregular and surely there's a demand for those even if via POS.
I can't stress this, but BW and JM stay away from MAO and BEL. It's tempting that those are the closest major Brazilian markets to the Caribbean but JJ and CM (in MAO) dominate the Brazil-Northamerica traffic in those airports.
Surely if BW get the rights to fly to MAO and/or BEL from GEO maybe it could be different, but I've no idea how is the potential traffic between Guyana and Brazil.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 160):
LA and Ladeco once operated flights to MBJ with continuing service to Miami. These services were short-lived. I can only see JM venturing to South America in support of the different Spanish hotel chains in Jamaica and for international trade. For transit pax, I do believe the market is already saturated.

I am still trying to see what benefits JM would have if EK were to buy the shares.

Again- I don't think we're necessarily going to see codeshares or new flights to HNL, SCL or DXB. I think these are simply business arrangements. The larger airlines see this as an investment. Something that perhaps in 5 years, if they are able to run the airline right might turn into a proper partnership a la CM and CO. But for now I think it is purely ownership, investment and expertise.

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
bw415
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:32 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 159):
Yea YUL is a bit of a long shot for POS. Do BW only fly YYZ once per day?? When my relatives come home for Christmas there are enough of them to fill half a flight!!!

Currently CAL operates this routes daily with the exception of Wednesdays when there are two flights. For the Christmas period though, there is an additional flight on the Saturday starting on the week after the 6th of Dec. The week before Christmas there is an additional flight on Thurs 20th in addition to the aforementioned.

I suspect that they will have a full fleet of 6 aircraft by then because these additional flights form part of a new schedule and will be operated in the new year as well. The Thursday flight does not run every week in some cases but its about 3 times a month it would seem.

Also there are two extra flights to MIA per week around Christmas week and extra flights to JFK. It would appear that the addition of these flights means that they will be solidly booked over the period.. So I guess it wouldn't be until next year that 9Y-POS makes it up for her repaint!.. Good Luck to them over the season. I hope they are able to maintain the high levels of service they have been offering to encourage repeat customers!

bw415
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:38 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 159):
does anyone think that there is enough traffic for UVF, GND and SVD daily Dash8's? If so- then we could be seeing CALx sourcing some more Dash8's!

POS/GND is a no brainer, that would be an instant success. BW Express operated during it's peak presence 4 o 5 flights a day to POS and BGI and during its demise 3 times a day. The route was stopped not due to the success of the route but because of some drama between BW, the Dash8s, Tobago Express that I am not too clear on.
Look Up
 
aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 163):
suspect that they will have a full fleet of 6 aircraft by then because these additional flights

so right now CAL has:
Repainted and Retrofitted:
9Y- KIN, ANU, TAB, BGI

In old BW scheme:
9Y- POS

Out on lease:
9Y-GEO....or was this one returned ages ago and they leased out a different one to Transavia over the summer?

Quoting Captaink (Reply 164):
POS/GND is a no brainer, that would be an instant success. BW Express operated during it's peak presence 4 o 5 flights a day to POS and BGI and during its demise 3 times a day. The route was stopped not due to the success of the route but because of some drama between BW, the Dash8s, Tobago Express that I am not too clear on.

So you don't think haing LI and BW on POS-GND is too much capacity?

Also I believe the TB saga had something to do with non compliance of International standards as well as not having an operators certificate to operate the routes themselves since they became a separate entity to BW but operated the flights as BW. Something confusing like that anyways. I hope CAL gets new Dash8's (like 3-4 more and begin some regional expansion to other cities in Venezuela as well as Caribbean Islands. Perhaps CAL can compete on POS-CUR, depite the increased capacity currently, it has always been a market with huge potential for BW to run its competitors off the route I think.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 161):
Surely if BW get the rights to fly to MAO and/or BEL from GEO maybe it could be different, but I've no idea how is the potential traffic between Guyana and Brazil.

Well now that they are Guyana's flag carrier perhaps they will get more Dash8's and base them in GEO for flights to South America and make GEO the South American hub for connecting Caribbean pax?!?! Who knows- with more Dash8's we could see GEO-GND etc, with onward connections to northern Brazil and beyond?!?!

AA1818

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 165):
Well now that they are Guyana's flag carrier perhaps they will get more Dash8's and base them in GEO for flights to South America and make GEO the South American hub for connecting Caribbean pax?!?!

I can see it now, GEO hub with flights to PBM, CAY and MAO. GEO-MAO on a Dash8 will be something to see, we're not talking island to island distances here.
For BW having GEO as an stop enroute to GRU or any other Brazilian city (except MAO, perhaps BEL) or even EZE (!) will not work.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:05 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 166):
I can see it now, GEO hub with flights to PBM, CAY and MAO. GEO-MAO on a Dash8 will be something to see, we're not talking island to island distances here.
For BW having GEO as an stop enroute to GRU or any other Brazilian city (except MAO, perhaps BEL) or even EZE (!) will not work.

Apologies- I guess it wasn't really a properly thought out scenario- how about E-Jets?

You can tell i'm from a tiny Caribbean Island!!! I remember when I was flying from SYD-CHC summer 2006...I thought it was a little hop between Australia and New Zealand....it was 3.5 hours!!! Again- I come from a small island!!!! hehehe

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 165):
So you don't think haing LI and BW on POS-GND is too much capacity?

No not really. Becuase remember when BW had the 3 express flights a day, alot of the passengers were connecting passengers. The morning run, had had many connecting passengers to MIA. The afternoon had almost 0 passengers disembarking in POS, however connecting to JFK/LHR and YYZ, where as the inbound flight brought many passengers who connected from 425. The night flight had a mix of passengers. Many Grenadians "the traffickers" loved heading down to POS on the 6am flight and returning on the 9pm flight, after doing their necessary shopping.

So to some extent BW's Express service, was targeted at a different market, and the remaining seats did very little to affect LI/8B. Now, without competition from two airlines, I think a Caribbean Airlines Express service should do very well.
Look Up
 
aa1818
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:52 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 168):
No not really. Becuase remember when BW had the 3 express flights a day, alot of the passengers were connecting passengers. The morning run, had had many connecting passengers to MIA. The afternoon had almost 0 passengers disembarking in POS, however connecting to JFK/LHR and YYZ, where as the inbound flight brought many passengers who connected from 425. The night flight had a mix of passengers. Many Grenadians "the traffickers" loved heading down to POS on the 6am flight and returning on the 9pm flight, after doing their necessary shopping.

So to some extent BW's Express service, was targeted at a different market, and the remaining seats did very little to affect LI/8B. Now, without competition from two airlines, I think a Caribbean Airlines Express service should do very well.

Well I hope someone from Caribbean Airlines is reading this forum and taking notes!! hehehe
I'd LOVE to see Caribbean Airlines Express with a large fleet of Dash8's.

I expect the next move to be acquiring more Dash8's even before new North America routes, or expansion ex BGI.

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
bw415
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 165):
so right now CAL has:
Repainted and Retrofitted:
9Y- KIN, ANU, TAB, BGI

In old BW scheme:
9Y- POS

Out on lease:
9Y-GEO....or was this one returned ages ago and they leased out a different one to Transavia over the summer?

GEO is back but is in ATL being painted et al... so right now they are operating 5 and well as I was aying earlier, I suspect that GEO will be back in early December for the Christmas rush!!

bw415
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
aa1818
Posts: 1572
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 170):
GEO is back but is in ATL being painted et al... so right now they are operating 5 and well as I was aying earlier, I suspect that GEO will be back in early December for the Christmas rush!!


thanks for the update...what was the reg. of the GECAS bird that was returned??

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
BW985
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:50 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 171):
what was the reg. of the GECAS bird that was returned??

I think it was 9Y-GND. Does anyone know whether BW has got an option with GECAS to get that plane back at some point or would they look at leasing new planes when they're ready to expand?
 
bw415
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting BW985 (Reply 172):
I think it was 9Y-GND. Does anyone know whether BW has got an option with GECAS to get that plane back at some point or would they look at leasing new planes when they're ready to expand?

Hmm.. the last thing I heard about aircraft leasing was that the ILFC offered CAL better leasing arrangements than GECAS... somehow I don't think CAL is going to use two different companies for their planes because should the sh*t hit the fan its one other creditor down their throat!.. I think it would be best if they stayed with the ILFC and seeing that they have recently re-negociated their leases I am sure they would have the put in the option for more 738's in the future. Just my 2 cents though.

bw415
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
caribbean484
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting BW985 (Reply 172):
I think it was 9Y-GND. Does anyone know whether BW has got an option with GECAS to get that plane back at some point or would they look at leasing new planes when they're ready to expand?

From my understanding is that GND is out for good, unless I read my sourses wrong. Caribbean Airlines got great deals from ILFC for the 6 737s and negotiated for some more for future expansion and agreements within a 2 year period. If they will be new is a different story but thats what I got from my story.
All ah we is one family
 
caribbean484
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 168):
No not really. Becuase remember when BW had the 3 express flights a day, alot of the passengers were connecting passengers. The morning run, had had many connecting passengers to MIA. The afternoon had almost 0 passengers disembarking in POS, however connecting to JFK/LHR and YYZ, where as the inbound flight brought many passengers who connected from 425. The night flight had a mix of passengers. Many Grenadians "the traffickers" loved heading down to POS on the 6am flight and returning on the 9pm flight, after doing their necessary shopping.

Yes I remember, that time BWIA had 3 flights to MIA, and the Dash8s were operating for seamless connections to their MIA, JFK routes.
BWIA had a good run on those routes till they decided to partner with LI and form TABX because of Air Caribbean going tinto recievership.
All ah we is one family
 
caribbean484
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 165):
Also I believe the TB saga had something to do with non compliance of International standards as well as not having an operators certificate to operate the routes themselves since they became a separate entity to BW but operated the flights as BW. Something confusing like that anyways. I hope CAL gets new Dash8's (like 3-4 more and begin some regional expansion to other cities in Venezuela as well as Caribbean Islands. Perhaps CAL can compete on POS-CUR, depite the increased capacity currently, it has always been a market with huge potential for BW to run its competitors off the route I think.

Yes according to TTCAA act, an a/c does not have to be up to international standards to fly domestically(withing POS airspace), However, if you have to do extensive over-water operations, you will need to have it up to FAA standards which we all know airlines must comply by to enter into a foreign country.

Well I think we will see more Dash8s soon. Also I think they are considering Ejets. If we all remember last month, a JB E190 was in POS for a test show to CAL, so lets see how this turns out.
All ah we is one family
 
westindian425
Posts: 729
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:46 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 176):
Well I think we will see more Dash8s soon. Also I think they are considering Ejets. If we all remember last month, a JB E190 was in POS for a test show to CAL, so lets see how this turns out.

I happened to be in Trinidad when a B6 E-190 was at the cargo ramp at POS. I was wondering what it was doing there, and thought it might have been a fuel/tech stop enroute to JFK.

In terms of using GEO as a South American focus city, I can see that as viable. However, Dash service, as mentioned earlier, is a long stretch. I'm thinking the E-Jets would be more viable. Again, though...that's down the road.
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
trintocan
Posts: 2790
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:57 am

Some interesting chatter here. Insofar as the GND market is concerned, remember that around 2000 there were 4 airlines operating between POS and GND - namely BW, LI, 8B and C2. BW had 3 daily services which, as mentioned, provided connections to other BW services. 8B came onto the POS routes in October 2000 while LI had 3 flights of its own (1 via TAB). At that time there was a huge amount of capacity on the route. C2, which operated 2 daily flights, folded in October 2000. The TB and BW issue arose when BW decided that the lower cost structure of TB facilitated its providing the regional services at lower costs than if BW itself did so. In so doing it decided to fold BWee Express and let TB do the job. I was not aware of licencing and regulatory issues (though T&T was Category 2 at the time) but the domestic route suffered through lack of capacity and so BW itself had to lease planes in to serve the route and the Government stepped in and asked TB to concentrate on the domestic sector.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 178):
ome interesting chatter here. Insofar as the GND market is concerned,

Wasn't Helen Air around that time two. I remember flying to POS on HelenAir, can't remember the year though. They operated the B1900C on that route.
Look Up
 
wadadli
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:51 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:48 pm

Ok, so I have been following the forum for a long time now. Finally decided to join! Great forum by the way. Don't mean to go off topic but just thought i would let ya'll know what is up here.

It looks like it will be a really good season for Antigua again and we will have as many flights or more than last season. More than likely more since several new hotel properties have either opened or will be opening and will cause the demand for seats into the country to soar.

American/American Ealge will add a 4th flight from San Juan effective Dec 13th for the busy christmas holidays.
American Ealge started SJU-EIS-ANU-EIS-SJU in sept 3X week and due to a fairly good response the service has gone daily. The government is STILL in discussions with AA for a MIA flight but this has been ongoing for awhile so nobody is holding their breathe. Perhaps we will see that for the 08/09 winter schedule. It is definately a viable route though and AA is doing extreemly well out of ANU as a whole.

Continental Airlines will for the firs time offer daily non-stop flights from Newark, NJ effective Dec 13th 07. Previously they offered 5X in the winter 4X in the summer and 1X weekly off-season. A few years back, they did offer daily service in the winter but it was shared with SXM. Continental performs extreemly well on the ANU route with average load factors of 90+% year round. CO has great service so I gladly welcome this news.

Livingston Spa. (Formerly Lauda Air) will return on Dec 22nd 07 for their seasonal flights from Milan, Italy on saturdays (shared flight) utilizing A330. They operate here DEC-MAY and JULY-SEP. Also, Livingston will be launching a shared flight between Milan and the islands of St. Lucia & Barbados...will operate on Wednesdays and will also be seasonal.

British Airways began their usual daily service for the winter schedule effective Oct 31st 07. The flight is shared with TAB 3X weekely, GND 2X and UVF 2X. On average 2/3 of the flight offloads in ANU with the remaining 1/3 continuing on most flights.

Delta returns from ATL Nov 17th with Sat flights, then sat & wed for the holidays, then sat,sun & wed from feb til the end of the season. In addition, the government is in the process of trying to woo them for flights out of JFK...This would be really good since there is no carrier on the JFK route since the departure of BW. Have to wait and see......

US Air returns from CLT November 10th (tomorrow) with sat only flights through to Aug 08 (usually dont fly here in Sept & Oct slow months). It does not appear the PHL flight will be back this season but we will wait and see. They brought PHL back late it the last winter schedule for March thru May and it did well as usual so i would not be surprised if this re-occurs.

Air Canada will add a third flight from Toronto on thursdays effective Dec 20th for the remainder of the season in addition to the Sat & Sun flights.

Skyservice returns for their usual seasonal flights from Toronto effective Dec 24th 2007 (shared with SKB).

Ammm....the UK carriers (where most tourists come from) continue to perform well BMI out of Machester, First Choice Airways, Virgin, BA and Excel out of London all doing really well. Excel launched flights only a year ago shared with SKB and they are already looking to increase frequencies in the near future. There is Condor out of Germany which relaunched service 2 years ago and the numbers have been picking up for them.

As everyone is aware, 8B's last flight is on November 15th 2007. So now its just LI doing the island hopping thing. I think there needs to be some competition and very soon because LI is smiling all the way to the bank. Reports are that they have made a profit for the first time in 27 yrs since the merger. That is good and no surprise since fares have doubled and more in some instances. We need deliverance from these fares but i guess this has been a regional problem.

Ok...enough said for now...I look forward to jumping in on the CAL,JM,KX talk soon.
 
aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:19 pm

Quoting Wadadli (Reply 180):
Ok...enough said for now...I look forward to jumping in on the CAL,JM,KX talk soon.

Nice to see you posting here Wadadli!!

Cheers for the info mate. Very thorough!! May I ask where the information comes from in term of route performance for the vast majority of flights? Just curious as I'd like to know where I can find out how airlines like DL and CO are performing ex POS!!

Lets hope that Caribbean Airlines dows the POS-ANU-MIA and POS-ANU-JFK soon before AA and DL jump in!!

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 178):
Insofar as the GND market is concerned

I had never realized that GND was such a large market!! Hmm..definitely need more Dash8's soon!! How many flights are there now between GND and POS?

Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 177):
In terms of using GEO as a South American focus city, I can see that as viable. However, Dash service, as mentioned earlier, is a long stretch. I'm thinking the E-Jets would be more viable. Again, though...that's down the road.

To carry on discussing expansion opportunities for the region, which Latin American markets do you guys think could work ex POS, KIN, BGI and GEO?

I think for POS- obviously CCS is workable, I think SDQ has a shot, although perhaps via somewhere like CUR and not with 738s; anywhere in deep South America? EZE, SCL, LIM?

What about for JM? And what about BW's prospects ex GEO (not with Dash8's hehehehe)!!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
bw415
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:21 pm

Welcome to you Wadadli! It would appear that there are quite a few users who read these forums and arent members ( I used to be one for years :P).. but its great to have you here!...

Quoting Wadadli (Reply 180):
The government is STILL in discussions with AA for a MIA flight but this has been ongoing for awhile so nobody is holding their breathe. Perhaps we will see that for the 08/09 winter schedule. It is definately a viable route though and AA is doing extreemly well out of ANU as a whole.

I am actually quite surprised to hear that AA doesn't have a direct MIA service.. That would mean that ANU and GND are the only two Antillean airports that are served by AA/AE without an MIA flight (not counting airports that can't land jets like DOM) have this service... what do you think is the reasoning behind this?? I would think that ANU would have been an instant success from MIA.

Also do you have any idea how CAL does out of ANU... I know that their KIN flight is very profitable especially out of SXM but I never heard any wows about this service through ANU.. After all, ANU did lose one day a week on the KIN route to SXM.. Any info you have would be appreciated. Welcome again!

bw415
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:26 pm

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Richard Vandervord




Sorry for the random tid bit, but I've just made a link!! The logo on the tail is a..............HUMMING BIRD!!!!!!

So there is some historic significance of the CAL logo!! Apologies if i'm the last to notice this...but I thought i'd share it with those who haven't seen the link!

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 182):
Also do you have any idea how CAL does out of ANU

I completely forgot to ask but it was on my mind when I read his post!!

AA1818

[Edited 2007-11-09 08:28:26]

[Edited 2007-11-09 08:29:16]
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:36 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 181):
To carry on discussing expansion opportunities for the region, which Latin American markets do you guys think could work ex POS, KIN, BGI and GEO?

If BW sets up a real hub in POS: GRU and/or some big destination in Northeast Brazil, EZE, perhaps even LIM and/or VVI. Also out of POS: HAV and SDQ. Of course I see lots of potential for POS-PMV/PZO/MAR.
For JM: out of KIN: PTY; out of MBJ, specially if JM sets up a hub: HAV, SCU, STI, SDQ, MEX (or TLC, via BZE?), MAR and CSS.

Sometime soon, after they finally start POS, I would guess CM will be checking how would they eventually perform in BGI, GEO and PBM.
The only Latinamerican airline which I believe would dare to venture into KIN/MBJ, POS/TAB, BGI and GEO might be G3 most likely with night flights from MAO, but another possibility could be from BEL.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
trintocan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:49 pm

Interesting to see the shot of the TTAS HS748 but apart from co-incidence there is really no link with Caribbean Airlines. TTAS in fact inherited the livery from Arawak Airlines, the Leslie Lucky-Samaroo run carrier that took over the domestic route in 1970 and served it for 4 years with a fleet of DC-6s and HS748s. TTAS was formed in 1975, the year after Arawak folded and took the airline's Avros over plus added some more - it ended up with a fleet of 6. TTAS merged with BW in 1980 but, apart from BW titles the Avros retained the basic Arawak livery.

TrinToCan.
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aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 185):
Interesting to see the shot of the TTAS HS748 but apart from co-incidence there is really no link with Caribbean Airlines. TTAS in fact inherited the livery from Arawak Airlines, the Leslie Lucky-Samaroo run carrier that took over the domestic route in 1970 and served it for 4 years with a fleet of DC-6s and HS748s. TTAS was formed in 1975, the year after Arawak folded and took the airline's Avros over plus added some more - it ended up with a fleet of 6. TTAS merged with BW in 1980 but, apart from BW titles the Avros retained the basic Arawak livery.

Cheers for the info. It is kinda nice to have a link with the Humming Bird between past and present!

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 184):
POS-PMV/PZO/MAR.

Those I think pose a nice opportunity for BW with the Dash 8s!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 143):
Competition? You mean Aeropostal?

Yes, Aeropostal one of Venezuela's largest carriers. Even with their ageing fleet, they still have a large customer base in Venezuela.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 154):
I would love to see CAL picking up YUL service, but I don't think there is the year round demand for the route- YET!

I don't see service between POS and Montreal for some time. Let's face it, different language barriers always hamper service to destinations for Caribbean airlines. How long did it take CAL to add service to Spanish-speaking Caracas??

Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 177):
I happened to be in Trinidad when a B6 E-190 was at the cargo ramp at POS.

Probably a delivery en route to FLL.

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 182):
That would mean that ANU and GND are the only two Antillean airports that are served by AA/AE without an MIA flight (not counting airports that can't land jets like DOM) have this service... what do you think is the reasoning behind this??

Antigua, Grenada and some secondary Puerto Rican destinations are the main gaps in AA's MIA-Caribbean network.
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2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:27 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 187):
Yes, Aeropostal one of Venezuela's largest carriers. Even with their ageing fleet, they still have a large customer base in Venezuela.

As far as I know, Aeropostal is no more..
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:37 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 188):
Quoting MD90fan (Reply 187):
Yes, Aeropostal one of Venezuela's largest carriers. Even with their ageing fleet, they still have a large customer base in Venezuela.

As far as I know, Aeropostal is no more..

Aeropostal is still very much in existence. Their owner is trying to find a away to essentially move the airline's headquarters and base to Miami. He recently purchased Miami-based Falcon Air, and having Falcon Air "own" Aeropostal might solve some problems that are being caused largely by corruption in the Venezuelan government.
a.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:52 pm

CO has just announced increase service to BZE....not much more but still an increase they are now 2Xdaily to IAH and 3XSat/Sun to IAH + 1Xweekly to EWR..

According to the new manager here..the added the extra sunday flight as they are booked pretty solid for the next three months....

The EWR route has just never taken off really.....despite what should be heavy O&D
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:54 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 189):
Their owner is trying to find a away to essentially move the airline's headquarters and base to Miami. He recently purchased Miami-based Falcon Air, and having Falcon Air "own" Aeropostal might solve some problems that are being caused largely by corruption in the Venezuelan government.

So Venezuela is going to allow a U.S. owned Aeropostal by Falcon Air fly domestic in Venezuela and from Venezuela to other countries? I wish Aeropostal's owner goodluck, but his airline has been doomed by the Chávez regime.. It's impressive that it's fighting for survival but the odds weight heavily against it.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
wadadli
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 181):



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 181):
Cheers for the info mate. Very thorough!! May I ask where the information comes from in term of route performance for the vast majority of flights? Just curious as I'd like to know where I can find out how airlines like DL and CO are performing ex POS!!

I have closely followed the local and regional aviation scene (and cruise & hotel industry) for the past 8 yrs or so. Luckily, I have a family member in the ministry of tourism and a close friend working in high position at the airport authority so I have been able to see the numbers and data (airline loads & performance on the anu route, booking patterns, new airlift etc). This info is by and large useless to the average person unless you have keen interest in that kinda thing. I have also in the past worked for a local handling agent . So over the years i have studied the industry closely as a hobby that i probably have more interest in than my actual career. On top of all that I am a frequent flyer to the UK, USA, CAN and regional so i take to the skies approx 5X a yr.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 181):

Lets hope that Caribbean Airlines dows the POS-ANU-MIA and POS-ANU-JFK soon before AA and DL jump in!!

I have to say BW presence here has been on the decline for the past few years. They used to be very popular here maybe 3-6 yrs ago and the airline of choice and i can remember when BW had non-stops from here 5X weekly to JFK, 5X MIA, 2X YYZ, 5X KIN, 2X IAD & 2X LHR. Here was a fairly big hub for BW and were definitely the next most frequent thing into the airport after LI. Admittedly, IAD never caught on from here so it was no surprise it was axed after a few seasonal tries. AA came on the MIA route daily and effectively wiped BW off the route (which was quite popular) after about 1.5 yrs of them going head to head . The insult of it is that as soon as BW came off the route, AA moved the flights to SJU instead of MIA so we went from almost 2X daily MIA (between BW & AA) to 0. As for JFK, JM came on the scene in 2002 and departed about a year later then made another stint in 2004 and ceased flights in Jan 06 (if my memory serves me correctly). JM was leading in the JFK market and at one point was up to 6X weekly JFK and 6X MBJ in peak summer and christmas (via UVF mostly). I really miss JM service. I used them 2 times to LAX via mbj. really great service. They had very good numbers summer/winter but the off season was reportedly pretty poor. Really hated to seem them go. Hopefully they will explore coming back in the future and hopefully to stick around this time...haha. The remaining routes BW had in ANU as at 2006 were LHR 2X, KIN 5X, YYZ 1X and JFK 2X(seasonal!!). LHR very popular but also VERY seasonal! It did not do well at all in the off season. That went bye bye with the BW LHR pull out. YYZ had reasonable numbers year round but i guess not important enough to keep. As for KIN, this was probably BW most popular route here. Decent loads year round due to the large # of jamaicans in anu and the many students studying in JA. Also, there are many many ANU students studying in cuba and this is practically the only convenient route to get to HAV. We did loose the monday flight to SXM though as there was increasing demand out of there. BW was actually and still is popular for BGI and POS trips as allot of persons (particularly business ppl) dont like flying turbo props (LI & 8B) so there was and continues to be a fair bit of use on the BGI/POS leg of BW414/415.
So in the BW --> CAL transformation, we did loose a couple flights but their presence here was already on the decline. it appears BGI may have got the hardest hit where BW had MAN,LHR,MIA,KIN,JFK, YYZ & IAD flights up to or close to pre CAL formation.
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:24 pm

Well, here she is. I spotted her here in Curacao this last sunday. Air Jamaica's all-white A321:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter



Are these "simplified" Air Jamaica aircraft (incl. the all-white A320) a sign of withdrawal from their fleet to make room for the "new fleet"?

A388

[Edited 2007-11-09 15:39:34]
 
MAH4546
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 191):
So Venezuela is going to allow a U.S. owned Aeropostal by Falcon Air fly domestic in Venezuela and from Venezuela to other countries? I wish Aeropostal's owner goodluck, but his airline has been doomed by the Chávez regime.. It's impressive that it's fighting for survival but the odds weight heavily against it.

That remains to be seen, in which case the "new" Aeropostal will focus on lucrative Miami routes.
a.
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:49 pm

Quoting Wadadli (Reply 192):
So in the BW --> CAL transformation, we did loose a couple flights but their presence here was already on the decline. it appears BGI may have got the hardest hit where BW had MAN,LHR,MIA,KIN,JFK, YYZ & IAD flights up to or close to pre CAL formation.

Very true, BW at the time of its demise was the largest international carrier at BGI and the second largest carrier over all after LI. But I would not be surprised if CAL international presence at BGI is at least at the old BW level by the early part of the next decade!!

Quoting A388 (Reply 193):
Are these "simplified" Air Jamaica aircraft (incl. the all-white A320) a sign of withdrawal from their fleet to make room for the "new fleet"?

I saw the all white A320 heading into Adams International while I was in Bridgetown during lunch I must say that she looked quite nice as it was a nice sunny and warm day!!!

Regards
BWIA 772
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hummingbird
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 193):

That is 6Y-JMD it was on lease to a Mexican carrier for the summer period. In order to reduce expenses all leased aircraft will not be repainted.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 196):
That is 6Y-JMD it was on lease to a Mexican carrier for the summer period. In order to reduce expenses all leased aircraft will not be repainted.

Oww okay, so it has to do with reducing expenses. I knew those all-white aircraft came back from leases elsewhere. There is also an A320 in full Air Jamaica colors except for the pink transition colors in the tail logo and winglet. The tail and winglets are just blue with the Air Jamaica tail logo on the tail of course. It even looks nice that way in my opinion.

A388
 
beeweel15
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 183):





Sorry for the random tid bit, but I've just made a link!! The logo on the tail is a..............HUMMING BIRD!!!!!!

So there is some historic significance of the CAL logo!! Apologies if i'm the last to notice this...but I thought i'd share it with those who haven't seen the link!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Richard Vandervord



1818 I dont know if you around at that time but those were the days in air bridge travel. TTAS better known as Take a Ticket And Sweet. It was a free for all in seating . The seats right by the door was the most rushed for and when they closed that door you was baking in there it was not until half way to TAB you started to cool down. Even thinking further back when they operated the DC6B I remember that shortly after taking off from TAB i felt something crawling across my foot when I looked it was a huge hermit crab that got loose from someones bag. talk about hand carry. it was fun.
 
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxii

Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:03 am

Please continue the discussion at Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii by BWIA 772 Thank you
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