SFO777200LR
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SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:42 am

Yo folks,

SFO is closed for runway inspection due to an earthquake. 5.6 magnituded no reports of damage yet.
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c172pic
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:46 am

Just SOP, I'm sure they will find nothing major... if anything it was stronger at le SJC...

I felt it in Redwood city, minor shaking but buddy in San Jose felt good rattle...

El DE

5.6 - regional moment magnitude (Mw)
Time Tuesday, October 30, 2007 at 8:04:54 PM (PDT)
Wednesday, October 31, 2007 at 3:04:54 (UTC)
Distance from:
Alum Rock, CA - 8 km (5 miles) NNE (31 degrees)
Milpitas, CA - 11 km (7 miles) E (91 degrees)
San Jose City Hall, CA - 15 km (9 miles) NE (45 degrees)
Sunol-Midtown, CA - 17 km (10 miles) NE (45 degrees)

[Edited 2007-10-30 20:53:21]
 
steeler83
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:06 am

Isn't a 5.6 magnitude quake strong enough to make things fall like a lamp off a nightstand or china off the wall, nothing more? I believe we've had a few earthquakes like that in the past here in Lancaster, PA and that was pretty much the extent of the damage...

For those of you who don't realize, but there are deep faults in the ground beneath central PA. They are very old, but every now and then there is some below-the-surface movement around the faults that shake things up a little bit...
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buzz100ca
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:09 am

We felt a good shake here in Modesto. I'm sure the runways in the Bay Area will be open in no time.
 
masseybrown
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:10 am

What's the risk at SFO? Liquifaction of landfill? So the runways could sag in parts without actually breaking?
 
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legacyins
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:12 am

I am out at SFO now and operations are back to normal.
 
buzz100ca
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
What's the risk at SFO? Liquifaction of landfill?

I believe this is the case.
 
goomba
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:13 am

I'm in San Mateo and we had a good shake for sure. San Mateo is about 5 miles from SFO. The lamps rattled and the pictures on the wall became crooked, but nothing fell or broke. Lasted for about 15 to 20 seconds.

I'd imagine that the runways at SFO are fine and the airport will be opened up again very soon.

SJC was a lot closer to the epicenter...they may have more to worry about.

We will be watching out for aftershocks over the next 72 hours here in the Bay area. This particular fault tends to have strong aftershocks...stronger perhaps than the original quake.
 
as739x
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:18 am

A 5.6 ho-hum!

Felt nothing here in Foster City

ASSFO
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steeler83
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting Reality (Reply 8):
Pictures fell off the walls of Reed's house, but the mayor said there was no major damage there.



Quoting Reality (Reply 8):
Rod Foo, a resident of south San Jose, about 10 miles from the epicenter, said everything in his house shook for several seconds, but the electricity never went out and his telephone was still working.

I guess that answered my above question about typical "damage" in 5-pointers...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
B757capt
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:32 am

Couple of interesting Diverts

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL927

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1172

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL927


Looks like a lot of holding for the others but no one else diverted.
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jacobin777
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
Isn't a 5.6 magnitude quake strong enough to make things fall like a lamp off a nightstand or china off the wall, nothing more? I believe we've had a few earthquakes like that in the past here in Lancaster, PA and that was pretty much the extent of the damage...



Quoting Goomba (Reply 7):
I'm in San Mateo and we had a good shake for sure. San Mateo is about 5 miles from SFO. The lamps rattled and the pictures on the wall became crooked, but nothing fell or broke. Lasted for about 15 to 20 seconds.



Quoting AS739X (Reply 9):
A 5.6 ho-hum!

Felt nothing here in Foster City

..my house is only a few miles away from the epicentre...it was definitely a "shaker" (actually it was a "rolling" earthquake...shaking back and forth)...I wasn't too concerned as I knew what I had to do (I've been in a few "shakers" before)...fortunately nothing in my house broke......but things were rattling a bit..
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WingedMigrator
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
it was definitely a "shaker" (actually it was a "rolling" earthquake...shaking back and forth

Over here in Menlo Park, it felt more like a big freight train rattling past, followed by barely perceptible swaying. All my picture frames are still straight.

USGS says there's a 30% chance of a similarly strong aftershock over the next 7 days, and a 5-10% chance of something bigger.
 
jacobin777
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 13):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
it was definitely a "shaker" (actually it was a "rolling" earthquake...shaking back and forth

Over here in Menlo Park, it felt more like a big freight train rattling past, followed by barely perceptible swaying. All my picture frames are still straight.

USGS says there's a 30% chance of a similarly strong aftershock over the next 7 days, and a 5-10% chance of something bigger.

...most people I've watched on tv who live in this general vicinity have been mentioning they felt quite a strong shake......fortunately none of my airplane models fell off my book case (B772ER, A330 and B757)..oh, the calamity that would have been.. biggrin 
"Up the Irons!"
 
flamedude707
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:51 am

I'm in Cupertino and i felt it pretty good,(first earthquake experience) and it gave the house a pretty good rumble. I'm sure there will be no damage to SFO or SJC, considering it only knocked the unstable things off my shelf.
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Halophila
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:02 am

Down here in Santa Cruz it was very noticeable... rolling etc. But no damage. Worst thing that happened was that cell phones went out for a good 20 mins!

I was actually wondering what it was like at SJC... and what procedures were followed. Do they make announcements over the intercom?
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787EWR
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
What's the risk at SFO? Liquifaction of landfill? So the runways could sag in parts without actually breaking?

Didn't the state redo(or shore up) the runways after the quake in 1989? I know the runways had some minor damage, but I thought steps were taken to make sure they could survive a large earthquake.
 
F9Animal
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
Isn't a 5.6 magnitude quake strong enough to make things fall like a lamp off a nightstand or china off the wall, nothing more? I believe we've had a few earthquakes like that in the past here in Lancaster, PA and that was pretty much the extent of the damage...

It really depends on the depth of the quake. The closer the quake is to the surface, the more damage. A 5.6 could create some good damage, but again, depends on how shallow the quake is. We had a 6.8 (correct me if I am wrong!) hit here in Seattle awhile back, but the damage was not as bad since it was about 30 miles underground. BFI was a disaster as far as the runways sinking. IIRC, BFI was closed for months.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
..my house is only a few miles away from the epicentre...it was definitely a "shaker" (actually it was a "rolling" earthquake...shaking back and forth)...I wasn't too concerned as I knew what I had to do (I've been in a few "shakers" before)...fortunately nothing in my house broke......but things were rattling a bit..

Glad everyone is okay! I am terrified of earthquakes, and my nerves are still jacked up from the one we had up here in 2001. I sure hope you all don't get any aftershocks you can feel. Be safe, and be ready!!!
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copaair737
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting Buzz100ca (Reply 3):
We felt a good shake here in Modesto. I'm sure the runways in the Bay Area will be open in no time.

Same in my part of town here. People around here were going nuts. Not too often there's a quake in Modesto!
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n53614
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:41 am

It was a fun earthquake! I had just walked into a bar in Downtown San Jose when it hit; the quake lasted about 10-15 seconds...saw some go-arounds for SJC as the approach for 30L/R takes you right past downtown San Jose...no big deal really. Fun though!
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ogre727
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:57 am

Has anyone been in an EQ while on the ground inside an airplane? I have always wondered how that feels like.
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as739x
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:50 pm

Quoting B757capt (Reply 10):

United 927 was not a diversion. The SFO-LAX is the second segment of that flight. FRA-SFO-LAX.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):

Your definitely closer. You know with F.C. being landfill we don't feel them as much sometimes. My sister and step-mom felt it while they were in a store in Redwood City. But nothing in F.C.

Quoting Ogre727 (Reply 20):

A lot of shaking. I was not in a plane, but got first hand accounts when Seattle had the quake that damaged the control tower years ago. People went running out of the planes into the terminal. Which I find an interesting decision going from a safe environment to an environment where things can fall on you.

ASSFO
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Seafleet
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 9):
A 5.6 ho-hum!

Felt nothing here in Foster City

Well we had mirrors swinging about on the walls and books falling off a couple of shelves here in Santa Cruz, a bit disconcerting if you where driving Highway17 I guess.
Roger
 
Sinlock
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
What's the risk at SFO? Liquifaction of landfill? So the runways could sag in parts without actually breaking?

Looking at the page listed below SFO is in a high risk area for Liquifaction. It's mostly on Class E soil.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/nca/soiltype/
 
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Aaron747
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:28 pm

This is news? Puhleaze - we have a magnitude 4 or greater every few weeks in these parts!
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BigGSFO
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:41 pm

Here in Pacifica it shook pretty strong - knocked my martini over. Supposedly it was the strongest quake since 1989.
 
jamincan
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:45 pm

What is the plan of action in a larger earthquake if the ATC at a major airport like SFO is disrupted for whatever reason?
 
AirlineBrat
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:22 pm

Didn't feel anything up here in ACV. We are too far away (300 miles). The Lost Coast is due for a big one or at least that is what the old timers say. Normally this area gets a magnitude 7.0 every 10 years or so. The last major quake was in 1992. In one week there were three quakes just under 7.0. My friend said that he stopped putting books back on the shelf after the second quake hit.

SFO is definitely not built on solid ground. If you look at the roof of the International Terminal from the inside, you can see how they designed the building to withstand major tremors.
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
sphealey
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:31 pm

Railroads have available to them special-purpose "track geometry" cars[1] that can be run over a road to verify that the track is in the right place and in alignment and I would assume after an earthquake these are run over affected track to determine if everything is acceptable for use. Do airports in California have any similar automated measuring equipment, or is it a lot of junior surveyors crawling down the runways on their hands and knees with transits and mason's levels?

sPh

[1] These are very interesting units if you ever get the chance to see one - very interesting the amount of high-tech that is used to support a brute-force operation.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
Liquifaction of landfill?

Wise man builds his house on a rock... Not fill....
 
as739x
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:15 pm

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 26):

diversions, diversions, diversions

If a major quake hit SFO, you would also have the closure of SJC and OAK as well. So it would be mass diversions like in '89. Chances are you'd see some unusual visitors in the L.A. area, RNO, SMF-if not effected, LAS, PDX. Anywhere planes can go. Enroute flight would divert where they could per company issue's.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 29):

Foster City is landfill and had little damage during the '89 quake. It a matter of the quality of the landfill. The Marina in the city was very old fill and poorly done, were F.C. was done in the late 70's and was well done.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
TuRbUleNc3
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:22 pm

We didnt feel anything here.

Yes i know, its a joke.
 
roseflyer
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:36 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 17):
We had a 6.8 (correct me if I am wrong!) hit here in Seattle awhile back, but the damage was not as bad since it was about 30 miles underground. BFI was a disaster as far as the runways sinking. IIRC, BFI was closed for months.

SFO is at the same risk as BFI was. BFI's runway needed to be fully repaved causing an absolute mess (and I think that they still haven't finished the permanent solution) as Boeing had to move all 737 flight test operations to Everett. The Renton airport also suffered in that earthquake. Certain buildings at the Renton 737 manufacturing site were destroyed and production was shut down. BFI's runway had huge cracks in it. BFI is located on landfill that filled in the Duwamish river. Airports are often at risk from earthquakes because in a lot of cities like Seattle, landfill is one of the few ways to get enough flat land to build an airport.

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 26):
What is the plan of action in a larger earthquake if the ATC at a major airport like SFO is disrupted for whatever reason?

As said there would be a lot of diversoins. Unfortunately SFO is an airport that posses a great deal of risk. It is built on landfill, and therefore is very prone to earthquake damage.

Closing an airport for an earthquake is a lot more serious than bad weather as far as storms go. All the airlines are accustomed to diverting flights because of weather. Groundstops are not uncommon at all, which make planes divert to other airports due to thunderstorms, fog and various other problems. However when it is a weather related closure, the crews and dispatchers already planned for the possibility of a diversion. If weather conditions are at a certain point then all flights file a diversion airport on their flight plan. The big kicker is that they will carry extra fuel on board to wait out a hold or to divert.

When you have an earthquake the airport suddenly closes and planes don't have the extra fuel or planned diversion points. It can get messy really quickly with fuel emergencies if a high volume airport like SFO closes. Fortunately there are plenty of airports in the vicinity to divert to, but it is still not a good situation. All crews are trained on diversion procedures and nowadays with the navigation equipment and flight data computers, it isn't hard to divert at all. It takes just a few minutes to reprogram the computer to take you to a different airport. It's not like it once was when pilots would be messing with charts and trying to find airports. In the event of an earthquake, there's a good chance that ATC might take over and decide where to divert planes like they did on 9/11. Usually it is up to the company dispatcher, but pilots and ATC can overrule that.
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socalfive
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
What's the risk at SFO? Liquifaction of landfill? So the runways could sag in parts without actually breaking?

BINGO!

Quoting AS739X (Reply 30):
Foster City is landfill and had little damage during the '89 quake. It a matter of the quality of the landfill. The Marina in the city was very old fill and poorly done, were F.C. was done in the late 70's and was well done.

FILL IS FILL, there's no bedrock under it. The Marina District was actually filled right over old unused ships in the harbor, then built upon. But either way, with enough magnitude affecting the particular area liquifaction will occur and down it will go. I think about that every time we have a quake in SAN with me out on a peninsula in Mission Bay which is all dredged fill. Down here though, we mostly just get landslides and fires, not many quakes worth mentioning.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:50 pm

5.6-Borrrrriinnnnggg! I remeber Northridge like it was yesterday. Good times let me tell you!!!! My Super Mario Brothers wall clock fell off the wall and I was most upset.  Wink

I understand the airpot being careful however. Better safe than sorry!
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
stealth777
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:05 pm

heard on the tv this morning that some of the windows at SJC tower broke? has anyone else in the Bay Area heard about this? My dad heard it on the local NBC station, but haven't heard about it on any of the other news source.


oh by the way, try going thru a quake on the 9th floor of an apartment building in the city. Talk about rolling, swear the building kept on moving for 10 secs after the quake stopped.


-stealth
 
jamincan
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:12 pm

Perhaps I should clarify. What I meant was, what is the procedure/plan in a situation where the local ATC is completely disrupted due to a severe earthquake such that the ATC can't operate at all? I understand that they would instruct planes to divert in an earthquake, but if, for various reasons such as loss of backup power etc, they were unable to do that, what would the procedure be for aircraft already under its control? I guess this would apply to any situation where local control failed completely.
 
masseybrown
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:19 pm

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 23):
Looking at the page listed below SFO is in a high risk area for Liquifaction. It's mostly on Class E soil.

Thanks for that source - an informative site.
 
as739x
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:20 pm

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 33):

Agreed. I am just saying that F.C. was affected to much less of an extent during the '89 quake. There was also much discussion about the difference in quality between the Marina and F.C which are both fill.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
roseflyer
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:30 pm

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 36):
I understand that they would instruct planes to divert in an earthquake, but if, for various reasons such as loss of backup power etc, they were unable to do that, what would the procedure be for aircraft already under its control? I guess this would apply to any situation where local control failed completely.

I believe the correct procedure is to switch back to the last frequency that the pilots were able to communicated on. Even if the tower goes out, pilot's can attempt to call approach control, which should be manned and working. Pilots would then get instruction.

It isn't entire uncommon for pilot's to call up a tower and not get a response due to an incorrect frequency or the call being missed.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Sinlock
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 29):
Wise man builds his house on a rock... Not fill....

Well I guess we should start moving people out of cities such as Chicago, Washington DC, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Manhatten, and a few others as parts (if not all) are not built on rock.  scratchchin 
 
Airstud
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:58 pm

I felt nothing in San Leandro as I was walking home from the BART station. In fact I was walking from casa to Safeway to get some food when a bunch of tripped-out hoochies asked me if I felt it; I figured they had all been sharing the same bong.

I heard the Amtrak Capitol Corridor train whistling right by; figuring there couldn't have been quake or else Amtrak wouldn't be letting its trains move. BART always grinds to a halt for 20 mins after a quake so they can check for track damage.

Am flying SFO-SAN tomorra so I hope no aftershocks mess up my flights.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:04 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
Isn't a 5.6 magnitude quake strong enough to make things fall like a lamp off a nightstand or china off the wall, nothing more?



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 17):
It really depends on the depth of the quake. The closer the quake is to the surface, the more damage. A 5.6 could create some good damage, but again, depends on how shallow the quake is.

... and also depends on the local geology, which can help reducing the shaking at the surface, or instead amplify the signal. Which is why sometimes the ground damage does not have a radial distribution around the epicenter. And longer term effects also sometimes have to be monitored, such as (pointed out in this thread) ground liquifaction.

True however that 5.6 usually goes without extensive damage, even material damage. Over M 6 is getting a lot more serious (remember, 1 degree of magnitude is a factor of 10 more energy...).
When I doubt... go running!
 
sjc4me
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting Stealth777 (Reply 35):
heard on the tv this morning that some of the windows at SJC tower broke?

False. It wasn't bad enough to break windows. I live in San Jose and the worst thing that happened was my birthday cards fell off the bookshelf. I even busted out my scanner for a few minutes and the tower didn't miss a beat.
Unable.
 
Ps76
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:38 pm

Hi guys, I felt that at crown plaza foster city, during my lay over. Really different to those in MEXICO, my country.
first started like vertical one and then horizontal. last about 1 minute or so.
I talked early morning, with crew members, prior to dep from OAK and all have the same description.
I was aware about geologist have said....one big is coming.I guess not
Regards...AND Something important..Iam not PS76...I am PECEVANNE
 
phishphan70
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting Halophila (Reply 15):
Worst thing that happened was that cell phones went out for a good 20 mins!

cingular was out for me for an hour! i was sitting eating some Mexican food in my living room in Sunnyvale, and started feeling like i was hitting turbulence! being raised in the Bay Area, without thinking i ran to a door frame and shook for about 20 seconds. frightening, but after it was all over, i just took a sigh of relief that this wasn't the BIG ONE!!! i hope SJC, SFO and all the other bay area airports didn't receive any damage, and that no one was injured at all. the only injury i got was tripping and falling into the door frame during the quake!!!!!
 
787EWR
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:01 pm

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 23):
Looking at the page listed below SFO is in a high risk area for Liquifaction. It's mostly on Class E soil.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/...type/

Thanks. You answered my question. Didn't realize the extent of damage possible on the west coast and amazingly, western areas of Tennessee.
 
IFEMaster
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:48 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
Isn't a 5.6 magnitude quake strong enough to make things fall like a lamp off a nightstand or china off the wall, nothing more?

It depends on what the hypocentral depth of the quake is. A 5.6 at a depth of 5 miles will shake a whole lot more than a 5.6 at a depth of 10 miles.

But still...a 5.6 isn't much to write home about.
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Msl747
Posts: 349
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:20 pm

Pretty good shaking here in Fremont, enough to knock some stuff over... It is the strongest the Bay Area has had since '89...
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Boeing7E7
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RE: SFO Closed Due To Earthquake

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 40):
Well I guess we should start moving people out of cities such as Chicago, Washington DC, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Manhatten, and a few others as parts (if not all) are not built on rock.

Hong Kong and Tokyo are built on PSP structures which isolate the building from the fill. Manhatten has some of the finest bedrock available and Chicago is a major PSP area as well - neither is heavy earthquake prone like the west coast of the US. These runways are setting on the fill, they are not PSP structures and they will vanish in seconds with the right jolt.

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