Reggaebird
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:28 am

I doubt that in October or November 2043 people will get the chance to say, "...today is the last flight of an A380 for ????airline name here????...". They will be long gone from mainline service by then.

Reggaebird
 
Springbok295
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:21 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:59 am

I think it would be great to see SAA order some ultra long haul 777-200/300LR and operate them on the JNB-LAX or JNB-IAH routes...... you can dream can't you?

Wasn't SAA looking at starting up flights on these routes a few year back? In fact SAA used to fly JNB-IAH during the 1980's!

Are SAA getting anymore Airbus narrow aisle aircraft?
Springbok 295, the flight that never made it home, 28 November 1987, may they rest in peace.
 
tso
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:26 am

All RR-powered 744's are going to Transaero. GE pwoered ones will be subleased to PAL till 2010
 
Rj111
Posts: 3007
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:02 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 48):
B747-300SUD (These kids today)

There's no such thing as a 743SUD, they have a long upper deck as standard. The 747-200 had a short deck and could therefore be retrofitted to a SUD, but only KL flew the -200SUD to my knowledge.

Old gits these days eh? Big grin

[Edited 2007-11-02 02:34:12]
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:56 am

Quoting Springbok295 (Reply 51):
Are SAA getting anymore Airbus narrow aisle aircraft?

Don't bank on SAA getting any more aircraft at all. They did place an order for A320's, but I believe that has been shelved due the current financial situation.

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 50):
I doubt that in October or November 2043 people will get the chance to say, "...today is the last flight of an A380 for ????airline name here????...". They will be long gone from mainline service by then.

??? WTF? Last I checked this was about SAA 747's...
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
swallow
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:23 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 47):
Quoting American 767 (Reply 34):
British Airways still flies 747's to JNB and CPT, and will do so for at least five more years to come.

So will LH, at least to JNB.

KL, QF and MH also fly the 744 to JNB

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 41):
Question? Is the A340's better on fuel then the B744's??

I flew the 346 JNB-ATL when SA still refuelled in SID. The first officer told me they had taken on board 90 tons of gas during the refuelling stop and that on the 744 they would load 130 tons for the same sector. By way of comparison, SA lists the 744 passenger capacity as 358 vs. 333 for the 346 before they reduced the seats in Y [to increase seat pitch] and overall seat count fell to 313.
The grass is greener where you water it
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting Swallow (Reply 55):
KL, QF and MH also fly the 744 to JNB

Also, Cathay have been using the B744 lately, and then TAAG operate the B743 too
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
nema
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:18 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:49 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 47):
you're not required to have B747s - others have managed, and continue to do so, without them as well.

I agree, which is why my comment read that so many competitors have 747's, not suggesting all competitors have. Competitors who dont currently have 747's might never go that way, i felt that once youve got them its a difficult choice to decide to lose them altogether having been, i assume, very good investments and service providers and so much liked and trusted by the customer who flys on them.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:31 pm

Quoting Rj111 (Reply 53):
There's no such thing as a 743SUD, they have a long upper deck as standard. The 747-200 had a short deck and could therefore be retrofitted to a SUD, but only KL flew the -200SUD to my knowledge

I know that. SAA never had retrofit SUD's - they were all new build 300's. They were still called SUD's though.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:41 pm

Quoting NEMA (Reply 57):
having been, i assume, very good investments

Hi NEMA,

That's the problem. A lot of SAA aircraft were sold and leased back - so their value as assets flew out the window, and ushered in a new life of liability. They just recently sold some A340-600's on a lease-back deal. They can't seem to get above and stay above the red-line = big problem.

They have been blamed by SAA management as the leading cause for their record losses last year. They claim that the 5 or 6 744's accounted for over R500 million of their R883 million loss.

I wonder how an airline like BA can survive with 57 in their fleet? Something isn't right at SAA.
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
shankly
Posts: 1391
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:50 pm

Speedbird128 Indeed.

I've never been on a 744 or A346 on the LHR-CPT run that wasn't packed to the gunnels. If you can't make money on this and the JNB run with a 744, then you probably can't make money on anything. Something sadly amiss at the once wonderful SAA.

Is 747 presence at CPT now just BA, MAS and the seasonal LH? I have only ever seen Virgin 343 and 346's on the ground
L1011 - P F M
 
na
Posts: 9729
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting Tso (Reply 52):
All RR-powered 744's are going to Transaero. GE pwoered ones will be subleased to PAL till 2010

I was expecting that the RR-powered ones would all go to Transaero. That must be 4 aircraft. Didn´t hear about Philippine Airlines getting the other 2. Whats your source?
Does the Tranaero deal mean that the airline won´t be taking further 743s from JAL? Or does it mean the 742s will be retired soon (they are all well past 100.000 hours)?
 
nema
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:18 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:29 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 59):
Something isn't right at SAA



Quoting Shankly (Reply 60):
Something sadly amiss at the once wonderful SAA.



Quoting Shankly (Reply 60):
ve never been on a 744 or A346 on the LHR-CPT run that wasn't packed to the gunnels

Yep, if this is the case then sadly many questions are both answered and created here and, all that we can do with companies that are badly managed is watch frustratedly. If removing the 747's is therefore a good move financially when they were packing the punters in, i am speechless, particularly when as Speedbird says, BA have 57 of them.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3544
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 58):
I know that. SAA never had retrofit SUD's - they were all new build 300's. They were still called SUD's though

Ah ha, thats where my confusion came from then. I knew they called them SUD's, but I only thought that reffered to the -200 with the conversion, not the 300 as well !!. Umm now that means I have flown on a 747-100/200/300/400 now then. Just need to get on an SP !!.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 48):
Shouldn't be - everyone uses the same codes usually. JHB is Johore Bharu, Malaysia

No, some of the domestic carriers use the alternate codes such as the ones Leskova mentioned - have a closer look next time - try putting yer glasses on !!.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 63):
try putting yer glasses on !!.

:-P I'm not blind  Smile

The abbreviations JHB, CTN, DBN are used in SA on signs and in documents, but I've never seen them at airports, nor would they be used in any of the airport systems (SA and BA use RTB and RTZ respectively, the ground handling companies use axDCS or CODECO for the most part, all of which would use industry standard IATA codes). Any bag tags or boarding passes produced automatically would have the IATA codes on them. Maybe on pre-printed tags ? Even so, SAA's old pre-printed tags always had the correct code on them.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Stickers
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:10 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:21 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 31):
Quoting Stickers (Reply 29):
JHB

Ahem. JNB. Get it right...

Sorry - my bad.  embarrassed  As mentioned above, i am used to using the abbreviation in documents etc.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 34):
British Airways still flies 747's to JNB and CPT, and will do so for at least five more years to come.



Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 37):



Quoting Swallow (Reply 55):
British Airways still flies 747's to JNB and CPT, and will do so for at least five more years to come.

So will LH, at least to JNB.

KL, QF and MH also fly the 744 to JNB

Thanks, I was at JNB (got it right this time  Wink ) today, and saw a TAAG, Lufthansa, Cathay, and 2 British Airways 747's.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 56):
Also, Cathay have been using the B744 lately,

Thanks, as you mention them, it comes back to me. (Must be getting old.)  Silly

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 59):
They have been blamed by SAA management as the leading cause for their record losses last year. They claim that the 5 or 6 744's accounted for over R500 million of their R883 million loss.

I wonder how an airline like BA can survive with 57 in their fleet? Something isn't right at SAA.

 checkmark  Agreed, and very sad too.
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting Stickers (Reply 65):
saw a TAAG, Lufthansa, Cathay, and 2 British Airways 747's.

Check reply 56  Smile

Could have saved you the trip hehe... I spend (almost) every day there... Dunno whether that's good or bad...
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
grantcv
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:28 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:41 am

Sad day indeed. I remember being allowed to run outside during second grade class when the very first one arrived and flew over my school in 1971. One of the early experiences that created my interest in airliners. I finally got to fly on one of SAA's only last year too.
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3544
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 64):
Maybe on pre-printed tags ?

Yeah I believe that Onetime use the wrong codes on their pre-printed tags. Certainly did when I flew with them, although I never bothered to keep the tag as I wasn't expecting I would need it as prrof in an A.net discussion.

I'm coming back down in Dec for 5 days so I'll try and get a pic of one then if I remember !!.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
andz
Posts: 7656
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:57 am

My first ever 747 flight was SAA, HRE-LAD-LHR in November 1972  old 

Going to miss the 744s, I have a LHR-JNB flight in a couple of weeks.

Quoting A5XX (Reply 33):
I hope Ndizani will be saved.. She had the most beautiful livery of all the 747's that i've seen.

I took this pic of Ndizani at JNB several months ago, she is still parked in the same spot at Denel Aviation on the opposite side of the field from the airport. No idea what her fate will be.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/andzz/ZS-SAJ_1.jpg
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
flymad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:42 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 59):
That's the problem. A lot of SAA aircraft were sold and leased back - so their value as assets flew out the window, and ushered in a new life of liability. They just recently sold some A340-600's on a lease-back deal. They can't seem to get above and stay above the red-line = big problem.

They have been blamed by SAA management as the leading cause for their record losses last year. They claim that the 5 or 6 744's accounted for over R500 million of their R883 million loss.

I wonder how an airline like BA can survive with 57 in their fleet? Something isn't right at SAA.

[quote=NEMA,reply=62]Yep, if this is the case then sadly many questions are both answered and created here and, all that we can do with companies that are badly managed is watch frustratedly. If removing the 747's is therefore a good move financially when they were packing the punters in, i am speechless, particularly when as Speedbird says, BA have 57 of them.

Here is a quote from Kyaha Ngqula (CEO SAA) from an interview on Moneyweb on 04 June 2007
[Yes, they are no longer going to fly any more, and we are probably going to sublease to somebody, to some other people. And the reason for that is they are just too expensive for us. Mainly they are on the London route, and the London route has been a disaster in terms of profitability, the leasing costs. If you went out today and tried to get a 747, you would probably pay US$600 000 per month in the market. That is the rental you pay. And we are paying $1.2m.]
I think this says it all.
 
SAA201
Topic Author
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 2:37 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:56 am

Well, that flight mentioned on Thursday 1 Nov 2007 was the last SCHEDULED flight for SAA. However, it aint all over till the fat lady sings....

Due to a small incident involving an A340-600 yesterday at Cape Town (see http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...&art_id=nw20071102201055572C724507 ), some reshuffling on the schedules has had to take place. B747-444, ZS-SAK, has been called back for an encore performance today. The aircraft will operate the Perth flight delayed from last night as SA9280, returning tomorrow sometime as SA9281.

So there's at least one more chance to catch some pics of an SAA B747 in flight with a Springbok callsign!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 68):
Yeah I believe that Onetime use the wrong codes on their pre-printed tags.

Pfft, 1Time ?  Yeah sure That explains it. LCC's, eh ? What can you do do...?

Quoting Andz (Reply 69):
My first ever 747 flight was SAA, HRE-LAD-LHR in November 1972

Back then it would have been SAY (Salisbury) - one of the few cities ever to change name AND code.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
QF744ER
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:59 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:27 pm

SAA201,

I'm told ZS-SAZ is operating the delayed SA9280/9281 JNB-PER-JNB not -SAK.

rgds

Tom/PER
 
A5XX
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:36 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:09 pm

Quoting Andz (Reply 69):
I took this pic of Ndizani at JNB several months ago, she is still parked in the same spot at Denel Aviation on the opposite side of the field from the airport. No idea what her fate will be.

Since her engines have been removed, i'd say the outlook is not very good...  Angry  Sad It's only a matter of time before she's gonna be broken up...  Sad

A5XX
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
AirAmericaC46
Posts: 489
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:23 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:34 pm

Anybody else had flight experiences with SA 747s-----type of 747 aircraft, routing (incllude techstops or diversions) and year or decade of your flight. Thanks!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:59 pm

Details, you say ?

14Aug80 SA 225 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAM LHR LPA JNB
24May88 SA 228 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAO JNB ABJ LHR
29Jun88 SA 247 SAA B747SP ZS-SPE MAD JNB
28Oct88 SA 286 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAM JNB MRU HKG
29Oct88 SA 287 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAM HKG MRU JNB
04Nov88 SA 286 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAO JNB MRU HKG
05Nov88 SA 287 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAO HKG MRU
06Nov88 SA 193 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAO MRU DUR JNB
23Feb89 SA 252 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAO JNB FRA AMS
28Feb89 SA 235 SAA B747-300 ZS-SAT LHR JNB
07Sep89 SA 260 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAL JNB LIS FCO
01Oct89 SA 235 SAA B747-300 ZS-SAU LHR JNB
10May90 SA 234 SAA B747-300 ZS-SAU JNB lis* LHR *div LIS due fuel
13May90 SA 235 SAA B747-300 ZS-SAU LHR JNB
13Jul90 SA 261 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAL FCO LIS JNB
06Sep90 SA 282 SAA B747-200M ZS-SAR JNB MRU TPE
02Oct90 SA 206 SAA B747SP ZS-SPE GIG CPT JNB
24Jan91 SA 234 SAA B747-300 ZS-SAT JNB LHR
27Jan91 SA 235 SAA B747-300 ZS-SAT LHR JNB
25Jul92 SA 9262 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAO JNB BCN ORY
01Aug92 SA 9273 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAP ZRH BCN JNB
04Oct92 SA 201 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAP JNB SID JFK
28Oct92 SA 235 SAA B747-400 ZS-SAW LHR JNB
10Apr93 SA 203 SAA B747-400 ZS-SAV JNB CPT MIA
19Apr93 SA 202 SAA B747-400 ZS-SAV JFK JNB
01Jul93 SA 260 SAA B747-200 ZS-SAP JNB MXP AMS
31Mar94 SA 235 SAA B747-300 ZS-SAU LHR JNB
04Apr94 SA 234 SAA B747-400 ZS-SAX JNB LHR
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
andz
Posts: 7656
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:30 pm

Quoting QF744ER (Reply 73):
I'm told ZS-SAZ is operating the delayed SA9280/9281 JNB-PER-JNB not -SAK.

An SAA 744 flew over where I was at 15:25 local today climbing out of JNB... great to see!
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
AJ
Posts: 2298
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting Rj111 (Reply 53):
There's no such thing as a 743SUD, they have a long upper deck as standard. The 747-200 had a short deck and could therefore be retrofitted to a SUD, but only KL flew the -200SUD to my knowledge.

Old gits these days eh?

Hi RJ. Boeing did use 'SUD' for marketing the 747-300 when it was first released, I even have the advertisement here somewhere. When the aircraft was sold to Qantas the medical profession used SUD to denote Sudden Unexplained Death so Mr. Boeing then applied 'EUD' for Extended Upper Deck. Both fell by the wayside at some point, although there are still documents around that refer to the 747-338EUD. This was many years before anyone even considered converting -100s and -200s as KLM and JAL have (perhaps UTA as well?).
 
andz
Posts: 7656
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting AJ (Reply 78):
Boeing did use 'SUD' for marketing the 747-300 when it was first released

When SAA had 747-300s they were simply referred to as "the SUDs".
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting AirAmericaC46 (Reply 75):
Anybody else had flight experiences with SA 747s-----type of 747 aircraft, routing (incllude techstops or diversions) and year or decade of your flight. Thanks!

I flew on a couple of SA's early 747-200s in 1976 JFK-SID-JNB and back via the same routing. SID = Sal, Cape Verde Islands, then used heavily as a refuelling stop by SA on both their JFK flights and many flights to Europe since they couldn't overfly most other countries in Africa then.

Although I was in economy class (nonrev ticket) the service was very good and don't think any of the flights were much over half full so I had 3 or 4 seats to myself and could fold up the armrests and sleep.

I remember the fuel stops at SID both ways which were in the middle of the night (JFK-SID is only about 6 hours). If you wished you could deplane into the tiny SID terminal which was sort of in the open air and I recall there were quite a few mangy stray dogs running around the terminal building. It's probably improved since then!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Last Ever SAA B747 Flight Today

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Springbok295 (Reply 51):
I think it would be great to see SAA order some ultra long haul 777-200/300LR and operate them on the JNB-LAX or JNB-IAH routes...... you can dream can't you?

There isn't a plane in this universe that could fly JNB-LAX profitably, but a nice A340-500 could do JNB-IAH just fine.

NS

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