ual747-600
Topic Author
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787 Status

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:08 pm

Well here we are Nov. 1 and the 787 still remains in the factory. There have been many LCF flights recently and I was wondering whats been assembled so far. Can anyone provide details?

UAL747-600
 
NYC777
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Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:16 pm

The wings for the fatigue frame have been delivered early this week and I understand that they have already attached the winglets to them and ar preparing them for mating to the fuselage. The fuselage isn't in yet but there is one LCF at CHS today and the other one is flying to CHS from Everett later this afternoon.

The fatigue test frame is supposed to arrive into Everett soon. LN 2 which will the next flying test air frame is due to start final assembly around late November or early December.

LN 1 is in position 4 at the 787 final assembly line with the static frame in position 2. That leaves position 1 open to accept the next air frame (the fatigue test frame). It's in position 1 where all three fuselage sections, the wing, HTP and VTP are all joined along with the landing gear and the engines.

Oh and the static test frame is due to be moved to the iron maiden for the start of static testing around the first week of December.

[Edited 2007-11-01 08:26:26]
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ual747-600
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:55 pm

Thanks for the update NYC777.

UAL747-600
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:31 pm

Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 2):
Thanks for the update NYC777.

No prob!!!!  thumbsup   wave 
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Danny
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:35 pm

What is the progress of LN1?
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:13 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 4):
What is the progress of LN1?

From what I've heard they're doing wiring installation and some systems work. They still need brackets and clips for this internal outfitting.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
swallow
Posts: 182
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:14 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 4):
What is the progress of LN1?

She was taken off the jacks and is on her landing gear. She should be structurally complete and systems installation is probably in progress together with installation of test equipment. I do not know whether the FCS is ready and has been debugged. With flightblogger offline and the Seattle papers not saying much about assembly, news titbits have been few and far between.

If first flight is Q1 2008, power-on may take place next month or Jan 08 assuming no further delays.

Are the GEnx engines ready?
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Had "lunch" with some 787 engineers yesterday (like the 747-8 folks, they were at the next table) and they seemed up-beat. Talked more of family then the program, but didn't hear any griping or complaining.
 
deltadude
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RE: 787 Status

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:17 pm

Quoting Swallow (Reply 6):
With flightblogger offline and the Seattle papers not saying much about assembly, news titbits have been few and far between.

What happened to flightblogger? He was such a good source.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Status

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):



Quoting Deltadude (Reply 8):
What happened to flightblogger? He was such a good source.

He will be back very very soon.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: 787 Status

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:24 pm

Some additional detail was provided by Spirit's Thrird Quarter Earnings Conference

go for the "SPR Q3-07 Earnings Presentation"powerpoint available here:
http://www.spiritaero.com/investor.a...ID=1117&id=11&p=irol-presentations

So far Spirit has fabricated 13 nose sections, the last one was "Line Unit #10". If you go to page 73 of the "SPR Investor Day Presentation" under the same link you'll find that they were at "Line Unit #4" end of March 2007. That means the production rate on average was slightly more than one section 41 per month.

Only(?) six wing leading edges were delivered, plus thirteen pylons (is that shipsets of two each?), and there's mention that they are "incorporating engineering changes", whatever that means - seems it is deemed noteworthy.
 
mattcawby
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RE: 787 Status

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 9):
Quoting Deltadude (Reply 8):
What happened to flightblogger? He was such a good source.

He will be back very very soon.

Let's hope not, the last thing we need is another long distance expert
paineairport.com
 
grantcv
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RE: 787 Status

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting Mattcawby (Reply 11):
Let's hope not, the last thing we need is another long distance expert

Well I, for one, miss his blogging.
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:02 am



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
The fatigue test frame is supposed to arrive into Everett soon.

Looks like it just did. There was a flight from CHS on 11 November, and another from IAB today. That sounds like a center or rear fuselage and a section 41. Does anyone have more detail?
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:06 am



Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 13):
Looks like it just did. There was a flight from CHS on 11 November, and another from IAB today. That sounds like a center or rear fuselage and a section 41. Does anyone have more detail?

I saw both DreamLifters at PAE this evening, but they were not unloading at the time.
 
mattcawby
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:17 am

N747BC brought a nose section from Wichita this morning.
Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 694 File size: 295kb
paineairport.com
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:30 am



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
LN 1 is in position 4 at the 787 final assembly line with the static frame in position 2.

So they moved it ahead from spot 3? It also means they can move it out at any time to allow frames behind it to jump the line. That's progress, as it was stopping up the works before.

Quoting Swallow (Reply 6):
Are the GEnx engines ready?

The first frames will fly with RR, and they are already ready. They were hanging on the rollout "mockup" of LN1.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Jetranger01
Posts: 9
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:42 pm

Hi all first post here...... watched from the rafters for a while and now iv joined.

Although im not keen on the 787 its nice to hear that its comming on well. Shame about the delay but sometimes that cant be helped. will be nice to see it fly.

Jetranger01
 
albird87
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:56 pm

Out of interest.... How are the Dreamlifters coming along?? Are there not suppose to be 4 built to bring supplies to PAE for the 787?? People say there are 2 flying at the moment, have they found 2 other aircraft to be converted??

Lets hope that as soon as LN1 gets complete and ready to get to work, hopefully we shall see the line moving a bit faster.

When will boeing get the manufacturing certificate for the 787?? I know the A380 has been having problems with this so im wondering if the 787 will be the same??
 
brendows
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:02 pm



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 18):
How are the Dreamlifters coming along?? Are there not suppose to be 4 built to bring supplies to PAE for the 787?? People say there are 2 flying at the moment, have they found 2 other aircraft to be converted??

The third LCF is undergoing conversion in Taipei at the moment, and I'd guess that the fourth is being prepared outside the hangar, just like LCF #2 was when LCF #1 was undergoing conversion.
The fourth LCF is a former MH bird.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:10 pm



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 18):
When will Boeing get the manufacturing certificate for the 787?

The 787 production certificate will be completed by the time LN0007 is delivered to NH towards the end of 2008.

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 18):
I know the A380 has been having problems with this so I'm wondering if the 787 will be the same?

No. Boeing is holding up the entire production process to complete LN0001 and get a single, unified production certificate.

Airbus was required to wait until MSN025 to get their production certificate because the first 24 planes had to be "custom built" due to the re-wiring and other modifications that needed to be done.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:44 pm



Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 13):
Looks like it just did. There was a flight from CHS on 11 November, and another from IAB today. That sounds like a center or rear fuselage and a section 41. Does anyone have more detail?

Section 41 arrived yesterday at MAtt had pointed out. SEction 47/48 (rear fuselage) should be in Everett tomorrow from my understanding. The main fuselage should be in soon after Thanksgiving. These are all for the fatigue test air frame (ZA9998). The static test air frame (ZA9997) will be moved out from position 1 and into position 2 on the final assembly line by Saturday.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:23 pm

Is this the first and last time an airliner will be built on such a 'global' scale? To hear the comments from the ex-head of the 787 program (Bair, I think), he pretty much suggested that it was a huge mistake in retrospect and that a self-contained 'campus' would be much the better way to proceed. Of course, when you're the 'ex-head,' you can say things like that. Just like a presidential candidate can say whatever they want. Anyway, I'm not sure how 'practical' a 'central campus' would be in building and sourcing all the bits & pieces a new airliner will need.

Chris in NH
 
brendows
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:20 pm

Does anyone know what one of the LCFs is doing at KBLV right now? It flew from PAE as EIA5106, the flight number normally used when flying parts from PAE-CHS?
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:20 pm



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 18):
When will boeing get the manufacturing certificate for the 787??

The usual practice is to receive the airworthiness and production certificates at the same time. This allows for changes in the build definition as required by the flight test results. Boeing won't be asking for the production certificate until 4Q'08 per the current schedule.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:53 pm



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 23):
Is this the first and last time an airliner will be built on such a 'global' scale?

Maybe... Maybe not...

The 737RS fuselage could easily be built as one complete piece and shipped via an LCF, so Boeing may just pick the one 787 contractor that performed the best and give them the entire 797RS fuselage contract. And assuming the Japanese get their wing production up to speed, they could land the 737RS contract, as well.

So it may be the case of only two LCF movements per frame needed and no worries about fuselage section matings.

Y3 on the other hand...  Wink
 
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zeke
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:25 pm

The way Boeing are talking, sounds like the 787 might be the last airframe made in Washington state.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:12 pm



Quoting Zeke (Reply 26):
The way Boeing are talking, sounds like the 787 might be the last airframe made in Washington state.

Renton is making a huge amount of tax money off the parking lots Boeing sold off which have been converted to retail and housing. Business is booming and Boeing workers are being replaced by shoppers.

Should Boeing decide to build the 737NG in another state, the local economy might very well be better off...
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:17 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
Should Boeing decide to build the 737NG in another state, the local economy might very well be better off...

Oregon sounds good. Though with the 737RS size, it need not be a site with ocean access. It's small enough to carry via rail or river capable ship, so could be anywhere on navigable/non freezing sections of the missouri, ohio or mississippi rivers.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: 787 Status

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:39 pm

come visit the south pacific
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787 Status

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:07 pm



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 29):
So late January for for first test flight?!

They are just quoting Jon. Good work Jon!!!

And they say late Feb, not Jan. Powerup in January. Then you need to do ground testing, including things like full engine runup, aborted takeoff runs, brake testing (though not the full test). You must make sure the plane can take off, and not take off, before you even try to actually take off...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: 787 Status

Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:56 pm



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 30):
brake testing (though not the full test).

Is that what went wrong in Toulouse?


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come visit the south pacific
 
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zeke
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RE: 787 Status

Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:47 am



Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
Should Boeing decide to build the 737NG in another state, the local economy might very well be better off...

The noises Don Brunell is making, makes me think the 787 may well be the last new aircraft Boeing assembles in Washington State. Boeing often seems to use him as a voice to announce possible changes to gauge the response.

I remember reading recently the amount of money being injected in the economy with the Boeing Christmas bonus, without a major employer like that in the area, the long term flow in my view will not be positive.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Status

Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:35 am



Quoting Zeke (Reply 32):
I remember reading recently the amount of money being injected in the economy with the Boeing Christmas bonus, without a major employer like that in the area, the long term flow in my view will not be positive.

As a resident of the area, the long-term view of Boeing leaving will not be bad, I assure you.

Even with 737 production back to pre-2001 levels and a third line coming in, Boeing continues to shrink their presence in Renton because they don't need the same level of workers with their new moving lines and improved lean production methods.

I just drove by the factory this evening on my way to my sister's for an early Thanksgiving dinner and where there used to be 10,000 parking spots is now a very large and very busy retail mall. And new apartments, condos, and hotels are going up all over. The city even made an attempt to land our local NBA team (though the owners bought it with the express intention to move it to OKC) with a new stadium and convention center in the area.

Trust me. Boeing paychecks are nice, but the tax-base that land is generating now is significantly more then when it held cars for employees working at the factory. Microsoft is expanding significantly in the area, and we have many other major employers. Boeing is still big, but it is no longer the foundation of our economy.

WA will do quite well without Boeing.

The trick is, will Boeing do quite well without WA - more specifically, without the workforce here that has been building planes for almost a century.
 
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zeke
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RE: 787 Status

Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:57 am



Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):

Trust me. Boeing paychecks are nice, but the tax-base that land is generating now is significantly more then when it held cars for employees working at the factory. Microsoft is expanding significantly in the area, and we have many other major employers. Boeing is still big, but it is no longer the foundation of our economy.

I was wrong, it was a $3,000 Thanksgiving bonus, added $67.5 million into the economy http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wa_boeing_bonus.html (notice the bit about a possible strike next year)

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):

The trick is, will Boeing do quite well without WA - more specifically, without the workforce here that has been building planes for almost a century.

See what Don was saying ... http://www.columbian.com/business/bu...ington-or-Boeing-may-fly-away.cfm/

The reasons Don is stating for Boeing, apply to any other employer as well.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Status

Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:00 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 34):
The reasons Don is stating for Boeing, apply to any other employer as well.

Yes, but Washington also has some advantages in terms of quality of life and other "intangibles". When polled during the 787 assembly site selection process, the strng majority of engineers and other technical workers on the 787 program did not want to move to Texas or the South because they felt the quality of life and things like education for their children were much lower then in WA.

Also, WA continues to tweak itself to make it more palatable to businesses of all types.

Again, take the word of a 25-year resident of the Puget Sound area. If Boeing leaves, we won't need to turn out the lights. Besides, we're off-topic as is.

[Edited 2007-11-18 09:04:29]
 
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flying_727
Posts: 383
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RE: 787 Status

Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:21 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
Even with 737 production back to pre-2001 levels and a third line coming in,

There is no third 737 line coming in. line two produces less then line one, and there is room left on line two to support increases in 737 monthly rates.

Also,
On Saturday morning the static 787 was pulsed into position 3 behind line 1 in position 4. The nose section of fatigue is now in the door at position 1.

Flying_727
On ATA, You're On Vacation
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26731
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RE: 787 Status

Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:24 pm



Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 36):
There is no third 737 line coming in. line two produces less then line one, and there is room left on line two to support increases in 737 monthly rates.

I am pretty sure Boeing intends to start a third line to support volume production of the P-8 Poseidon.
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
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RE: 787 Status

Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:45 pm



Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 36):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
Even with 737 production back to pre-2001 levels and a third line coming in,

There is no third 737 line coming in. line two produces less then line one, and there is room left on line two to support increases in 737 monthly rates.

The third 737 line is mostly built. It's in the building to the South of the one housing lines 1 and 2. Major tooling is in place. First product off it will probably be the P8-A.

Tom.
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
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RE: 787 Status

Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:03 am



Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
Trust me. Boeing paychecks are nice, but the tax-base that land is generating now is significantly more then when it held cars for employees working at the factory. Microsoft is expanding significantly in the area, and we have many other major employers. Boeing is still big, but it is no longer the foundation of our economy.

That mall and those apartments are likely filled with Boeing employees or employees who have benefited from Boeing in one way or another, and the tax-base generated by a previous parking lot is likely linked directly to the 787 being FA'ed in Washington. If Washington State could do better without Boeing, they wouldn't have (re)written their tax laws for Boeing. Washington State knew very well what was on the line. Boeing, as you say, have been trying to pull out of Washington for some time, but as long as they are made to feel "needed", I don't think they'll go anywhere.

As for Microsoft, they may be expanding but nothing like they are outside that area. They are pissed that the US has made it just slightly tougher to transfer technology jobs overseas, and in retaliation, Microsoft is opening a software development center - in Canada where they can do as they please.

Just my opinion, of course.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: 787 Status

Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:15 pm



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 38):
The third 737 line is mostly built. It's in the building to the South of the one housing lines 1 and 2. Major tooling is in place. First product off it will probably be the P8-A.

Tom.

So can this third line build ordinary 737s as well?? or only the P8-A

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26731
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RE: 787 Status

Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:18 pm



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 40):
So can this third line build ordinary 737s as well?? or only the P8-A

It could build commercial customer 737s, but is being set aside for military customer planes due to comply with IATA concerns.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: 787 Status

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:55 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
Renton is making a huge amount of tax money off the parking lots Boeing sold off which have been converted to retail and housing. Business is booming and Boeing workers are being replaced by shoppers.

Should Boeing decide to build the 737NG in another state, the local economy might very well be better off...

You need people who are earning money to shop at those retail stores and to buy up those houses.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: 787 Status

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:57 pm



Quoting Zeke (Reply 32):
I remember reading recently the amount of money being injected in the economy with the Boeing Christmas bonus, without a major employer like that in the area, the long term flow in my view will not be positive.

Nothing like the bonuses that Microsoft puts out.
 
Rheinbote
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:30 pm

RE: 787 Status

Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:04 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 41):
set aside for military customer planes due to comply with IATA concerns.

should read ITAR for International Traffic in Arms Regulations concerns maybe?
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26731
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 787 Status

Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:11 pm



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 44):
should read ITAR for International Traffic in Arms Regulations concerns maybe?

Yup.  embarrassed 
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: 787 Status

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:42 am



Quoting Khobar (Reply 39):
That mall and those apartments are likely filled with Boeing employees or employees who have benefited from Boeing in one way or another, and the tax-base generated by a previous parking lot is likely linked directly to the 787 being FA'ed in Washington. If Washington State could do better without Boeing, they wouldn't have (re)written their tax laws for Boeing.

There's a big difference between Washington State being better off and the City of Renton being better off. Washington doesn't want Boeing to go anywhere. Renton would dearly love Boeing to get their plant off of Renton's prime real estate.

Tom.
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26731
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 787 Status

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:06 pm

In a small blurb in this morning's Seattle Times, Boeing and Torray noted they are considering increasing CFRP production by 40% - sufficient to build 14 787s a month from the current planned 10 starting in 2010.

EDIT - Zeke was kind enough to direct me to a much more in-depth article at Bloomberg.com - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=alwGtWMV8OYk&refer

[Edited 2007-11-20 06:23:10]

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