FCKC
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GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:24 pm

http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article...rets-a-motoriser-l-a350-xwb.121230

Sorry unable to find a link in English.

GE will probably take a decision next year about a launch of a new engine (different to the Genx) to power the A350XWB.
Snecma could be risk partner for 10-20 %.

Soon , 2 engines for the A350XWB ?
 
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:27 pm

GE was always going to join the A350 program as long as they could leverage the engine with another family of planes (i.e. - 787HGW/Y3) to ensure an adequate RoI.

An advantage to being "late to the party" is GE will know what RR is offering on the XWB and will be able to tailor their engine not only for the A350, but also for the 787HGW/Y3.
 
NYC777
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:44 pm

I wonder if they're going to power the A350-1000? I think that has been the sticking point.
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
I wonder if they're going to power the A350-1000? I think that has been the sticking point.

If the 787HGW or Y3 need a powerplant in the 95,000lb+ range, I expect they will.
 
trex8
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:52 pm

so snecma is back on the GEnx! AF order coming up!
 
Scipio
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:15 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
I wonder if they're going to power the A350-1000? I think that has been the sticking point.

If, as the article mentions, GE is going to invest $1 bn in this engine, I cannot see it not powering the -1000. They would not invest that kind of money in an engine that covers more or less the same thrust range as the GEnx.

It seems that the A350 is gaining significant momentum. If this news is confirmed, it means that the A350 will not only offer engine choice, but excellent engine choice, of beyond-GEnx efficiency.

The question this raises is, what does this mean for the competitiveness of the 787-8 and 787-9? Can the GEnx and the Trent-1000 catch up with the efficiency of the XWB engines?
 
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:43 pm

He said...

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
different to the Genx

You said...

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 4):
so snecma is back on the GEnx!

....hmm, ADD?  Wink
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:50 pm

Quoting Scipio (Reply 5):
The question this raises is, what does this mean for the competitiveness of the 787-8 and 787-9? Can the GEnx and the Trent-1000 catch up with the efficiency of the XWB engines?

They don't necessarily have to, since the A350 will have an "MEW penalty" compared to the lighter 787s which the newer engines will help to address.
 
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keesje
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
An advantage to being "late to the party" is GE will know what RR is offering on the XWB and will be able to tailor their engine not only for the A350, but also for the 787HGW/Y3.

I think RR and GE/SNECMA (CFM?) will be ready at the same time & RR has a headstart so not a real advantage..

If I was Pratt I would be worried. While the Airbus XWB engineers do their work specifying and integrating integrating the new engines, their A380 collegaes wil be looking over their sholder.. and GE probably won´t invest to much in GP7000 improvements..
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prebennorholm
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting Scipio (Reply 5):
If this news is confirmed, it means that the A350 will not only offer engine choice, but excellent engine choice, of beyond-GEnx efficiency.

Not necessarily "beyond GEnx efficiency".

At only $1bn R&D money it may look more like a scaled up version of the bleeded GEnx already being developed for the B748. It hardly looks like a new engine design which can make any significant jump in efficiency.
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 9):
At only $1bn R&D money it may look more like a scaled up version of the bleeded GEnx already being developed for the B748. It hardly looks like a new engine design which can make any significant jump in efficiency.

It's more likely an engine that brings the GEnx and GE90-115 series changes to the original bleed GE90 concept with thrust range of 72-98k just like the GE90.

And no matter how much like the GEnx and GE90 it is, Airbus wants it to be called a new engine, because they are pushing the idea that the A350 is a generation ahead of the 787.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Scipio
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 9):
Not necessarily "beyond GEnx efficiency".

Airbus has been demanding "beyond GEnx efficiency" and the Trent-XWB will offer it.
Given also that the price tag for the GE-XWB is the same as that of the GEnx, I think it is inevitable that it will be a more efficient engine.

The price tag suggests that GE has decided to give Airbus what it wants and offer a product that will be competitive with the Trent-XWB.

Now that we have competition, I think we will see two excellent, state-of-the-art engines on the A350. My bet is that the efficiency gap over the (current) GEnx and Trent-1000 will surprise on the upside.

Scipio.
 
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keesje
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:57 pm

How about the Boeing - GE deal on 777 seized aircraft?

"Airbus happened to build an aircraft that overlaps with the 777, where we have an exclusivity agreement with GE," said Scott Carson, chief executive of Boeing's commercial aircraft division, in an interview. "Are we going to give that up? Not on your life." (WSJ july 2007)
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justloveplanes
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
How about the Boeing - GE deal on 777 seized aircraft?

"Airbus happened to build an aircraft that overlaps with the 777, where we have an exclusivity agreement with GE," said Scott Carson, chief executive of Boeing's commercial aircraft division, in an interview. "Are we going to give that up? Not on your life." (WSJ july 2007)

Looks like if you want a 3510, you will have to go RR and if you want a 787 HGW, you have to go GE. GE and RR can be offered on other models.
 
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
How about the Boeing - GE deal on 777 seized aircraft?

The deal is triggered by MTOW. I believe it is any plane with an MTOW over 750,000lbs, but it could be 700,000lbs.

At last report, MTOW for the A350-1000 was 650,000lbs.

So GE can build any darn engine they want for the A350-1000.

And the A350-900R.

And the A350-900F.
 
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
the A350 will have an "MEW penalty" compared to the lighter 787s

Do elaborate.  Smile
 
Norcal773
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:57 am

Where's PM when you need him?.  biggrin 
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Scipio
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
How about the Boeing - GE deal on 777 seized aircraft?

Whatever deal they have (and it is clearly not clear that this deal currently prevents GE from offering an engine for the A350-1000), Boeing and GE are so dependent of each other that an old deal will not stand in the way of a new deal.

After all, Boeing will want GE power for its 787HGWs.

I find it inconceivable that GE would be unable to find a way to power the A350-1000 if it wanted to.

Scipio.
 
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 16):
Where's PM when you need him?

He seems to have been AWOL for a while, or perhaps RR not discussed enough!

Come back PM, all is forgiven.  Big grin

The difficulty of finding out what the configuration of the TXWB is as opposed to the detail available for the T1700 when it "existed" suggests to me, as Scipio indicates, that RR are not regarding the time between the 787 and the A350XWB as a scheduled holiday.
 
Scipio
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 15):
the A350 will have an "MEW penalty" compared to the lighter 787s

Do elaborate.

I hope he will.

Neither Boeing nor Airbus seem to have empty weight data on their websites.

The difficulty, of course, is to find comparable weights to compare. Which models to compare? And in what configurations?

The 787-9 and A350-800 have exactly the same MTOW and similar payload-range performance:

B787-9

MTOW = 540,000 lbs
passengers = 250-290
range = 8,000-8,500 nm

A350-800

MTOW = 540,000 lbs
passengers = 270
range = 8,300 nm

Having more efficient engines, this could imply that the A350-800 (with its larger wings and heavier structure shared with the larger A350 models) has a higher empty weight, but burns less fuel to accomplish the same mission.

Am I wrong?

On a per-seat basis, the B787 would be significantly lighter when comparing 9-abreast configurations. But then, 9 abreast on the B787 will not be as comfortable as 9-abreast on the A350, so comparability remains a problem.
 
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:51 am

GE come on board just in time to potentially grab the Emirates 350 engine contract.

And Tim Clark gets what he asked for; a higher thrust engine for the 7810. He wanted at least 83,000 lb thrust. Whether that will influence his decision on the large twin order remains to be seen.
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 16):
Where's PM when you need him? biggrin



Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
He seems to have been AWOL for a while

He's been photographing gulls (OK, "Seagulls" if you must) for another website. I also got fed up battling with the new server.  Sad

As for GE on the A350, the big winner in this is ... the A350. If anyone still doubted that Airbus have a potential winner on their hands then GE may be about to disabuse them. They aren't going to put $1,000,000,000 into a new programme - esepcially one where there's already a strong competitor with a head-start in sales - if they don't anticipate a large market.

Of course we'll continue to get the Kindergarten crowd droning on about "the A350 is still a paper plane" and "how can GE design an engine for an airplane that doesn't exist" blah, bah, blah, but wiser heads here will read the tealeaves for what they are.

Somewhere else last week (or whenever) that I wondered why several A350XWB customers still haven't announced an engine order and why RR don't list them on their website. The only credible answer is that they haven't yet concluded that the choice is RR or RR. Thus Aer Lingus and Aeroflot, to mention two, may well be keeping their options open in the hope (expectation?) that GE will be available long before they need to make a decision.

If you aren't taking delivery until, say, 2013, I assume you can delay an engine choice until, say, 2010 or 2011. In that case I wonder why so many airlines have signed for RR. It's worth remembering that Finnair and Qatar, for example, are long-term GE operators yet both have selected the TXWB.

But airlines sometimes send mixed signals. SQ, for example, complained about the lack of engine choice on the A350XWB but then immediately chose the Trent. If other airlines have chosen to postpone a decision, why couldn't SQ?

Another factor in all this may be the A380-900 or future versions of the A388. With the TXWB RR may have an advantage when Airbus decide to move up a generation away from the T900 and GP7000. A bonus for GE in entering the A350XWB fray may be the chance to protect their position on the A380.

But it was never likely that GE could sit out the A350XWB. Their current cash cow - the 77W - was an astute investment but by, say, 2015, it is unlikely to have many sales left in it.

What will be selling in 2015? Try this:

The 787 (where GE currently have a modest advantage but where they are unlikely ever to have better than a 60:40 lead over RR).
The A380 (where RR currently enjoy a significant advantage in terms of customers).
The A350 (where RR are for now the only option).

If these three models are the three leading widebodies (in terms of sales) in the second decade of the century then GE shunning the A350 would almost guarantee RR market leadership. There's an amazing thought!

Of course, there are a lot of assumptions in the above. Will the A380 still be selling in significant numbers? I happen to think it will but others won't agree. Will the 747 (with GE exclusivity) be relegated to a niche market as a freighter? I believe so but I could be wrong. Will sales of the 777 being falling away? Seems likely. Will the A350 be selling strongly? I guess so. Will RR keep up with GE sales on the 787? My hunch is that they will. Will Boeing have launched Y3? Hmmm - not before well into the decade and probably not soon enough to prevent both the A350 and A380 amass some healthy business.

It may have had a tortuous birth and it may be 'late' compared to the 787 but the A350 looks like selling in numbers that are too important for GE to ignore.

So GE will be on board.

Bugger.  grumpy 
 
scouseflyer
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:50 am

I guess we're going to be seeing a GECAS order for the A350 soon as well then!
 
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keesje
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting Swallow (Reply 20):
GE come on board just in time to potentially grab the Emirates 350 engine contract.

passed my mind  Wink

I think it isn't the only reason but could have been an extra incentive seeing RR doing Champagne with QR, US and SQ and ILFC, QF, BA, CX, EK asking publicly whats the deal on the 787-10 / A350XWB engine..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
FWI747
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:35 am

Quoting Scipio (Reply 19):
9 abreast on the B787 will not be as comfortable as 9-abreast on the A350

Only half an inch per seat, as Airbus itself mentionned it, and more vertical walls !, ridiculous !!!
And what about freight capacity of both planes ?

Quoting PM (Reply 21):
Will Boeing have launched Y3? Hmmm - not before well into the decade and probably not soon enough to prevent both the A350 and A380 amass some healthy business.

Not necessarily. I tend to think that's one of the reasons why Boeing launched such an "uncompetitive" version of the B747 (as widely demonstrated by many here). I suppose that a 747-8 based on the -500X/600X study with the latest bleedless engines may probably have performed much bettter but such a program would have only lived 5 to 10 years before a 3rd generation airplane like Y3 would be mature enough to be proposed to customers.

Regards
 
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 15):
Do elaborate.  Smile

It's a larger plane with higher MTOWs with a more...traditional...construction method. Getting it lighter would be a neat trick.

This is the latest data I have for the 787:

B787-8: 239,200lbs
B787-9: 254,300lbs

I have conflicting data for the A350XWB. One source says the A350 is indeed lighter then then 787 by a few thousand pounds while another says it is heavier by about 8,000lbs A358 to 787-8 and 15,000lbs A359 to 787-9. I am inclined to believe the latter, both on their track record and if the A350 truly was lighter then the 787, it should already be winning RFPs by the score because it would be the A333 to the 787's 772A and there should be no contest.
 
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
This is the latest data I have for the 787:

B787-8: 239,200lbs
B787-9: 254,300lbs

I presume you meant kgs not lbs otherwise it would not make any sense. The latest weights I saw for XWB were:
A350-800XWB: 245t
A350-900XWB: 265t
A350-1000XWB: 295t

which would indicate that A358 has lower MTOW than B789 by 9 tons.

[Edited 2007-11-02 05:42:27]
 
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Soon , 2 engines for the A350XWB ?

Won't all A350s have two engines?  Confused  Silly  Cool
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:18 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 26):
I presume you meant kgs not lbs otherwise it would not make any sense.

It is in pounds and why wouldn't it make sense? I am talking about MEW - Manufacturing Empty Weight. Your data is MTOW - Maximum Take-Off Weight.

Of course there will be a large discrepancy between them since my weight is when the plane is "empty" and your weight is when the plane is "full".  Smile
 
Danny
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
It's a larger plane with higher MTOWs with a more...traditional...construction method. Getting it lighter would be a neat trick.

This is the latest data I have for the 787:

B787-8: 239,200lbs
B787-9: 254,300lbs



Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):
Quoting Danny (Reply 26):
I presume you meant kgs not lbs otherwise it would not make any sense.

It is in pounds and why wouldn't it make sense? I am talking about MEW - Manufacturing Empty Weight. Your data is MTOW - Maximum Take-Off Weight.

You referred to MTOW in your original post not MEW.

Anyway according to boeing.com MTOW for B789 is 245t which is exactly the same as for A358XWB. Not sure were your claims of XWB being heavier come from.
 
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:31 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 29):
You referred to MTOW in your original post not MEW.

With respect, and emphasis mine:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
They don't necessarily have to, since the A350 will have an "MEW penalty" compared to the lighter 787s which the newer engines will help to address.

Scipio was the one who was referring to MTOW in Reply 19.

I was responding to WingedMigrator's request from Reply 15.

No worries, however. These discussions can flow mighty fast and I trip-myself up on occasion when responding, as well.

[Edited 2007-11-02 08:33:17]
 
astuteman
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:09 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
One source says the A350 is indeed lighter then then 787 by a few thousand pounds while another says it is heavier by about 8,000lbs A358 to 787-8 and 15,000lbs A359 to 787-9. I am inclined to believe the latter,



Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
B787-8: 239,200lbs
B787-9: 254,300lbs

I'm inclined to agree with you, Stitch.
The A350 has a much bigger wing for a start, so is almost certainly blessed with the same sort of OEW penalty as the A380. Hopefully it's also blessed with the same sort of aerodynamic advantages, too..  Smile

The numbers you have provided are interesting, though. Bearing in mind the A358 is a direct 245t MTOW competitor to the 787-9, it should be no surprise whatsoever that it's heavier than the 787-8.
If it's ONLY 8 000lb heavier than the 787-8, that would give it an empty weight LESS than the directly comparable 787-9, given your numbers...

Interesting.....

Regards
 
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 31):
Bearing in mind the A358 is a direct 245t MTOW competitor to the 787-9, it should be no surprise whatsoever that it's heavier than the 787-8. If it's ONLY 8 000lb heavier than the 787-8, that would give it an empty weight LESS than the directly comparable 787-9, given your numbers...

Correct. By about 7,000lbs.
 
Scipio
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
Correct. By about 7,000lbs

But, Stitch, please explain. You imply that the A350-800 will be 7,000 lbs lighter than the 787-9, while having a larger wing and more efficient engines. Still, despite this triple advantage, it would offer a payload-range performance that is similar to that of the 787-9. Somehow this doesn't seem to add up.

Scipio.
 
astuteman
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
Correct. By about 7,000lbs.

FWIW, with a bigger wing, and bigger engines, I don't see how that's possible....

I can only imagine the A358 being a tad heavier than the 789.

As Scipio suggests, if it WAS 7 000lb lighter, with a greater span, and with bigger engines with a better SFC, it would be one awesome plane (unless you're Richard Aboulaifa, of course,,,  Wink )

Regards
 
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting Scipio (Reply 33):
But, Stitch, please explain. You imply that the A350-800 will be 7,000 lbs lighter than the 787-9, while having a larger wing and more efficient engines. Still, despite this triple advantage, it would offer a payload-range performance that is similar to that of the 787-9. Somehow this doesn't seem to add up.

I only know what folks are kind enough to tell me (and then with permission to share). And that data set if about a year old now, so it is quite possible that as Airbus continues to refine the plane, the MEWs are rising. But also note that the thrust requirements have been dropping, as well, so Airbus seems to be finding a balance.

And if you think that is impressive, the other data set I have been offered says that the A350-800 has an MEW almost 20,000lbs (US) lighter then the 787-9.

In chats with airline fleet ops/planning folks, one of the major selling points for the 787 is not it's performance and efficiency, but it's promise of significantly lower maintenance which means more hours in the air generating revenue. While we chuckle at airlines like NW who flew DC-10s and DC-9s for three and even four decades, I would not be surprised if there are a number of 787 customers who hope/plan to do that with their birds. They might very well want the 787 because over the lifetime of the plane, the cost per hour to operate it is remarkably lower then anything else.

If I was Airbus, I'd be pushing this angle for the A350, as well.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:35 pm

Let's put it this way -the A350 will ultimately outsell the 787 in 10 years from now...
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Stitch
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:52 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 36):
Let's put it this way - the A350 will ultimately outsell the 787 in 10 years from now...

Not sure about that. Boeing is placing a great deal of 77Ls and 77Ws into fleets over the next five to ten years, which is going to dilute the early pool of A350 orders. EK and QR are on huge expansion programs, which is why they want scores. And US and SU are in full-on fleet replacement mode, explaining their large orders. Most other carriers are on a more...tempered...fleet renewal program in the 300+ seat arena and many of them are taking 77Ws at this time and over the next few years.

The A350 will likely end the year around 300-350 orders (assuming EK only buys 50 and all the outstanding LoIs are signed by December 31). Certainly nothing to sneeze about, but I don't expect sales to be at 700 by the end of next year. But it is a solid foundation and it will certainly be a factor in driving future orders.

And once the 787 actually takes to the skies and starts to return data, if that data is positive, it will drive future orders, as well. And once the 787HGW program is formally launched, that will secure orders, too.

Not to mention the market for 300-400 seaters is likely smaller then the market for 200-300 seaters. Boeing has the advantage of being five years earlier to market, which means a great deal of potential A350-800 customers will already be flying 787-8s and 787-9s by the time that model enters service. This leaves the meat of the battle between the 787-10/787-11 and A350-900/A350-1000. I tend to believe the A350-1000 will have the advantage over the 787-11 (just as the 77W does over the A346), but the 787-10 and A350-900 should be quite well-matched.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:42 pm

People would love to see that plane -the 787 that is taking off - but it's still very uncertain as of when that's gonna happen.
While the A350 is still years from launch,nobody will ever have any doubts about it's performance .Since for many it's like an "A330 -derivate " with high-tech body,things seem pretty decided.
The 787 has lost a lot of credibility those last weks and needs a push -soon that is !
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JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:16 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 38):

As far as I know, the performance aspects of the 787 have never been questioned. I'm not certain where you get your information from. The 350, in its current incarnation, has nothing in common with the 330, except the basic twin engine, tube with wings format.

It seems odd that since the design for the 350 hasn't been frozen yet, and won't be for another year, you claim things are "pretty decided". As it stands, Airbus is selling a package of performance guarantees, which is fine because that's how business is done. The 787 is doing the same thing. No matter how good things look on simulation, the customer doesn't pay until the plane has been proven in the air and is delivered.

The 350 and the 787 will end up competing with each other in every segment. It will be a larger, plastic version of the 320/737 battle.

Something that's important to remember is that Boeing will start delivering planes more than 5 years before Airbus will. That means a lot more available cash on hand for other projects. All those hundreds of 787's on order now, will be bought and paid for before the first 350 flies.

That's a pretty good payday.
What the...?
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26690
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 38):
People would love to see...the 787 that is taking off - but it's still very uncertain as of when that's gonna happen. While the A350 is still years from launch,nobody will ever have any doubts about it's performance. Since for many it's like an "A330 -derivate" with high-tech body,things seem pretty decided. The 787 has lost a lot of credibility those last weeks and needs a push - soon that is!

You, sir, are assuming facts not in evidence. The true performance of the A350 will not be known until, at the earliest, her test and certification program is completed some five years from now. And even then, it should get better over time once it enters service.

So to say that the A350's performance is "without doubt" while the 787's is "in doubt" is incorrect and only encourages people to attack the A350 with facts also not in evidence in retaliation, which then leads to the thread being dragged off course and possibly closed.

Right now the specifications for the A350 look good and seem to be improving. She's secured the interest of many carriers for some 300 frames over three years and has five more years of sales before EIS, all of which should be good ones based on those specifications.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:21 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 40):
So to say that the A350's performance is "without doubt" while the 787's is "in doubt" is incorrect and only encourages people to attack the A350 with facts also not in evidence in retaliation, which then leads to the thread being dragged off course and possibly closed.

Thank you Stitch. I think you touch on the bigger problem with some of these statements - they end up being flamebait rather than productive. I'd quote Rodney King, but why wish for the impossible.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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PM
Posts: 5161
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:05 pm

http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40568

Rolls-Royce today announced that International Lease Finance Corporation (ILFC) has confirmed an order for the Trent XWB engine to power a fleet of 20 firm Airbus A350 XWB aircraft, due for delivery starting April 2014.

Hmmm. I wonder why ILFC would throw the whole order to RR if GE were about to get on board imminently.
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26690
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 42):
Hmmm. I wonder why ILFC would throw the whole order to RR if GE were about to get on board imminently.

The customers ILFC has lined up use RR power?

Or they are current A350 RR customers and want to top-off their fleets without committing to new purchases?

When GECAS orders XWBs for their entire A350 fleet, that is when I worry about GE engines getting on-board. Big grin
 
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scbriml
Posts: 18248
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:25 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 21):
Thus Aer Lingus and Aeroflot, to mention two, may well be keeping their options open in the hope (expectation?) that GE will be available long before they need to make a decision.

Aer Lingus have yet to place a firm order for the A350, so I'm not surprised that their engine choice is currently unknown.

Quoting PM (Reply 42):
Hmmm. I wonder why ILFC would throw the whole order to RR if GE were about to get on board imminently.

ILFC would, of course, always have the option of selecting GE (assuming they have an offering) on their next A350 order. wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
trex8
Posts: 5378
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: GE Near To Jump On The A350XWB

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 42):
Hmmm. I wonder why ILFC would throw the whole order to RR if GE were about to get on board imminently.

but how imminent is imminent? there will be more ILFC XWB orders and if GE is on board then they will get their share.

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