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sebring
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AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:59 pm

We've already had lots of rumors about LH launching FRA-YYC and DUS-YYZ seasonal service, but as part of the announcement today it is also revealed that AC will be launching YOW-FRA daily year-round service next June.


Air Canada expands Canada-Germany services with Lufthansa; introduces Ottawa-Frankfurt non-stop service year-round.

At a press conference held today in Ottawa, Ben Smith, Executive Vice President – Commercial, and Duncan Dee, Executive Vice President – Customer Experience & Chief Administrative Officer, announced a major expansion of service between Canada and Germany in cooperation with our Star Alliance partner, Lufthansa, that features new non-stop flights between Ottawa-Frankfurt and Toronto-Dusseldorf, as well as the addition of a second daily non-stop flight between Calgary-Frankfurt. By summer 2008, together with Lufthansa, we will operate up to 11 flights per day in each direction between five cities in Canada and three cities in Germany, representing an increase of 23 per cent in seat capacity from the previous year.

“The introduction of new non-stop services between Canada and Germany in cooperation with our Star Alliance partner Lufthansa will provide significant benefits for international air travellers and freight forwarders in our National Capital Region, Calgary, Montreal and our main Toronto hub,” said Ben Smith. “The convenience of more non-stop flights, streamlined connections using in-transit facilities at Frankfurt to points throughout the globe, and comprehensive reciprocal frequent flyer rewards are key benefits that our customers enjoy since the foundation of Star Alliance ten years ago.”

• Ottawa-Frankfurt: Daily non-stop service year-round, using Boeing 767-300 aircraft, effective June 1, 2008.
• Toronto-Dusseldorf: Seasonal non-stop service on a codeshare basis with Lufthansa, effective May 1, 2008.
• Toronto-Frankfurt: Daily Boeing 777-30ER service in addition to our second daily refurbished Boeing 767-300ER service, effective March 1, 2008.
• Calgary-Frankfurt: Second daily non-stop flight on a codeshare basis with Lufthansa to complement our year-round daily non-stop service, effective April 14, 2008.
• Montreal-Frankfurt: Effective April 1, 2008, 349-seat Boeing 777-300ER aircraft will replace the Airbus 274-seat A330-300 aircraft currently operated on the Montreal-Frankfurt route.

With these new and expanded services between Canada and Germany, together with Lufthansa we will offer a total of up to 154 non-stop flights per week between Canada and Germany on the following eight routes: Vancouver-Frankfurt, Calgary-Frankfurt, Toronto-Frankfurt, Toronto-Munich, Toronto-Dusseldorf, Ottawa-Frankfurt, Montreal-Frankfurt and Montreal-Munich.

Here's the press release from AC:

AC also putting a 777-300ER next summer on YUL-FRA, but not YYC-FRA. So it seems as if the increase in seats created by LH's new YYC-FRA will be mitigated by AC leaving a 767-300ER on the route full time rather than adding a second flight of its own or using a larger aircraft.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/November2007/05/c4166.html

Here is LH's press release

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/November2007/05/c4194.html

[Edited 2007-11-05 10:11:43]

[Edited 2007-11-05 10:13:11]
 
flyb
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:10 pm

Great news for both YYC and YOW!
 
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yowza
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:42 pm

Good stuff. It's nice to know folks in YOW will be able to sidestep AC888 and give LHR a miss altogether to get on their way to wherever they are going. I will not be one of those since I'm down in Toronto these days but good none the less.

YOWza
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:22 pm

I believe the general public is starting to get an "avoid LHR" if possible mindset. If you can connect in FRA, BRU or another airport at a reasonable cost why not. This increased service will only strengthen these two airlines services. Even last night on the "Race" television program the group on the first flight BA from LAX to LHR to Shannon were beat by the later flight on Aerlingus from LAX to DUB to Shannon due to ground congestion at LHR. I have friends who lived in Switzerland and have moved to London. They avoided LHR in the past and now go way out of their way to fly out of other airports in Britain than face LHR. I think that is a bit extreme but with a couple of very active kids they find it far too stressful and delay prone. I wonder how much longer it will be until BA switches one of their flights or adds an additional flight from YYZ to another airport other than LHR.
 
Viscount724
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:29 pm

Quoting Sebring (Thread starter):
We've already had lots of rumors about LH launching FRA-YYC and DUS-YYZ seasonal service

DUS-YYZ wasn't a rumor. LH announced that almost 3 months ago as part of their introduction of several new longhaul routes from DUS.
 
ac888yow
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:31 pm

Very amazing news for us here in YOW! Non-stop to FRA, one-stop Star Alliance connectivity to the world.
 
jamincan
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:57 pm

So I think it sounds like AC will be freeing up two A333s from YUL and YYC. (Please tell me if I'm wrong.) Where do you suppose they will be reallocated? It would be great if they upgraded the YOW-LHR flight too, but I'm a little skeptical of that prospect.
 
sebring
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:01 pm

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 6):
So I think it sounds like AC will be freeing up two A333s from YUL and YYC. (Please tell me if I'm wrong.) Where do you suppose they will be reallocated? It would be great if they upgraded the YOW-LHR flight too, but I'm a little skeptical of that prospect.

AC will have one 330 always in the shop next summer getting its cabin makeover.
 
JoePatroni
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:39 pm

Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 5):
Very amazing news for us here in YOW! Non-stop to FRA, one-stop Star Alliance connectivity to the world.

Don't you already have that with your flight to YYZ? Just Sayin'!

But yes, Great news for YOW and AC.
Oh Stewardess, I speak Jive.
 
ACDC8
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting JoePatroni (Reply 8):
Don't you already have that with your flight to YYZ? Just Sayin'!

You'd still have to cnx in FRA if you wanted to get to many parts in Europe, Middle East, India, or Africa. However, with going through FRA, you'd literally would have the world only one stop away.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
ac888yow
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting JoePatroni (Reply 8):
Don't you already have that with your flight to YYZ? Just Sayin'!

heh. Good point but nope. An example is being unable to fly Star Alliance YOW-ATH with a single stop at YYZ.
 
stylo777
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:51 pm

great news for AC, LH, YOW and FRA.
I was wondering how FRA will handle this additional longhaul flights with the current airport complex, runway- and slot-system?!?!  confused 
 
fraT
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:49 pm

It looks as if the YOW flight will get the slots of the 2nd YUL flight here in FRA which was operated during the summers. To compensate that the morning flight to YUL will be upgraded to a 777. Smart move!
 
aircanada014
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:46 pm

Congratulations to YOW for the new route to FRA.. So you all got your wish now  Smile
 
aircanada014
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:47 pm

I wonder if there's more demand in BC with AC adding a new flight to FRA from YVR? so that would be double daily to FRA from YVR courtesy of AC and LH?
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:47 am

LH is basing 3 343's at DUS next summer which enables the DUS-YYZ route, and 2 new routes to the US.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
LH is basing 3 343's at DUS next summer which enables the DUS-YYZ route, and 2 new routes to the US.

And DUS-MIA, which will operate instead of DUS-YYZ between 26OCT08 and 29MAR09.
a.
 
LH423
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:53 am

Excellent news for YOW! Be very nice to see two 767s at the terminal everyday.

LH423
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mel
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:49 am

Some of the reduced A330-300 transatlantic flying will be re-allocated to transpacific, starting March 20, 2008 when Air Canada starts using the A330-300 for Vancouver-Tokyo, all summer long.
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JoFMO
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:04 am

So now the last big city missing from Canada is Edmonton. I hope it does not take to long for AC or LH to start FRA-Edmonton.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 19):
So now the last big city missing from Canada is Edmonton. I hope it does not take to long for AC or LH to start FRA-Edmonton.

Considering how long it took them to launch YEG-LHR, I wouldn't hold my breathe for it soon.
a.
 
ACDC8
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 14):
I wonder if there's more demand in BC with AC adding a new flight to FRA from YVR? so that would be double daily to FRA from YVR courtesy of AC and LH?

Is AC adding a YVR - FRA? I haven't heard anything on that.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting FraT (Reply 12):
It looks as if the YOW flight will get the slots of the 2nd YUL flight here in FRA which was operated during the summers. To compensate that the morning flight to YUL will be upgraded to a 777. Smart move!

also, MUC-YUL will be operated by A340-600s iso of -300s this year, further mitigating the loss of capacity by reducing frequency on FRA-YUL.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
matt
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:12 pm

Does anyone think we might one day see YHZ-FRA as we did a few years ago (seasonal, 3 x week)? Or am I dreaming?
Next flights: YQM-YUL-YVR-YUL-YQM / YQM-YYZ-HKG-DXB-BCN-YUL-YQM
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Considering how long it took them to launch YEG-LHR, I wouldn't hold my breathe for it soon.

 checkmark 

Looks like YEG is missing out big time! Who knew YOW would get so many new flights in such a small time frame !

Las Vegas
Moncton
St. John's
Fredericton
Cancun
Montego Bay
and now Frankfurt !!

Awesome stuff
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
yegger
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 24):
Looks like YEG is missing out big time!

I couldn't have wrote it better myself. To put this bluntly, this announcement is a HUGE disappointment for YEG. Considering the amount of effort that has been put into getting this route by the Edmonton Airport Authority, I actually find this announcement outright offensive.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 19):
So now the last big city missing from Canada is Edmonton. I hope it does not take to long for AC or LH to start FRA-Edmonton.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Considering how long it took them to launch YEG-LHR, I wouldn't hold my breathe for it soon.

I'm not holding my breath on it. In fact, when the rumors started last year about LHR being added, I was hoping that it would be FRA that would be added (if we had to choose one over the other - both would obviously be best), due to the multitude of Star Alliance connections available there vs. the large O&D at LHR. I wonder if LHR was added simply because of demand, or as a knee jerk reaction to keep BA out?

I am digressing. When the rumors about the new LH flight to/from YYC started, I was hoping and speculating that AC would shift their current flights to/from FRA (844/845) to YEG and down gauge to a B767 if necessary. I got half of it right! It annoys me that up to half of the cargo load for this flight is trucked to YYC every day, and that >100 pax per day are traveling to/from the Edmonton area either on connections, or, even worse, driving. That doesn't count those who could potentially connect in YEG from other locales, or those who choose to make connections in other cities to go to FRA or beyond.

Once again, YEG has lost out for who knows what reason. I think it is time once again for another "Fly Edmonton First" media campaign to be initiated by ERAA, and fully supported politically by the the city. In fact, this campaign should go as far as urging travelers to vote with their feet and pocket books by avoiding the new and existing LH and AC flights through YYC if at all possible.
 
flyb
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:16 pm

Quoting Yegger (Reply 25):
Once again, YEG has lost out for who knows what reason. I think it is time once again for another "Fly Edmonton First" media campaign to be initiated by ERAA, and fully supported politically by the the city. In fact, this campaign should go as far as urging travelers to vote with their feet and pocket books by avoiding the new and existing LH and AC flights through YYC if at all possible.

Uknown reason? You're joking right?! Edmonton didn't get this route because of the YYC being a hub. YEG will get a route to Europe eventually, but might need to have Lot or KLM approach them ( I guess it has started with one of the mentioned).
 
jamincan
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:03 pm

Quoting Yegger (Reply 25):
Once again, YEG has lost out for who knows what reason. I think it is time once again for another "Fly Edmonton First" media campaign to be initiated by ERAA, and fully supported politically by the the city. In fact, this campaign should go as far as urging travelers to vote with their feet and pocket books by avoiding the new and existing LH and AC flights through YYC if at all possible.

I'd say that Edmonton and Ottawa are really in the same boat with respect to AC. Both of them have to fight vigorously to attract flights due to their proximity to major AC hubs. If YOW finally got a FRA flight after years and years of waiting and petitioning AC and LH to serve it, I'm sure YEG will get its flight eventually too.
 
threepoint
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:16 pm

Quoting LH423 (Reply 17):
Excellent news for YOW! Be very nice to see two 767s at the terminal everyday.

But don't you already, with a shuttle to YYZ being operated by a 763?

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 19):
So now the last big city missing from Canada is Edmonton. I hope it does not take to long for AC or LH to start FRA-Edmonton.

And then WolsingerJet will at last be vindicated. But not in time to still owe FlyYUL a beer.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 21):
Is AC adding a YVR - FRA? I haven't heard anything on that.

No, AC is not adding YVR-FRA.

Quoting Yegger (Reply 25):
To put this bluntly, this announcement is a HUGE disappointment for YEG. Considering the amount of effort that has been put into getting this route by the Edmonton Airport Authority, I actually find this announcement outright offensive.

Perhaps you should harden up. AC and LH are not in the business to make friends and offend others. If there is a market, a profitable business case, existing bilateral agreements and spare airplanes, then the airlines will be happy to add whatever service passengers demand. Clearly, although there are some that would like a non-stop from YEG, it's not a compelling enough reason to convince these airlines. Consider too, that AC and LH may have global destination priorities that rank higher than Edmonton.

Quoting Yegger (Reply 25):
>100 pax per day are traveling to/from the Edmonton area

Which is not nearly enough to warrant even an additional 767. I think part of the reason is that AC doesn't have an abundance of aircraft to spare, even if they did want to add the service.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
sebring
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:17 pm

One reason AC put a flight into YOW is that it doesn't want to put a third Frankfurt flight into Toronto. YOW will get a fair number of East-West connecting passengers continuing on to FRA, and it costs less to operate the YOW-FRA flight than a third YYZ-FRA flight. What they really did was kill the second YUL-FRA flight by consolidating traffic on a single 777-300ER - a net reduction of seats, but still plenty to handle local demand and some connecting trafffic - while moving a 767-300 and FRA slot to a new market where it will also be offered as a connecting service.

In contrast, YYC is getting double daily service to FRA with the addition of LH metal. LH wanted YYC above all, so AC acquiesced. They weren't going to put two new daily flights into Alberta at the same time. However, YEG-FRA is certainly on the drawing board.
 
yegger
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:24 pm

Quoting Flyb (Reply 26):
Uknown reason? You're joking right?!

I must admit there was a bit of sarcasm in my statement! I once told someone that if a city is not a major hub itself, that it is quite okay to be a "spoke" from everyone else's hub.

Quoting Flyb (Reply 26):
Edmonton didn't get this route because of the YYC being a hub.

This didn't seem to apply in the case of YOW - it has significantly smaller numbers than YEG and is closer to YUL than YEG is to YYC, and YUL is a much bigger hub than YYC.

The importance of the FRA route lies in the fact that it is the premiere hub for LH - one of the key members of Star Alliance. With so many Canadians being members of Aeroplan, the tendency will always be to use Star Alliance connections. For those traveling from YEG to Europe, Africa and the Middle East, the most natural connection is therefore through FRA on AC/LH. LHR is great for U.K. O&D traffic, which there is plenty of due to historical and cultural connections between Canada and the U.K., but is not nearly as good as FRA for onward connections. The lack of a direct FRA flight from YEG results in most of that traffic being funneled through YYC, thereby falsely boosting YYC's numbers (especially when that traffic drives to YYC vs. taking a connecting flight), let alone adding ~3 hours to a journey.

Quoting Flyb (Reply 26):
YEG will get a route to Europe eventually, but might need to have Lot or KLM approach them ( I guess it has started with one of the mentioned)

I thought about this as well. Isn't there something in the current bilateral agreement that is preventing KLM from adding service? I haven't researched it any further.
 
yegger
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:36 pm

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 28):
Quoting Yegger (Reply 25):
>100 pax per day are traveling to/from the Edmonton area

Which is not nearly enough to warrant even an additional 767. I think part of the reason is that AC doesn't have an abundance of aircraft to spare, even if they did want to add the service.

I agree with you that ~100 pax is not nearly enough to warrant a 767. The point I was trying to make is that if you take those numbers, plus potential connections, plus all of the passengers that connect elsewhere and/or on other airlines, plus the $ from cargo, then you have the potential to make the non-stop viable - just like in any hub operation.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 28):
Perhaps you should harden up

I realize I may be "jaded," but perhaps I will "harden up" as well!!  Smile
 
jamincan
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:39 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 29):
One reason AC put a flight into YOW is that it doesn't want to put a third Frankfurt flight into Toronto. YOW will get a fair number of East-West connecting passengers continuing on to FRA, and it costs less to operate the YOW-FRA flight than a third YYZ-FRA flight. What they really did was kill the second YUL-FRA flight by consolidating traffic on a single 777-300ER - a net reduction of seats, but still plenty to handle local demand and some connecting trafffic - while moving a 767-300 and FRA slot to a new market where it will also be offered as a connecting service.

Out of curiousity, why did they not choose to increase service in YUL instead? I understand the idea of lowering costs by shifting some connections out of YYZ, but YOW doesn't seem like the obvious alternative. How much connecting traffic is AC getting through YOW?
 
sebring
Topic Author
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:41 pm

Quoting Yegger (Reply 30):

This didn't seem to apply in the case of YOW - it has significantly smaller numbers than YEG and is closer to YUL than YEG is to YYC, and YUL is a much bigger hub than YYC

As I noted, AC basically moved a YUL-FRA flight to YOW and will continue to use it as an alternate to Toronto for connections from the West to FRA. Having two YUL-FRA flights meant only one was suitable for connections from some cities west of YYZ. Now, both the YOW and YUL flights will be suitable for connections, and YUL will actually have reduced capacity to fill, although the combined capacity of the YUL and YOW flights will increase by less than the capacity of one 767-300. Beyond that, AC doesn't have the fleet at this point to do too much new. It will be short a 330 for all of next summer and fall because of cabin makeover work. As a consequence, AC will downsize its own YYC-FRA service to 767-300 year round, a net reduction of capacity on its own metal, but will be able to buy into LH's flight on a codeshare basis. The net YYC-FRA capacity increase with the LH flight is 57%, not 100% as you might expect. So while YOW gains a flight, and YYC gets a second one, what this really is from AC's point of view is a shuffling of assets, not a net increase of seats. AC will have more latitude to add capacity - including the launch of new routes - when it completes its extreme makeover program and has all 767s and all 330s flying, and when it has all 17 of its new 777 fleet. That will happen by late fall of 2008. Right now, for example, it has three 767-300s in the shop getting their cabin makeover, and there will be at least two unavailable until all 767s are done.
 
flyb
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:43 pm

While I agree with you to a degree, YOW does make more sense to me as well currently than adding the YEG (and yes I am from Edmonton....not Ottawa).

I do believe that YEG will be added to FRA or another European hub soon, but if it is via AC/LH it will be in a year or two due to LH and AC having such new routes in YEG and YYC.

I look forward to seeing this new airport built and ready in 2010 to ensure we have room for these flights and incoming northern destinations.
 
ac888yow
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:14 pm

Quoting LH423 (Reply 17):
Excellent news for YOW! Be very nice to see two 767s at the terminal everyday.

You might see a lot more than that depending on the day.

There will be two AC 763 (LHR, FRA) every day, and on certain days you might have AC 762/3 (Rapidair) Transat A310, Thomas Cook 757 (assuming they return next year), Zoom 763 at the terminal all at the same time (roughly).
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 32):
Out of curiousity, why did they not choose to increase service in YUL instead? I understand the idea of lowering costs by shifting some connections out of YYZ, but YOW doesn't seem like the obvious alternative. How much connecting traffic is AC getting through YOW?

There is a small level of connection traffic ex YOW -- the real benefit is for YOW originating customers connecting on the other side of the Atlantic and bypassing the horror show known as London-Heathrow. There is also sufficient demand to support a second AC TATL flight. YUL has the benefit of the 777 with almost as much capcity as 2-767-300's. It's a win-win situation.
Above and Beyond
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:16 pm

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 36):
It's a win-win situation.

 checkmark 

For everyone except YEG...  ashamed 

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
flyb
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:05 pm

YEG's turn will come eventually. Overall it is a win win.
 
ACDC8
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RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:48 pm

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 28):
No, AC is not adding YVR-FRA.

I didn't think so, I must have read/understood reply14 wrong.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
flyyul
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:00 pm

Quoting Flyb (Reply 38):
YEG's turn will come eventually. Overall it is a win win

In an ideal world, YEG-FRA makes sense. However, finding a new pair of slots at FRA is a very very difficult process. If indeed the truth is the YOW-FRA is a YUL-FRA #2, YEG will have to likely wait until the new runway is built at FRA.

In the meantime, YEG-LHR has just had a full year under it's belt, and its best to have that service mature for at a coupl e of years, before FRA gets eventually added.
 
LH423
Posts: 5924
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Yegger (Reply 25):
Considering the amount of effort that has been put into getting this route by the Edmonton Airport Authority, I actually find this announcement outright offensive.

Ottawa has been lobbying for this flight for a long time as well. Unfortunately, AC (or LH) can't be all things to everyone. Of course Edmonton's turn will come. It's a very important, growing city in Canada. However, Ottawa is still a bigger city with important government and private sectors (particularly the hi-tech industry) and, in terms of scheduled, trans-Atlantic service, has been underserved. The LHR flight goes out full year-round more or less.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 28):
But don't you already, with a shuttle to YYZ being operated by a 763?



Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 35):
There will be two AC 763 (LHR, FRA) every day, and on certain days you might have AC 762/3 (Rapidair) Transat A310, Thomas Cook 757 (assuming they return next year), Zoom 763 at the terminal all at the same time (roughly).

Yes, there are occasionally 767s to YYZ but that's not necessarily daily, at least it hasn't been currently. Looking ahead to next Summer there are no 767s scheduled to YYZ. However, that's very likely to change and, with the Rapidair routes, aircraft are subject to change a moment's notice. I should have specified that we'll be guaranteed two AC 767s a day. Though I have seen up to 4 767s arrive at YOW in about an hour (3 AC and 1 Z4). And when you factor in the other services (TS and Z4), there will be a nice little line-up at YOW next Summer.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:05 pm

Wow....it feels as if the Air Canada execs decided to conspire against the fastet growing airport in the country!!!!

I keep getting disappointed with AC yet I havwe no choice but to continue to fly them. This is stupid....the second Alberta-FRA belongs to YEG. I wish the Edmonton Airports Authority explains to its customers why it can never pull something and is always playing catch-up top YYC..

AC.. Shame on you!!!!
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:11 pm

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 42):
Wow....it feels as if the Air Canada execs decided to conspire against the fastet growing airport in the country!!!!

Fastest-growing means little if the market is still much smaller than those in several of the bigger cities in Canada. We could argue that many regional airports are 'faster-growing' than YEG, but obviously are not in line for transatlantic service.

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 42):
AC.. Shame on you!!!!

Indeed AC, shame for sticking to your business plan and concentrating on those markets where you can make the most revenue and assigning your fleet to the higher priorities throughout the country and abroad. Damn it, there are now a few people outside the prairies who actually know where Edmonton is...surely that warrants a couple of your new 777s?!?
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26606
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 43):
Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 42):
AC.. Shame on you!!!!

Indeed AC, shame for sticking to your business plan and concentrating on those markets where you can make the most revenue and assigning your fleet to the higher priorities throughout the country and abroad. Damn it, there are now a few people outside the prairies who actually know where Edmonton is...surely that warrants a couple of your new 777s?!?

Amen. It amazes me how YEG-boosters never stop complaining. YEG finally got a Heathrow flight, and now Frankfurt should be around the corner? Let Heathrow develop before anything else.
a.
 
sebring
Topic Author
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:21 pm

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 42):
Wow....it feels as if the Air Canada execs decided to conspire against the fastet growing airport in the country!!!!

I keep getting disappointed with AC yet I havwe no choice but to continue to fly them. This is stupid....the second Alberta-FRA belongs to YEG. I wish the Edmonton Airports Authority explains to its customers why it can never pull something and is always playing catch-up top YYC..

AC.. Shame on you!!!!

This is ridiculous. Maybe you missed the press release but this second Alberta-FRA flight is Lufthansa's. And it was Lufthansa's call. They have had a sales operation in Calgary without a flight of their own. More Germans go to southern Alberta (Banff, Yoho, Lake Louise, Kaninaskis, etc. and even Jasper is as close to YYC or YEG. For all I know AC would have welcomed them in YEG, but this is what was decided. I presume AC would have been even happier if LH had stayed out of Alberta and let AC fly a 777 from YYC. But partnership is a give and take thing.

I can say without equivocation that if YEG-FRA was the best money-making opportunity AC has, that it would have been launched already.

Talking about dark conspiracies just makes you sound like Danny Williams. It's not very enlightened.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

AC//Au Revoir A340-500's?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 42):
AC.. Shame on you!!!!

AC is not in the business of designating routes based on sentimentality. Trust me this company counts and analyzes every nickel and dime, and according to their numbers, YOW-FRA presents the greatest opportunity for revenue return.

YEG-FRA will happen if the market shows sustained growth, meets revenue analysis targests, and the appropriate aircraft becomes available.

Conspiracy?? Give me a break!

 cry   crying   cry 

[Edited 2007-11-06 15:26:22]
Above and Beyond
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 44):
Let Heathrow develop before anything else.

I agree with your sentiment, but wonder why we need to wait for one market to develop or mature prior to establishing a new one. If LHR is so popular (and all indications are that it is), and if a lucrative FRA market is aching to be started, then why not introduce it asap? I think we all know that the answers are a combination of: the market is not yet ready for such service to Germany, there is a lack of planes to fill every possible desired destination, AC & LH have Canadian priorities in YOW, YYZ, YUL, YYC and YVR, etc.

As you alluded, Edmonton service to continental Europe will come, but not before it, the airlines and the passengers are ready.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:30 pm

Also as FLYYUL pointed out, there is the obvious problem of slot allocation at FRA. As the hometown airline, LH probably had the edge over AC, and thus the second frequency ex YYC.
Above and Beyond
 
flyb
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:39 am

RE: AC-LH Augment Canada-Germany, Add YOW-FRA

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:00 am

Note that there is usually a few whiners from Edmonton that don't understand the industry. They finger point, you should see the comments about there own airport. Those of use with our heads in the business, not in the clouds know that Air Canada and it's partners will add Edmonton when it is the right time for there company.

People claiming YEG as your home town airport (again I am from Edmonton, and have close ties to YEG) grow up and realize the business world you live in. I am embarassed.

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