Observer
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Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:44 am

Richard Aboulafia had interesting remarks on Mike's Bair's blast last week on the 787 supply chain and production methods

http://www.richardaboulafia.com/shownote.asp?id=256
 
baroque
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting Observer (Thread starter):
Richard Aboulafia had interesting remarks on Mike's Bair's blast last week on the 787 supply chain and production methods

http://www.richardaboulafia.com/shownote.asp?id=256

Difficult to argue with much of that, but then there is nothing all that concrete to rail about. Much as one would like to rail at RA - of course!  Big grin  Big grin
 
WingedMigrator
Posts: 1771
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:27 am

Quote:
Teal Group still believes in the 787’s remarkable technical and commercial appeal, but Bair’s comments could reflect a bigger manufacturing ramp-up problem.

(...)

IF Bair is correct about the best way to build a plane, it would mean that Airbus is nicely positioned. They have a collection of factories within 90 minutes flight time.

Where is the a.net Airbus cavalry? They're supposed to be piling on Aboulafia right now, claiming that he's a paid mouthpiece for Boeing!  scratchchin   duck 
 
Observer
Topic Author
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 2):
Where is the a.net Airbus cavalry? They're supposed to be piling on Aboulafia right now, claiming that he's a paid mouthpiece for Boeing!

He even had something nice to say about Airbus.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 2):
Where is the a.net Airbus cavalry? They're supposed to be piling on Aboulafia right now, claiming that he's a paid mouthpiece for Boeing!

Hmmmm? I didn't think this is much to do with Airbus, one way or t'other. Is it?

I admit I was very confused when I read it. Mostly, I thought he was dumping on Mr. Bair. Or - maybe he's trying to cover his butt just in case Mr. Bair is right?

I wasn't sure what the real message is, except that he seems to be in favor of globalization.

But - I guess I could be wrong about that, too.

 confused 

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
baroque
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 2):
Where is the a.net Airbus cavalry? They're supposed to be piling on Aboulafia right now, claiming that he's a paid mouthpiece for Boeing!

Put off by RA's new attack method of acting like a Roman defensive tortoise sowing confusion in his wake perhaps? We need to see how his attack develops. An infusion of the Logicistes would be nice as Mariner remarks.  Wow!
 
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breiz
Posts: 1445
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:29 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):
I wasn't sure what the real message is, except that he seems to be in favor of globalization.

Well, Aboulafia ridicules the idea of a "supersite" and then explains that Airbus is "nicely positioned" to use the idea. I would not get that as a compliment to Airbus.
He is definitely unhappy about Bair voicing criticism against Boeing, its main suppliers and the 787 project. Bair "Recently appointed Vice President---Supplier Demotivation"!!
Finally, he hopes that all this is only tactics to foul Airbus: "unless Bair's comments were a top secret Boeing black operation to make Airbus think twice about global sourcing."
Can't read any change in Aboulafia's attitude.
 
swallow
Posts: 182
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:50 pm

Scott Hamilton thinks Bair's comments may be preparing the ground for a Dec 5th announcement of more centralization and a further delay.

-Bair did not have a prepared speech
-It is unusual for Boeing execs to vent in public
-Boeing PR were present and confirmed what he said

As for Airbus, they were the first to outsource and can take their time to study what has happened and react accordingly.


http://www.leeham.net/filelib/ScottsColumn110607_2.pdf
The grass is greener where you water it
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:01 pm

Ahhh - Boeing seems to have noted how (at least in Europe) the car industry is working. One large assembly plant, the key suppliers right next to the factory with their own productions to be able to deliver just-in-motion. Once again a good sign that both Airbus and Boeing are about 15 years behind the car industry when it comes to assembly techniques and/or processes.
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Rheinbote
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:02 pm

quote:
Recently appointed Vice President—Supplier Demotivation...open criticism of suppliers at the start of production sends a bad message to just about everybody.

 checkmark 

quote:
But the largest cited 787 issues—fasteners and flight control software integration—have absolutely nothing to do with geography...Boeing has done extremely well with global sourcing so far. The 767 and 777 were hugely successful with exactly this kind of global supply chain. The top-tier 787 suppliers that Bair criticized, by the way, are valued partners or suppliers on these aircraft.

 checkmark 

quote:
The real problem is that this time they trusted, but didn’t verify. In their zeal to maximize profit and spread much of the financial risk, they offloaded most of the airframe responsibilities without the due diligence needed to ensure that their partners could do the design and integration work. Boeing’s unrealistic 787 program schedule didn’t help either. Even if it was the partners that screwed up, it was ultimately Boeing’s mistake—the buck stops at the prime contractor.

 checkmark  Give that man a cookie.

quote:
The supersite idea, by contrast, sounds completely dysfunctional.

 checkmark  Nevertheless, I can imagine that the French guys will have a field day with the idea to create a supersite in Toulouse.  duck 
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 8):
Once again a good sign that both Airbus and Boeing are about 15 years behind the car industry when it comes to assembly techniques and/or processes.

Isn't that what you'd expect? A & B only launch a new program about once very 15 years and it's a whole lot easier to create a production system when you're starting up than change one that's already running.

Tom.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:27 pm

For a moment I thought I was reading Scott Hamilton...  Smile

Seriously, nice to see Richard show some of his "old time Boeing skepticism" again.
 
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keesje
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RE: Aboulafia Comments On Bair

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:52 pm

I think Ritchards critisism towards Boeing will always be in a coaching, build up way. "come you can do (even) better" while to the other side he is sure to inject negative views even if things go right.

Give the man a break. For years he is promoting Boeing did the right smart thing outsourcing much of the 787 work. Now mister 787 himself says it stinks..

What do you expect ? give him time, he'll get over it  Wink
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