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hangarrat
Topic Author
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:24 pm

Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:21 pm

This afternoon the Philadelphia police department flew five detectives and a suspected cop killer from Miami to Philadelphia to face charges.

Cop slaying suspect back in Philadelphia

Quote:
Six days after fleeing to Miami, John Lewis, the North Philadelphia man charged in the shooting death of Police Officer Chuck Cassidy, returned home on a commercial flight this afternoon with his hands and feet in shackles.
A team of five armed Philadelphia homicide detectives escorted Lewis on US Air Flight 742, which arrived at Philadelphia International Airport at about 4:40 p.m.

Has anyone had any experience with the transportation of prisoners on scheduled commercial flights?
Does the crew tell the traveling public about the special guest?
Does the carrier block off a few rows around the prisoner?
Is the prisoner uncuffed for take off and landing?

It's somewhat astounding to me that the Philadelphia PD would use a commercial flight. I thought for sure they'd use a King Air from the state or something like that to bring this guy home.

HR
Spell check is a false dog
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting HangarRat (Thread starter):
Does the crew tell the traveling public about the special guest?

Nope

Quoting HangarRat (Thread starter):
Does the carrier block off a few rows around the prisoner?

Nope

Quoting HangarRat (Thread starter):
Is the prisoner uncuffed for take off and landing?

Cuffed

Quoting HangarRat (Thread starter):
It's somewhat astounding to me that the Philadelphia PD would use a commercial flight.

Why?

Quoting HangarRat (Thread starter):
I thought for sure they'd use a King Air from the state or something like that to bring this guy home.

$$$$


Prisoner transport on commerical flights is very, very common. In fact more common than you'd guess - judging by your post.

Most often the officers/prisoner pre-board - way pre-board. In my experience, to the back of the plane, nearest the facilities. Prisoner stays cuffed. No one else need know the prisoner is aboard.

Nothing unusual, bizarre or extraordinary about it.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:28 pm

I have had prisoners at different times when I have been working the flight. And you can tell that there is a prisoner onboard, Pax even notice that there is one. No there are no seats blocked off just a specific location in the airplane where the prisoner and escorts have to sit. Handcuffs are left on at all times and leg shackles are never worn onboard. It is not uncommon for this to happen.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
jkudall
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:21 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:40 pm

Yeah, this happens all the time. I'd say most of the time, passengers don't notice. They board first and deplane last. The prisoners are seated in window seats (no exit rows) with the escorting officer(s) seated next to them (In other words, they aren't going anywhere). A lot of the time, the cuffs are covered with a coat or something.

Overall, it is a safe and efficent way to transport prisoners if you ask me. I'd rather pay my tax dollars for them to fly commercial over a private aircraft. I don't know of any issues where there has been a risk to passengers on board (No, "Passneger 57" was not based on a true story in case you were wondering).
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4723
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 3):
I don't know of any issues where there has been a risk to passengers on board (No, "Passneger 57" was not based on a true story in case you were wondering).

Don't know how true this is, but I was told during ramp training that some wacko prisoner jumped out of an open rear door of a 737 in PHX and tried to make a break for it on the tarmac. Legend has it someone ran him down with a beltloader.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
hangarrat
Topic Author
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:24 pm

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:43 pm

I can see flying a wanted individual on a scheduled flight in most circumstances, but this guy's face has been all over the news in Phlly and Miami.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone recognized him and got excited.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
I thought for sure they'd use a King Air from the state or something like that to bring this guy home.

$$$$

I realize the cost of chartering an aircraft is up there, but the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation have a B-300 and a B-200 that could be used at minimal cost to the taxpayers, perhaps less than six short-notice tickets.

On the cuffs issue:

Quoting HangarRat (Thread starter):
returned home on a commercial flight this afternoon with his hands and feet in shackles.

Wouldn't that cause problems for an evacuation?
Spell check is a false dog
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:10 pm

Happens all the time, especially with deportees being repatriated.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
User avatar
csturdiv
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:33 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting HangarRat (Thread starter):
It's somewhat astounding to me that the Philadelphia PD would use a commercial flight.

My friends wife works for DHS/ICE and she "escorts" people back to their home countries on commercial flights.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:18 pm

Handcuffs are fine. Shackles are not permitted. As yes they do hinder evacuation.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
c172pic
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 2:40 pm

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:23 pm

On my airline, we r only allowed to transport low/minimum security risk prisoners... that cop killer sounded like a max security, hmmmmmm... mis dos centavos...

Arigato hai,
El DE
 Sad
 
A350
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:40 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:41 pm

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 3):
The prisoners are seated in window seats

Another way to get guaranteed window seat ...

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 8):
Handcuffs are fine. Shackles are not permitted. As yes they do hinder evacuation.

I wondered about that: what happens in case of an emergency? Is the police just hoping to get the prisoner back after de-boarding?

BTW, Germany regularly brings illegal immigrants home by air transport (would be difficult to cross thirds countries for that purpose) and they sometimes need a police escort, too.

Cheers

A350
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting A350 (Reply 10):
Another way to get guaranteed window seat ...

Too bad you can take any pics...haha


Anyway, this is so common it happens at airports as small as Fargo. Flight crew is informed, but pax are not. Most do not even realize.
 
PiedmontINT
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:12 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:49 am

Just watch out that he doesn't duck out of the aircraft under the toilet in the lav a'la Catch Me if You Can..

Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 11):

We have even had the police request to fly prisoners out of MHK (Manhattan, KS) although we couldnt take them due to space restraints
 
TPAnx
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:53 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:10 am

Have never flown with one..as far as I know. But I've seen them at the gates at TPA..usually carrying an envelope or
small box with both hands..with their cuffs covered with a jacket or shirt..
TPAnx
I read the news today..oh boy
 
sw733
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Prisoner transport on commerical flights is very, very common.

 yes  I got to experience this once, on a domestic flight in South Africa (Nelspruit to JNB) on a small J31 or J41, don't remember which...it was interesting. We were told at the gate before hand, but nobody really seemed to care as long as he was taken care of.

Quoting C172pic (Reply 9):
On my airline, we r only allowed to transport low/minimum security risk prisoners... that cop killer sounded like a max security, hmmmmmm... mis dos centavos...

Must not have been your airline then...  Wink
 
blueheronNC
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:19 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 4):
(No, "Passneger 57" was not based on a true story in case you were wondering).

Wesley Snipes to Rain (the terrorist): "a word of advice...always bet on black"

---

Rain to stewardess love interest chick of Snipes: "pour me a drink Marty"
Marty (disgustingly): "what do you want?"
Rain (after licking finger and rubbing it on the pistol): "anything wet"

---
Terrorist cohort in stewardess disguise to Rain: "and how would you like your steak, sir?"
Rain: "bloody"
(stewardess wips out gun from under food cover, shoots security detail dead, uncuffs Rain)

---
Rain to captain: "who's in charge?"
Captain: "I am!"
*Rain shoots captain*
Rain to first officer: "now who's in charge?"
First officer: "you are"
Rain: excellent
---
Airline CEO: "why didn't you tell me about this transport?"
Sly: "the FBI can do whatever without notifying us...they just show up at the last minute"
Airline CEO: "you'd think they'd put an INTERNATIONAL AIRLINE HIJACKER on a bus or a train"
---

awesome movie.

[Edited 2007-11-10 18:37:00]
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 10):
BTW, Germany regularly brings illegal immigrants home by air transport (would be difficult to cross thirds countries for that purpose) and they sometimes need a police escort, too.

I've seen this on a FRA-BUD flight I was on. Police (the same ones who check passports -- green jackets, yellow shirts) escorted them on the bus to the remote stand, where they did board first, and their escorts apparently are just civilian volunteers, according to my German colleague?
7 hours aint long-haul
 
OB1504
Posts: 3986
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 5):
Wouldn't that cause problems for an evacuation?

Consdering what this guy's done, I'd consider that a bonus.
 
eajpecrca
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:03 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:30 pm

I'm sure the detectives were armed going to MIA and coming back. What special procedures--if any-- are in place for them going through TSA security checkpoints with their weapons? Also, I noticed they backed the plane away from the gate to avoid bringing him through the terminal. But then this brings even more attention to the presence of a prisoner. Photo opportunities. Comments?
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:53 pm

Depending on the size of the aircraft, there can be anywhere from one to fifteen low risk prisoners, plus escorts, transported at any one time. As stated, they always get a window seat, the escort always sits next to them, it is always the seat closest to the lavatory, and the prisoner gets nothing to eat or drink unless the escort says its ok. Of course, no alcohol is served to either prisoner or escort.

Quoting Eajpecrca (Reply 18):
What special procedures--if any-- are in place for them going through TSA security checkpoints with their weapons?

Most times the prisoner/escort will bypass security in the terminal and come in through a vehicle gate and then up the jetway stairs. If they do come through the terminal it's no different than any other LEO. Present the ID, fill out the form, around the metal detector and off they go.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
SCUMBAG
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:37 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:15 pm

I was on an EAL flight from Miami to LAX three rows in front of JOHN HOLMES and four plan clothes police officers This was back in the 1980's and he had dyed and cut his hair and looked waisted but we all knew he was "Long John" from the news reports on TV and the papers he was going to L.A. to stand trial for murder. BTW Mr. Holmes was an Army veteran so "Happy Veterans Day Pvt Holmes!"  Cool
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:49 pm

Quoting 3201 (Reply 16):
Quoting A350 (Reply 10):
BTW, Germany regularly brings illegal immigrants home by air transport (would be difficult to cross thirds countries for that purpose) and they sometimes need a police escort, too.

I've seen this on a FRA-BUD flight I was on. Police (the same ones who check passports -- green jackets, yellow shirts) escorted them on the bus to the remote stand, where they did board first, and their escorts apparently are just civilian volunteers, according to my German colleague?

The escorts were most likely plainclothes cops of the federal police (no uniform as not to attract too much attention). The ones who were bringing the deportee to the aircraft wore their regular uniform.
BTW, the shirts are not yellow, but a light khaki.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:09 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 21):
The escorts were most likely plainclothes cops of the federal police (no uniform as not to attract too much attention).

That makes a lot more sense to me than the other story I heard. I guess if it was a.net instead of real-life, I could have turned to him and said "Source?"  Wink
7 hours aint long-haul
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:24 am

A family friend used to be an AA gate agent at JFK. She used to deal with convict transport on an almost weekly basis. There were tons of deportations heading back to the Caribbean, and plenty of people being shipped around the country - cuffed to the seat and accompanied by an enforcement official the whole flight. She just used to laugh about it.
 
Nuori5084
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:25 am

RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:53 am

The Justice Prisoner and Alien Transportation System (JPATS) is a United States federal government agency charged with the transportation of persons in legal custody between prisons, detaining centers, courthouses, and other places where they must be transported. It is also known to many as Con Air.[1] Prisoners transported by JPATS are not limited to those held by the Federal Bureau of Prisons or U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement; its services are also available to military and state law enforcement.

The agency was formed in 1995 when the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the United States Marshals Service merged their air fleets.

Prior to the existence of JPATS, the transport of an inmate over long distances was complicated. The process required an escort by two U.S. Marshals, accompanying the inmate on a regular passenger airplane. This posed numerous problems, including danger to civilians, a backlog of marshals needed to perform such escorts, and a high taxpayer expense.

Today's JPATS fleet has expanded to eight full-sized aircraft. These planes fly a large series of routes that serve nearly every major U.S. city.

On most commercial flights, you'll find fugitives that have gone cross state lines and thus the reason for them being on a scheduled flight back to the state where they fled. It is only necessary to have them on the next flight back verses and nonscheduled flight just for one person for several reasons. Cost and expedition. It can be more complicated.

It is certainly not a privilege for the flying public to know beforehand. Rest assured there are several Marshals on board as well as maybe some FAM's .
Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
 
User avatar
Vasu
Posts: 3166
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RE: Prisoner Transport On Scheduled Flight

Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:05 pm

Always thought it'd be a bit strange to find yourself a few seats away from a handcuffed prisoner... must be an interesting experience!

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