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tomascubero
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:13 pm

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 99):
No no no no. LANDED on 35 skid off at the end of 35 therefore meaning at the threshold if you can call it so of 17.

That is silly of me, I forgot that the ILS system is always at the end of the RWY where the ILS is active, dumb me! It was also obvious because the tunnels are right at the end of RWY35 and because of the WX conditions.

Let's see what happens on the rest of the weekend.

Regards,
Tomas.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 99):
No no no no. LANDED on 35 skid off at the end of 35 therefore meaning at the threshold if you can call it so of 17. Planes are landing and taking off on 35 right now with restriction. No aproaches are being done OVER the plane, because it is in the oposite header.

Well. my argument still works on the other end.

If Iberia landed 35 and went off the end into the 35 localiser and 17's lights, I cannot see how, in any aviation law sense, aircraft are being permitted to operate on 35 now at all. Why?

Well, as I've already said, considering the airfield location, characteristics, shortened LDA, lack of ILS and the fact there's a whopping big airbus in the overshoot, how can you possibly formulate a safety case to allow any kind of operations towards what is a crash site? What happens in an abandoned take off ? What happens if a landing aquaplanes, to give you just two examples? What if there is an inherent problem with the braking action on 35?

If there were operations restricted to departures only off 17, with a reduced TORA, then I could understand, but what you are saying goes against the safety ethic I have always relied on to be in place.

Am I the only one thinking this?

Shamu

[Edited 2007-11-10 13:26:24]
Flying around India
 
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LTU932
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 102):
That is silly of me, I forgot that the ILS system is always at the end of the RWY where the ILS is active, dumb me! It was also obvious because the tunnels are right at the end of RWY35 and because of the WX conditions.

Wouldn't that be just the localiser antenna? I believe the glideslope antenna is always next or near the TDZ of the ILS runway.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
797
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:24 pm

Guys I gave a thought about the whole situation and came up with a question...

Let's say that IB puts this aircraft out of service and decides not to repair it. How will they handle the financial situation? I mean, this is an almost brand-new aircraft which is surely insured. Is the insurance broker going to pay the loss of the airframe or IB will just experience a loss (huge!) in their financial papers?

Also, I believe this aircraft was assigned to a certain amount of routes... how will they handle those having this aircraft out of service?

Thanks in advance guys!

-E
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 106):
Wouldn't that be just the localiser antenna? I believe the glideslope antenna is always next or near the TDZ of the ILS runway.

Correct. The glideslope antenna is always abeam the TDZ, and the localiser is beyond the stop end of the runway.

Lots of people think they are co-located, but you can imagine the problems if they were.......  Wow!

Shamu
Flying around India
 
brendows
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 106):
Wouldn't that be just the localiser antenna? I believe the glideslope antenna is always next or near the TDZ of the ILS runway.

You are correct.  checkmark 

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 102):

That is silly of me, I forgot that the ILS system is always at the end of the RWY where the ILS is active, dumb me!

Correct in this case for the LLZ, but that's not the case for runways where there is an offset approach  Wink
 
neuroticdave
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:17 pm

Quito is indeed a hard approach. I have been there tons of times, and the scaritest is coming in to 17. Those planes zoom past the airport, and then pop the tightest and fastest U turn you can imagine. On top of that, because of the hills and mountains, they basically nose dive in. If you see it from outside the airport, it looks out of place. And inside the plane, its a ride of a lifetime. From what I can understand this plane came into RWY 35, which is also a fairly difficult approach. In any case, UIO was an incident waiting to happen. From what I can see in those pictures, the aircraft took some heavy shots, but looks like it can be repairable. I know exactly by where the plane ended up, and it really is lucky the plane didnt cause a major accident. It was a very short distance from business, homes, and roadways. Now its time to figure out what happened. Glad everyones okay though.
 
AR385
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 105):
What happens in an abandoned take off ? What happens if a landing aquaplanes, to give you just two examples? What if there is an inherent problem with the braking action on 35?

I get what you are saying, but the scenarios you are presenting will pretty much render any airport without a flat, paved abd straight surface at the end of the runway unsafe.

1. In an abandoned take-off isn't the plane suppose to only abandon the take-off if it can stop within the confines of the runway? Otherwise the crew won't abandon it, they'll continue the take-off, do a circuit and land.

2. A plane isn't supposed to simply aquaplane. There is a bunch of reasons why it happens, and they are avoided (hopefully successfully) in the course of a safe landing.

3. I assume the runway has been looked over and there is no inherent issue with the braking action on 35, otherwise the airport would not have opened.

I believe that as long as the published SOPs for landing at UIO plus the NOTAMs related to the forlorn A346 are adhered to, there should be no safety issue with the reopening of 35. Kudos for the UIO authorities for re-opening their airport so fast.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 111):
I get what you are saying, but the scenarios you are presenting will pretty much render any airport without a flat, paved abd straight surface at the end of the runway unsafe.

No, what I am saying is that every airfield has tested, callibrated, approved and legislated performance figures to which ops are applied.

Quito currently has a huge obstruction at the end of 35 which anything could run into in any number of unforseen circumstances. You can't even apply the "land after" rule, because even in that scenario, you are basing your own decision to land on the anticipation that the moving obstacle infront of you is going to vacate in time. That 340 ain't going nowhere!

With your argument, how do you now legislate what is the new, temporary approved minima for an approach? Has anyone proven yet it was pilot error or a systems fault? If not, then there remains the possibility that there is a problem with the runway surface, for example.

You can't simply reduce the LDA because there's a damn big Airbus at the end and hope everyone is going to miss it. You are on a hiding to not only another accident, but a possible mass pile-up.

You are ignoring the inherent safety standards required for ops, and if that is what is going on in Quito right now, so are the authorities. Believe me, I was in Ops & Legislation for 4 years !

I, for one, would not even consider an approach in such circumstances.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 111):
Kudos for the UIO authorities for re-opening their airport so fast.

We will have to agree to disagree

As it appears, I still believe the only safe ops at Quito presently are reduced TORA departures from 17. Anything else is inherently unsafe.

Shamu
Flying around India
 
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breiz
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Neuroticdave (Reply 106):
Quito is indeed a hard approach.

Isn't Quito nicknamed "the Kai Tak of South America" because of this runway 17 approach?
 
Alessandro
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting RichM (Reply 90):
Quoting Alessandro (Reply 92):
797, 1st A346 that are scrapped, the Toronto one was also scrapped among a few others.

I thought that was an A343?

Yes, it was. If this is aircraft is scrapped, it´ll become the first A346 that are so, only 78 delivered A346.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Alessandro
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting 797 (Reply 103):
Also, I believe this aircraft was assigned to a certain amount of routes... how will they handle those having this aircraft out of service?

Thanks in advance guys!

Iberia got 12 other A346 and 19 A343, with a bit of code-sharing I think they manage.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
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tomascubero
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 109):
Isn't Quito nicknamed "the Kai Tak of South America" because of this runway 17 approach?

Yes, many people call it that but I think its because of the buildings. I've never been there or flown the RWY17 approach on the sim but I have heard it takes balls to do it, its not easy at atll


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui



Regards,
Tomas.
 
AR385
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 108):
With your argument, how do you now legislate what is the new, temporary approved minima for an approach? Has anyone proven yet it was pilot error or a systems fault? If not, then there remains the possibility that there is a problem with the runway surface, for example.

Yes. There remains a possibility that there is a problem with the runway surface. Hard to believe, though, as no other airplanes have skidded off the runway. No one has proved it was pilot error or a systems fault.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 108):
You are ignoring the inherent safety standards required for ops, and if that is what is going on in Quito right now, so are the authorities. Believe me, I was in Ops & Legislation for 4 years !

I'm really impressed with the fact that you were in Ops & Legislation for 4 years. If I ever have a question concerning those subjects, I know now who to contact. I have been in Energy Development and Infrastructure for 10 years.

I also lived in Ecuador and Bolivia for many years, and aviation regulation authorities there may operate with a lack of many things, but they are not stupid, irresponsible or homicidal, which is what you are implying.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 108):
I, for one, would not even consider an approach in such circumstances.

What you may or may not consider is besides the point. Although your opinion is very valid.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 108):
As it appears, I still believe the only safe ops at Quito presently are reduced TORA departures from 17. Anything else is inherently unsafe.

According to you. And as I said, that is entirely your opinion.
 
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Btblue
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:55 am

I was checking this thread earlier and I'm sure there were more links to photos of the accident.

Can somebody post some links?

Thanks
 
airportmanager
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 100):
It'd be a pity to see the first WO of an A340NG so soon, I hope they repair it at any reasonable cost.

It seems it will be written off. Airbus and issurance people arrive tomorrow.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 101):
If Iberia landed 35 and went off the end into the 35 localiser and 17's lights, I cannot see how, in any aviation law sense, aircraft are being permitted to operate on 35 now at all. Why?

I still cant imagine this hapening. But whatabout when Air France overshot in toronto, did they use that RWY? Or when the 747 in KAI TAK overshot?

Quoting Neuroticdave (Reply 106):
Now its time to figure out what happened. Glad everyones okay though.

Just to let you in on something, they say that there was a technical fault........ reversers werent armed, and watching the pics, I believe its true!! No reverser is open!
 
reality
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 116):

Just to let you in on something, they say that there was a technical fault........ reversers werent armed, and watching the pics, I believe its true!! No reverser is open!

Well, you did report this over 12 hours ago. So you were the first to bring up that possibility. We'll see if it turns out to be one of the causes of the accident.

You are a GREAT REPORTER. This isn't exactly like the demise of the airship Hindenburg (German zeppelin) that crashed in New Jersey in 1937, but you do remind me of the famous reporter who covered that catastrophe--"Oh the humanity of it all....." Your reporting at the time of the event was exceptional and passionate. Thanks.

[Edited 2007-11-10 20:27:18]

[Edited 2007-11-10 20:36:24]
 
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tomascubero
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting Reality (Reply 117):
Well, you did report this over 12 hours ago. So you were the first to bring up that possibility. We'll see if it turns out to be one of the causes of the accident.

Could very well be true, BUT if the pilots had time to think, which seems so judging from the evacuation videos that indicate that the evac was done very patiently and calm, they could and actually have to shutdown the aircraft systems, wouldn't this imply that the reverser shells close? There is a slim chance this is possible, but one thing is that maybe due to the structural damage, this shutdown wouldn't be possible, BUT then again, how are the engines shut down, they won't do this on their own I think...

Regards,
Tomas.
 
andessmf
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Neuroticdave (Reply 106):
In any case, UIO was an incident waiting to happen

There have been plenty of incidents that have already occurred in Quito. There was the DC-8 from AECA that crashed into a soccer field, ditto for a Cubana airplane, the TAME F-28, etc.

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 116):
It seems it will be written off.

I'd say it'll be interesting to document the process. I would say that perhaps an AN-124 might come over to take the engines. Let us know.

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 116):
No reverser is open!

Uh, oh. Good eye, but that sounds like a mistake.

Quoting Neuroticdave (Reply 106):
Quito is indeed a hard approach.

The T/O from 35 also has some difficulty to it. IIRC, the required visibility for a night T/O is 3 miles, since you have to go between two mountains on the way to GYE. Did a T/O once in the F-28, and was surprised that the pilot had to take the airplane around the mountain while climbing.

The airport is at 9000 feet, but the surrounding mountains are 15000 feet +.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 118):
BUT then again, how are the engines shut down, they won't do this on their own I think...

I would expect that the crew pulled the fire handles in an event like this. That automatically shuts the engines down.

Tom.
 
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tomascubero
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 120):
would expect that the crew pulled the fire handles in an event like this. That automatically shuts the engines down.

Ok, that explains then that they were of course shut down by action of the pilots. Does this shutdown also turn the reversers off if on, or at least move the shells back to their original position?

Regards,
Tomas.
 
44k
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting Ahlfors (Reply 91):
UIO is now operational...so far I've seen two takeoffs on runway 35

Due to the shortened runway 35 no heavy's can land at UIO at this time. At least AA has cancelled all service to UIO for the next 3 days.
 
airportmanager
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:25 am

Ok, well If im posting too much, just tell me, Im just posting everything as soon as I find out to keep you guys informed as your over there im over here. I use all my resources to get reliable information. Sorry if I repeat SOME inforamtion some times, ill be more carefull.

Any way, so far, all is the same, today i went to the area and saw the plane from an amazing angle!! tons of people came to take pics, and they find it to be an amusement park or so......they are even charging in some houses to get on the roofs, or gardens to see the plane. Ahh boy.

The plane is just like yesterday, now with bays closed and doors as well. DANGER markings around the airplane so people wont get close. Also, many guards near the plane. I still cant believe it, when im there!

Now, I believe baggage was given back to the passengers according to their tickets and baggage tag numbers, but what about the personal belongings inside the a/c? Is all of that considered lost? I mean, id love to get my stuff back knowing it all in one piece.

OK, I just read that IB personell in UIO and Spain have done nothing for the people. Airport authorities demand explanations and IB doesnt give any, nor any solutions! Airport people are very mad, and they dont know what will happen, but its rummored IB will cancel operations to UIO for ever they say.

Airbus and Insurance people from IB will arrive tomorrow or start their work tomorrow in order to decide the faith or destiny of this plane.


Also, regarding operations In UIO, I just read, that UIO was reopened to the discretion of the pilots and comapnys. Company CEO's had the last decision to operate or not, into UIO, so far, all of them did. I see KLM, Tampa, COPA, TACA, are operating into UIO, scheduled flights and all. Hmmm, weird though.


Now, AA canceled flights so did DL, and I believe some others did as well! Also flights are not entering UIO as ILS is broken and minimums are now up to 6KM vis, and vis now is terrible due to weather. What will happen with all these airlines!? Delays, bigger planes for the flights the next few days? I mean AA has canceled 3 flights up till now and they say in total 12 flights will be canceled!! I mean, tehre has bto be some way to fix this? Maybe a 767 to UIO for a ffew days? What about DL, and others etc!?

Thats all for now
 
PITrules
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 15):
Are there any safety issues with the runway in Quito?

Primarily, the runway isn't crowned and grooved, allowing for water runoff (similar problem in YYZ, where AF went off).

The ILS glideslope is steeper than standard, combined with an upslopeing runway. Also, the electronic glideslope of the ILS doesn't match up with the visual glideslope lights (PAPI).

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 37):
A girl was linading as I was told, last comunications heard were a girl asking winds.

Irrelevant.

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 82):
After he reported that, the IB landed UNDER minnimums (3KM) vis and overshot!. How in the world do you do that?

Minimum visibility must be reported when the aircraft is at the Final Approach Fix, not at landing. What is needed for landing is adequate "flight visibility", allowing for the approach lights or the runway environment to be seen at decision height.

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 112):
I have heard it takes balls to do it, its not easy at atll

Not balls, but proper training, cockpit discipline and adherence to standard procedures.

[Edited 2007-11-11 00:34:52]
FLYi
 
cricket
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:32 am

Wow the damage to the wing box looks severe, pretty badly banged up plane! I am not saying nothing can't be repaired but, this would take a lot of repairing!
been there, flown that
 
airportmanager
Posts: 448
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:00 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 124):
Irrelevant

Depends what your point is? Im not saying that it was her fault and even more cause shes a girl, its just like a note, like saying "There was a plane in the taxiway..." or a small observation.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 124):
Minimum visibility must be reported when the aircraft is at the Final Approach Fix, not at landing. What is needed for landing is adequate "flight visibility", allowing for the approach lights or the runway environment to be seen at decision height.

Believe me, I think that he was pretty aware of the VIS when he was landing, and just as a side not, they were below minimums (3KM vis). He mentioned it on the freq GND when he cotnacted them because GND controller asked him how he had his braking action and how the vis was (If it was really 3KM or more, a very common question made to the pilots here to help determine the weather conditions and operational status of the airport). So yeah, what you are saying is pretty obvious.

What you are saying I believe we kind of already know, even more those of us who are pilots. In this case IB has a different standard for app, in bad weather and low VIS, which they didnt go with this time.

Im out for today
 
davescj
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 123):
Now, AA canceled flights so did DL, and I believe some others did as well! Also flights are not entering UIO as ILS is broken and minimums are now up to 6KM vis, and vis now is terrible due to weather. What will happen with all these airlines!? Delays, bigger planes for the flights the next few days? I mean AA has canceled 3 flights up till now and they say in total 12 flights will be canceled!! I mean, tehre has bto be some way to fix this? Maybe a 767 to UIO for a ffew days? What about DL, and others etc!?

Thats all for now

Airportmanager, thanks for all the great reporting!!

As of now at least, CO lists the IAH UIO flight as leaving on time (11/11/2007) from Houston.
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
trintocan
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:54 am

Above all, credit to the crew for saving the lives of all 333 on board this plane and let's praise The Lord that a major calamity was averted in Quito.

As for the plane, sadly, it looks like write-off to me.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
EBGflyer
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:00 pm

I have been checking the Iberia website since this happened and there is no information whatsoever about this incident...or is it just me?
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG
 
Summa767
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 123):
Airport authorities demand explanations and IB doesnt give any, nor any solutions!

What exactly are the airport authorities wanting to know from IB? or what actions?
According to IB's statement, they put the passengers from the crashed plane, at least that should have continued to GYE, in hotels overnight to rest. They also made arrangements with local airlines to shuttle the people from and to Latacunga to Guayaquil. Is this not happening?

I wonder if there is just soem hysteria and raised spirits, as I am sure IB will want to continuing serving UIO. Direct traffic between Ecuador and Spain has quadrupled since 1999.
 
lasham
Posts: 214
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:09 pm

Hi

Its on a little late but have added the 1st shot on Anet

https://www.airliners.net/open.file/1291038/M/

Tony
No sun no fun
 
bullpitt
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:30 pm

Hi all

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 123):
I just read that IB personnel in UIO and Spain have done nothing for the people. Airport authorities demand explanations and IB doesnt give any, nor any solutions! Airport people are very mad, and they dont know what will happen, but its rummored IB will cancel operations to UIO for ever they say.

All I can say to this is that is a load ob BULLS*it. I wont go into what has been done as it's not my job but I can tell you that a lot of people have been working very hard to normalize the situation from the first minute the accident happened

People who make this remarks really piss me off.  flamed 
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
A5XX
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:54 pm

I'm not an expert on the subject, but my feeling tells me this is going to be a write off. This A340-600 will never leave Quito on it's own.

A5XX
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
Summa767
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RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:13 pm

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 132):
All I can say to this is that is a load ob BULLS*it. I wont go into what has been done as it's not my job but I can tell you that a lot of people have been working very hard to normalize the situation from the first minute the accident happened

I just read a Quito newspaper online to try to find out what the grievings are, and it would seem that passengers that required it were indeed put into hotels. There were still some complaints from pax with missing bags, and others that did not seem to know if they would be flying yesterday. But for what I read, it appears that it is the Quito airport management that is angry at not having heard from IB about its side of the story despite repeated phone calls -and to start the proceedings for replacement of the damaged ILS (at a cost of 20 thousand USD) that they expect IB insurers to pay. I imagine that as a private operator, they are keen to get the airport fully operational as soon as possible to minimise finalcial losses.

From El Comercio:

"Solo el ILS cuesta, según Posso, USD 20 000. “Esto será pagado con el seguro de Iberia”. Representantes de la aerolínea no acudieron ayer a conversar con las autoridades aeronáuticas para dar su versión sobre lo sucedido. Eso molestó a los representantes y autoridades del aeropuerto. “Hemos llamado toda la mañana y no hay nadie de Iberia que responda. Es indispensable que la aerolínea exprese su versión de los hechos y ayude a los pasajeros”, señaló, tajante, Villagrán"

http://www.elcomercio.com/noticiaEC....sp?id_noticia=150019&id_seccion=11

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 120):
I would expect that the crew pulled the fire handles in an event like this. That automatically shuts the engines down.

The action of the reversers is an interesting question. I am wondering if the engines were shut down before they hit the ground. I would expect that reverse thrust would have been applied right up to the last possible second in an attempt to avert disaster, and if so, the shells would not have closed before the engines hit the ground. Would the shells have retracted fully, once damaged?
 
Icaro
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:00 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:15 pm

about the evacuation:

If there is no immediate danger of fire and no possibility of using the stairs, the only way to leave the plane is via the chutes.
In that case, the minimum amount of chutes are used, in order proceed as save as possible. Passengers don't jump, they sit and slide, and ground staff will help them to exit the chute easily. On board part of the crew will train pax how to use the slides as they approach the exit, and some part of the crew will help them when using it.
As we have seen, it is the safest way of doing it, so the crew acted perfectly.
 
airportmanager
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:49 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 131):

They are demanding to know the cause of the accident, testimonial of the pilots, explanations about economic put backs for the passengers, the hotel deals etc, and well the situation of the a/c to know when UIO is operational all back to normal.

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 132):
People who make this remarks really piss me off.   

Blame the news papers, im just saying what they say.

SUNNY DAY! Gonna go and get pics!
 
kaitak
Posts: 9789
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:20 pm

Have they started moving it yet, or erecting cranes or other moving equipment near the aircraft?
 
Summa767
Posts: 1847
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:33 pm

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 135):
They are demanding to know the cause of the accident, testimonial of the pilots, explanations about economic put backs for the passengers, the hotel deals etc, and well the situation of the a/c to know when UIO is operational all back to normal.

Sure, I have gathered this from reading the online newspapers. In fact, I have also read the confirmation that the transport minister has suspended Iberia's licence for operation into Ecuador, until the government receives a statement with safeguards about its operation into the country.

I feel for the passengers if this ban continues for a while, for the disruption that would cause. Perhaps LAN, that codeshares with IB can programme extra flights.

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 135):
SUNNY DAY! Gonna go and get pics!

All the best with that task! Look forward to seeing them.
 
airportmanager
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:49 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:51 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 136):
Have they started moving it yet, or erecting cranes or other moving equipment near the aircraft?

Nope they say t will stay there, NOTAM says until the 24th, thats a lot of days!

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 137):
has suspended Iberia's licence for operation into Ecuador

Ohh ohhh, this is big trouble then, and the rumors are right!!
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:42 pm

Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:08 pm

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 121):
Does this shutdown also turn the reversers off if on, or at least move the shells back to their original position?

That I'm not sure about. It certainly could, but I'm not aware of any requirement that it do so. If the moving portion of the reversers form part of the firewall then you would expect that they're commanded close if the fire handle is pulled.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 125):
Wow the damage to the wing box looks severe, pretty badly banged up plane!

Maybe I missed some photos, but I haven't seen anything with damage to the wing box yet. Just fairings, engines/pylons, and gear. Which one were you looking at?

Tom.
 
airportmanager
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:49 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:42 pm

Looks bettter like this


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stefano Rota



Yep a bit late but thanks any way Tony. (pic was lost 2 times in the qeue, sorry guys)

Just got back from the airport, the plane is there still in the same position, but higly important people are entering the aircraft, taking pics of the cockpit, and well, there are stairs to the airplane in the front right door. I also see that tehre is cockpit or cabin lighting. How is this so? No APU is on, no GPU is conected........ hmm, abtery lasts very little.

Also, I see ttr4ucks draining the fuel out of the airplane. Lots of people with green vests and foreign look around the airplane today. I called the Director of Civil Aviation today! He sais he might be able to help me, so tomorrow I will meet with him in the afternoon. He said hes going right now to the Spanish Embassy because things are not looking good with this situation!

All for now! Will upload later more pics.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:44 pm

...crazy

Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Summa767
Posts: 1847
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:51 pm

There is an account from a passenger on the flight:
Sacha Rosero, 35 said:

"After a quiet flight from Madrid to Quito and Guayaquil, it almost became a big tragedy.

Quito lights looked closer and closer underneath us, and when we expected a smooth landing, we felt a heavy strike in the landing gear, that on contact with the ground caused an abrupt braking action that caused luggage to be ejected from the compartments, that hit some passengers in the head and that made internal parts of the plane fall off.

On stopping, the emergency exit was opened and we felt that firemen were outside spraying foam to douse a fire.

On seeing that there was no danger of fire nor serious injuries, the flight attendants tried calming passengers until the stairs were brought in for all to disembark. Until that happened, it was 40 minutes, with people more and more nervous and babies crying. In the end they decided to deploy the emergency slides and we all started to evacuate.

On jumping and looking back at the scene is when I become nervous, as I can see that the plane is at the end of the runway, barely 200 meters from the fences that separate the airport from the buildings of the adjacent neighbourhood"

The source (in spanish) http://www.eluniverso.com/2007/11/11...20139FB3C4634B18B2EF4A9E74887.aspx

I wonder if the mentioned "contact with the ground" that caused the violent braking, was the initial touch down, or when the plane left the runway and it's landing gear started ploughing the soft ground? I am inclined to think that it was the latter. No mention in this account of the explosions that others reported. Would those be as a result of heavy wheel braking?

[Edited 2007-11-11 11:53:47]
 
kaitak
Posts: 9789
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:21 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 145):
I wonder if the mentioned "contact with the ground" that caused the violent braking, was the initial touch down, or when the plane left the runway and it's landing gear started ploughing the soft ground? I am inclined to think that it was the latter. No mention in this account of the explosions that others reported. Would those be as a result of heavy wheel braking?

It would be difficult to ascertain anything technical from what a pax would say; not wishing in any way to disregard what he said, but at 9,000', ANY landing will be (or will feel) "heavy", because the acft is landing at over 160 kts, compared to a landing speed at gd. level of about 135-140 kts. There is interesting discussion on this issue on PPRUNE, where it is suggested that the damage suffered by the tyres was consistent with wheel locking, rather than aquaplaning.

As for the banning of IB from UIO, that's kind of academic; they're hardly going to land another A340 at UIO while one is already there, blocking the end of the runway.

I wonder how far down the runway the acft was when it landed?
 
airportmanager
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:49 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 146):
I wonder how far down the runway the acft was when it landed?

Thats the weird part because they say from the tower it was a normal landing, a bit higher on the app than normal but landed in the "TOLERANCE" zone. So why didnt they brake? What surprises me the most is that the plane skid 400 meters! Off the RWY into the grass area which is muddy and thick gras making it stop. If that wouldt of existed, damn, who knows what would of happened.

IB is banned only from UIO, not Ecaudor. Ahh boy, this is a mess
 
Summa767
Posts: 1847
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:46 pm

A video of the immediate aftermath. A good one to check out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKX2SubH7DM
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 146):
There is interesting discussion on this issue on PPRUNE, where it is suggested that the damage suffered by the tyres was consistent with wheel locking, rather than aquaplaning.

See reply 70

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 70):
Take a look by yourselves and pay attention at pic#2. It shows that the braking action was pretty hard due to the tremendous abrasion shown by the tires of the left main landing gear which collapsed.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...t=515

As I have said previously, I really hope this aircraft can be repaired. Damage looks bad but I guess it may not be critical and...just for the record...engine # 3 has not even touched the ground and looks in perfect condition. I say this after reading the caption in the following pic and after having been able to see the engine in other pictures:

https://www.airliners.net/open.file/1291038/L/

3 Engines ripped out, wing lost, a landing gear ripped out, front gear colpassed!

Not three engines but two. Engines 3 and 4 look "untouched". The wing...I don't think it's "lost"...and the front gear....it didn't collapse, although it could perfectly be damaged, but we won't know the details until it's taken out of there. So far it looks perfectly attached to the airframe.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
airportmanager
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:49 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 149):

Umm ok, I dont want this to start into a protest or fight. Maybe the words were not right for the engine 3 but engine 3 DID hit the ground and has a compressor stall according to the airport fire men. About engine 1 and 2 I dont know if there is a compressor stall but damage is pretty obvious. Ok, Engine 1 and 2 are not ripped out (As I guess your imagining, you think they would be out in the RWY or so..... OK, maybe not, but they are broken, and off the suppor on the wing, and on the ground!!! WOW!!  Wow!

One of the main landing gears was ripped out literaly out in the middle of the RWY, front gear i mentioned to be collapsed as into bent, not straight, not like nromal, bent in, about to break, is bent just about to collapse OK? Sorry to say this in this case, you dont live here, you dont have the cotnacts to hear the news, and you unfortuneatly you havent seen the pics , detail pics i mentioned before. All my sources that have given me information are trustable, and realiable and from what I have seen from far away, all this information seems true. Wing root is broken off from the fuse, there is a crack in the wing.

In any case, IBERIA747, forgive my life for having expressed this in different wordssss!!! Ahhhh, im so sorry, I will avoid doing this again, ok? Big grin
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB A340-600 Skids Off The RWY At Quito/UIO

Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 150):
I dont want this to start into a protest or fight.

A fight? Wow!

where? how? who? when? am I missing something here?

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 150):
Engine 1 and 2 are not ripped out (As I guess your imagining, you think they would be out in the RWY or so..... OK, maybe not, but they are broken,

I never said engines 1 and 2 were not ripped out. Of course they are. And read my previous reply again, in which I quote an older reply posted my myself. The left main landing gear has indeed collapsed and separated from the aircraft. Calm down man.

Will you be able to stay calm and focused if you are in the middle of an emergency while you're flying an aircraft? (I guess i read somewhere you're a pilot, right?)

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 150):
forgive my life

  

[Edited 2007-11-11 15:01:43]
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
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