Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
CO Suspends HNL-NGO
Not that big of a surprise to many of us...........but the announcement has been made today that we will be suspending our HNL-NGO route as of the end of March '08 to redeploy it to a more profitable trans-atlantic route..........which I'm sure many can probably figure out which route we are talking about !!
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
Seems like no one can make this route work. HP tried this route years ago, and it flopped big time, now CO tries it and can't make it work either.
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
Oh Well we tried... which Euro Route would that be??? Will LAX-HNL get downdraded along also ??? Too bad we could not try HNL-MNL or HNL or LAX to PPG is HA pulls out sad to see another CO wildebody exit from the Pacific but you have to follow the Euro !!!
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
NWA also tried HNL-NGO
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
LAX-GUM????
| Quoting CALMSP (Thread starter): Not that big of a surprise to many of us...........but the announcement has been made today that we will be suspending our HNL-NGO route as of the end of March '08 to redeploy it to a more profitable trans-atlantic route..........which I'm sure many can probably figure out which route we are talking about !! Smile |
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
That's a shame, i was good to see us on that route after our huge Pacific pullback in the 90's.
Expect this aircraft to help in wide body demand for Heathrow and possibly Lagos next year.
Expect this aircraft to help in wide body demand for Heathrow and possibly Lagos next year.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
GGg
GGg
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- AirlineBrat
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RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
Perhaps HA will start sniffing at that route........ They start flying to MNL next year?
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
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- Falcon Flyer
- Posts: 1150
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RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
Could the route have worked with a 767-200ER ? Seems like the the rights would be pretty valuable, particularly for Air Mike.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
| Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3): NWA also tried HNL-NGO |
At that time the route was operated by NW, JL and NH. (HP for a very short time.) NW pulled the route in favor of DTW-NGO (Toyota contract) and then extended it to MNL. Now NW operates DTW-NGO, MNL-NGO, GUM-NGO, SPN-NGO and a feed flight NGO-NRT (part of NRT-SPN). NW has been approached recently by NGO management for further route expansion. But as aircraft are not quite availalble, I doubt this would happen.
As for CO leaving. This is sad. It offered a much better product to JALWays. Though recently JL updated from a 743 to a 744 that has PTVs, it was not as good as CO's product. That all said, airlines need to go where the profit is and HNL is not always profitable unless you can market it as a one-stop to the rest of the US.
Last month when I went out to NGO, there was a Skyteam promotion booth up. CO was advertising flights to US via HNL but it doesn't seem like that can be as good as NW or UA promoting to the US via DTW and SFO.
Maybe we will see this come back someday but doubtful. Maybe NW will pick it up with an A330 sometime in the next couple years. Or maybe HA will take it over.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
Can't seem to edit so I will post the part I forgot.
We may have lost non-stop NGO-HNL but we still have one stop with NGO-GUM-HNL. But that is probably not as convenient as non-stop.
We may have lost non-stop NGO-HNL but we still have one stop with NGO-GUM-HNL. But that is probably not as convenient as non-stop.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
i wouldnt say we cant make it work...........but we have some plans where widebodies are needed, and we had to pull from the weakest link, regardless if the route was working or not.
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
When NWA operated the route they were using DC10s and the airline was coming to the end of a very good financial ride. HNL-FUK/NGO and the 2nd daily KIX flight were all dropped during the Asian economic crisis as well as the financial down turn in the US industry. This all materialzied toward the end of the 90s.
With a revived balance sheet, industry and more fuel efficient airplanes, NWA could really capitalize on this route. A 332 would be perfect gague. The only problem is... lack of airplanes!! Unless the 744 slack can be used to upgague other markets to free up a 332. Maybe they're saving the 744s for LHR.
Too bad CO couldn't justify this one, but it makes sense... put your asetts in the right place.
AZJ
With a revived balance sheet, industry and more fuel efficient airplanes, NWA could really capitalize on this route. A 332 would be perfect gague. The only problem is... lack of airplanes!! Unless the 744 slack can be used to upgague other markets to free up a 332. Maybe they're saving the 744s for LHR.
Too bad CO couldn't justify this one, but it makes sense... put your asetts in the right place.
AZJ
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
| Quoting CALMSP (Thread starter): which I'm sure many can probably figure out which route we are talking about !! Smile |
IAH--> somewhere, please!!
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
I'm wondering if CO considered trying HNL-NGO with a 757. It's pushing range, but that route is only 45 miles longer than CO's longest 757 route IIRC EWR-TXL.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
i've thought about that as well................would be nice!! too bad Japan isnt closer to HNL, we could have a 757 route network from the islands!!
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
| Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 13): IAH--> somewhere, please!! |
Heathrow (once they are allowed too) or what?
Just a matter of time until the airlines kill each other over the LHR slots.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
If JAL can make it work, why can't any American Airline company make it work????
Chuck
Chuck
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- klwright69
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RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
This is not a surprise. I am surprised that this didn't happen earlier though. CO never had much of an interest in nonstops between HNL and Asia. It almost seemed as if they started this route because they had an extra aircraft there and didn't know what else to do with it. That is the only thing I can think of! CO is the airline least likely to have a widebody international flight from a nonhub city.
It is interesting that some bring up HP's service on this route. I am not sure how relevant that is to this situation, how many years ago was that anyway!?!?!
It is interesting that some bring up HP's service on this route. I am not sure how relevant that is to this situation, how many years ago was that anyway!?!?!
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
No surprise here -- a route that ties up a widebody with no hub feed on either end is ultimately too much of an oddball to run for long.
Live life to the fullest.
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
HP operated HNL-NGO with 747s in the early 90s. It didn't last long, in fact none of their HAwaii flights lasted very long. NWA took over the NGO route and ATA flew the domestic portions on their behalf (PHX/LAS-HNL) for awhile before that too ended. HPs service was dubbed the "Pineapple Express" because more pineapple flew on HP than people!
AZJ
AZJ
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
| Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 17): If JAL can make it work, why can't any American Airline company make it work???? |
Feed. JL can advertise HNL flights and have pax fly via NRT or NGO. They have a good domestic network out of NGO and that makes a difference. The pax are not only from NGO but could be from anywhere in Japan. But CO's pax were mostly from NGO area.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
With a right sized equipment, right cost structure and strong brand recognition in Japan any US carrier would be sucessful. IMO if NWA were to restart HNL-NGO flights it would prove sucessfull.
AZJ
AZJ
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
HNL-NGO was, in my estimation, a marginally profitable route for CO. However, with LHR coming on at the end of March 08, along with EWR-PVG a year later, CO will be in desperate need for widebody capacity and will be forced to take 767s off routes that most likely make money to redeploy them to city pairs where there is the potential to make more.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a return to the market in 3-5 years once some more longhaul capacity is available.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a return to the market in 3-5 years once some more longhaul capacity is available.
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- calpsafltskeds
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RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
I would guess the route was marginal and that the aircraft will be utilized in peak summer to Europe and cover the PVG service later in the year. However, CO has many 739ERs coming and that can release maybe ten 752s for European service. Moving the aircraft to LHR might make sense, but CO could sub some 767 flights to Europe in double 752 service to get the same aircraft.
The NGO service provides a minimum of 6 hours of maintenance time at HNL daily. Subject to turn arounds, the NGO 0815 arrival can stretch all the way until 2245. Would CO also pull the LAX-HNL roundtrip and move 767 maintenance to the mainland?
With GUM undergoing a military buildup, could the aircraft be shifted to either LAX-GUM or additional HNL-GUM?
Too bad something like a frequency reduction HNL-NGO and supplemental HNL-GUM service didn't cut it.
How about something like HNL-NGO 4 days/week and HNL-MNL 3 days per week?
The NGO service provides a minimum of 6 hours of maintenance time at HNL daily. Subject to turn arounds, the NGO 0815 arrival can stretch all the way until 2245. Would CO also pull the LAX-HNL roundtrip and move 767 maintenance to the mainland?
With GUM undergoing a military buildup, could the aircraft be shifted to either LAX-GUM or additional HNL-GUM?
Too bad something like a frequency reduction HNL-NGO and supplemental HNL-GUM service didn't cut it.
How about something like HNL-NGO 4 days/week and HNL-MNL 3 days per week?
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- klwright69
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RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
| Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 25): Would CO also pull the LAX-HNL roundtrip and move 767 maintenance to the mainland? |
I find this highly doubtful... CO has been in the LAX-HNL market a very long time. I have heard it is also cargo heavy. It provides the link from California to GUM, via HNL. Anything is possible, they could use double daily 757's during peak travel periods I suppose. I don't see them dropping it altogether.
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
| Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 14): I'm wondering if CO considered trying HNL-NGO with a 757. It's pushing range, but that route is only 45 miles longer than CO's longest 757 route IIRC EWR-TXL. |
Well, I thought I heard that the TXL-EWR leg has had to make an unscheduled stop a few times when winds are really high. Only problems with HNL-NGO is...there is no place to stop in between.
RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
| Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 14): I'm wondering if CO considered trying HNL-NGO with a 757. It's pushing range, but that route is only 45 miles longer than CO's longest 757 route IIRC EWR-TXL. |
I'd say no. The pax count may have been low, but the amount of cargo coming in on the flight alone warranted the use of the 767. Around 80% of the ULDs coming off the aircraft was cargo. So much cargo was coming in that CO stopped taking our transfers to LAX and NYC. We used to transfer over 1 or 2 pallets almost everyday for each destination, but that stopped after CO started NGO.
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- ScottishLaddie
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RE: CO Suspends HNL-NGO
CO want to operate daily B764 and 4x weekly B752 to EDI next summer, could this move be to accomodate that?
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