Hello all

First of all I would like to thank you guys from breathing life back into Caribbean Aviation. As I am writing this it has only been 10days since the last post in Part 21 and part 22 already has 198 posts!! Keep up the good work guys . Special welcome to our new members BW985 and wadadli. Here it was that I was thinking that we were just a couple of guys discussing aviation not realizing that we have generated a following and actually making people want to join airliners.net. Again congratulations guys

News

• Caribbean Star 8B will operate it last flight on November 15th 2007. It will also bring to end the long takeover by LI.
  
• Caribbean Airlines to begin regional flights with its Dash 8.
  
• Air Jamaica ceased operation to LHR marking the end of an era in Caribbean Aviation
  
• Air Jamaica and Virgin Atlantic code share deal will remain after new government initially questioned it
  
• Retired JM executive Will Rodgers has been appointed as the airline's new CEO. He role most likely will be similar to that of NelsonTom Yew who was the care taker CEO of BWIA until Davies was hired.
  
• Air Jamaica to hold talks with potential investors including the Stanford group former owners of Caribbean Star and Caribbean Sun.
  
• Caribbean Airlines have expanded their partnership with British Airways.
  
• KX has unveiled a new livery link
  
• BGI Minister of Tourism and International Transport talks about master plan for Grantley Adams International. link
  
  
  
  
  Ok guys lets get part 23 rolling!!
  
  [Edited 2007-11-09 20:36:01]

Hey guys, nice job again BWIA772, and thank you all on a job well done, welcome wadadli and BW985. To all the usuals, AA1818, BWeel15, MD90fan, A388, captain and others nice job on part22.

To wadadli, ANU was a nice market to BWIA, YYZ was doing very well in ANU, however JK was lacking over the years as BWIAs service was detoriating.
I remember that BWIA had 4 weekly MIA flights to ANU, BW444 was it, and it did afternoon departures, the service was then cut. According to plans KIN was seeing more demands to SXM than ANU to CAL shifted the flights in the latter days. I hope CAL make a strong comeback to ANU again soon.

How is the rennovation project at ANU coming along?

More news on the pending JM merger

"Minister without Portfolio in the Finance Ministry, Senator Don Wehby has unveiled a time-table to complete preliminary evaluations and come up with a strategic business partner for Air Jamaica.

A week after the airline was placed in his hands; Senator Wehby confirmed that three potential partners are already on the cards.

Senator Webhy says he will first be searching for an investment bank with the necessary expertise to unearth the most suitable partner.

Late last week, Ministerial responsibilities for Air Jamaica was taken from Transport Minister Mike Henry and placed with Senator Webhy in the Finance Ministry.

On Friday, Senator Wehby divulged his next move - that is to find an investment bank to do the ground work in the quest for the best deal for Air Jamaica by month-end.

Senator Wehby disclosed that he is engaged in talks with three investment bankers.

"We have a number of interested investment bankers that we have already spoken at a very high level. The next stage of which is draft up the terms of reference and to go through the process of selecting one. I have set a date of November 30th of this year to choose a banker for us to sit down and talk in terms of what is the best way to find a partner for Air Jamaica," he said.

A team from the Stanford Financial Group which has investments worldwide is expected in Jamaica on Monday for talks with the Government.

The Group's core businesses are private wealth management and investment banking for institutions.

Senator Wehby confirmed that three airlines have their eyes set on Air Jamaica.

"I have gotten a few calls from three airlines interested in partnering with us, so I think the future is very bright," he said.

Air carriers LanChile and Hawaiian Airlines are reportedly among the three airlines."

And from what I have heard VS is the third (behind the scenes carrier). Not from reliable sources this time but acquaintances, it is said that Virgin is planning investments in the region and Jamaica........being Jamaica is being looked at as the launching pad, hence VS interest in JM. Let's wait and see, although the former JM pilots at EK are said to be planning to meet with the new govt (rumour mill).

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 3): A week after the airline was placed in his hands; Senator Wehby confirmed that three potential partners are already on the cards.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 3): Senator Wehby disclosed that he is engaged in talks with three investment bankers.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 3): Senator Wehby confirmed that three airlines have their eyes set on Air Jamaica.

The article is a bit vague. They are talking about three potential partners but they mention three bankers and three airlines, making it six potential partners who show interest in JM, so what is it? Three bankers, three airlines or three bankers and three airlines? What will the exact role of the bankers be and what will the exact role of the airlines be in this case?

What interest does HA have in JM at the moment? HA is coming out of bankrupcy protection themselves or they have come out of bankrupcy not so long ago. Before they are "allowed" to invest in foreign companies they need to invest in their own organization which will take time. If HA indeed is interested how long will it take for them to start investing in JM looking at their own situation?

A388

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 3): Hawaiian Airlines are reportedly among the three airlines.

And I will sit next to the Legend in first class on the first flight from MBJ - HNL........while drinking some Red Stripe!!



[Edited 2007-11-10 21:08:26]

I was just wondering, with this massive discovery of OIL in Brazil, do you think it would open up a different type of market for flights between Brazil and Trinidad???

I make reference to this because some of you were discussing different destinations in Brazil that Caribbean Airlines should fly to.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 5):

Could you have found a better video?   

I Look forward to seeing what decisions are made by the big heads up top. HA being interested surprises me, I cant for the life of me see a connection. LanChile is not so much of a surprise though as I can see a very possible integration here, Conway did have major plans for a push into the South American market.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 3): Let's wait and see, although the former JM pilots at EK are said to be planning to meet with the new govt (rumour mill).

Id say that that's one definately left for the rumour mill, because unless those former JM pilots have close ties with Tim Clark or Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum a.k.a the real movers & shakers I doubt anything profitable may be realized from said talks.  

Quoting A388 (Reply 4): The article is a bit vague. They are talking about three potential partners but they mention three bankers and three airlines, making it six potential partners who show interest in JM, so what is it? Three bankers, three airlines or three bankers and three airlines? What will the exact role of the bankers be and what will the exact role of the airlines be in this case?

Indeed a bit vague however, I do believe the Senator is referring to the bankers having put forward a suggestion of three possible Airlines as investors and said airlines being the "partners".   

I must say I loved that video! A Jamaican and Hawaiian romance - whether that will happen in the skies remains to be seen. Then again it is perhaps not so unusual to think that HA may seek a new allaince partner - after all it handles a lot of tourist traffic and a tie-in with JM would allow it to offer a wider range of holiday destinations and perhaps allow Pacific Rim passengers to try the Caribbean for a change.

Bob Marley - a true genius, not to mention how clever that video was - truly ahead of its time (music videos were in their infancy in 1977).

LA is a seemingly better match, it would gain enormously by obtaining a foothold in the Caribbean and thus a pan-American network. Virgin Caribbean! Hmm, now there's a thought... VS would be trying to do what BA tried back in 1995 with Carib Express. Time alone will tell what ultimately arises.

TrinToCan.

I do think the fore runner w

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 8): LA is a seemingly better match, it would gain enormously by obtaining a foothold in the Caribbean and thus a pan-American network. Virgin Caribbean! Hmm, now there's a thought... VS would be trying to do what BA tried back in 1995 with Carib Express. Time alone will tell what ultimately arises.

LA would benefit JM with the fleet commonality so technical and maintenance cost would be lower. The route structure of LA would benefit the Spanish Hotel chains that have been heavily invested in Jamaica.

VS's advantage would be the slot acquisition. Using JM's network, they are able to connect other Caribbean cities currently not served via a mini-hub in MBJ ( keeping fingers crossed).

Carib Express, those BAE 146 were sleek. Its sad they didnt survive the market.

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 9): Carib Express, those BAE 146 were sleek. Its sad they didnt survive the market.

BW is the new Carib Express for BA.

Quoting Speedbird2263 (Reply 7): HA being interested surprises me, I cant for the life of me see a connection. LanChile is not so much of a surprise though as I can see a very possible integration here, Conway did have major plans for a push into the South American market.

Well I can tell you that back in the 80's-early 90's HA did the LAX/MBJ using a L10-11 under a codeshare agreement with JM which was very successful and had huge loads. Those flights if memory ain't too dusty operated Fri,Sat, Sun and occasionally one mid week (not too certain).
As for LAN, well prior to them becoming LAN I remember Ladeco used to operate Sat flights into MBJ in the early 90's using a 757 from Santiago. Of course many passengers would continue on to MIA via JM , but you'd have those who'd have Jamaica as their final destination.
So the history of linkage with those two carriers is there so I suspect it could be an renewal of old friendships rather than a start up.
As for the EK story, its on the ground that a former senior JM captain has the ear of at least "THE" mover at Emirates, so we'll as I said, wait and see.

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 9): Carib Express, those BAE 146 were sleek. Its sad they didnt survive the market

Carib Express loss something in excess of US$ 10 million during their year of operations. The BAE 146 also played a major part in their failure!!

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 10): BW is the new Carib Express for BA.

Question what exactly is the expanded relationship that BW has with BA.

[Edited 2007-11-11 17:54:39]

Carib Express did not survive in large part because the BAe 146 jets were ill-suited to the Caribbean - there were problems in some of the smaller island airports such as SVD and DOM and the high costs and fuel consumption made them uncompetitive with LI, which actually became more viable when the competition was on. DOM was dropped after just a few months - a major blow considering that the Dominican Government was one of the shareholders (the others were Barbados, St. Vincent, St. Lucia and Grenada). In true Caribbean fashion both Antigua & Barbuda and Trinidad & Tobago were opposed to the airline's formation bacuse of the possible effects on LI and BW respectively. T&T was initially reluctant to let IM in after BA dropped POS from its network in 1994 but relented. IM served TAB for a short time too.

TrinToCan.

As for the BW and BA collaboration, on the last thread it was reported that BW will do daily POS - TAB - BGI services to link with the BA flights from BGI. One wonders whether there will be further link-ups, particularly if BW gets the full complement of Dash-8s active.

TrinToCan.

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 14): As for the BW and BA collaboration, on the last thread it was reported that BW will do daily POS - TAB - BGI services to link with the BA flights from BGI. One wonders whether there will be further link-ups, particularly if BW gets the full complement of Dash-8s active.

I would imagine that to run POS-TAB, and TAB-BGI and POS-CCS, BW would need to have the full complement of 5 Dash8's up and running.

I haven't seen any official reports of the collaboration, whether it is a full codeshare on all flights, but I did see something about miles being used on *ALL* BA flights, which might be wrong.

Will scope around the web and see what I can find!

AA1818

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 14): it was reported that BW will do daily POS - TAB - BGI services to link with the BA flights from BGI. One wonders whether there will be further link-ups, particularly if BW gets the full complement of Dash-8s active.

If I am reading you correctly that means that BW will be getting rid of the BW 902 and 903 which is done on with the 737 on the days that BA does not fly into POS!! Can anyone confirm this.


Side note..
Got PY 743 from Phoenix model company as usual excellent quality my problem is that I am running out of display space!!

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 16): If I am reading you correctly that means that BW will be getting rid of the BW 902 and 903 which is done on with the 737 on the days that BA does not fly into POS!! Can anyone confirm this.

I never got the idea that BW 902 and 903 would be replaced by the Dash 8. POS/TAB/BGI as well as CCS flights seemed to be an addition to their schedule to offer connections to JFK and YYZ. That is the impression I got... and well I think the routes would have more potential in terms of linking to the US and CDA rather than giving the BA flight out of BGI so much attention..Also logically, since the BA flight is run out of POS on some days and the aforementioned flights are infact daily, I would find it hard to believe that CAL is basing their current expansion around BA and getting to London.

I would be supportive though of perhaps changing the 902 and 903 to 1 or 2 Dash 8 flights because I don't think CAL is operating at full capacity on this route.

bw415

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 16): If I am reading you correctly that means that BW will be getting rid of the BW 902 and 903 which is done on with the 737 on the days that BA does not fly into POS!! Can anyone confirm this.

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 17): I never got the idea that BW 902 and 903 would be replaced by the Dash 8. POS/TAB/BGI as well as CCS flights seemed to be an addition to their schedule to offer connections to JFK and YYZ. That is the impression I got... and well I think the routes would have more potential in terms of linking to the US and CDA rather than giving the BA flight out of BGI so much attention..Also logically, since the BA flight is run out of POS on some days and the aforementioned flights are infact daily, I would find it hard to believe that CAL is basing their current expansion around BA and getting to London.

Well from what I see, This is an addition to what they already have well according to both CALs website and Amadeus.net.
I really can't see CAL reducing flights to BGI as they have fewer seats than BWIA did, and of course BGI is/was their baby.

In another topic, someone was saying that CM is checking BZE and even the PTY-MBJ-BZE route.
BZE via MBJ would be too much of a detour, if it's PTY-GCM-BZE, that's another thing.
If CM really starts POS and increases KIN to daily, I could see a early morning BZE-PTY, evening PTY-BZE via GUA or SAP eventually work. No more MIA to fly between POS / KIN and BZE.

This BA and BW callibration and thinking along these partnerships..... As much as i would like to see it.... i dont think AA will like this as they have their carib hub at MIA and SJU. I think that BA and AA being closer than BA and BW, AA would have to worry that they might lose their connecting passengers.

However VS could use a partnership in the carib or even take over of JM. With links to other destinations VS carib could work well and would also then be a big blow for BA/AA as VS would then have links in the US and to the carib..

I am a long-time observer of this great thread - but am always hesitant to add anything... I've been living in the States for too long and feel out of the loop?

However, I am interested in what Minister Lynch is saying about the expansion of GAIA in BGI!

My opinion? It seems like a fantasy to me and with very little probability of happening. I only say this because BGI seems to be unable to maintain some service or attract new service. CO was in-and-out very quickly. US reduced to only two flights a week. DL (from what I read) struggling.

The only way to attract more airlines would be only if there were more hotel rooms for tourists - and, of course, there's the need to attract more tourists! I can't imagine there's such a large amount of connecting service to SVD, GND, or SLU to warrant the exapnsion of GAIA, right?

Barbados does well with UK traffic, but continental Europe services is only through seasonal flights and charters...

I hope I haven't angered too many of the Caribbean Aviation regulars, but I think GAIA is the right size as it is now. GAIA could stand for a few more "unique" service such as CM from PTY, or flghts to Brazil, but otherwise I think AA, AC, BA, and VS have the key markets covered as well as they should...

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see LH, KL, CO , in BGI.

But, I'm not holding my breath!

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 20): As much as i would like to see it.... i dont think AA will like this as they have their carib hub at MIA and SJU. I think that BA and AA being closer than BA and BW, AA would have to worry that they might lose their connecting passengers.

The ties between BW and BA in this regard have nothing to do with wanting to take away Caribbean passengers from AA. The way I read it here the codeshare between BW and BA is directed at the London route connection from POS. AA is a powerhouse in the Caribbean, no airline comes even close to AA's extensive Caribbean network. The codeshare between BW and BA in this regard is of little to no influence to AA. The number of connecting passengers in this case is less important to AA. AA already caters for the large passenger volumes between North America and the Caribbean, both tourist wise and VFR wise. Caribbean connecting passengers to Europe play a less important role in AA's network in this case.

Just my opinion, maybe our friend MAH4546 can fill us in on this.

A388

No, the BW and BA collaborationwill have little or no effect on AA because they are targeting different markets. Additionally, AA has a strong advantage insofar as the LHR market is concerned - AAdvantage Miles for its members! These cannot be earned or used on BA so the members would still stick to AA in most instances. AA does take a significant share of London traffic from POS but competition with BA is perhaps leat of its concerns.

TrinToCan.

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 23): No, the BW and BA collaborationwill have little or no effect on AA because they are targeting different markets.

My point exactly  

A388

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 23):

Quoting A388 (Reply 22):

I agree with you both, but I think there was some mention of a deeper codeshare. I.e expanding it to all BW flights and all BA European flights. In this case, the alliance with BW will in a very small way compete with AA/BA's relationship. Instead of flying Caribbean pax into MIA for AA, BA will fly some into BGI/POS for BW to connect them. Or at least I think this was what BWIA772 etc were talking about when they were mentioning the expanded codeshare.

I still can't find anything though to support the claim that BW and BA were expanding the codeshare!!!

AA1818

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 17): I never got the idea that BW 902 and 903 would be replaced by the Dash 8. POS/TAB/BGI as well as CCS flights seemed to be an addition to their schedule to offer connections to JFK and YYZ.

Well my bad..

As for changing 902 and 903 to Dash 8s when I took 902 it was not packed to the rafters but we did have much more than 50 people!!!

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 21):

Somewhere between what Minister Lynch has stated and where we are at now is what BGI will grow too. However he did speak of a vision and that could range and who is to say that in 20 years that BGI needs a second runway!!!

The airport is not the right size as it is already to small. (see the following link.) One of the problems with BGI has to do with the fact the long time between the actual planning stage and the start of the expansion project. As a result we have the current problem of where the renovated terminal is to small.

Also we have new hotels coming on stream, including a Marriott 4 Seasons and another big chain which will occupy the Sam Lords Castle property. The airport has also seen quite a substantial increase in the number of private jets. However attracting tourist has to more than with just getting more hotel rooms. It seems from what I have read that we are realizing this are making sure that we continue to develop our Tourism product to more than just sun sea and sand

BGI does act as a hub for the smaller islands. That is why BGI is LI largest hub with more flights than the ANU base!!

Regards
BWIA 772

For all you trini's on facebook.

There is a group called TT Aviation run by a.netters Nigel Steele and Dinish Maharajh

pAnmAn

Caribbean Airlines to increase flights to KIN, JFK and YYZ.



http://jamaicaobserver.com/magazines...FLIGHTS_FOR_YULETIDE__CARNIVAL.asp

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 28):

Nice, hopefully their Christmas season will be better than the summer!!

Quoting Panman (Reply 27):

Some pretty neat pics and videos have gone up as well!!

Regards
BWIA 772

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 28): Caribbean Airlines to increase flights to KIN, JFK and YYZ.

Nice to see some non-stop POS-KIN. Do they usually operate this flight at busy times?? At least this flight was not suprred on by JM flying into POS this time!!! Last time that was just a bloodbath!!

AA1818

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 30): Nice to see some non-stop POS-KIN. Do they usually operate this flight at busy times?? At least this flight was not suprred on by JM flying into POS this time!!! Last time that was just a bloodbath!!

As far as I know, these flights have been run before during the same periods on BW... the only difference though is that I think they were done with 2 classes of service and not 1 as they are offering now..

Any updates on CAL's dash 8's?.. still haven't gotten an image of the full repaint!!.. come on   !!!!

bw415

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 31): As far as I know, these flights have been run before during the same periods on BW... the only difference though is that I think they were done with 2 classes of service and not 1 as they are offering now.. Any updates on CAL's dash 8's?.. still haven't gotten an image of the full repaint!!.. come on !!!!

Oooh. What's the point in offering one class. Are they expecting full flights and for no-one to want to pay a premium to go Biz?? Loads of businessmen would hop on that flight. Sounds strange that they are only offering one class....oh well...i have faith in Phillip Saunders!!

Also- I was thinking about that the other day....can't wait to go home and see the Dash8's- you know how I hop across to TAB a lot- hopefully i'll try a CALx Dash!! Would love to see some photos before though, but none on myaviation or jetphotos. Hmmmmmmmm. Very elusive props!!!


View Large View Medium

Photo © Martin Eadie


Could well be somewhere in the Caribbean eh?!?! hehe...

AA1818

Nice pic of that island.

I think the big white roof in the foreground is Walmart, and the little green roofs in front of it is starbucks.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 33): I think the big white roof in the foreground is Walmart, and the little green roofs in front of it is starbucks.

Nice one!!

Anyone has info on how LI is doing not that 8B is totally out of the picture!?!?!

AA1818

A local aviation industry official has told Stabroek Business that passengers travelling in and out of Guyana were likely to experience continued flight delays and cancellations because of the constraints facing carriers providing a service to Guyana.

http://www.stabroeknews.com/index.pl/article_business?id=56532440

------------------------

Can we ever see some big carriers like AA/AC come into the Guyanese market ?? Guyana never seems to be able to get themselves organised.

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 28): Caribbean Airlines to increase flights to KIN, JFK and YYZ.

Looks like it's only for a few weeks during the holidays, though.

Well guys today marks another end to yet another era in Caribbean Aviation. Caribbean Sun the ANU based airline started up to defeat LI will cease to exist as of mid night as all of its assets have been taken over by LI! It seems as if 2006 and 2007 are the years to end an era in Caribbean Aviation oh well.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 34): Anyone has info on how LI is doing not that 8B is totally out of the picture!?!?!

Well they have already announced the X mas plan along with utilizing one of the dash 8s as a cargo aircraft to deal with excess luggage hopefully this would work.(link) Now that 8B is out of the picture the job transforming LI continues. They have already committed themselves to improving ontime performance and customer service and I am sure they are going to look at their cost structure. Now is not the time to rest on their laurels!! I would be surprised if they announce a couple of strategic partnerships during the course of the next year.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 36): Looks like it's only for a few weeks during the holidays, though.

Yes this schedule will be for Christmas and Carnival which is in Feb for POS IIRC!!

Regards
BWIA 772

Just for an update on the new KX scheme.....
Been a bit of talk here in the papers about the new scheme.. Some say that the logo has been ruined as the tail now shows half the crest and it looks odd and also some are talking about sir tirtle on the right hand side of the aircraft being 'wrong' (as he now actually only has his left leg being the peg leg- on old logos, depending on what side of the aircraft he was on depends on which leg has pegged!!)

I like it and it seems that most caymanians like it.... but then again the papers seem to always make things worse.

Also it seems that our director of tourism is being asked to resign!! Seems like the Cayman Islands has been given bad tourism rep by National Geographic!! Lets hope we can sort this out and allow this to be controlled and keep our tourists happy and also keep our islands clean and nice!!

JM and VS expands codesharing to MIA flights.


http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071116/business/business1.html

Does anyone know how much of the Caribbean Star flight crews has LIAT hired?

Sorry for the late post.
Government seeks assistance from leading international banker to find partner for JM.

http://jamaicaobserver.com/magazines...9478_OBS_AIR_JAMAICA_IN_TALKS_.asp

*1

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 28): Caribbean Airlines to increase flights to KIN, JFK and YYZ.

TGIF. These service will start on December 12th to Feb 29th next year. They are to help out with loads out of the US into POS and GEO.
Also as you all will know, carnival is at Feb 5 and 6th so there is a huge volume of people travelling into POS during January and leaving in February.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 32): Oooh. What's the point in offering one class. Are they expecting full flights and for no-one to want to pay a premium to go Biz?? Loads of businessmen would hop on that flight. Sounds strange that they are only offering one class....oh well...i have faith in Phillip Saunders!!

Well its not technically one class but economy and premium economy, some of the fares in economy being offered are very close to business prices, so having one class service will give the airline a better chance of having a fully boked flight.

From what is being said, Carbbean Airlines is looking at having a great christmas so lets see what it brins to them and hope they fear well during this busy season, cause you know West Indians don't travel light for the christmas lol.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 35): A local aviation industry official has told Stabroek Business that passengers travelling in and out of Guyana were likely to experience continued flight delays and cancellations because of the constraints facing carriers providing a service to Guyana.

Wel you get what you pay for. I will never fly chartered services simply because IMO they treat you worse than BWIA did to its customers. My brother's flight with Travelspan last year was delayed by almost 24hrs, because their a/cs always seems to be breaking down.
Guyana like it so, because the people encourage these airlines to do them what they want. When BWIA was live they never tavelled with them from the time bad service was given, but they continually fly these cheap fare airlines that treat them worse.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 44): Wel you get what you pay for. I will never fly chartered services simply because IMO they treat you worse than BWIA did to its customers. My brother's flight with Travelspan last year was delayed by almost 24hrs, because their a/cs always seems to be breaking down. Guyana like it so, because the people encourage these airlines to do them what they want. When BWIA was live they never tavelled with them from the time bad service was given, but they continually fly these cheap fare airlines that treat them worse.

Just to stir the pot a bit.. I mean I would never and have never flown on a charter..but can you really blame the Guyanese or anyone in their situation for that matter??.. Let's face facts here.. Guyana is not a preffered destination and they still have some time before getting there. No major airline outside of the Caribbean has need or want to fly into and out of GEO....

So once we can agree to that, people really have limited choice in GEO... and as we know.. price dictates the pace in terms of who flies to where and with who... for example.. for the life of me.. every time I fly AA I say its gonna be the last time.. but it never really is.. there are always circumstances whether it be availability on CAL.... destination convenience or price that will have me on AA every now and again..

It's the same case for GEO passangers.. when they can't fly CAL or its not within their budget they gonna fly the charters.. but its not that they like it so.. they have limited choice...it doesn't mean that they can't complain because as far as I'm concerned those charters have the same responsibility to passangers to meet the flight arangements agreed upon at the point of sale.... just as a major carrier would...the airlines are the ones falling short not the people who are "letting them do it to them"....

GEO will perpetually be in this situation unless they can attract the attention of foreign carriers to pick up the slack.. but we know thats not happening any time soon.... so best of luck to them!

humble regards,
bw415

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 45): Just to stir the pot a bit.. I mean I would never and have never flown on a charter..but can you really blame the Guyanese or anyone in their situation for that matter??.. Let's face facts here.. Guyana is not a preffered destination and they still have some time before getting there. No major airline outside of the Caribbean has need or want to fly into and out of GEO....

I am not saying no, however, you always have a choice. I travelled AA from JFK to MIA, not me again, so I take JB or NK now.
GEO has Consellation, North America, Travelspan and Caribbean Airlines. Now when we look at it, its mostly Travelspan and Consellation, that gives them trouble.
When you fly with these airlines you encourage them in the nonsence.
Look at BWIA today. People refused to fly with them because of their inconsistant service; late, missing luggage, rude staff among other things sent the airline to its grave. Now if you apply the same concept in the GEO situation, with Gov't helping, service can be improved drastically.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 43): cause you know West Indians don't travel light for the christmas

West Indians doh travel light period! The time of year doesn't matter.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 44): I will never fly chartered services simply because IMO they treat you worse than BWIA

True I never fly on charters unless its essential. I have to say my BWIA flights were mixed. The Tristars were fun but i got delayed 24 hours in London due to technical. The A340 experience and MD80 flights were good though. My last flight was BGI-LHR in Business class on BWIA and it was good. Shame it has gone . I always associated Guyana with BWIA when growing up. It was a link to my Dads country.

I flew Guyana Airways B757 from JFK my first ever trip to Guyana.. Its a shame they couldnt have kept Guyana Airways . But I guess mis management and corruption sealed its fate.

Universal was a disaster also!!! I would love to see AC fly into GEO .

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 44): When BWIA was live they never tavelled with them from the time bad service was given, but they continually fly these cheap fare airlines that treat them worse.

That is why they keep flying those charters - CHEAP FARES. I know service can be bad on BW and others but the price is what draws they and it tends to be the over riding factor over everything else.

As for BW I have had many many experiences when the service was bad and it was not during the flight 99% of the time it was with the ground service agents. Not giving info and that dont care attitude. I remember once I was coming back to NYC from POS after Carnival I had a 1st Class ticket full price. I called BW to find out if the flight was going to operate cause these was a snow storm moving into the NYC area and many flights were being cancelled. I was told the flight was being operated as normal. With that I proceeded to Piarco. While enroute to the airport the flight was cancelled. The agent was so non shalant about the situation and what even made it worse they put up another person also on the same flight and first class also but told me they could not do the same for me.

BA several years earlier I was on a flight out of LHR to POS. I was coming home from school had three bags did not have enough for the overweight. I asked them to endorse the ticket over to BW they refused. I explained that I was not returning to the UK but they did not care. I eventually had to put the bag in storage which made me miss the flight. I was re routed to KLM via AMS on KL771 DC10 from AMS-POS-CUR. I asked them If they would let me take my bag with me . Well the agent made a notation that KL was not to accept a third bag from me. Again dealing with the Passenger Service Agents.

Those are just two experiences I have had over the years but there are many more I have experienced and seen. And I can tell you we folks do act differently when it comes to BW and BA and The charters. With BW we want to tear down the house but with BA AA the Charters etc we quiet like mice and have that yes sir attitude.