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captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:04 am



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 90):
BW is just putting its house in order before it gives JM the boot in GND and BGI!!! I hope we see that showdown soon!

BW can NEVER give JM the boot in GND. I dunno how BGI stands, they may be more loyal BW fans. BWIA left with a bad name, and people still think of it like that. Caribbean Airlines would have to do some serious marketing to be able to shake JM right now. Nevertheless, the combination of JMs US destinations, english speaking and noneglish speaking caribbean, a fleet twice as big as BWs, there is no competition.

Lets see how the whole privatization works out.

"SOARING TO NEW HEIGHTS"
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caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:17 am



Quoting Captaink (Reply 100):
BW can NEVER give JM the boot in GND. I dunno how BGI stands, they may be more loyal BW fans. BWIA left with a bad name, and people still think of it like that. Caribbean Airlines would have to do some serious marketing to be able to shake JM right now. Nevertheless, the combination of JMs US destinations, english speaking and noneglish speaking caribbean, a fleet twice as big as BWs, there is no competition.

True, CAL will not boot JM out of GND per say but they can surely give them a run for their money. But BGI is much different, JM does not have the capacity BWIA had given BGI in the past, and in their current satate ill not do so for a while.
The thing is CAL has a three year plan for expansion, flexibility and improved service, so lets see how the do and hope they will make a grand return to BGI soon.
All ah we is one family
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:43 pm



Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 101):
True, CAL will not boot JM out of GND per say but they can surely give them a run for their money. But BGI is much different, JM does not have the capacity BWIA had given BGI in the past, and in their current satate ill not do so for a while.

True but even in Barbados, the longer Caribbean Airline waits, the more it will have a problem getting its foot in the door. The BWIA BGI is used to is nonexistent. Caribbean Airlines is a new airline, and the longer it waits, the more it will have to market like a new airline. JM on the other hand already has New York, South Florida, Jamaica and get this, flights to UVF and GND, becuase JM has cheaper fares than LI. That my friend is the talk on the street now. Sure Caribbean will give JM a run for its money, but I am not so sure anymore it will boot them, unless something seriously goes wrong with JM service levels.
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caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:31 pm



Quoting Captaink (Reply 102):
True but even in Barbados, the longer Caribbean Airline waits, the more it will have a problem getting its foot in the door. The BWIA BGI is used to is nonexistent. Caribbean Airlines is a new airline, and the longer it waits, the more it will have to market like a new airline. JM on the other hand already has New York, South Florida, Jamaica and get this, flights to UVF and GND, becuase JM has cheaper fares than LI. That my friend is the talk on the street now. Sure Caribbean will give JM a run for its money, but I am not so sure anymore it will boot them, unless something seriously goes wrong with JM service levels.

Yes, but flights to the US from POS are cheaper than LI too. Thats why regonal travel is down.
I do agree that if CAL aits longer then they will have some problems, however CAL is not BWIA looking at regional routes to fill Gov't pride. They have no gov't interferance and run like private entity, that being said, they make business decisions that will be profitable to the airline.
When I asked Davies why CAL did not continue BWIAs route, its becuase he needed to start CAL off as a new airline and that while BGI had good loads to its US network, the looses were great.
All ah we is one family
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:40 pm

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 103):
Yes, but flights to the US from POS are cheaper than LI too. Thats why regonal travel is down.
I do agree that if CAL aits longer then they will have some problems, however CAL is not BWIA looking at regional routes to fill Gov't pride. They have no gov't interferance and run like private entity, that being said, they make business decisions that will be profitable to the airline.
When I asked Davies why CAL did not continue BWIAs route, its becuase he needed to start CAL off as a new airline and that while BGI had good loads to its US network, the looses were great.

Well I am no disagreeing, on what were Caribbean Airlines reasons for abandoning the region. I am merely pointing out that it seems as if JM is running things in the region for now, and it would not be as easy as people think for Caribbean Airlines to boot them. So BGI, GND and other islands were losses for BWIA and Caribbean Airlines does not wish to partake in that, well so be it. Meanwhile the Eastern Caribbean is a HUGE money maker for JM, hence so much emphasis being placed on flights to the region and what equipment to be used. As shown by out Jamaican brother there, the 175seat 738 is going to be used on EC routes as well, because there is a need. Past seasons, the NA 757s were used on EC routes, and bear in mind that JM charges an arm and a leg. So why wasn't it working for BWIA is a good question.

P.S. With regards to the flights being cheaper than LI, I am more referring to the point that JM is an airline now being known for intracaribbean flights, from islands like GND and UVF, this before was unheard of.

[Edited 2007-11-21 08:45:28]
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BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:44 pm

484
While CAL may have a plan one has to ask what market assumptions were made when the plan was formulated. If JM was viewed as being only able to provide a limited amount of competition then a restructured JM will force CAL to re-evaluate its plans and I think that we have to accept this!!
Eagles Soar!
 
miamix707
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:02 pm



Quoting Trintocan (Reply 8):
Bob Marley - a true genius, not to mention how clever that video was - truly ahead of its time (music videos were in their infancy in 1977).

Seriously, I would've thought that video was made somewhere in the late 80s or something if I didn't know any better. Wow!! 1977!!!!!
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:45 pm



Quoting Captaink (Reply 104):
So BGI, GND and other islands were losses for BWIA and Caribbean Airlines does not wish to partake in that, well so be it. Meanwhile the Eastern Caribbean is a HUGE money maker for JM, hence so much emphasis being placed on flights to the region and what equipment to be used. As shown by out Jamaican brother there, the 175seat 738 is going to be used on EC routes as well, because there is a need. Past seasons, the NA 757s were used on EC routes, and bear in mind that JM charges an arm and a leg. So why wasn't it working for BWIA is a good question.

My argument is now, how do we know these are huge money makers for JM. LHR was thought to be a HUGE money maker for CL and JM, and look at now, after 30yrs none of them is operating LHR again. BGI was said to be a HUGE money maker to BWIA and they had to scale back operations there.
Last time I checked, JM was loosing over US$120m a year in operations, and is epected to loose the same again this year. WE cannot say for sure how these routes operate until JM produces heir real operational figures( which no airline shows unless) for these routes.
Jut because JM is operating a 75 seater 737 for a few days into the Eastern caribbean does not mean that finnces are all well and good.
BWIA added many flights to BGI for the busy season, the demand was there, but yields were not good at all.
All ah we is one family
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:45 am



Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 107):
Last time I checked, JM was loosing over US$120m a year in operations, and is epected to loose the same again this year.

We may not know for sure, but I highly doubt that EC routes is where JM is loosing their 120mil. EC is new, and tickets are very high priced, we are talking about over US1000 at times during peak, unheard of before. I see where you are coming yes we need to see the books, but I am quite confident without the books that the EC routes does well for JM. From a passenger's view point, BW was a much more messy airline that JM. I worked for a handling agent and worked both JM and BW flights, and to me they were the same crap at one point, but BW a bit worse. You arrived to and in briefing you want to know what nonsense BW up to today. Passengers thought the same, and many people ran to JM. So save for the period of hickup in JMs recent history, JM has a reasonable name. And that passenger base would help them.

So who knows what the EC routes do for JM, I suppose very good things, and I am certain that BW would not kick them out easily.
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caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:02 am



Quoting Captaink (Reply 108):
We may not know for sure, but I highly doubt that EC routes is where JM is loosing their 120mil. EC is new, and tickets are very high priced, we are talking about over US1000 at times during peak, unheard of before. I see where you are coming yes we need to see the books, but I am quite confident without the books that the EC routes does well for JM. From a passenger's view point, BW was a much more messy airline that JM. I worked for a handling agent and worked both JM and BW flights, and to me they were the same crap at one point, but BW a bit worse. You arrived to and in briefing you want to know what nonsense BW up to today. Passengers thought the same, and many people ran to JM. So save for the period of hickup in JMs recent history, JM has a reasonable name. And that passenger base would help them.

Yes I see where you are coming from, BWIA was in a state of mess and condition was not like JM, pax ran to AA and others before they fly BWIA. I have had family that worked in BWIA and no one knew what was going on with BWIA on a daily basis.
The airline had no cash, service was deteriorating on a daily basis, employees were tired and giving crappy service and no one knew where the airline was headed. But the one thing I remembered that was BWIA was a competitive carrier in the EC and never really gave up. GND was a loss, I can't say why, so too was UVF.
BGI and ANU were their strong base and no airline, even JM could have come there and lasted for long unless you where the big MEGA carriers like AA, BA and VS.
Now I don't want CAL to kick JM out, thats not what I'm saying but to give them a run for their money.

I have accessed JMs route network, JM has little or no competition in the EC, that being UVF and GND. Now if a carriers comes in, lets say AA and CAL were going to offer flights for much less price than JM does to the average person what is going to happen to JM and their financial situation in the region.
JM has a history of not truly being competitive; POS, BGI and ANU are a good examples,

POS-BGI-KIN, they lasted 3 months before they realised that flying all the fancy shows was not going to work for them.
BGI-JFK was not a hit with them at the beginning because passengers to BGI, even thought were tired of BWIA's crappy service was still loyal, JM then had 3 weekly flights to BGI from UFV.
ANU was not successful also with BWIA there.

As I have said, competition will good for the people to see which airline truly has a better product, so lets see when CAL expands what happens. Yes they have to build a base again, but offering an overall better product will help them greatly.
All ah we is one family
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:10 am



Quoting Captaink (Reply 108):
crap at one point, but BW a bit worse. You arrived to and in briefing you want to know what nonsense BW up to today. Passengers thought the same, and many people ran to JM. So save for the period of hickup in JMs recent history, JM has a reasonable name. And that passenger base would help them.

I remembered what Davies said last year; rof every 3 pax that wants to fly BWIA, only 1 will fly them because the opinion of the people was that BWIA treated people very badly over the years.
There was a following but people left them. CAL is trying to put things in place with the finances they have, much larger than BWIA ever had, to improve service and compete for the pax they lost over the years.
Now the reason they cut all these services as reiterated many times before was to build a strong passenger base at their home base at POS. Then they will expand to other territories in the region soon, of course they need to bring in more 738 before they do, because currently they are running at a 5 a/c schedual. Lets see what the new year 2008 will bring for them.
All ah we is one family
 
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hummingbird
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:28 am



Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 107):



Quoting Captaink (Reply 108):

Good points about The EC as currently it is the money bag for the company along with YYZ and JFK. In addition to revenue pax, cargo is also a big earner. If only they would do a GND-UVF-MIA routing!

Regarding other routes such as ORD,PHL,BWI,MCO and LAX, these are mainly O&D flights with little hub connections.

ATL has its loads, but on SAT its normally connections for the BON flight, which is under consideration as DL has entered the market.
EWR is mainly for VFR as the timing does not allow hub connections.
HAV is popular amongst students who study in Cuba and IT groups.
NAS- VFR traffic. During holiday periods, normally a kindergarten flight, lol.
MCO. VFR and business flight.
GCM. VFR and business. Over the years the frequencies have been reduced while KX has had an increase.
CUR. Business and hub connections. Popular amongst Informal Commercial Importers. The Freezone operators welcomes them with open arms. The only problem is to find a suitable aircraft for the route as the A321 has capacity constraints.
MIA. Once a high frequency route, has seen a decline in the number of flights in favour of FLL. FLL is now a very popular route with very high loads and multiple frequencies. The FLL-BGI-FLL is a very strong performer.

Regarding the losses, it is related to overheads as the company is top heavy. Plans are already in place to "cut the navel string and tighten the belts".

My biggest concern is the A340. From its transition to the current configuration, I expected more economy and less Business and Premium Economy seats based on the business model . The reason they have not done the changes are the expenses involved. The change to P.E on the A340 was to compete with VS. The second A340 is currently in C check.

Will keep you updated.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
beeweel15
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:59 am



Quoting Captaink (Reply 104):
So why wasn't it working for BWIA is a good question.

A question I have asked many many times before about BWIA even before the shares were issued.
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:58 pm

Hi,

How is everybody doing here? I have a question for the ones familiar with Jamaican aviation. I have started a new thread with my question about low cost airlines in Jamaica. Please click on below link for the new thread:

https://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/3716431/

Hummingbird, Speedbird2263, Mbj-11, can you help me out here? Thank you in advance.

A388
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:48 pm



Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 109):
POS-BGI-KIN, they lasted 3 months before they realised that flying all the fancy shows was not going to work for them.
BGI-JFK was not a hit with them at the beginning because passengers to BGI, even thought were tired of BWIA's crappy service was still loyal, JM then had 3 weekly flights to BGI from UFV.
ANU was not successful also with BWIA there.

POS BGI KIN was the only route that BW went after JM for the rest BW relied on the loyalty of its customers especially in BGI!! What is going to be interesting to see is how long or if CAL can build that type of loyalty back up in BGI!!

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 111):
FLL is now a very popular route with very high loads and multiple frequencies. The FLL-BGI-FLL is a very strong performer

This is good news, hopefully we will see an increase in frequency in the next year.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 109):
As I have said, competition will good for the people to see which airline truly has a better product, so lets see when CAL expands what happens. Yes they have to build a base again, but offering an overall better product will help them greatly

Very true, hopefully we will have 3 healthy carriers operating in the region by this time 2008!! I think what will come into play then is the strategic alliances that our regional airlines make with other carriers!!

Anyways happy turkey day folks!!

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:50 pm



Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 89):
crappy a$$ 757s

Don't worry, soon enough they'l undergo refurbishment

Quote:
FORT WORTH , Texas – American Airlines today announced plans to make upgrades over the next two years on its entire fleet of 124 Boeing 757 aircraft to include the installation of new seats, new cabin interiors, and updated in-flight entertainment systems throughout the aircraft.

“American is committed to investing in products and services that make traveling more comfortable and convenient,” said Lauri Curtis, American's Vice President - Onboard Service. “The Boeing 757 aircraft project is our newest effort to enhance our fleet of aircraft, improve the overall customer experience, retain our loyal passengers, and win new travelers.”

The 757 enhancements include the installation of two additional First Class seats, which increases the number of First Class seats from 22 to 24 on each aircraft.

Other modifications include:

* New Economy cabin seats;
* New sidewalls to give the interior a lighter and brighter look;
* New LCD monitors, which replace CRT monitors, to enhance in-flight entertainment viewing;
* New digital media file servers for better in-flight video and audio entertainment quality.



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 90):
Nah man we letting them think they running things. BW is just putting its house in order before it gives JM the boot in GND and BGI!!! I hope we see that showdown soon!

Yeah right, BW won't give JM the boot in anywhere but T&T. I take it you havn't noticed JM's nice expansion form Bridgetown as of late, huh? Isn't GND going to be served with a 50-seater, how will that give JM's A32X/757/etc the boot?

Not only that, even here in Los Angeles, (the former) BWIA has a horrible reputation!

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 92):
NAS

Does fairly well to my knowledge, Nassau is home to a large Jamaican population, so the A320/A321s fill up pretty quick.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 94):
MIA has the problem of being complemented by FLL

In this instance they are 2 separate markets, Fort Lauderdale is heavily VFR, with many pax. going to/from Miramar, Florida. Miami is more old fashioned with good premium demand and connecting traffic, as well as South Floridians looking for a cheap vacation.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:52 pm

Here is the larger JM route map requested by someone:



Greetings from Los Angeles. How does a meet-up sometime next year in Miami sound?
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:16 pm



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 116):
Here is the larger JM route map requested by someone:

Thanks...That map is much clearer than the new one they have on their website!

Happy Thanksgiving
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:52 pm

BTW do not think that because 8B is gone that JM wont look to have a similar relationship with LI

MD90

MIA meet sounds great. Hopefully I can firm up my summer plans by Jan 31 so I'll let you know.

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
Inbound
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:19 pm

How come neither JM or CAL goes to Puerto Rico?

Passenger load too low, or competition from American/Eagle too high?
Maintain own separation with terrain!
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:11 pm



Quoting Inbound (Reply 119):
How come neither JM or CAL goes to Puerto Rico?

Passenger load too low, or competition from American/Eagle too high?

That is a good question. Why are JM and Caribbean Airlines not flying to SJU? No demand?

A388
 
md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:15 pm



Quoting A388 (Reply 120):
That is a good question. Why are JM and Caribbean Airlines not flying to SJU? No demand?

Not much local traffic in the first place, and what local traffic exists, AA has it sewn up, along with the connecting traffic.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
aa1818
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:53 pm



Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 118):
BTW do not think that because 8B is gone that JM wont look to have a similar relationship with LI

What do you mean? JM now codeshares with LI- it's on the new routemap on the website!!

Quoting Inbound (Reply 119):
How come neither JM or CAL goes to Puerto Rico?

[quote=MD90fan,reply=121]Not much local traffic in the first place, and what local traffic exists, AA has it sewn up, along with the connecting traffic.

Eagle runs an efficient operation out of POS daily. Fares are not the best, but still not over the top. I think there is limited O&D, and no one really flies to SJU to connect unless if going to the USVI . Miami is preferred for connections, thought isn't the absolute favourite.

Also- I think companies like Johnson & Johnson which have bases in SJU and POS, they have agreements with AA, so trying to compete and get the business deals is a massively uphill battle for any new entrant. Yields are probbaly not the highest, so not worth while to compete on a route with what i suspect is poor yields. As for Jamaica, I really don't know!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
bloodyrascal
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:01 am

Just a little bit off topic

http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=45&a=14928

It would be really exciting to see another European Airline flying into NAS.

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 112):
NAS- VFR traffic. During holiday periods, normally a kindergarten flight, lol.

NAS does pretty well for JM especially during christmas holidays and summer. This Summer JM offered to KIN and MBJ and on somedays had two daily flights to MBJ. This christmas is going JM is going to see full flights cause i remebered last year it was really hard to get a flight to MBJ from NAS direct they were booked months in advance. UP should resume there flight to KIN this christmas i can guarantee you a profitable route.
 
bloodyrascal
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:08 am

Just curious does anybody know how the NAS-YYC route is performing?
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:59 pm

I found the following press release on the VS website:

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...e/pressreleases/news/pr151107a.jsp

This is a press release from Nov. 15th. When reading the article it states that VS is looking at expansion from Jamaica to other destination in the region. To what extend is VS interested in starting up operations from Jamaica to cater our region or further to South America?

A388
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:54 pm

LIAT warns of bumpy ride due to aircraft shortage

http://www.caribbean360.com/News/Bus...ies/2007/11/22/NEWS0000005155.html

Quote:

BRIDGETOWN, Barbados, November 22, 2007 - It was expected to be a smooth transition when Caribbean Star closed operations last Thursday and transferred its aircraft to LIAT, but the regional carrier is now warning travellers to expect some turbulence over the next few weeks.

The carrier, which has the monopoly of regional air transportation with the closure of former competitor, Caribbean Star says a setback in actually getting the aircraft will cause some disruption to its flight schedule.

Training for staff who have joined the LIAT payroll has also contributed to the problem.

"Due to the delay in the delivery of the final three aircraft and the necessary re-training of personnel acquired through the acquisition, the airline is advising that delays are possible," revealed LIAT's Communications Specialist Penny Gomez.

To deal with the problem, she said LIAT's customer service agents have been contacting customers to notify them of changes to their itineraries and accommodate them where necessary.

She added that the carrier will also hire additional crews to assist with the transition period.

"The situation is expected to be regularised by mid-December when the airline is expected to cater to the busy Christmas period," Gomez added.

The news comes just over a week after President and CEO of Caribbean Star Airlines, Skip Barnette assured travellers that they would experience no interruption of their travel itineraries as a result of the transfer of aircraft and closure of the Antigua-based airline.

LIAT is owned by regional shareholders, with the major shareholders being the governments of Barbados, Antigua and St. Vincent and the Grenadines.

All ah we is one family
 
MAH4546
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:58 pm



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 122):

Eagle runs an efficient operation out of POS daily. Fares are not the best, but still not over the top. I think there is limited O&D, and no one really flies to SJU to connect unless if going to the USVI

O&D between SJU and POS is decent. They are the business capitals of the Caribbean, after all.
a.
 
beeweel15
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:55 pm

What do you all think BW is worth as it is right now. And is it whether it will be better to by the company or just start from scratch.
 
md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:08 am



Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 124):
Just curious does anybody know how the NAS-YYC route is performing?

I've heard it's doing good, not as good as Toronto, but doing good.

AA updates

  • Antigua in the Leeward Airlines, will begin on 19 November 2008, with five non-stop flights a week.
  • Providenciales (+1x) (3x 738) (seasonal addition)
  • Santiago de Los Caballeros (+4w) (11w 738) (seasonal addition)
  • Bridgetown: Daily 763 service during peak Carnival period, late February/early March.


All taken from here
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
Rampero
Posts: 119
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:26 am

Continental drop Ponce (PSE) Puerto Rico to EWR on Jan 17/08; with full loads all year, low and high season.

Rampero
"Ponce es Ponce" y lo demas es parking...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26468
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:36 am



Quoting Rampero (Reply 130):
Continental drop Ponce (PSE) Puerto Rico to EWR on Jan 17/08; with full loads all year, low and high season.

Low-fare competition from jetBlue and Spirit probably killed the yields at Ponce.
a.
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:22 am



Quoting A388 (Reply 113):
Hi,

How is everybody doing here? I have a question for the ones familiar with Jamaican aviation. I have started a new thread with my question about low cost airlines in Jamaica. Please click on below link for the new thread:

https://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/3716431/

Hummingbird, Speedbird2263, Mbj-11, can you help me out here? Thank you in advance.

A388

I was off for some days so I didn't "walk through the forum a while".
A388, I prefer to answer your question here as I realized that the post you had was not on the front page of the site, so I hope you don't mind me adding my voice to your question here. Back in 1994 there was to be the launch of a LCC called "Caribbean Airlines" which was scheduled to operate 2 flights per day between Montego Bay and Miami using a 737-300. However JM at that time slashed fares to MIA and killed the airline before they even acquired the ac. What happened was a bunch of people at a counter in MBJ nearly rioting as on the day the flight was scheduled to have its maiden trip the FAA told the officials that they were not given clearance by them to fly into the US. Therefore further "killing, the already dead" airline.
Only one airline really competed with JM in Jamaica, but more served as a feeder airline and that was Trans Jamaica airlines who operated a fleet of 3 Tri-landers, 2 Islanders and a Cessna. You knew them later as Air Jamaica express as JM took them over. In essence a competitor in Jamaica whether on internal of external routes will hardly......nah, will never survive. JM is like home, yu have loyalty to yu yaad no matter who comes.
Any talk of a start up LCC must be a LCC side to JM . eg, United....Ted

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 123):
NAS does pretty well for JM especially during christmas holidays and summer. This Summer JM offered to KIN and MBJ and on somedays had two daily flights to MBJ. This christmas is going JM is going to see full flights cause i remebered last year it was really hard to get a flight to MBJ from NAS direct they were booked months in advance. UP should resume there flight to KIN this christmas i can guarantee you a profitable route.

JM makes a ton load a money on this route and even if they flew a 747 in Christmas or summer it would still be full. I have flown this route, still fly this route, will continue to fly this route ......lol and its the same result, plane full of miserable pax who act as though JM is the worst thing in the sky, but will never boycott it. (Both Jamaicans and Bahamians.......in part due to monopoly). As of Oct 25th the period Dec 15 -27on NAS-MBJ route was sold out. And this route is served by an A321 on Fri and Mondays and the 320's on Thurs (Sun is now cut until Christmas where the A321 will undoutably be used on that day).

Other news:
JM flight attendants had a meeting with management and union leaders yesterday in regard to the news of the pending job cuts, no word on that yet, but they were worried about their positions as was everyone. I understand there will be no job cuts until a full and detailed analysis is done and even so, the cuts will likely be in managerial posts. Mrs. Williams eased her tome on the job cuts so people are now down to half breaths.

Virgin is looking to use JM as unofficial VS in the region, assistance could come in the form of ac and capital as Branson is seeking ways to kill BA in the region, and what better to kill a rival than double team it? But then BA has AA so who knows (CAL don't factor in this fight yet)

Finally, for those familiar with Jamaica, there is a plan in the works to close the Tinson Pen aerodrome in Kingston KTP, and turn in into a part of Port Bustamante. There is need to increase the size of the wharf and Tinson Pen is located in a strategic part of Kingston and is a land locked airstrip which apparently has seen its says winding down once people started ignoring turbo props which cost the same as the JM flights and took 10 minutes longer (at least Tinson Pen dropped you in the heart of town. The aerodrome is to be shifted to the Caymanas area as there is a very nice plain there (no pun intended) and I guess would be better aesthetically than KTP.
Finally Finally............Vernamfield is seeing a possible initial investment of US$1 billion dollars to put in new infrastructure for its operation. It has been billed as the third international airport "without international flights" and will be manned by the JDF (Jamaica Defence Force) Airwing and Army in general (so no ganja flights  Big grin ). Again due to its very lengthy runway compared to both existing airports, cargo ,maintanance etc could be the hall mark of this airport.
Thank you for reading all that gibberish, but that's called not being on A.net for a couple days.  Smile
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
westindian425
Posts: 729
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:46 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:51 am

New question...

What cargo (if any) business exists between POS and South America? Is there potential for development here?
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1614
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:12 am



Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 128):
What do you all think BW is worth as it is right now. And is it whether it will be better to by the company or just start from scratch.

If you are talking about CAL it should be worth in excess of US$50 million may be as much as US$100 but the guys from POS would be in better position to give a more realistic figure. Honestly you are better off just buying CAL, going head to head with it only makes sense if you are a billionaire with a couple million to waste!!

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 132):
Virgin is looking to use JM as unofficial VS in the region, assistance could come in the form of ac and capital as Branson is seeking ways to kill BA in the region, and what better to kill a rival than double team it? But then BA has AA so who knows (CAL don't factor in this fight yet)

IMHO one of the top priorities for Branson would be getting JM in an alliance I would say Star so that they will have access to UA domestic network and we could always see what happens with VS America!! Question if Branson invests into JM do you see the airline investing in an Eastern Caribbean Hub??
Eagles Soar!
 
caribbean484
Posts: 915
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:14 am



Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 134):
If you are talking about CAL it should be worth in excess of US$50 million may be as much as US$100 but the guys from POS would be in better position to give a more realistic figure. Honestly you are better off just buying CAL, going head to head with it only makes sense if you are a billionaire with a couple million to waste!!

Ahh no. BWIA was worth almost well over US$200m when it closed its doors last year in assets, when you take the stock value. Caribbean Airlines might be valued less but it should be in the range of over US$150m. But I am not too sure.
All ah we is one family
 
bw415
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:02 am



Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 135):
Ahh no. BWIA was worth almost well over US$200m when it closed its doors last year in assets, when you take the stock value. Caribbean Airlines might be valued less but it should be in the range of over US$150m. But I am not too sure.

BWIA was essentially insolvent at the time of closure.. their debts were way in excess of their assets...to say the airline was worth in excess of 200 million is incorrect when we look at the book value of the airline..insolvency dictates that they had a negative book value...if you choose to look at the airline based on assets and say that they were worth 200 million you may be correct but that would be quite one sided and unrealistic through the eyes of an accountant.

CAL on the other hand could never be worth $150m USD.. they started off with an 85mil capital injection and now with the acquisition of Tabex.. they could be well within that range in assets.. but remember their planes are leased and while they are "assets" they are also a major liability to the airline (except the dash'8s)... the Tabex dash8's cant be valued at more than 10 mil a piece.... only three are in working order so the other two would definitely be valued at less atm... 150 mil usd is a safe estimate unless we get some inside information... but it could well be a bit more or a bit less

my 2cents
bw415
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
BW985
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:50 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:43 am



Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 126):
LIAT warns of bumpy ride due to aircraft shortage

From www.newsday.co.tt
Pathetic Caribbean air connections
MARINA SALANDY-BROWN Thursday, November 22 2007

I like visiting Barbados but not being trapped there when the rest of life is waiting to be lived with its deadlines and commitments and stress-busting pleasures. LIAT, the only remaining inter island Caribbean airline, had promised to get me in and out of Barbados at convenient times over a two- day period. Vain hope.

The trouble started on the way there. The check-in clerk was sure I would leave on time at 2.10pm. Later, perusing my boarding pass I noticed the departure time was 2.30pm. At 3.30pm when a friend’s American Airlines flight left — on time — to Miami there was no indication of when I would set off on my island hop. When she landed in Florida four hours later I was still sitting at Piarco.

LIAT made no announcement but we saw from the departure lounge a group of young pilots peering attentively at the left wing of the plane, pointing at the bright red beacon light at its tip which should, I imagine, have gone out when the engine was switched off. This plane, supposed to carry us to Barbados, had come in from Guyana and after it had been refuelled and the new bags loaded I fully expected that frozen light not withstanding we’d be off in a jiffy. Not so. The handful of passengers who were ejected and sent into the terminal building followed by all the bags being unloaded was proof that that plane was going nowhere.

It was ominous, but not quite as once when in Kenya waiting, hours late, to return to London on Kenya Airlines we’d been told that the delay was due to the captain oversleeping. Obviously, a lie that’s a better excuse there than admitting an aircraft is faulty. It was with disbelief that we’d observed, from the gallery, a tractor – like you see in the fields and not on airport runways – approach the aircraft, the driver climb up and start prodding the large jet engine with what looked like a broom handle. I tell the absolute truth. We spent the next 48 hours living it up at a posh hotel in Nairobi courtesy the impoverished Kenya Airlines, eating Impala (the most succulent meat I have ever eaten) and amusing my son with the fascinating collection of reptiles in the national zoo.

I walked into my Barbados hotel last week eight hours after arriving at Piarco thinking, ironically, I might not catch the plane. I’d checked in twice, the second time on British Airways that finally left at 7.30pm obligingly transporting us miscreants. I’d collected my luggage twice, once in Trinidad where I’d had to then proceed to Customs as if I’d just arrived, and back through Immigration as if I hadn’t done that a few hours earlier. We were offered not a drink, nor any sustenance, and not even an explanation.

On the way back, 49 passengers tumbled into a LIAT propeller plane, happy that although an hour late, we were heading to Trinidad leaving a group of very irate travellers screaming at the LIAT rep who’d just announced that their flight to Antigua was cancelled and he had no idea when they would be leaving. He threatened to call the police but they were full of LIAT horror stories. They demanded a chartered aircraft at once, their money back, and that the limey Englishman running the newly amalgamated Caribbean Star and LIAT should get his tail off his prim perch up there in Antigua and come down here and tell us why LIAT is in such a mess. “Tell him we’ve beaten everything out of yuh, yuh masculinity an’ all, an’ all yuh have left is your mout’ to call him with.”

It was funny, but not when they demanded that our flight, scheduled to leave after theirs, should be given to them instead. What they didn’t know was: that we’d had the same experience the previous evening and had been LIAT’s overnight guests at a Bridgetown hotel; that we’d been offered US$12 worth of dinner at a fast food outlet and $10 of the same greasy fried chicken for breakfast; that we’d got to the airport at 5.30pm the day before and finally to bed near midnight; that we’d checked in twice and cleared Immigration, Customs and Security three times over the previous 15 hours.

On the 40-minute flight home there was no water or grace, but our luggage was on board and we arrived safely – the least an airline must do. With Caribbean Airlines now little more than a long-haul charter airline and LIAT very expensive and inefficient what sort of proper air transport system are we to have in the region? Anybody’s guess is as good as mine. And there’s no point asking the operators because they care not one jot.
 
beeweel15
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:52 am



Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 134):
I would say Star

Why UA.

VS has a major alliance / code share with Continental Airlines. And dont forget the start up VS America .
 
beeweel15
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:04 am



Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 133):
What cargo (if any) business exists between POS and South America? Is there potential for development here?

There is a tremendous market between South America and the USA & Europe. Many times a lot of cargo transits through JFK to Europe. I know VS does receive a lot cause I got to get those planes loaded and sent to LHR. While POS will not be a major destination it can be developed into a major transit point.
 
A388
Posts: 8025
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:39 am



Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 132):
Virgin is looking to use JM as unofficial VS in the region, assistance could come in the form of ac and capital as Branson is seeking ways to kill BA in the region, and what better to kill a rival than double team it? But then BA has AA so who knows (CAL don't factor in this fight yet)

Mbj-11 thank you very much for your explanation on a LCC on Jamaica. I was actually looking more in the direction of a joint LCC start up with JM and was thinking that maybe VS could be a candidate as they seem to be interested to expand in Jamaica. Now you also say that VS might want to expand in the Caribbean to compete against BA but do you see this materialize? Is it too much imagination to see a LCC airline based in Jamaica with a small JM logo with the text "Operated by JM"? You mention that if a new airline is to be established in Jamaca they main aim is to compete with BA in the Caribbean but it go so far as to expanding into South America and function as a hub between North America and South America?

Many thanks for your explanation and I'm looking forward to more insights from you and/or any other of our Jamaican friends here.

A388
 
BWIA 772
Topic Author
Posts: 1614
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:45 pm



Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 138):
Why UA.

VS has a major alliance / code share with Continental Airlines. And dont forget the start up VS America .

'
Did not know much about the CO code share. I know VX is a start up and that is why I said "we could always see what happens with VS America!! "

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 136):

Thanks BW415 I knew that the bulk of money allocated for the BW/CAL operation went into clearing off the debts of BWIA but I could not remeber the total of the inital capital injection plus the injection they received when Tabex was taken over!!

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:04 pm

Austrian will begin 777 service to Punta Cana, Dominican Republic (seldom mentioned part of the Caribbean here)


OS9561 VIE1055 - 1645PUJ 772 3
OS9562 PUJ1815 - 0910+1VIE 772 4

JM and VS codeshare:

http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
bw415
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

hmm things real quiet in here boy.... where is the distraction that I'm always dependent on to keep me from doing my work???. .lol.. nothing of note goin on in KIN???? come on someone fill my craving!

bw415
Caribbean Airlines the warmth of the islands
 
aa1818
Posts: 1557
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:22 pm

I'm organizing to head back to POS- so i've been out of touch....almost done packing.....as soon as i get back home i'll do some digging for some information!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:28 pm



Quoting Bw415 (Reply 143):
hmm things real quiet in here boy.... where is the distraction that I'm always dependent on to keep me from doing my work???. .lol.. nothing of note goin on in KIN???? come on someone fill my craving!

A few of us tying up final exmas. Look like AA1818 finish already, lucky bastard.. HEHE

Who is going to be in NY this winter, so far we have Caribbean484, West Indian425, BeeWeel15 and I. Sounds like a small meet. Anyhow interested?
Look Up
 
aa1818
Posts: 1557
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:03 pm



Quoting Captaink (Reply 145):
Who is going to be in NY this winter, so far we have Caribbean484, West Indian425, BeeWeel15 and I. Sounds like a small meet. Anyhow interested?

I will be on Maracas Beach chomping down a shark and bake from Richards!!!!

Sorry I can't make it- we shud definitely organize another meet soon though!!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:08 pm



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 146):
I will be on Maracas Beach chomping down a shark and bake from Richards!!!!

Vacations early, going to beach for Christmas. AA1818, you are officially my enemy.  Sad
Look Up
 
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turk223
Posts: 422
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:06 pm



Quoting BW985 (Reply 56):
Did you know that SAS use to fly to POS and GEO.

As far as I know, SAS used to fly to BGI on the way to POS. I remember seeing the routing on a SAS flight schedule brochure from the 1970s.

Scanair definitely flew to BGI from ARN in the 80s - I remember seeing the DC-8 and, later on, an occasional DC-10. I wish BGI could attract a continental European airline again - all we get now is Condor. What could we do to entice SAS or Lufthansa?
 
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hummingbird
Posts: 1525
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part Xxiii

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:16 pm



Quoting A388 (Reply 125):

This is a press release from Nov. 15th. When reading the article it states that Virgin Atlantic is looking at expansion from Jamaica to other destination in the region. To what extend is VS interested in starting up operations from Jamaica to cater our region or further to South America.

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...e/pressreleases/news/pr151107a.jsp

Sorry for the delay with my response. My sources are still collecting information.

Having read the article, I can assume they have plans to expand to the Caribbean using MBJ as a mini hub and JM doing Caribbean connections. Wouldn't be surprised to see the launch of a MAN flight.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 132):

Back in 1994 there was to be the launch of a LCC called "Caribbean Airlines" which was scheduled to operate 2 flights per day between Montego Bay and Miami using a 737-300. However JM at that time slashed fares to MIA and killed the airline before they even acquired the ac.

They actually took to the skies. Their start-up was delayed twice, but finally got off the ground. The aircraft was a B727-200 with US registration and Jamerican cabin crew. When they first advertised, their service would consist a hot meal with champagne ( i still have the newspaper clipping). Due to frequent maintenance delays the B727 was returned and a 737-200 was subleased from a Central American carrier. With rising cost and low yields, the company eventually folded in 1997 .

[quote=Mbj-11,reply=132]Only one airline really competed with JM in Jamaica, but more served as a feeder airline and that was Trans Jamaica airlines who operated a fleet of 3 Tri-landers, 2 Islanders and a Cessna

You can add the ATR42-300, that was used to Santo Domingo.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..

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