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USADreamliner
Topic Author
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EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:16 pm

El Al Israel Airlines Board Chairman Izzy Borovich attended last week's ALTA Airline Leaders Forum in Cancun as the carrier looks to grow its presence in the region. Approximately 150,000 Israelis visit Latin America each year, Borovich told ATWOnline. Although El Al does not have plans to offer direct service to take advantage of this market, he envisions creating bilateral codesharing partnerships to serve the region via European gateways. El Al already flies to almost every big city in Europe twice daily, he said, providing a connecting opportunity for a Latin American carrier coming across the Atlantic from the other direction.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=11%2F13%2F2007


Do they codeshare with Latin American airline?
I guess Argentina ( the sixth largest jewish population in the world) and Brazil are the best candidates.
 
MAH4546
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:30 pm

There are rumours they will begin codesharing with AA next year, so this would be a step towards that.
a.
 
IAD380
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:40 pm

Last year, the website of Israel's Ministry of Tourism reported that 100,000 Latin Americans visted Israel in 2005. I assume that number is stable or growing. The 150,000 Israelis who visit Latin America and the 100,000 Latin Americans who travel to Israel amount to a market of 250,000 people. Probably, most of the traffic is to or from Argentina, Brazil, and Mexico. Despite the size of the market, conventional wisdom is that direct flights between TLV and EZE, GIG, GRU, and MEX would not be profitable.

LY already codeshares with IB. Varig recently signed an interline agreement with El Al. Besides AA, which other airlines would likely sign a codeshare agreement with LY?
 
ptugarin
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:47 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
There are rumours they will begin codesharing with AA next year

This doesn't make sense because Both Israelis and Latinos need US transit visas.
 
MAH4546
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:51 pm



Quoting Ptugarin (Reply 3):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
There are rumours they will begin codesharing with AA next year

This doesn't make sense because Both Israelis and Latinos need US transit visas.

So? It's not that big of a deal.
a.
 
ptugarin
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:06 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
So? It's not that big of a deal.

It´s not when you are on a visa waiver. Who wants to go through the bureaucracy of getting US visa when traveling between Israel and Latin America?
 
MAH4546
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:11 pm



Quoting Ptugarin (Reply 5):

It´s not when you are on a visa waiver. Who wants to go through the bureaucracy of getting US visa when traveling between Israel and Latin America?

Because it is not that difficult a process. It's quite simple for most flyers, especially Israelis. Besides, Israel will soon qualify for visa waivers, as will Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay.
a.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:17 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Because it is not that difficult a process. It's quite simple for most flyers, especially Israelis. Besides, Israel will soon qualify for visa waivers, as will Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay.

= Are you sure about this? Argentina, Korea, and Uruguay is what I hear, but Brasil?

There is a huge latent demand for Israeli-Latin America flights. Its an interesting market though - traffic out of Israel is driven by teens out of the army duty who do the "elgringo.il" route of doing an open jaw into Brasil/Argentina and flying out of Centro America/Colombia/Venezuela. On the other side, traffic into Israel sees a lot of rich Latin elites (Jewish, lot out of MEX/MTY) wanting to visit. Good balsy move by LY. Lets see what happens.

Cheers,
A.

PS: I too dont think the C1 is such a huge deal.
Live, and let live.
 
md90fan
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:22 pm

El Al wanted to fly to EZE 2 years ago IIRC, they even considering buying a used 747-300. Argentina has in around 200,000 Jews.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
MAH4546
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:25 pm



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 7):

= Are you sure about this? Argentina, Korea, and Uruguay is what I hear, but Brasil?

Yes, Brazil:

http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8533/54/
a.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:32 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Yes, Brazil:

http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/vi...3/54/

= Wow. Thanks for the link. I learn something everyday here. I am happy for the Brasilians. I am still surprised though ... FY 2006 listing of F1B rejections ... http://travel.state.gov/pdf/CombinedRefusalRate.pdf for a random FYI.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
B4REAL
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:59 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
There are rumours they will begin codesharing with AA next year, so this would be a step towards that.

That does make sense now that the DL codeshare is now over.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
bsbisland
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:50 am



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 10):
= Wow. Thanks for the link. I learn something everyday here. I am happy for the Brasilians. I am still surprised though ... FY 2006 listing of F1B rejections ...

"A country's visa refusal rate is just one of the criteria considered when determining a
country's eligibility for Visa Waiver Program status"

I believe the most important thing for a country's eligibility for Visa Waiver Program is if the potential benefits (more tourists, maybe more business relations) are bigger than the costs (illegal imigrants). Sure there will be many more Brazilians, Koreans and Argentinians going to the USA to spend their money, and the benefit of this is bigger than the cost of few more overstays that might occur if no visa is required.

For many Brazilians, getting a visa for the USA is a pain in the ass because you have to go personally to cities where are the American embassy or the consulates. There are just a few in Brazil (Brasilia, Recife, Rio, Sao Paulo and Porto Alegre) and then many people would have to travel long ways to go to the interview. Just the (high) cost and inconvenience of this make lots of people give up going to the USA and instead go to places like Europe where no visa is required.
 
IAD380
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:49 am



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 7):
traffic out of Israel is driven by teens out of the army duty who do the "elgringo.il" route of doing an open jaw into Brasil/Argentina and flying out of . . . Venezuela.

Can Israeli citizens even obtain visas to enter Venezuela? The Venezuelan government withdrew its diplomatic representative from Israel in 2006. I read that the Venezuelan embassy and consulate in Tel Aviv no longer carries out routine functions, such as issuing visas.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:26 am



Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 12):
"A country's visa refusal rate is just one of the criteria considered when determining a
country's eligibility for Visa Waiver Program status"

I believe the most important thing for a country's eligibility for Visa Waiver Program is if the potential benefits (more tourists, maybe more business relations) are bigger than the costs (illegal imigrants). Sure there will be many more Brazilians, Koreans and Argentinians going to the USA to spend their money, and the benefit of this is bigger than the cost of few more overstays that might occur if no visa is required.

For many Brazilians, getting a visa for the USA is a pain in the ass because you have to go personally to cities where are the American embassy or the consulates. There are just a few in Brazil (Brasilia, Recife, Rio, Sao Paulo and Porto Alegre) and then many people would have to travel long ways to go to the interview. Just the (high) cost and inconvenience of this make lots of people give up going to the USA and instead go to places like Europe where no visa is required.

= Yes, I know the refusal rate is not the main criterion. Dont get me wrong ... I am super happy from Brasilians who want to head to the U.S. and join fellow cohorts in spending Reais in Miami, NY, or LA. Its one of my 3 favorite countries, and more power to the Brasileiros. I was surprised because I had not realized this had passed Congress and became law.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
bsbisland
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:13 am



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 14):
Dont get me wrong

Oh I didn't get you wrong in any moment. I was just trying to clarify something.

Cheers
 
abrelosojos
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:47 am



Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 15):
Oh I didn't get you wrong in any moment. I was just trying to clarify something.

Cheers

= Cool  thumbsup  . I am off to take a flight to Brasil actually.

Ciao,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:06 am



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 2):
LY already codeshares with IB

AFAIK they codeshare only on TLV-MAD but not on any of IB's LATAM flights, can anyone confirm?

EY/IB codeshare through MAD makes much better sense than codesharing with AA via US. Anybody can say getting a US visa is not such a big deal, but in any case is worse than not requiring a visa at all.

Other advantages here are distances (for example TLV-MIA-EZE is much longer than TLV-MAD-EZE) and not having to clear customs at MAD.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:42 pm

90% of Israelis have 10 year visas in the United States. Everyone in Israel has been to New York. You can quote me on that. It's not hard for Israelis to get United States Visas.

The only possible choice for EL AL to codeshare on flight to Latin America is VARIG, It seems to me they both mix well.
 
IAD380
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:46 pm

Perhaps, IB and MAD are the only logical choices by default. IB has an extensive network in Latin America whereas most Latin American airlines don't fly to many European cities besides MAD.
 
LY777
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:57 pm

which a/c type would LY use for these flights?

[Edited 2007-11-14 10:58:24]
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
andessmf
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:25 pm

What about the LatAm market for Christian pilgrims wanting to visit the Holy Sites?

I would think that this market could be huge.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:18 am

I would love to see TLV-EZE nonstop. That would be one hell of a long flight though, clocking at 16-17 hours but the 777 has the legs to do it.
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:38 am

EL AL can fly the 767200ER from TLV-GIG or TLV-GRU

TLV (32°00'41"N 34°53'12"E) GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) 245° (SW) 5723 nm

TLV (32°00'41"N 34°53'12"E) GIG (22°48'32"S 43°14'37"W) 244° (SW) 5553 nm

and then codeshare with GOL or TAM with flight to EZE and other parts of South America.
 
IAD380
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:12 pm



Quoting Jfk787nyc (Reply 23):
EL AL can fly the 767200ER from TLV-GIG or TLV-GRU

Nonstop?
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:24 pm



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 24):
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States, joined May 2006, 419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted Thu Nov 15 2007 09:12:19 your local time (1 hour 11 minutes 11 secs ago) and read 32 times: Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Jfk787nyc (Reply 23):
EL AL can fly the 767200ER from TLV-GIG or TLV-GRU

Nonstop?

Yes Non-Stop once weekly? They can't do it?
 
gte439u
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:27 pm



Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 25):
Quoting IAD380 (Reply 24):
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States, joined May 2006, 419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted Thu Nov 15 2007 09:12:19 your local time (1 hour 11 minutes 11 secs ago) and read 32 times: Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Jfk787nyc (Reply 23):
EL AL can fly the 767200ER from TLV-GIG or TLV-GRU

Nonstop?

Yes Non-Stop once weekly? They can't do it?

El Al does not have the right to overfly many Muslim countries - including African nations on a direct path from TLV to GRU/GIG. Of course, a detour is possible.
 
IAD380
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RE: EL AL Wants Grow Its Presence In LatAm

Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:20 pm



Quoting Gte439u (Reply 26):
Yes Non-Stop once weekly? They can't do it?

My question is whether the 767-200ER can fly nonstop between TLV and GIG in both directions. If the answer is yes, LY may want to consider flying TLV-GIG-EZE two or three times a week. Of course, a 777 or 787 would be better for such a long trip.

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