Northwest Pilot Hiring

ExpressJet_ERJ · Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:34 pm

Does anyone have any information on the hiring of pilots at NWA? What times are competitive right now? Thank you!

Airstud · Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:56 pm

I think you need to be able to prove that you are capable of confusing Brussels with Munich.

juventus · Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):
I think you need to be able to prove that you are capable of confusing Brussels with Munich.

ouch......

Go to airlinepilotcentral.com When it comes to that kind of stuff, there's more info there than here.

Airstud · Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:46 am

Well, it happened, didn't it?

However, perhaps it's not fair to take that out on ExpressJet_ERJ.

But, why NWA? Were I to become a pilot (should I suddenly wake up one morning fifteen years younger and with eyesight) I would want to be with either AA, for it has the most respectable, revere-able, no-frills logo, or SA at least back when they flew 747's. So proud I was of our American birdies making that epic JFK-JNB journey....

[Edited 2007-11-13 17:01:29]

centrair · Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
But, why NWA?

NW was hiring for Compass and those pilots after 30 months (I think) could be inline to go up to Mainline.

NW seems to have plan that we A.netters have yet to discover. But to me I think it is turning Mainline into a carrier that does anything over a certain time while Compass handles a lot of domestic flights within the EMB range and Mesaba does the milk runs. Three companies, little to no overlap, three pay scales with opportunity to go up to the big boys.

But think about it from the fun of flying.
Saabs, CRJ-200, -900, EMBs, DC-9s, A320s, 757s, A330s, 744s and son 787s?
Not to mention that NW was rumored to be one of the original C-series customers...so that is yet another aircraft.
There are the A.net rumors of what NW will do next in the widebody category...A350, 773, 748i, or A380.

Wow!

Too bad the management isn't as cool. However I do sometimes that Steenland was in the original line-up of Supertramp.

ExpressJet_ERJ · Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:26 am

I live in STL the best commute for me would be MSP. NWA seems stable, they seem stable as any other major and my home town airline (TWA) is no longer. Thats why I would like to be at NWA.

LAXspotter · Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:39 am

your best bet in Airlinepilotcentral.com

Sean-SAN- · Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:31 am

The current contract for domestic pilots is only marginally better than most regionals. The workforce is demoralized, and if you want to fly A330/B744 you can plan to wait 10+ years just to hold first officer. First officer pay doesn't go any higher than what most regional captains will make. Add to that, their top 3 bases are MSP/MEM/DTW, and unless you really love the midwest, those bases really suck. There are other companies hiring right now that are much more desirable than NW.

lobster · Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):
I think you need to be able to prove that you are capable of confusing Brussels with Munich.

When did that happen?

SNCNtry32 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting SAN-" class=quote target=_blank>Sean-SAN- (Reply 7):
Add to that, their top 3 bases are MSP/MEM/DTW, and unless you really love the midwest, those bases really suck.

I believe he plans on commuting from STL.

Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Reply 5):
NWA seems stable

I think he is going after stability.

IMHO, ExpressJet_ERJ loves flying and great pay is just icing on the cake... Hes going after more of stability and convince of domiciles for commuting. Not flying the A330 or the 747 Sean-SAN-

777STL · Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 9):
IMHO, ExpressJet_ERJ loves flying and great pay is just icing on the cake..

Great pay? Not knocking what ExpressJet does, but FO pay at a regional airline is notorious for being less than adequate.

SNCNtry32 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 10):
Great pay? Not knocking what ExpressJet does, but FO pay at a regional airline is notorious for being less than adequate.

Good point, so anything would be an upgrade from what he is doing.

Good luck with the process ExpressJet

PGNCS · Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 7):
The current contract for domestic pilots is only marginally better than most regionals.

Oh, PLEASE prove this to us.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 7):
if you want to fly A330/B744 you can plan to wait 10+ years just to hold first officer

Like most places, in other words.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 7):
Add to that, their top 3 bases are MSP/MEM/DTW, and unless you really love the midwest, those bases really suck.

Yes, and? He lives in STL, so he must not hate the midwest. There is more to the country than the coasts, and some of us actually enjoy being able to afford a nice home on a pilot's salary. Some even (gasp) think Connecticut really sucks.

lobster · Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 7):
nd unless you really love the midwest, those bases really suck.

Hey, thanks for letting me know my home sucks. Yeah sure

SNCNtry32 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Lobster (Reply 13):
Hey, thanks for letting me know my home sucks.

No kidding...

I find the Minneapolis area pleasant, there are nice parts of Detroit too and there are ample nice areas in Memphis...

ExpressJet_ERJ · Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:43 am

Im a regional (not expressjet) captain. Im 25 years old. I dont want to spend 35-40 more years here. This is all cyclical (sp?) I know they are at their low at NWA now. It will get better I hope. I hope to commute from STL, I've never commuted, we will see how it goes, if I get hired.

asuflyer05 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
if you want to fly A330/B744 you can plan to wait 10+ years just to hold first officer

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
Like most places, in other words.

Delta has been putting new hires into the 767ER FO position out of JFK and ATL. A year or so ago (?) CO had new hires going to 777 FO EWR.

727forever · Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 16):
Delta has been putting new hires into the 767ER FO position out of JFK and ATL. A year or so ago (?) CO had new hires going to 777 FO EWR.

Not to mention that the first year pay at DL is 60% higher than NW and goes up sharply in the second year. Go to NW if that is really where you want to be but do your homework to make sure that it is where you really want to be. Morale is horribly low, the DC-9s will eventually (this is not permission to start a NW DC-9 thread) go away and will be replaced by RJ's leading to possible furlough of mainline drivers. I believe NW is also extreme merger bait for someone. Their post bankrupsy business plan is not working out. Be careful.

727forever

burnsie28 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
Well, it happened, didn't it?

No since NW never served Munich. But close, right country, and it was a mistake all around... funny that ATC gave them directions, then Brussels continued to clear them to land.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
would want to be with either AA, for it has the most respectable, revere-able, no-frills logo,

Yes because a job is all about the logo.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 7):
The current contract for domestic pilots is only marginally better than most regionals

'
$40,000 more a year?

I say go for it, the pilots got a lot back and it seems to be getting better, plus they are actually trying to do stuff for employees.

centrair · Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting 727forever (Reply 17):
Their post bankrupsy business plan is not working out. Be careful.

Really? We barely can understand what they are doing. I think their plan is going to work. NW would also be a far more expensive buy than anyone else. That being said, I am keeping my merger comments in thoe threads.

NW is hiring 250-350 pilots in the next 12 months.

Quoting 727forever (Reply 17):
go away and will be replaced by RJ's

No, they will be replaced with the C-series (DC-9s until 2012, C-series from 2013) and new EMBs. There has to be a reason for all the options they have with both companies.

Plus they have options for Boeing aircraft. I think we might just be surprised by what NW might do.

cv640 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:58 am

There is a lot of uncertainity in this industry. Your always taking a chance with going to any airline. I start at NWA soon and I'm very excited and hopeful. When I was at the interview the people at the training department seemed very upbeat. Yes, widebody there takes forever, their work rules are significantly better then the narrowbody, but I prefer the shorter flights. They are also growing internationally, so there will be movement for those who want to do that stuff. Delta has new hires in the wide bodies due to the large amount of growth with their international expansion. That plus most new of their pilots do not want to fly out of NY.

As for their hubs, all those cities have some very nice areas. I live in DTW, so perefct for me. I always laugh when everyone downs them, but they've never actually visited.

bobnwa · Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting 727forever (Reply 17):
I believe NW is also extreme merger bait for someone. Their post bankrupsy business plan is not working out. Be careful.

Hasn't NWA been reporting higher profits than DL.US,CO,WN,AA post bankruptcy? That seems like a fairly good business plan to me. What part of their business plan post bankruptcy do you find fault with?

bobnwa · Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:56 pm

Quoting 727forever (Reply 17):
Not to mention that the first year pay at DL is 60% higher than NW and goes up sharply in the second year

A new FO for DL on a MD-88 earns $49 an hour. A new FO for NW on a DC-9 earns $30 an hour.
A second year FO on DL MD-88 earns $75 an hour. a second year FO for NW DC-9 earns $63 an hour.
A fifth year FO on DL MD-88 earns $84 an hour. A fifth year FO for NW DC-9 earns $84 an hour.
A fifth year FO on DL 737 earns $92 an hour. A fifth year FO for NW 320 earns $92 an hour.

Where are you getting 60% higher and going up sharply numbers from? Mine come from Pilot Central. Is this a return to fuzzy math?

bucky707 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:08 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
Where are you getting 60% higher and going up sharply numbers from? Mine come from Pilot Central. Is this a return to fuzzy math?

well,do the math. 49 is approximately 60% higher than 30. And a raise from 49 to 75 could certainly be called a sharp increase.

By the way, according to airlinepilotcentral.com your numbersfor NW pay are wrong.

[Edited 2007-11-14 05:15:27]

777STL · Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Reply 15):
Im a regional (not expressjet) captain. Im 25 years old. I dont want to spend 35-40 more years here. This is all cyclical (sp?) I know they are at their low at NWA now. It will get better I hope. I hope to commute from STL, I've never commuted, we will see how it goes, if I get hired.

So you fly for Chataqua right? Are you flying for American Concoction then? What about waiting around a year or two until AA needs to start hiring new pilots? That would probably give you much more flexibility in terms of domiciles and eventual upgrade opportunities.

I'd just be leary of NWA, they seem like take-over bait to me.

727forever · Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:51 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
A new FO for DL on a MD-88 earns $49 an hour. A new FO for NW on a DC-9 earns $30 an hour.
A second year FO on DL MD-88 earns $75 an hour. a second year FO for NW DC-9 earns $63 an hour.
A fifth year FO on DL MD-88 earns $84 an hour. A fifth year FO for NW DC-9 earns $84 an hour.
A fifth year FO on DL 737 earns $92 an hour. A fifth year FO for NW 320 earns $92 an hour.

Hi Bob.

No fuzzy math here. You are assuming that a DL new hire will have to start on the MD88. Some are getting it, but the majority are not. The breakdown on the last 3 classes are Oct 15 class, 4 MD88 and 20 767; Oct 29 class, 21 MD88 and 3 767, Nov 12 class, 24 767. Look at second year pay on the 767 at DL vs. second year on the NW DC-9 and that is where I get my "goes up sharply from there" statement. DL new hires are not locked into their initial equipment so if they want the $$$$ from the 767 they can go get it.

Isn't this C Jet just another RJ? Oh wait, that thing has yet to see the light of day.

Also, I am not slamming NW. Great airline but they do have problems. I'm just telling ExpressJet_ERJ to think real hard about it. He should make sure that he really wants to be there and to make sure that he really wants to fly with a pilot group of people like yourself for low wages before applying.

727forever

KingAir200 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:44 pm

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 7):
Add to that, their top 3 bases are MSP/MEM/DTW, and unless you really love the midwest, those bases really suck.

When you are a pilot, you don't have to live where your trips start and end... You could live in LA if you wanted to and fly the DC-9 out of MSP. Besides, if you do want to live near where you work, there are plenty of nice places in the Midwest. And if you don't, it's not as if every layover you'll have is in MSP, DTW, or MEM. NWA flies to the same cities as everybody else and has layovers there just like anybody else.

ExpressJet_ERJ · Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:15 pm

Yes I fly for AAC Chautauqua. I appreciate all the info guys. This probably sounds stupid but DL doesnt fly the 744. As I said before I am going to be at my next carrier for 30+ years I want it to be where I want to be. Your pay comparison is great, but DL wont touch many people that are not ex military. Also NWA has a TA our there right now that is 150% pay for any flight time over 80 hrs. That will add up fast. My plan is NWA, DC9 for 1-2 years then hopefully right seat of the 757 or the 787 for a while. I just think NWA has a few more good things coming to them as they get the 787s, DL however is very good at changing their paint schemes Smile

.

PGNCS · Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:56 pm

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 16):
Delta has been putting new hires into the 767ER FO position out of JFK and ATL. A year or so ago (?) CO had new hires going to 777 FO EWR.

But what was the seniority a year before that? Those categories went very junior recently largely because people don't want to be based in the NYC area due to the high cost of living, or don't want to be on reserve forever, among other reasons. I know you are a "future pilot" according to your profile, but this is one area where people actually in the industry know what they are talking about.

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 14):
Hey, thanks for letting me know my home sucks.

No kidding...

I find the Minneapolis area pleasant, there are nice parts of Detroit too and there are ample nice areas in Memphis...

Ditto. Like I said, lots of people want to stay out of the coastal states for a variety of reasons, the cost of living being high among them.

Quoting Cv640 (Reply 20):
There is a lot of uncertainity in this industry. Your always taking a chance with going to any airline. I start at NWA soon and I'm very excited and hopeful. When I was at the interview the people at the training department seemed very upbeat.

Congrats, and good luck. You will find that NWA has an excellent training department, and probably the best books in the industry. They have excellent procedures that are far better than many of their competitors. I wish you a happy career.

Quoting 727forever (Reply 25):
No fuzzy math here. You are assuming that a DL new hire will have to start on the MD88. Some are getting it, but the majority are not. The breakdown on the last 3 classes are Oct 15 class, 4 MD88 and 20 767; Oct 29 class, 21 MD88 and 3 767, Nov 12 class, 24 767. Look at second year pay on the 767 at DL vs. second year on the NW DC-9 and that is where I get my "goes up sharply from there" statement. DL new hires are not locked into their initial equipment so if they want the $$$$ from the 767 they can go get it.

And new hires that go to widebodies will be on reserve for YEARS getting paid the reserve guarantee, often making less than year two narrowbody FO's who are lineholders with FAR better schedules. The bigger airplane does NOT always make for the bigger paycheck. I stayed senior on a small piece of equipment for years at my carrier and frequently got paid more than my seniors in bigger aircraft as I had my choice of trips, could pick up to the max if I wanted and had every holiday and weekend off. It isn't as simple as you are painting it.

Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Reply 27):
Your pay comparison is great, but DL wont touch many people that are not ex military.

Actually that used to be true, but Delta is now hiring many civilian new-hires. Having said that, most people go with the first major that hires them and stay there (unless you are fortunate enough to have multiple offers). Northwest would be an excellent fit for you, and I hope you get your wish! Smile

apodino · Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Reply 27):
Your pay comparison is great, but DL wont touch many people that are not ex military.

That may have been true in the past, but I don't think its necessarily true anymore. My company just had a pilot (Who is a very hot female pilot), fly her last trip last night before she goes to fly for Delta. And I don't think she was ever in the military. There just aren't the pool of pilots coming from the military that there were in the past, and on top of that, the pilot pool is shrinking big time. I heard that CO is so short on pilots in that IAH base, that they are sending 777 crews from EWR down to IAH just to fly some of the international trips. And I heard this straight from a CO pilot.

burnsie28 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Reply 27):
My plan is NWA, DC9 for 1-2 years then hopefully right seat of the 757 or the 787 for a while

It may change in a while, but I know a DC-9 captain, was hired in 1989 can't even hold the right seat of 747, and barely holds an A330 right seat. Just in the past two months he is now able to hold an A319/A320 in the left seat. However, movement might start changing again, guess its a wait and see.

cv640 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:35 pm

Movement will pick up shortly, first time hiring in over 6 years. Having said that, I doubt 2 years into a wide body at NWA is possible, never know. From what I've heard, the reason for the international 767 at Delta and CO 777 is due to not many people to live in NYC and not wanting to do reserve for years. Everyone has their own priorities. If someone lived in NY doing reserve international would be great, commuting in to do it though would get old fast. I'd prefer to live in base and only have a 20 minute commute to work, but others seem to not mine a commute. Good luck to you what ever your decision is.

As for times, in my interview group everyone had over 8000 hours, but I've heard they are mixing it up now. Supposedly they are looking for a mix in the classes, not sure if this is true, just a rumor a crew told me.

KaiGywer · Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 14):
I find the Minneapolis area pleasant

So do I, just too bad it's so cold.... cold

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 14):
there are nice parts of Detroit too

There are?! duck

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 26):
You could live in LA if you wanted to and fly the DC-9 out of MSP.

Haha, one guy I work with commutes from SAN to MSP to work the ramp. Nobody knows why the hell he does it, but each to his own I guess.

bucky707 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:53 pm

Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Reply 27):
Your pay comparison is great, but DL wont touch many people that are not ex military.

absolutely not true. Most of Delta's new hires these days come from the regionals. Most classes are running about 65% civilian background.

ExpressJet_ERJ · Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:34 pm

Mos tof the DL new hires are current FOs at regionals now, I dont know why they are doing that. But anyways I'm gonna stay pushing for NWA for a while!

highflyer9790 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:56 pm

Im just wondering, Is it common for newhires to be placed on wide bodies and red-eye international routes? if so, are they given a choice of equipment at the base they are asaigned if a choice is available?

bucky707 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Reply 34):
Mos tof the DL new hires are current FOs at regionals now,

while I think there have been a few regional FOs hired by Delta, the vast, vast majority of new hires coming from the regionals are Captains. Many have been Line Check Airman at their airline.

AA777ER · Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):

Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):
Airstud From United States, joined Nov 2000, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted Tue Nov 13 2007 17:56:40 your local time (22 hours 14 minutes ago) and read 1800 times:

I think you need to be able to prove that you are capable of confusing Brussels with Munich.

And YOU guys should be capable of running an Airline........................

Like a fuel hedge and buying fuel Eff AC like SWA and not crying to a BK Judge to rape labor !!!!!!!!!!!

bok269 · Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
I would want to be with either SA)">AA, for it has the most respectable, revere-able, no-frills logo, or SA at least back when they flew 747's. So proud I was of our American birdies making that epic JFK-JNB journey

SA)">AA isn't hiring and won't be until the Furlough and TW callbacks are complete. Then you get into AE flow-through. It will be a while before SA)">AA hires off the street.

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