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gr8slvrflt
Topic Author
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AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:08 pm

Looks like MCO, TPA & DAB will get new or increased service to LGA (for the season, at least):

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/bus...ation/2007/11/airtran-will-bo.html
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:04 pm

They should do well. Does anyone else fly these routes besides B6? I don't think anyone is on DAB-LGA. Continental does DAB-EWR.
 
SJBOEING
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:08 pm

B6 flies LGAMCO but does not do LGATPA.
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:14 pm

Being a relatively new airline, and as hard as its has been for Airtran (or any carrier) to obtain LGA slots, how did B6 get their LGA slots?

[Edited 2007-11-14 07:15:32]
 
deltairlines
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:26 pm



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 1):
Does anyone else fly these routes besides B6?

Delta does LGA-MCO (3x M80) and LGA-TPA (2x M80).
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:29 pm



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 3):
Being a relatively new airline, and as hard as its has been for Airtran (or any carrier) to obtain LGA slots, how did B6 get their LGA slots?

IIRC, any new entrant can request slots at LGA and receive up to 10 (5 roundtrips) and in most cases the DOT will comply (of course you still have to find gate/counter space). However, once you have more than that minimal number of slots, you are on your own to find more. Things may have changed recently given the congestion at LGA and I'm doubting the DOT will create any more new entrant slots.
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:35 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
IIRC, any new entrant can request slots at LGA and receive up to 10 (5 roundtrips) and in most cases the DOT will comply (of course you still have to find gate/counter space).

Is that how Airtran obtained their original LGA slots years ago?
 
ramerinianair
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:25 pm

DL has a direct flight DAB-JFK but is makes one stop in ATL . . . same aircraft and flight number but a stop in ATL.
SR
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CitrusCritter
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:49 pm

Didn't FL get some of those slots off of TW?
- CitrusCritter
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AA787
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:58 pm

AA also operates LGA- MCO and LGA- TPA.
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:02 pm



Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 8):
Didn't FL get some of those slots off of TW?

I think American kept those. TWA did have some LGA slots on long term lease to Delta back in the late 90s. Not sure what happened to those, but if the leases expired, I'd bet AA took them back.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:04 pm



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 1):
They should do well. Does anyone else fly these routes besides B6? I don't think anyone is on DAB-LGA. Continental does DAB-EWR.

DL seasonally ran DAB-LGA last year and will again this year. They will operate the flight two weeks around Christmas and a few flights around Presidents Day/Daytona 500.

They do the same for SRQ and MLB.
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:18 pm

AirTran's current schedule at LGA is: 11x ATL, 2x CAK, 2x PHF. Weekend-only flight to MCO.

Slots at LGA are a rare commodity. If this article is correct, and FL is using them for 1x additl MCO, 1x DAB, and 1x TPA, two possibilities come to mind.

One is that they might be beefing up Florida capacity for seasonal winter demand. Perhaps in the spring they will use these rare slots at this top business-market airport to try to build business demand elsewhere--say by starting a couple of DAY-LGA dailies and maybe restoring the third flight on either PHF-LGA or CAK-LGA. AirTran could try to develop themselves further beyond emphasis just on low-yield Florida traffic and local ATL demand.

Or, this could just be another example of AirTran's apparently "Allegiantizing" strategy of the past couple of years--just put additional capacity into sun-seeker traffic--in this case Florida. FL hasn't give more business-oriented routes, like MDW-EWR, ROC-BOS, or a DFW focus operation, sufficient time and money to develop. They haven't used their more business-oriented product to make something more of themselves--and strengthen their stock value by getting more regional point-to-point traffic and thus diversifying. Not like there's precedent for the financial value of such a strategy, in, say, the experience of Southwest.

Unfortunately, my money's on the second possibility. Time will tell.

Jim
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SJBOEING
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:44 pm

What does everyone think of FL possibly doing LGAMKE if in fact there is a seasonal pulldown here?
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:46 pm

I am kind of let down by this actually. IMHO, exactly what we DON'T need is another carrier offering NYC-Florida service. I must say that DAB, is very interesting, although from a yield standpoint I am not sure that it is the best use of a coveted LGA slot. I would have tried markets like MDW, MSP, IND, DAY, or MKE. It just seems kind of stupid that with new slots to the preferred O&D airport serving probably the highest yielding market in the world, the best FL could come up with is a few Florida nonstops, which may I add, are already overserved by Low Cost carriers with far superior coach products.
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:48 pm

The schedules are loaded into airtran.com so you can see what they are planning. This is great news for DAB.
The voice of moderation
 
flyinryan99
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:15 pm



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 12):

I totally agree with your post. I think they are just "holding" the slots by throwing them on routes they will bring in the revenue until they really decide what to do with them. My question is, are they going to shift them back and forth during the "peak seasons" or not? They just don't seem to want to invest in things now in order to see a good return later (lose money now in order to make money later).

The other question I have is what midwestern airports do they want to deploy to? Are they going to fly multiple trips or just 1 round trip a day to a few different cities. I definitely don't think they'll fly FNT-LGA as they would be going up against both Eagle and Northwest and northwest could easily reallocate slots to FNT and add more flights. DAY looks like it could do 2 daily round trips as there are currently 3x CRJ and 1x ERJ to LGA and 3x ERJ to EWR. With the great following in DAY as they have, they could easily do 2x daily round trip. I don't know if they'd get CAK back to 3 flights or not as they have quietly taken CAK-BOS back to 1 daily round trip. I think their 2x dailies to LGA is sufficient. Do they want to continue to fight YX in MKE and run 3 daily round trips? Or would they rather run 1 daily round trip to places like MLI and BMI or what? I think if they start like MLI or BMI they will pull it in the winter to return the LGA-Florida routes. I'm kind of curious to see what they have in mind.
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:27 pm



Quoting SJBOEING (Reply 13):
What does everyone think of FL possibly doing LGAMKE if in fact there is a seasonal pulldown here?

I would think MKE is a very strong possibility. Remember, they just added 2 more gates up there as well.

On second thought, forget "very strong possibility", I'd call it a lock.
 
MKENut
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:54 pm



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 17):
I would think MKE is a very strong possibility. Remember, they just added 2 more gates up there as well.

On second thought, forget "very strong possibility", I'd call it a lock.

I think you are right. FL wants to compete with YX on their most profitable routes. During the hostile take over attempt FL has identified one profitable route as MKE - LGA. I think NWA tried to compete on this very same route before they went into bankruptcy. NWA had low fares but horrible loads IIRC.
 
gr8slvrflt
Topic Author
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:36 pm

Or the slots could be moved to MSP after the Sun Country merger.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
quickmover
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:53 pm



Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 19):
Or the slots could be moved to MSP after the Sun Country merger.

Great idea.
 
WDBRR
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 am

Where did these slots come from? Spirit? ATA?
 
panam330
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:05 am



Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 14):
I must say that DAB, is very interesting, although from a yield standpoint I am not sure that it is the best use of a coveted LGA slot.

DAB has yields far above those of MCO, due to very little competition. Other than when FL first came to DAB, airfares are easily $75-$200 above the same city pairs out of MCO or JAX. The LGA flight should do quite well, provided they advertise in the DAB area.
 
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MKE22
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:19 am



Quoting MKENut (Thread starter):
Quoting Quickmover (Reply 17):
I would think MKE is a very strong possibility. Remember, they just added 2 more gates up there as well.

On second thought, forget "very strong possibility", I'd call it a lock.

I think you are right. FL wants to compete with YX on their most profitable routes. During the hostile take over attempt FL has identified one profitable route as MKE - LGA. I think NWA tried to compete on this very same route before they went into bankruptcy. NWA had low fares but horrible loads IIRC.

FL used a slot for service between DAB and LGA. Might not be a "lock" anymore.  Sad
 
BooDog
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:56 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 3):
Being a relatively new airline, and as hard as its has been for Airtran (or any carrier) to obtain LGA slots, how did B6 get their LGA slots?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
IIRC, any new entrant can request slots at LGA and receive up to 10 (5 roundtrips) and in most cases the DOT will comply (of course you still have to find gate/counter space). However, once you have more than that minimal number of slots, you are on your own to find more. Things may have changed recently given the congestion at LGA and I'm doubting the DOT will create any more new entrant slots.

We got to get some definitions straight to avoid confusion...

FAA-assigned slot: Owned by the airline. If you don't use your slot, you can sell it/lease it.
Slot exemption: Granted to an airline by the airport; If you don't use your exemption, you lose it. you cannot sell it/lease it.

B6 has 75 slot exemptions for the JFK 3 p.m.-8 p.m. rush hour. Even though they use them all (I think...) they can't sell it to another airline. B6 also received slot exemptions for LGA. New airlines to LGA have been awarded "slot exemptions."

JetBlue does an excellent write-up about slot controls (especially LGB) in every Annual Report.

[Edited 2007-11-18 03:05:03]
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MKE22
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RE: AirTran's Additional LGA Slots

Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:23 pm

Does anyone think there is a chance B6 could still come into MKE? What would this mean for FL and YX, and would WN maybe take a harder look into coming to MKE if B6 enters the market?

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