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hoya
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Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:52 pm

From Yahoo News:

FRANKFURT (AFP) - Germany has accepted the transfer of Lufthansa Cargo's central Asian hub from Kazakhstan to Siberia, bowing to pressure from Moscow after it blocked the carrier from flying over Russian territory.

"Discussions with the Russian transport ministry continue. At this time, it is above all a question of a timetable for the transfer of Lufthansa Cargo towards the Russian airport of Krasnoyarsk," Transport Minister Wolfgang Tiefensee said Friday in a statement.

The announcement signalled a possible end to a dispute that had seen Lufthansa cargo planes forced to make a costly detour around Russian airspace en route to the group's current Asian refueling and distribution point at Astana, Kazakhstan.


Rest of the story can be found here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071102...euairlinetradecompany_071102191523

Can't believe the Germans have bowed under pressure to Russia. Why is everyone so afraid to stand-up to them? I wonder how happy LH is about this agreement.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
PRGLY
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:57 pm

Russians are recently jumping too high. It will be once big bang for them when they will fall down. and I am sure they will.....
just fly - it is nice
 
kaitak
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:59 pm



Quoting Hoya (Thread starter):
Can't believe the Germans have bowed under pressure to Russia. Why is everyone so afraid to stand-up to them? I wonder how happy LH is about this agreement.

It is very disappointing and clear bullying on the part of the Russians; fly to our airport, or we won't let you fly over our territory. I'm sure Lufty isn't that happy, but what can they do; if they didn't relent, they could ultimately be hit by other costs; think of the number of LH flights that need to fly over Russian territory - to Japan, Korea, China, even SE Asia and India ... the Russians were always going to win this. Sad to say, but mightski is rightski.
 
wilco737
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:59 pm

 biting   box   covereyes   cry   faint 


I am looking forward to my first flights to lovely Krasnojarsk  Sad  Sad

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
DALCE
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:16 pm

I can't believe that LH / Germany is accepting this piece of arrogance from Russia!
What does LCAG need to do in Krasnojarsk........
I was convinced that Frau Merkel was a tough politician, but this is a major sign of weakness!
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
andessmf
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:27 pm



Quoting Hoya (Thread starter):
Why is everyone so afraid to stand-up to them?

The Western World needs to get its balls back.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:28 pm

So much for LH refusing to bow down to Putin...  Yeah sure
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:35 pm



Quoting Hoya (Thread starter):
Germany has accepted the transfer of Lufthansa Cargo's central Asian hub from Kazakhstan to Siberia, bowing to pressure from Moscow after it blocked the carrier from flying over Russian territory

And when does the EU move its testicles and sovereignty to Russia?  Yeah sure
I don't take responsibility at all
 
wilco737
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:35 pm

Oh and the weather there is SO LOVELY Big grin

UNKL 141900Z 00000MPS CAVOK M19/M21 Q1025 NOSIG RMK QFE743 29////50

UNKL 141645Z 141818 VRB02MPS 2000 BR NSC
TEMPO 1824 0500 FG VV002
TEMPO 0004 0300 FG VV002


I can't wait to fly there  white   scared 

Thanks to Germany! I need to leave this country... it's weird here....

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane  on my way to UNKL
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:37 pm

I am shocked and disappointed.

I am sure this wasn't a Lufthansa decision. They must be cringing.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
wilco737
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:39 pm



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 9):
I am sure this wasn't a Lufthansa decision.

No it wasn't! Not at all!!!! We got forced by the russian and German Government...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane  still on my way to UNKL
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:42 pm

Germany has a great minister for Transport- he should be sent to Siberia helping to build the airport-shelters ...
He's a qualified a.hole -sorry but that's what it boils down to !

also see this thread.. New Russia-Germany Air Incident... (by Beaucaire Nov 14 2007 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2007-11-14 11:43:29]
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
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c172akula
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:55 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 8):
Oh and the weather there is SO LOVELY

UNKL 141900Z 00000MPS CAVOK M19/M21 Q1025 NOSIG RMK QFE743 29////50

UNKL 141645Z 141818 VRB02MPS 2000 BR NSC
TEMPO 1824 0500 FG VV002
TEMPO 0004 0300 FG VV002

That will just help you keep the rust off! Big grin
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:59 pm

Interesting that a minister accepts on behalf of private carrier its move to a new location. Probably Mr. Tiefensee needs to look up what he CAN do and what he CAN´T do. He certainly cannot move a company in a foreign territory against its will. I don´t think that this is the end of this saga. Let´s see what Lufthansa will say to this...
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
wilco737
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:00 pm



Quoting C172Akula (Reply 12):
That will just help you keep the rust off! Big grin

yeah, guess so... and friggin cold... So my suitcase will be double the size because of all the pullover and jackets and boots Big grin

Maybe I am gone from LH Cargo when we start flying there.... Who knows...

Does anybody know which airline hire Pilots at the moment Big grin

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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blueflyer
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:01 pm

How does the German transport ministry get to tell Lufthansa Cargo where its hub is going to anyhow ? I'm guessing it's not legally entitled to do so, so it's more a matter of the ministry refusing to support a German company in its dispute with a foreign government... Makes you wonder why Lufthansa bothers to pay corporate taxes.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:07 pm



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 15):
How does the German transport ministry get to tell Lufthansa Cargo where its hub is going to anyhow ?

They cannot. The German government has absolutely no stake (much less a controlling stake) in Deutsche Lufthansa AG. Legally, they can only dictate the policy, both transportation and company wise, to which the LH Group, along with other German airlines and airlines operating into Germany, has to adhere. LH only bowed down because in the end, they had no other choice (fuel prices are already at an all time high, so the whole thing with fuelcosts may have been a driver for this decision, along with on-time performance, which was affected from the overflight ban), but I still hope, even though my hopes on that are pretty low at the moment, that eventually LH will force an end to this entire farce.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
NYC777
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:08 pm

well it looks like we're slowing heading back into the good ole Cold War days except political ideology is being replaced by economic one-upmanship.

It is unbelieveable that Germany knuckled under pressure to Russia but if oil came down to more sane levels I wonder how much power Russia will then be able to wield.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:28 pm

WTBF? This can't be true ... simply mortifying.
 
Mir
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:40 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 8):
on my way to UNKL

Are you crying uncle just because of a little cold?  Smile

That's going to suck. Bring your parka.  cold 

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:42 pm

I reiterate my sincere disappointment.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 17):
It is unbelieveable that Germany knuckled under pressure to Russia but if oil came down to more sane levels I wonder how much power Russia will then be able to wield.

 checkmark   Angry  Angry
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:45 pm



Quoting Hoya (Thread starter):
Can't believe the Germans have bowed under pressure to Russia. Why is everyone so afraid to stand-up to them? I wonder how happy LH is about this agreement.

I can't believe this either!  gnasher 

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 15):
How does the German transport ministry get to tell Lufthansa Cargo where its hub is going to anyhow ? I'm guessing it's not legally entitled to do so, so it's more a matter of the ministry refusing to support a German company in its dispute with a foreign government... Makes you wonder why Lufthansa bothers to pay corporate taxes.

I can only guess that the government told LH that they will be on their own and the government is not willing to go for a confrontation with Russia over LH.
The question though is in how far the other EU countries would have backed Germany if it would have come to a crunch. While it is almost impossible avoiding Russian airspace when flying from Europe to East Asia, it would be relatively easy for Russian airline to bypass the much smaller Germany to other destinations in Europe. A fly-over ban for Russian aircraft would have only worked if the whole EU would have stood together. I assume though that the other countries decided that it is not worth to risk their own business interests in Russia to help LH.
Now Russia has made the biggest EU country bend over, let's see who is next.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
burnsie28
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:49 pm

Pretty pathetic that a country would do this so that they basically force a company to move their operations to their country.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:58 pm



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 13):
Interesting that a minister accepts on behalf of private carrier its move to a new location. Probably Mr. Tiefensee needs to look up what he CAN do and what he CAN´T do. He certainly cannot move a company in a foreign territory against its will. I don´t think that this is the end of this saga. Let´s see what Lufthansa will say to this...

 checkmark  so far LH hasn't agreed to anything.
 
hloutweg
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:03 pm



Quoting Hoya (Thread starter):
Can't believe the Germans have bowed under pressure to Russia. Why is everyone so afraid to stand-up to them? I wonder how happy LH is about this agreement.

I makes sense to bow to the Russian's request than to fly around this gigantic country. Money talks. Besides, what are you gonna do, declare war on them for not letting you into their air space?
In Varietate Concordia
 
hoya
Topic Author
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:21 pm



Quoting Hloutweg (Reply 24):
I makes sense to bow to the Russian's request than to fly around this gigantic country. Money talks. Besides, what are you gonna do, declare war on them for not letting you into their air space?

You return the favor, unfortunately the EU is too fragmented. The Russians have shown great diplomatic skill in dividing the EU. I'm sure if Russian airliners were banned over the entire EU, the Russian government would have backed down.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
PanHAM
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:12 pm



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 23):
so far LH hasn't agreed to anything.

exactrly. I have not seen a statement from LCAG that they transfer their hub from TSE to KJA or anywhere else.

Mr Tiefensee or anybody else in the Government cannot tell LH anything as long as they operate according to the appiicable laws and rules set by the LBA. It is the Goivernments job to negotiate air agreements based on the international law. The location of a hub, The exercise of traffic rights or not, is LH's matter alone.

Meaning, the Government can negotiate an air agreement, where the Russians suggest KJA as a tech stop. For LH that is an option, not a requirement as long as they have other options. I believe that LH preferred Almaty over TSE, with the way things are going, Kasachstan might open up Almaty. That would by pass Russia all together, CV uses that route.

Anyway,m at the end of the day, LCAG will have to make a commercial decision which takes into account the interest of the parent LH in Russia as well. No emotions in there.

If the Russians carry on like that, we will have a lot of fun in the future. Sometimes I wish we had the iron curtain back.and the good old days of the cold war.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
airbazar
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:30 pm



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 15):
How does the German transport ministry get to tell Lufthansa Cargo where its hub is going to anyhow ?

The same way the US government decides which US airlines get to fly to China. It's not as free a World out there as most people assume it is.
 
FlyMeToTheMoon
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:09 am

I have been a frequent flyer on LH and I had every respect for them until this moment - money talks, profit is important and all that but bowing to the pressure of an autocratic regime for no good business reasons is simply disgusting. What follows next? A hub in Moscow and moving LH's HQ from Koln to St Petersburg. All that Russia deserves is not an LH cargo hub but a good beating for being a country with a c**py regime with imperialist notions and utterly uncivilized. But then so does China and look how much business we do with that authoritarian (read communist regime) in the name of profits. End of my LH travels since I stopped buying Chinese products a long time ago!

[Edited 2007-11-14 16:11:31]
Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
 
toering
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:15 am

This is extortion. I'm suprised that LH would allow this. This makes LH look silly. I thought Germans were tougher than that! IMO
 
doug_or
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:16 am



Quoting FlyMeToTheMoon (Reply 28):
End of my LH travels since I stopped buying Chinese products a long time ago!

Have you read any of te replies? The government has made te announcment and there is no evidence that LH has actauly agreed yet.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
magyar
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:29 am

Consider the bright side of it! When the Russian gov. has the leverage to bully around they do
it so obviously and arrogantly that it pisses off everybody. This may be the thing that the people
in the EU need to sort their issues out.

Beside the immediate retaliation may not be the most efficient. In this case, all the cards are
stacked against Germany/EU. Wait till the right time arrives, and in Russia's case it usually
does, then cash in the check+interest.
 
GECMD11
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:32 am



Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 30):
Have you read any of te replies? The government has made te announcment and there is no evidence that LH has actauly agreed yet.

so far everything is coming from the German gov't. I haven't read anything from LCAG as far as a statement lately .....Except that its not possible to move to Siberia because the airport is not up to standard.......

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 3):
I am looking forward to my first flights to lovely Krasnojarsk

gee i wonder what the crew hotel will be like in Krasnojarsk???  cold 
 
GECMD11
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:33 am

Germany agrees, what about LCAG? did they agree??
 
fridgmus
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:05 am

I'm really disheartened to hear about this. Why the hell can't the EU band together and stand against Russia? This will only lead to more concessions to Russia.

Come on Angela, suck it up! You can do better, you HAVE to do better! I would expect this from Jacques Chirac, but not you!
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
 
scrumpy492003
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:50 am

I would imagine, that for Political Reasons the decision was taken

AND

I would expect that LH will be compensated for whatever extra (however unreasonable) costs that they incurr.

Better politically to be still on talking terms rather than at "war".

It will resolve, and perhaps - though however vague - some good things just may come out of it!!

We'll see!

Peter
peter b95 c-ghfu
 
PanHAM
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:01 am



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 27):

The same way the US government decides which US airlines get to fly to China. It's not as free a World out there as most people assume it is

No comparison. The DoT negotiates with the Chinese a bi-lateral agreement and then takes in route applications and then licences the routes to the carrier capable servoing the route. The case we have here is that KJA may be a tech stop mentioned in a German/Russian bi-lateral agreement. However, if LCAG decides to ratrher make their tech stops in Ksachstan than Siberia, it is their free decision.

In that case, they have to overfly a small part of Russia on the way to Kasachstan. The first freedom right appliesand Russia has to grant such overflights uinconditionally.

. .

Quoting Magyar (Reply 31):
t so obviously and arrogantly that it pisses off everybody. This may be the thing that the people
in the EU need to sort their issues ou

Stop dreaming. You see the reaciions and the Flak I get for my contributions here where I critizise Russia. For some reason, many people seem to like tyranny more than freedom.

Quoting GECMD11 (Reply 32):

gee i wonder what the crew hotel will be like in Krasnojars

don't worry, they will always have lots of Vodka. With that, the plöace will look real nice.

Quoting GECMD11 (Reply 33):
Germany agrees, what about LCAG? did they agree??

No offical statement yet. LCAG will check out all their options, but as I said before, they have to make a sustainable decision at the end of the day. If "useful contributiuons" would still be tax deductible, there would not be an issue at all. The line of bueraucrats in Russia would have their € cash under the table and the stamps would fly on the permit. Now its a crime in Germany, as it should be in civilized countris and we see what happens when the civil affairs in this world are not harmonized yet.,
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:11 am



Quoting GECMD11 (Reply 33):
Germany agrees, what about LCAG? did they agree??

If they do, then think of it as if they were forced to do agree while someone held a gun to their heads.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 36):
The first freedom right appliesand Russia has to grant such overflights uinconditionally.

But as recent history has show (the LCAG issue, along with the sudden overflight right revokal of a GAF A310), Russia is pretty unpredictable in terms of applying the Freedoms of the Air.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
PanHAM
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:12 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 37):
But as recent history has show (the LCAG issue, along with the sudden overflight right revokal of a GAF A310), Russia is pretty unpredictable in terms of applying the Freedoms of the Air.

Sure, it is the same line. Opponents who build up an opposition party are put away in Siberia, critical Journalists are shot dead, delayed aircraft are forced to return because their permit "expired" (I am sure that this always have been tolerated before, the permit is tied to the flight number and a delay is a delay) and bi lateral treaties are not honored, or, , laid out to their favour, ignoring the rights of the company to chose their routing without interference,

All this is called "flawless democracy", at least by a former German chancellor.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
commavia
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:21 am

Yeah, it's pretty pathetic and disheartening that the Europeans caved to the Russo-bully Putin on this. I know Putin has Europe over a barrel (of oil, pretty much literally), but still, this is just sad.

If they had some backbone, they should have just revoked 100% of Russia's overflight rights over E.U. airspace, and raised the stakes a bit by revoking Russian landing rights in the E.U.

When are *some* people going to learn: when you just let somebody else take something from you, and do nothing back but help them carry it away, all it does is reinforce their reasoning for taking it in the first place, and encourage them to take some more!

It's certainly true that money talks, and we know who's talking loud and clear these days!
 
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SQ773
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:37 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 14):
Maybe I am gone from LH Cargo when we start flying there.... Who knows...

Does anybody know which airline hire Pilots at the moment

LCAG does not deserve from its workers such a comment, sorrry. I know LCAG better than you imagine and I do not think that is what LH Cargo would expect from an employee, and less on a public forum. Is is not about being critical, its about being constructive.

LCAG has nothing to do with this move, which is absolutely innecesary and unacceptable, its simply a blackmail. BUT such a comment on a public forum does not say much in your favour, although of course we all have the freedrom to give an opinion whenever and wherever we want, but for most of LCAG workers it might sound offensive, specially when it is known that LCAG is suffering a lack of pilots and other big issues that you might well know.

SQ773
 
Thorben
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:07 am

Sorry, but I doubt this. The report above is from Nov. 2nd. Current reports say nothing like that. Besides, Tiefensee has no right to decide what LH does, old GDR-reflex (of obeying Moscow), or not.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 41):
Sorry, but I doubt this. The report above is from Nov. 2nd.

Yep, and besides it is a false report.

Much smoke about nothing in this thread.

Axel

[Edited 2007-11-15 01:16:59]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
wilco737
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:47 am



Quoting SQ773 (Reply 40):
LCAG does not deserve from its workers such a comment, sorrry. I know LCAG better than you imagine and I do not think that is what LH Cargo would expect from an employee, and less on a public forum. Is is not about being critical, its about being constructive.

Looks like you cannot see my sense of humour in here... I love my job and I think I do a good job (well, that's what I hear at check rides and feedback from Captains)...

Well, apparently you don't know me at all! I love my job and I am just on a 3 year contract at LCAG and in 2 years this contract is at its end, and I don't know what the future brings... Nobody knows...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
SKAirbus
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:17 am

So bloody typical... Their present hub is by far best suited for Lufthansa's needs.. but of course not much has changed in Russia and they are using their immature bullying techniques again.. and also nothing much has changed in Germany by succumbing to the bullying.. I hoped that maybe Germany and Lufthansa would have put a fight but alas once again they have been tricked. Moving their base to Siberia is an absolutely idiotic idea.. The climate up there is no way suitable for a large cargo company as well as the fog conditions at the airport.

Seriously the western world needs to stand up to Russia. They are getting too cocky.

But i guess now Russia won't close their airspace to Lufthansa traffic.. If only there was a quicker way to Asia..
Base: BRU
 
ZakHH
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RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:01 am



Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 42):
Much smoke about nothing in this thread.

I'm afraid, no. Mr. Tiefensee is dead serious about talks with Russia about the hub in KJA. There may not be any final decision yet, and I am sure that LH wants the hub to stay at TSE (or move to ALA, if necessary). But so far, Tiefensee's office has not missed a single chance to point out that they sure like the idea of moving the hub from Kazakhstan into Russia.

If anybody still doubted Mr. Tiefensee's incompetence, then he has removed these doubts by now.
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SKA380
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:46 pm

RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:44 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 14):
Does anybody know which airline hire Pilots at the moment

I'm sure Norwegian Air Shuttle in Norway is lookin for pilots..
They got 53 738's coming their way the next 3 years..  Wink

Back on subject.. It is indeed very disappointing that German government has bowed down to the pressure from Russia..
It'll be exiting to see what LH's reaction to this is..
 
PanHAM
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:50 am



Quoting ZakHH (Reply 45):

If anybody still doubted Mr. Tiefensee's incompetence, then he has removed these doubts by now.

Just to reflect Mr. Tiefensees competence, I think his biggest achievement was to put Leipzig into the competition for the 2012 Olympics. By doing so, he screwed up twice, he took Hamburg, the only German city with a splendid chance, out of the race and he totally screwed up Leipzig's application.

Mr.Tiefensee can negotiate what he wants, he cannot dictate LH to move anywhere, like the states of Hesse and Rhineland-Palatine cannot dictate LH to move some cargo ops to HHN. This works out to be a simple and logic business decision. They will make a synopsis of all possible and thinkable alternatives which will go to the board and the supervisory board, and hey decide on that basis.

If it turns out to be KJA, fine. If not, good for them as well. Personally I (and many of us here) would like that they show the finger to both Russia and Mr, Tiefensee. But that's not the way you can run a company.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Danny
Posts: 3753
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:50 am

Very disappointing and embarrassing for German government. Putin will clearly continue this kind of bullying as it works well.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Germany Agrees To Move LH Cargo Hub To Russia

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:14 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 47):
Just to reflect Mr. Tiefensees competence, I think his biggest achievement was to put Leipzig into the competition for the 2012 Olympics.

Congratulations to him.

Germany is now playing Putin's airspace poodle, jumping wherever he wants whenever he wants, but hey, Leipzig is vying for the Olympics!

 Sad

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