kaitak
Topic Author
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Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:57 pm

Poor old Airbus isn't having the best of weeks, is it ...

A new A330, destined for Air Mauritius, had to make an emergency descent due to loss of pressurisation, resulting in serious injuries to two people on board (believed to be back injuries); other passengers had ear problems as a result of the emergency descent. The plane made a safe landing at TOU and those injured have been taken to hospital.

(Source: PPRUNE).

I'm assuming this is the aircraft involved:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © T.Laurent


[Edited 2007-11-21 12:59:26]
 
LHR777
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:30 pm



Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
The plane made a safe landing at TOU and those injured have been taken to hospital.

TOU, as in Touho, New Caledonia? Or TOU, as in TLS, or Toulouse Blagnac, France?
 
kaitak
Topic Author
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:11 pm

Ah yes, that old one! Sorry, my mistake - it was, of course, TLS, France. D'oh!
 
airlittoralguy
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:12 pm

LHR, can't you guess by yourself ??
Normandie : La r�©unification, maintenant ! http://www.mouvement-normand.com/
 
cf105arrow
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:22 pm

Hope there weren't much pax on board and that injuries don't turn out to be too serious.
 
Arniepie
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:28 pm



Quoting CF105Arrow (Reply 4):
Hope there weren't much pax on board and that injuries don't turn out to be too serious.

Apparently only 10 onboard , some of them suffered more serious injuries (spinal, eardrums).

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,25197,22801638-12377,00.html


For Airbus the saying "when it rains, it pours"certainly seems spot on.
[edit post]
 
BritPilot777
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:30 pm



Quoting Airlittoralguy (Reply 3):
LHR, can't you guess by yourself ??

You never know in the Aviation World!

BritPilot777
Forever Flight
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:38 pm

Airbus Flight Test Engineers and pilots are having a rough time right now. Sheesh. At least noone has been killed in these two incidents, and in this particular one, the aircraft can still be delivered.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:42 pm

How common is this sort of incident as this is only the second one that I've ever heard of?
 
Alessandro
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:59 pm

Didn´t Thai international had a similar problem on an A330 from Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur recently? They had to make
an emergency landing on the way?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:19 am

Well, this shouldn't be too criticized, as this is exactly what test flights are for... There could have been a faulty pack, or a faulty seal, and it is good that this was discovered BEFORE any passengers were on board. While it obviously isn't super-common, things like this DO happen, and fortunately nobody died, and this was discovered BEFORE delivery. Kudos to Airbus for the quick response.
Puhdiddle
 
Leskova
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:04 am



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 9):
Didn´t Thai international had a similar problem on an A330 from Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur recently? They had to make an emergency landing on the way?

Decompressions aren't exactly all that rare - just going onto the search page for the NTSB's database and doing nothing but entering "decompression" as search phrase, you get 8 incidents/accidents between now and 2003 - admittedly, not all on airliners, but some on smaller aircraft.

For 2007, it lists a NW DC9-31 (18 May 2007) in Syracuse, as well as an IAI1124 (2 April 2007) in Darwin; 2006 lists Israir's B757-200 (31 December 2006) landing at Athens; 2005 has a B737-700 of Virgin Blue (9 November 2005) in Melbourne; ...

I remember reading about at least one or two happening somewhere in Europe this year, though I cannot remember any details about them.

They happen, that's pretty much a fact of life and of flying: only this time, fortunately, it happened on a pre-delivery flight.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:53 am

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/ap/20071121...essai-a330-incident-56633fe_1.html

This article says there were 10 crew on board the aircraft, three sitting in the cockpit and seven were circulating between the cockpit and the cabin when the incident (accident?) happened. Airbus spokesman said "the depressurization was very strong and happened suddenly. The aircraft then made a quick descent to reach an altitude where they could breathe but they could not reach their masks and became unconscious by lack of oxygen".

Six were injured and taken to the hospital after landing, two are in serious condition.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4961
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:07 am



Quoting Leskova (Reply 11):

Decompressions aren't exactly all that rare - just going onto the search page for the NTSB's database and doing nothing but entering "decompression" as search phrase, you get 8 incidents/accidents between now and 2003 - admittedly, not all on airliners, but some on smaller aircraft.

For 2007, it lists a NW DC9-31 (18 May 2007) in Syracuse, as well as an IAI1124 (2 April 2007) in Darwin; 2006 lists Israir's B757-200 (31 December 2006) landing at Athens; 2005 has a B737-700 of Virgin Blue (9 November 2005) in Melbourne; ...

I remember reading about at least one or two happening somewhere in Europe this year, though I cannot remember any details about them.

They happen, that's pretty much a fact of life and of flying: only this time, fortunately, it happened on a pre-delivery flight.

Sure, I reckon 3 thousand planes fly all the time every day, so accidents are bound to happened, fortunatly Helios accident is quite rare.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Leskova
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:22 am



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 13):
fortunatly Helios accident is quite rare.

Thank goodness for that - the NTSB database only displayed a single decompression including fatalities.

Actually, I just did the same query again, this time using "depressurization" instead of "decompression" - two additional listings, one with 2 fatalities, one listed as "nonfatal".

Didn't a golf pro die in a depressurisation a few years back?
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Alessandro
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:31 am

Payne Stewart was his name.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:34 am



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 15):
Payne Stewart was his name.

Indeed, aboard his Learjet 35, which continued gliding over South Dakota for quite some time, after everyone on board had already passed out, before crashing.
 
LHR777
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:55 am



Quoting Airlittoralguy (Reply 3):
LHR, can't you guess by yourself ??

Of course I can, but there are no doubt plenty of folk here who are NOT familiar with 3-letter airport codes, and may well google TOU and get Touho, New Caledonia.

Your 'sarcasm' is unnecessary and unjustified.  Yeah sure
 
sstsomeday
Posts: 821
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:08 pm

Wasn't the 340 accident on the ground an error on the part of the testing personnel? I would have assumed so, or did the breaks fail?

This, on the other hand, seems to be a mechanical issue.

So, even though they happened close together, these incidents seem unrelated as to cause. Is that fair to say?
I come in peace
 
skoker
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:22 pm



Quoting Leskova (Reply 11):
For 2007, it lists a NW DC9-31 (18 May 2007) in Syracuse

That one was quite nasty, it diverted here to KBUF. Large hole in the skin of the aircraft just aft of the forward boarding door (L1), I'll not soon forget that one.
 
works4boeing
Posts: 46
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:37 pm

Rough week for the folks at Airbus. A number of pics from the A340 incident circulated around the Everett factory. Everyone there has had the same reaction: gratitude that everyone involved is still breathing, and horror at the thought of something that big, and that powerfull getting loose on the flightline. We're all very than it wasn't worse.

For those injured in both of these incidents, your counterparts at Boeing are thinking about you and praying for your quick recovery. Nobody, anywhere, want's to see this kind of stuff happen.
 
LASoctoberB6
Posts: 1936
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:23 pm

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:00 pm



Quoting Skoker (Reply 19):

That one was quite nasty, it diverted here to KBUF. Large hole in the skin of the aircraft just aft of the forward boarding door (L1), I'll not soon forget that one.

Ooooh, I didn't hear about that one..

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 17):
Of course I can, but there are no doubt plenty of folk here who are NOT familiar with 3-letter airport codes, and may well google TOU and get Touho, New Caledonia.

Your 'sarcasm' is unnecessary and unjustified.

But then ask yourself, why would the plane be in/around Touho? So it had to be Toulouse.. I kinda wanted to know why you couldn't guess either.
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
ncelhr
Posts: 258
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:07 pm

One depressurisation incident that killed all onboard was the Helios Jet on 14 Aug 2005.

For a dramatic, heartbreaking sequence of events, see:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20050814-0
 
LHR777
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:18 pm



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 21):
But then ask yourself, why would the plane be in/around Touho? So it had to be Toulouse.. I kinda wanted to know why you couldn't guess either.

I didn't need to guess - I know where TOU and TLS are.

Besides, could be anywhere - it's a test flight, after all.
 
sandrozrh
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Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:19 am

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:29 pm



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 23):

Besides, could be anywhere - it's a test flight, after all.

Yeah, Airbus indeed flight tests their aircraft in New Caledonia.  Yeah sure Some common sense tells what the OP meant with TOU  Wink
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1267
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:50 pm

Might all these incidents (this one and the 346 run-off) be due to increased production rates on the 330/40 chain at TLS? Take it easy Airbus, safety first  old 
When I doubt... go running!
 
xtoler
Posts: 278
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:08 pm

Pretty sad when I read in the Denver Post on page 3 of the business section there was the article about the depressurization of the A330 and another mention of the A340 breaking up at the top of that page. Not a big article, but yes, it was a test flight and it seems everyone involved came out okay. At the bottom left of page 3, another small article about how well Boeing's sales are up for the third time in three years. Airbus really isn't having good luck in the last few weeks are they?
EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
 
BluemoonUK
Posts: 21
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:30 pm

The Helios accident wasnt actually a depressurisation,it would have needed to be pressurised for that to take place.the pilots missed,on the preflight checks,that the pressurisation switch was set to manual and not auto.so as it climbed it didnt pressurise, yet they kept climbing and then eventually they succumb to oxygen starvation.a very sad event but one that was attributed to human error.
Bluemoon
 
xtoler
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:10 am

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:30 pm

Just a reminder, especially for us American pilots, over 25K at least one person needs to don an O2 mask or at least have it very ready. You never know what can happen. Granted, the masks, at least in the E145 are easy to get to, but in lack of O2, judgement is not always there. No matter how much training on hypoxia we get as flight and cabin crew, when a situation like this happens, no one really knows how someone will react.

Yes, this is a really great reason to flight test before handing over an aircraft to customers. There is always that margin of error in each airframe built, no matter the machinery already milled for the production line. Notice a couple of months ago it seemed Bombardier had some problems all about the same time. I guess now it's Airbus' time. I believe all were relatively new aircraft. So, maybe there should be a little more QA/QC going on at the production facilities and their machinery making the parts. Just a suggestion.
EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:32 pm



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 16):
Indeed, aboard his Learjet 35, which continued gliding over South Dakota for quite some time, after everyone on board had already passed out, before crashing.

i believe he was actually meant to fly from florida to texas, and the plane cruised on autopilot all the way north to south dakota until it ran out of fuel. Amazing it made it across the country.
 
davescj
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RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:22 pm



Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 10):
and it is good that this was discovered BEFORE any passengers were on board

Absolutely true.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 12):
The aircraft then made a quick descent to reach an altitude where they could breathe but they could not reach their masks and became unconscious by lack of oxygen".

Isn't that what the masks are for? Or is it SOP to go to lower altitude?

Quoting BluemoonUK (Reply 27):
The Helios accident wasnt actually a depressurisation,it would have needed to be pressurised for that to take place.the pilots missed,on the preflight checks,that the pressurisation switch was set to manual and not auto.so as it climbed it didnt pressurise, yet they kept climbing and then eventually they succumb to oxygen starvation.a very sad event but one that was attributed to human error.Bluemoon



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 28):
over 25K at least one person needs to don an O2 mask or at least have it very ready.

My question relates to this also, in cockpit are masks worn? Or simply "available" (as in NOT in overhead compartment)? When the masks dropped in the cabin (due to lack of pressure) did a mask drop also in the cockpit? You'd think that'd be a visual (as opposed to auditory alarm) that the problem is pressure, or am I not understanding Xtoler correctly in thinking that the O2 mas is ready -- ie not dropped from the cockpit cieling?

Thanks!

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
xtoler
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:10 am

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:26 pm



Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 29):
believe he was actually meant to fly from florida to texas, and the plane cruised on autopilot all the way north to south dakota until it ran out of fuel. Amazing it made it across the country.

I'm still trying to figure that one out. I remember seeing it on the news. That's just creepy and it really left a lasting impression on my mind! How could it get that far off course ATC wouldn't know what's going on. Especially if no one answered the radio.
EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:14 pm

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:40 pm



Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 24):
Yeah, Airbus indeed flight tests their aircraft in New Caledonia.   Some common sense tells what the OP meant with TOU

It was merely a comment about the usage of an incorrect three letter code, as acknowledged by the OP, who didn't have a problem with it. Why is it such a big issue?
 
sandrozrh
Posts: 2419
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:19 am

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:49 pm



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 32):

It was merely a comment about the usage of an incorrect three letter code, as acknowledged by the OP, who didn't have a problem with it. Why is it such a big issue?

It's not, i just enjoy picking on you.  box 
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:14 pm

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:51 pm



Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 33):
It's not, i just enjoy picking on you.

You're evidently confusing me for someone who gives a sh*t...  Big grin
 
AviationNut
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:12 am

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:07 pm

Here are Depressurisation incidents in Australian Aviation from January 1975 to March 2006

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2006/pdf/B20060142.pdf

Airlines 344 incidents 66.5%

Business 8 incidents 1.5%

Charter 78 incidents 15.1%

Commuter 16 incidents 3.1%

Flying Training 3 incidents 0.6%

Military 19 incidents 3.7%

Other Aerial Work 34 incidents 6.6%

Private 10 incidents 1.9%

Unknown 5 incidents 1.0%

Total 517 Incidents 1975 to March 2006

Quote: Hypoxia is one of the most significant hazards of operating aircraft at high altitude. It is defined as a lack of oxygen to the tissues of the body sufficient to cause impairment of function. At the typical cruising altitudes of commercial transport aircraft, the atmosphere contains significantly less oxygen than at ground level. The pressurised cabin is designed to maintain an altitude equivalent to less than 10,000 feet, since this is the threshold altitude above which the signs and symptoms of hypoxia become more marked3. These signs and symptoms include (but are not limited to) light-headedness, confusion, tremors, impaired judgement, impaired decision-making, dizziness and ultimately loss of consciousness

This incident was made very public because of the loss of life

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...ports/2000/AAIR/aair200003771.aspx

Kind Regards

AviationNut Big grin
Regrets: I only flew Concorde Trans Atlantic twice
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:44 pm



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 31):
Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 29):
believe he was actually meant to fly from florida to texas, and the plane cruised on autopilot all the way north to south dakota until it ran out of fuel. Amazing it made it across the country.

I'm still trying to figure that one out. I remember seeing it on the news. That's just creepy and it really left a lasting impression on my mind! How could it get that far off course ATC wouldn't know what's going on. Especially if no one answered the radio.

USAF fighters reported that the Learjet's windows were covered with frost or condensation and they couldn't see into the cabin. They followed the aircraft until it ran out of fuel and crashed. NTSB report here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAB0001.pdf
 
haggis79
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:05 pm

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:55 am



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 28):
Just a reminder, especially for us American pilots, over 25K at least one person needs to don an O2 mask or at least have it very ready.

does that mean that on US-based airlines at least one of the pilots always is wearing a oxygen mask while on cruise altitude? Can't really imagine that...
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3622
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:08 am



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 37):
Quoting Xtoler (Reply 28):
Just a reminder, especially for us American pilots, over 25K at least one person needs to don an O2 mask or at least have it very ready.

does that mean that on US-based airlines at least one of the pilots always is wearing a oxygen mask while on cruise altitude? Can't really imagine that...

No, read carefully. at least have it ready.
Modern flight deck oxygen masks can be fitted single handed in a couple of seconds. They need to be. You are not concious for long at 35000ft.
 
ogre727
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:43 pm

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:30 am



Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 25):
Take it easy Airbus, safety first

Are you implying that safety standards are being sacrificed for increased production rates???? I am ok with you asking the question, I am NOT ok with you "advising" Airbus to take it easy. It is ridiculous as you don't know what caused these accidents yet.
I am between the devil and the deep blue sea
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Depressurisation Incident - MK 332 At TOU

Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:38 am



Quoting Davescj (Reply 30):
Isn't that what the masks are for?

The people who fell unconscious were not in the cockpit. They were the people in the back...probably moving around (and at highest risk of hypoxia since they are physically active). They also might have been in an area that was not close to a drop down mask.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 30):

My question relates to this also, in cockpit are masks worn? Or simply "available" (as in NOT in overhead compartment)? When the masks dropped in the cabin (due to lack of pressure) did a mask drop also in the cockpit? You'd think that'd be a visual (as opposed to auditory alarm) that the problem is pressure, or am I not understanding Xtoler correctly in thinking that the O2 mas is ready -- ie not dropped from the cockpit cieling?

1) Masks are not typically worn by the flight crew unless there is a emergency (i.e. smoke, depressurization). However, on some airlines, it is SOP for the PIC to wear the mask if the other pilot has to take a physiological break (i.e. go to the bathroom).

2) Masks are not the drop type in the cockpit. Masks must be pulled from a container or fastener and swept over the nose and mouth.

3) In a slow pressurization, you have time to react to warnings. For instance, on Airbus aircraft, if cabin pressure exceed 14,000 feet, the MASTER WARNING alarm sounds and the CABIN PRESS text annunciation is shown in the digital display. After the masks in the cabin drop, the PASS OXY annunciation text is also displayed. Some other aircraft, like the Boeing 717, have an actual voice that warns "Cabin Altitude!". Other aircraft are somewhat more deficient, such as the Boeing 737 which has the cabin altitude alarm being the same sound as the "incorrect takeoff configuration" alarm, which may be part of the reason why the flight crew became on the Helios flight.

However, all of these warnings mean nothing if a rapid depressurization occurs. Useful time of consciousness can be as little as 15-20 seconds at 35,000 feet. Ideally, the flight crew should be familiarized with the signs of a rapid decompression so they instinctively reach for the mask without waiting for cabin warning systems to activate. In fact, on the G550, because of the very high altitudes it can fly at, has an "auto descend" feature that automatically activates if there is a loss of cabin pressure.
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