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Indy
Posts: 4940
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:52 am



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 99):
The bottom line is this: if it didn't make money, they wouldn't run it.

Yes they would. Its called a loss leader. Businesses do it all the time. Without any hard facts on the profitability of a single route we can only guess. Could a flight out of a weak market that is heavily dominated by feed be profitable? Maybe. Could that flight be there for other reasons? Like strengthening the overall value of the MEM versus relying on the value of that single flight itself? Most likely I'd think. I believe the value in that route is not the bottom line dollars and cents of MEM-AMS-MEM but in the overall value it adds to the MEM operation and the added bargaining power it gives NW.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:55 am



Quoting Indy (Reply 100):
I believe the value in that route is not the bottom line dollars and cents of MEM-AMS-MEM but in the overall value it adds to the MEM operation...

Isn't that the definition of a profitable/beneficial/sure not to be dropped route for a hub and spoke carrier?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:01 am

As you know not all routes in a hub & spoke system are profitable. But that doesn't mean you drop the unprofitable routes. But that goes back to the idea that NW wouldn't keep this route if it wasn't making money. Unless the route is badly losing money they are going to keep it. So does this mean we can agree that the survival of this route isn't dependent strictly on the profitability of the route itself?
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:03 am



Quoting Indy (Reply 102):
So does this mean we can agree that the survival of this route isn't dependent strictly on the profitability of the route itself?

Absolutely. Let's leave the touchy-feely prestige stuff out of it, though.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:04 am

What do you mean by touchy-feely prestige stuff?
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:06 am

"Bargaining power"






I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:08 am

Oh it absolutely is. Don't think for a moment that it isn't. NW would be crazy not to use that flight to their advantage when it comes to negotiations. That is just a reality of business. Look at what other cities will go through to try and get that service. You just don't have something like that and not use it to your advantage.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
SNCNtry32
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:22 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:21 am



Quoting Lexy (Reply 83):
MEM is debatable.

Hardly.

MEM is as important as MSP and DTW, its just not as glamors as either. MEM is vintage. Its a pretty easy airport to make a connection through and without it, NW would have little no to presence in the south. I really do prefer it over DTW and MSP.

Sure, it might be the first to go in the event of a merger, but that does not mean its not an important hub NW.
Long Live Memphis!
 
bobnwa
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:53 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 99):
It's not all feed... KL heavily advertises the service in Europe and manages to convince Europeans to visit Memphis. How they do that. I'm not sure.

Most of the Europe passengers on the AMS-MEM are feed passengers from various cities in Europe thru AMS. The local AMS-MEM market is very small, just as the local MEM-AMS is very small. The flight relies on feed at both ends and it does well at that.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:05 pm



Quoting Blackearth (Reply 87):
More than that, Memphis has something on the order of 5 trunk railroads

So? New Orleans for example has 6, as do other cities.

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 107):
Sure, it might be the first to go in the event of a merger, but that does not mean its not an important hub NW.

It's important for keeping the NW brand strong in the South. But it is a small hub when all is said and done. Three banks of flights with a ton of RJ's.

Again, i'll believe this flight when I see it. I have serious doubts that it would do well. Add another million people to the Memphis MSA and I would be less concerned. O&D in the market likely wouldn't be much more than 5%. And I just don't think you'll get 200 people consistently to take the route when Japan is already well served from both DTW and MSP.
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:14 pm



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 109):
Again, i'll believe this flight when I see it. I have serious doubts that it would do well. Add another million people to the Memphis MSA and I would be less concerned. O&D in the market likely wouldn't be much more than 5%. And I just don't think you'll get 200 people consistently to take the route when Japan is already well served from both DTW and MSP.

I do not think the flight will happen, but if it should it will be the Asia originating passengers who will fill the flight, not US originating passengers. Just like Europe originating passengers fill the AMS-MEM flight. Don't base all your predictions on the US side of the flight!
 
Lexy
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:30 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 110):
I do not think the flight will happen, but if it should it will be the Asia originating passengers who will fill the flight, not US originating passengers. Just like Europe originating passengers fill the AMS-MEM flight. Don't base all your predictions on the US side of the flight!

Then I don't think there is really a point in the flight happening in that case. They can already get here easily from DTW and MSP, so what's the point of a flight into MEM? There's no point at all. But in defence of the US travelers, I think you are selling this flight a little short with US originating pax.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
Lexy
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:38 pm



Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 107):
Hardly.

MEM is as important as MSP and DTW, its just not as glamors as either. MEM is vintage. Its a pretty easy airport to make a connection through and without it, NW would have little no to presence in the south. I really do prefer it over DTW and MSP.

If you think it's important then fine. Cool beans and more power to ya, but I beg to differ. To be honest, it's by God's grace that place is still a hub because any sensible airline would've packed up and moved a long time ago. Again, this is my opinion.

I still stand behind the fact that Memphis is the last place I want people getting a first impression about Tennessee from. Or in this case, a first impression of the USA.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
bobnwa
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:42 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 111):
Then I don't think there is really a point in the flight happening in that case. They can already get here easily from DTW and MSP, so what's the point of a flight into MEM? There's no point at all. But in defence of the US travelers, I think you are selling this flight a little short with US originating pax.

There are very few if any trans-atl or trans-pac flights on any airline that rely on US originating passengers to be in the majority. Look at DL at ATL-NRT. Very few of their passengers originate in ATL but the flight is full.

In answer to your first question I will ask another question. Why does UA have t-pac flights to other places than SFO or JL other places than LAX etc. They do it because the market keeps growing. If NWA did NRT-MEM they would gain additional passengers, that they would not get via DTW or MSP.
 
JohnJ
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:45 pm

For some reason, Memphis seems to have a bit of cache with the Japanese - as I understand it, many of them are fascinated by Elvis and some of the other musicians who have come out of the city. The film "Mystery Train" is worth a watch; it concerns a young Japanese couple who travel to Memphis. One wants to see the Elvis hallowed ground, the other is fascinated by Carl Perkins.

And former Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's wish on one of his last formal trips to the U.S. was to visit Graceland:



This tourist angle, of course, wouldn't fill a 787, but there might be more O&D than you'd think.
 
Lexy
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:46 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 113):
If NWA did NRT-MEM they would gain additional passengers, that they would not get via DTW or MSP.

Why would they gain anymore? If these pax are wanting to travel to these places, then can't they get there through the other hubs? Why would MEM open up anything "new" for them that would make them WANT to go through there?? Perhaps I didn't read your question right and my apologies if that's the case here. I still have turkey on the brain.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:22 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 115):
Why would they gain anymore? If these pax are wanting to travel to these places, then can't they get there through the other hubs? Why would MEM open up anything "new" for them that would make them WANT to go through there?? Perhaps I didn't read your question right and my apologies if that's the case here. I still have turkey on the brain

The answer to your question is why does any airline fly to more than one gateway if not to open up to more business. NWA from NRT to SEA,PDX,SFO,LAX,DTW,MSP and HNL because it grows their business from NRT. By your logic should they reduce it to one gateway because they would still get the same amount of business. Also by your logic will the new CDG-MSP flight not increase the travel to CDG and only steal it off the DTW-CDG flight?Should UA only operate NRT-SFO and forget about LAX, ORD etc because they would get the same business only via SFO?

It is a fact of the airline business, that new flights grow the business instead of just dividing up current business.

Again I say that I do not think that MEM will get the flight, but I will also say that MEM is a match any day of the week to BNA as a city to visit or live in.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:25 pm



Quoting JohnJ (Reply 91):
Memphis and Nashville have a huge rivalry. Memphis is the largest city in Tennessee, which I think sticks in the craw of the folks from Nashville. Used to be Tennessee had a car license plate number structure that went along the lines of "1-HM108". The first number before the dash represented the size of the county the car was registered in. Memphis' county, Shelby, scored the "1" spot and Nashville's county, Davidson, came in #2. That structure was changed in the late 1980s, I assume at the behest of politicians living outside Shelby county.

I agree with the rivalry issue, it's always been there. As for the populations, Memphis is indeed larger than Nashville within the city limits, but Nashville has a larger overall metropolitan population. (btw, the county rankings on the license plates being removed had nothing to do with politics - the state was running out of combinations of numbers/letters so they went to a 6 digit system, thus now we just have the sticker with the county name on the plate). I know there's lots of boasting on both sides. I used to live in Texas, and it was the same thing between Dallas and Houston. However, I really doubt the posts that indicate the majority of people from elsewhere cannot differentiate between Nashville and Memphis. They are very much different. It would be like someone looking at the state of Missouri and not being able to tell the difference between St. Louis and Kansas City. Sorry, I don't buy that argument, whoever made it.

IMO, if this route were to happen, the city might have to subsidize it for a time. I still don't see the demand despite Asian industrial presence in the south in general. The 787 would of course be the right sized a/c, but I'm still skeptical.
 
Lexy
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:11 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 116):
It is a fact of the airline business, that new flights grow the business instead of just dividing up current business.

Again I say that I do not think that MEM will get the flight, but I will also say that MEM is a match any day of the week to BNA as a city to visit or live in.

Again, I say what new market would it open up that isn't already there??? Most of the major cities in the south are just one stop away from Japan to begin with. That certainly hasn't proved to be a bad thing for Nashville considering the investments over the last few years we have seen from Japanese companies here.

I would put BNA up to MEM any day of the week, regardless of the mood I was in. All I would have to do is start pulling out the facts and that little claim you made would get shot down in a blaze of glory right there.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
bobnwa
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:24 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 118):
Again, I say what new market would it open up that isn't already there??? Most of the major cities in the south are just one stop away from Japan to begin with. That certainly hasn't proved to be a bad thing for Nashville considering the investments over the last few years we have seen from Japanese companies here.

I would put BNA up to MEM any day of the week, regardless of the mood I was in. All I would have to do is start pulling out the facts and that little claim you made would get shot down in a blaze of glory right there.

Again I will ask should each airline have only one gateway for all its International arrivals? You keep ignoring that question. Do you not think that flights to new gateways increase the total business?

As far as comparing BNA to MEM it's all subjective, but more people choose to live in MEM than BNA and that is a fact. As far as t-pac flights, neither of them should get one, but if one does then it should be MEM. A BNA-NRT flight would be a clinker. The first new city for service to NRT with the 787 should be BOS which is ahead of both MEM and BNA in all regards.
 
dutchjet
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:52 pm

The BNA vs MEM discussion is rather odd.......I think that everyone agrees that NW will consider launching the MEM-NRT service ONLY because MEM is a hub city in the NW network, and MEM-NRT flight would connect two hub cities. If MEM was not a NW hub, nonstop service to NRT (or AMS) would not be a possibility.

A city like MEM strongly benefits from being a hub city for a major carrier, so simple is it. That MEM could get a transpacific flight would be a great thing for that city, but it does not make MEM any better or worse than BNA....BNA is simply no longer a hub for any major carrier, thus longhaul flights out of BNA are not financially practical. When BNA was hub for AA, didn't AA fly BNA-LGW for a short period?

A MEM-NRT flights would add many additional possibilities for pax travelling between the Southeast US and Asia, especially for those pax who want to avoid northern hub cities.....NW will make a financial decision as to whether linking their MEM and NRT hubs makes financial sense.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:56 pm



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 120):
When BNA was hub for AA, didn't AA fly BNA-LGW for a short period?

Yep, with 762ER's. It was well publicized in the New Orleans newspapers (full page ads) as the "easiest way to London". I think the flight even had the same flight number for a time, MSY-BNA-LGW.
 
SNCNtry32
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:22 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:36 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 112):
To be honest, it's by God's grace that place is still a hub because any sensible airline would've packed up and moved a long time ago.

Why?

Quoting Lexy (Reply 112):
I still stand behind the fact that Memphis is the last place I want people getting a first impression about Tennessee from. Or in this case, a first impression of the USA.

There are some decent places in Memphis that I found the whole month I spent down there. Yeah, I could hear gun shots and see the crackwhores crawl back into their caves when the sun rose from my hotel by the airport, but Memphis is the worst place in the world. And if this flight is producing much traffic that would be ending in Memphis, why does it matter, or do you care about the airport and how 'old' it is.
Long Live Memphis!
 
bobnwa
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:40 pm



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 120):
The BNA vs MEM discussion is rather odd.......I think that everyone agrees that NW will consider launching the MEM-NRT service ONLY because MEM is a hub city in the NW network, and MEM-NRT flight would connect two hub cities. If MEM was not a NW hub, nonstop service to NRT (or AMS) would not be a possibility.

A city like MEM strongly benefits from being a hub city for a major carrier, so simple is it. That MEM could get a transpacific flight would be a great thing for that city, but it does not make MEM any better or worse than BNA....BNA is simply no longer a hub for any major carrier, thus longhaul flights out of BNA are not financially practical. When BNA was hub for AA, didn't AA fly BNA-LGW for a short period?

A MEM-NRT flights would add many additional possibilities for pax travelling between the Southeast US and Asia, especially for those pax who want to avoid northern hub cities.....NW will make a financial decision as to whether linking their MEM and NRT hubs makes financial sense.

Well put Dutchjet!!!!!
 
WesternA318
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:02 pm

If the place is so bad, then why did Southern and Delta make it such a focus city (Southern had huge ops there and Delta launched DC-9 service from there) back pre-deregulation? Better yet, hy did Republic retain the hub after deregulation and the absorption of Southern? Why did NW not close the hub automatically after buying out Republic? Theres gotta be something thats keeping the airline there aside from a place to park all those RJ's and DC-9s.
 
SkyyMaster
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Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:16 am



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 119):
As far as comparing BNA to MEM it's all subjective, but more people choose to live in MEM than BNA and that is a fact.

Check your figures. Memphis has a larger population within the city limits, but Nashville has a larger population in the metropolitan area. Not alot, just short of 200K, but Nashville is indeed a larger metro area.

As for the MEM-anywhere service, this whole thread could become a moot point if NW is a takeover target by the time they get any 787's in quantity. In just about all scenarios discussed on a.net, the hub in MEM usually comes out on the short end of the stick, and could go away completely due to redundancy.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:49 am



Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 124):
Why did NW not close the hub automatically after buying out Republic? Theres gotta be something thats keeping the airline there aside from a place to park all those RJ's and DC-9s.

The answer is, I think, rather simple: MEM provides NW with access to a whole different part of the country than its other hubs. BNA and RDU failed as hubs because they were redundant, both with each other and with other hubs. MEM is NW's only way to access the southeast. Throw in decent yields from the local traffic (the relative poverty of Memphis means that relatively fewer people fly than if Memphis were richer, but when you have the level of income stratification that MEM does, there is a wealthy base that does fly for leisure, and there is certainly reasonable business demand), and you have an effective hub. It won't break any records, but it does fine.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bobnwa
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:11 pm



Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 125):
Check your figures. Memphis has a larger population within the city limits, but Nashville has a larger population in the metropolitan area. Not alot, just short of 200K, but Nashville is indeed a larger metro area.

Thanks for backing up what I wrote, Memphis has a larger population than Nashville. I did check my figures and that is why I wrote what I wrote. More people live in MEM than BNA!
 
blackearth
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:34 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:51 pm



Quoting 777STL (Reply 16):
Memphis - America's Distribution Center?

Haha, that's a joke, right?

Here are some facts about US customs receipts for various cities. When it refers to "ports", it's not just referring to waterborne activity but receipts for the port of entry:

http://www.fms.treas.gov/annualreport/appendix00/rtb.pdf

Port of Morgan City, LA 2,323,014.88
Port of New Orleans, LA 172,429,815.07
Port of Little Rock, AR 6,486,332.26
Port of Baton Rouge, LA 27,238,377.70
Port of Memphis, TN 337,281,339.51
Port of Houston 400,038,265.53
Miami 573,361,017.84
Dallas-FortWorth-255,097,574.90
Port of Nashville, TN 86,520,605.26
Port of Norfolk, VA 344,608,948.80
Port of Newport News, VA 43,167,519.57
Port of Tampa, FL 74,635,078.84
Port of Jacksonville, FL 289,367,359.96

Different ports of course function differently. Much of what is imported into Houston is utilized locally in its vast industrial petrochemical sector. New Orleans I would say is primarily an export port--shipping America's agricultural production for consumption overseas. Memphis functions in a way opposite to New Orleans--it's an import port as much as an export port, and its role is to get those products moved around to the rest of the country by air, truck and rail. Hence, the America's Distribution Center slogan.
 
blackearth
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:34 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:10 pm

I forgot to add to the above list:

Federal Express Courier, Memphis, TN 90,929,393.06
Port of Atlanta, GA 442,808,096.89

Apparently FedEx has some customs branch separate from the overall port of Memphis.

So, Memphis is second to Miami in the south as an import trading center.

Obviously, "America's Distribution Center" is a chamber of commerce jingle. But the facts bear out that there is some degree of factual basis for the claim.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:17 pm



Quoting Blackearth (Reply 129):
So, Memphis is second to Miami in the south as an import trading center.

Obviously, "America's Distribution Center" is a chamber of commerce jingle. But the facts bear out that there is some degree of factual basis for the claim.

I think you are forgetting about domestic shipments which do not have a duty. Obviously, Memphis is "America's Distribution Center"
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14723
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:32 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 127):
Thanks for backing up what I wrote, Memphis has a larger population than Nashville. I did check my figures and that is why I wrote what I wrote. More people live in MEM than BNA!

His point, which is correct, though, is that MSA population is a far better predictor of demand than city population... to take an extreme example, the city of Nashville has about 150,000 more people than the city of St. Louis, but the St. Louis MSA is nearly twice the size of the Nashville MSA... which airport would you say has more demand?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1934
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:34 pm



Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 107):
MEM is as important as MSP and DTW, its just not as glamors as either.

Well I remember all the time I worked for NW upper management has always claimed that MSP and DTW were the "strategic assets" somehow I don't think that has changed in the minds of the execs.
 
bobnwa
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:53 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 131):
His point, which is correct, though, is that MSA population is a far better predictor of demand than city population... to take an extreme example, the city of Nashville has about 150,000 more people than the city of St. Louis, but the St. Louis MSA is nearly twice the size of the Nashville MSA... which airport would you say has more demand?

He wasn't talking about airport demand, but he was talking about desirable places to live. I pointed out that Memphis was more desirable as more people choose it to live in it than Nashville.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:59 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 133):
I pointed out that Memphis was more desirable as more people choose it to live in it than Nashville.

Given that the per-capita income in Nashville (including Belle Meade and Forest Hills, which are quasi-independent) is nearly $10,000 higher than that of Memphis, I'm not sure you can conclude that Memphis is 'more desirable' just based on population.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:09 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 134):
Given that the per-capita income in Nashville (including Belle Meade and Forest Hills, which are quasi-independent) is nearly $10,000 higher than that of Memphis, I'm not sure you can conclude that Memphis is 'more desirable' just based on population.

If more people live in point A than point B, then don't more people find A desirable? If more people buy car A than Car B isn't car A more desirable. I know there are all kind of factors built in, but in the final analysis more people find A desirable. I am looking at it purely statistically.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:11 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 135):
I know there are all kind of factors built in, but in the final analysis more people find A desirable. I am looking at it purely statistically.

...unless the people in A are too poor to move, which is, unfortunately, the case in a LOT of Memphis.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
Posts: 4940
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:32 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 136):
...unless the people in A are too poor to move, which is, unfortunately, the case in a LOT of Memphis.

I can understand that. Is it more desirable or are people there basically because of a lack of options. Also since when do we look at the city limits when figuring population? Is living in the Indianapolis city limits more desirable than living in Carmel or Fishers? Not hardly. The people who live in the city limits likely cannot afford to live in those other places. It is a lack of options and not desire.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
SNCNtry32
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:22 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:22 pm



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 132):
Well I remember all the time I worked for NW upper management has always claimed that MSP and DTW were the "strategic assets" somehow I don't think that has changed in the minds of the execs.

Oh dont get me wrong, they are, all I was saying is MEM is just as important as those two. Of course NW will build up MSP and DTW before they even think about MEM.
Long Live Memphis!
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:35 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 127):
Thanks for backing up what I wrote, Memphis has a larger population than Nashville. I did check my figures and that is why I wrote what I wrote. More people live in MEM than BNA!

Look it up on the census bureau website. Airline pax do not just come from within the city limits. It is a fact that can be verified, the Nashville/Davidson MSA has more people than the Memphis/Mid-South MSA. If you have a problem, take it up with the census people.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 133):
He wasn't talking about airport demand, but he was talking about desirable places to live. I pointed out that Memphis was more desirable as more people choose it to live in it than Nashville.

Where did I ever say Nashville is more desirable place to live? All I did was point out the fact your statement on population was not totally correct, nor was it totally incorrect. (City limits vs. MSA) I also listed a couple of attributes of each city. You are putting words in my mouth there guy.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:59 pm

[

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 139):
Where did I ever say Nashville is more desirable place to live? All I did was point out the fact your statement on population was not totally correct, nor was it totally incorrect. (City limits vs. MSA) I also listed a couple of attributes of each city. You are putting words in my mouth there guy.

Never wrote that you said it. I wrote that Lexy said it.
 
blackearth
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:34 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:08 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 130):
I think you are forgetting about domestic shipments which do not have a duty. Obviously, Memphis is "America's Distribution Center"

No, I wasn't forgetting about domestic trade, nor export trade, neither of which have duties imposed in the US. The thread originally was about foreign travel, i.e. MEM-Tokyo, so I limited my post to some measurable quantifier, customs duties.

As far as Memphis being too poor for such a flight. 2000 census figures pegged per capita income in Memphis at 20,300 and the US average at 21,500.
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:10 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 140):
Never wrote that you said it. I wrote that Lexy said it.

OK, well it showed up under quotes I made. Regardless, the figures are correct as I stated. No biggie.
 
PITrules
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:49 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 135):

If more people live in point A than point B, then don't more people find A desirable?

No. It means the city limits are geographically larger for A than B. It's irrelevant, as has already been pointed out. MSA is what matters, which BNA has more of.

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 138):
Oh dont get me wrong, they are, all I was saying is MEM is just as important as those two.

If MEM was just as important as DTW and MSP, then why...

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 138):
Of course NW will build up MSP and DTW before they even think about MEM.

FLYi
 
SNCNtry32
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:22 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:01 pm



Quoting PITrules (Reply 143):
If MEM was just as important as DTW and MSP, then why...

MEM is important in the sense of a regional hub. DTW is NW's international money maker. I would like to see more international expansion in MEM, but I am afraid that is wishful thinking.
Long Live Memphis!
 
User avatar
centrair
Posts: 2899
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:50 am



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 84):
If my memory serves me correctly, those all used to be done with 742's, correct??

SEA-KIX DC-10
SEA-HKG 742
LAX-NGO Never operated by NWA. But DL operated it with an MD11

NW operated HNL-NGO with a DC10 in the early 1990s and replaced the flight with DTW-NGO using a 744. Later the flight was extended to MNL making MNL-US double daily direct.

DL still has rights for NGO and FUK. FX gave an NRT slot to DL to operate JFK-NRT, the slot was returned when the flight was terminated. (caused big debates on slot ownership and US/Japan Bilateral)

Someone said that NW should build up other airports. I think NW will. They can fly to anyplace in Japan if they want. So DTW-FUK, MSP-NGO, MSP-KIX, & DTW-CTS, are all possibilities with a 787. Question is can the be profitable. However this could key to getting additonal slots at NRT. They just rearrange some flights to operate out of NGO and KIX and then use one slot to connect NGO and KIX to NRT. (Already done with NW77/78)

I think ultimately the question is how many NRT slots does NW have unused or are being held with alternate flights.

There are limited 2009 slots from NRT and I have a feeling these will go to new entries with current slot holders fighting tooth and nail for the additional.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

RE: NWA Memphis To Japan Via 787?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:16 am

Clearly, in all of this MEM vs BNA, comparisons of MEM-AMS to MEM-NRT, etc. etc. etc., you have all forgotten the most important factor in making sure this flight is overbooked daily and is a financial winner!...the Japanese obsession with Elvis! Big grin



 duck   Big grin Big grin
- CitrusCritter
Long Live the 717!
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