pilotntrng
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:13 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:41 pm

I think everyone is forgetting the decency and public nudity laws in the US. According to the poster, they began to argue with the flight attendants. If they didn't follow the commands of the flight crew then they broke another law. If you don't believe me then look it up in the CFR's and FAR's. I personally don't think they overreacted, if they weren't following the crews instructions, then that is grounds enough for the diversion and the removal from the aircraft.
Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
 
wdleiser
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:32 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:17 am

I fully encourage fornication in the lavatory.. I wish to become a member of the mile high club some time soon.

Buutttt according to regulations.... only 1 person is allowed in the lav at a time and if the f/a's catch you...you must stop and admit defeat and obey
 
Jetsa
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:56 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:37 am



Quoting RP TPA (Reply 6):
Before I noticed AR385 was from Mexico, I thought he might have been one of the Republican candidates for President of the USA.

That is classic. Couldn't agree with you more.  Wink
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:11 am



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 17):
I dont think USAirways should have dirverted the flight to PDX but what they should have done, was to arrest the couple once they landed in in LAS......

The only problem being that then you have 2 hours where you will probably have this couple bitching to others around them, and perhaps have other problems .ie. "Why won't you give me my cocktail?" etc. Once they crossed the line of not following instructions, it's over. I know I don't want to sit with my family next to people who can't get their crap together enough to make it through a 2 hour flight.

Not directed at Access-Air (I think we're pretty much on the same page), these threads always end up doing the same thing. Someone makes a right-wing/regligious comment, others question why it's a big deal to have sex in an airplane lav, etc. Reminds me of an old Playboy cartoon I sneeked a peek of as a kid. It showed a couple "doing it" across the center section of a widebody, and the flight attendant has to remind them "Excuse me, but this is the no-f***ing section." It's coming to the point where we need to accommodate everyone's whims, so perhaps we need to introduce a new class of seating.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
tsaord
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:46 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:21 am

Well what happens when a person would have to use the lav and both of them are still in there?? How long does it take from insertion to completion before mile high club folks come out??
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair
 
MQTmxguy
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:58 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:59 am



Quoting Tsaord (Reply 54):
Well what happens when a person would have to use the lav and both of them are still in there?? How long does it take from insertion to completion before mile high club folks come out??

Like I said, 3 lavs on a 150 seat a/c, in other words 50 PAX per lav. If you take more than a couple minutes in there you will get a knock on the door. Hell I've had F/As come knock on the door when I was just having a rough time.
Well at least we can all take comfort in the fact that NW will never retire their DC-9s
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:19 am



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 17):
I dont think USAirways should have dirverted the flight to PDX but what they should have done, was to arrest the couple once they landed in in LAS......Not only did they create a disruption to other passengers, they also created a situation of diverting all the attention of the F/As from other duties and passengrs...

You've provided the answer to your own question: "they also created a situation of diverting all the attention of the F/As from other duties and passengrs" You'll see that later in this post...

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 23):
Who stated that any passengers were offended? Maybe some were, maybe not. The point is, you don't know.

Is it that big a stretch for you to envision one of the other passengers (maybe traveling with children) becoming offended, or do you have to rely on that specific fact having to be specifically mentioned for you to believe in the possibility of being true?

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 23):
What is the specific FAA rule regarding sex on a commercial aircraft? Or barring more than one person at a time occupying the lav?



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 23):
I disagree. See below why I think not.



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 23):
OK, here's what most of you are ignoring. The fact the couple was allegedly having sex is incidental to the story. The way the article puts it, they were asked to cease by the crew (fair enough) and they became hostile and "threatened the flight attendant". We can take the media story with a grain of salt, but I would suspect it is much more likely the couple are in hot water due to their reported attitude and threats rather than the fact they were having a shag.

You seem to like specifics, so here are some of the legal variety: [My emphasis]

9-63.110 Interference with Flight Crew Members and Attendants

Section 46504 of Title 49, United States Code (formerly section 1472(j) of Title 49 Appendix) sets forth the offense of interference with a flight crew member or flight attendant within the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States, which is defined in 49 U.S.C. § 46501(2). The statute applies to any "individual on an aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States who, by assaulting or intimidating a flight crew member or flight attendant of the aircraft, interferes with the performance of the duties of the member or attendant or lessens the ability of the member or attendant to perform those duties." The statute provides for up to 20 years imprisonment, and further provides for imprisonment for any term of years or life if a dangerous weapon is used. Interference with a flight crew member or attendant is a general intent crime, and does not require a specific intent either to intimidate the flight crew member or attendant or to interfere with the performance of his or her duties. United States v. Grossman, 131 F.3d 1449 (11th Cir. 1997).

Venue is governed by the standard venue provisions, 18 U.S.C. §§ 3237 and 3238 and Rule 18, Fed.R.Crim.Proc. See also United States v. Hall, 691 F.2d 48 (1st Cir. 1982). "[T]he offense continues for at least as long as the crew are responding directly, and in derogation of their ordinary duties, to the defendant's behavior." United States v. Hall, 691 F.2d at 50. Prosecution is always proper in the district over which the aircraft was flying when the interference took place, if that can be determined. In many cases, particularly those in which either (1) the aircraft is diverted due to the defendant's actions, (2) the defendant's interfering actions continue, or (3) the crew remains concerned about defendant's possible further actions, venue is also proper in the district in which the aircraft lands. Since determining the district over which the aircraft was flying when the action took place may be difficult, and that district may have little or no connection to the matter, the Department advocates prosecution in the district where the aircraft lands and the defendant is deboarded and arrested in all appropriate cases.

The interference and other Title 49 aircraft offenses are supervised by the Terrorism and Violent Crime Section (TVCS), which can be reached at (202) 514-0849.

As dispatchers, we see this kind of general behavior (that results in the PIC and dispatcher having to divert the flight on a regular basis. It's costly, and completely unnecessary for rogue passengers to act this way, and screw things up for the rest of the passengers, not to mention themselves, once the federal legal process gets going.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
WestJetYQQ
Posts: 2763
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Cl

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting HowSwedeitis (Thread starter):
Mile High Club

Does anyone know where I can pick up an application?

[Edited 2007-11-23 18:27:52]
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
HowSwedeitis
Topic Author
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:32 am



Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 24):
the kind of people who go into the can with no shoes on too.

Ewwwwww!!!  yuck  I've seen people do that do!  vomit 

Quoting MQTmxguy (Reply 44):
They musta forgot that for it to "stay in Vegas" they first had to get to vegas

 checkmark   rotfl  I wonder if anyone tried to join the 6-foot high club... AKA, sex in a Greyhound bus lav!!  Confused
Heja Sverige!!
 
warszawa
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:37 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:48 am

Aww yea, another Mile High Club announcement, congrats to the couple Big grin

Hey, any mile  bouncy  high clubbers  champagne  can sit  tongue  next to me  knockout  any flight  relieved  i'm on  spit 
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:48 am



Quoting Helvknight (Reply 1):
Complete overreaction IMO.

I'm someone who disagrees.

Airlines are pressured but their customers and the government to provide a business-like, family friendly environment.

Within the US this is inappropriate behavior. It may be acceptable in other parts of the world, but not here.

If they had simply stopped and returned to their seats, I think the airline should have let it go. But since they were belligerent with the crew, I think they got what they deserved.

I think the whole thing is ridiculous. What's the big deal about keeping your pants zipped up until you are in a private setting?? We've all been horned up at times when it is not approriate. This, in my opinion, is one of them. Conservatives currently run this country. What do you expect?
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
EK345
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:12 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:50 am

in my opinion, the couple should have been met by security at LAS and hauled away for their behavior (with the flight crew, not for the getting busy bit).

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
warszawa
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:37 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:53 am



Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 58):
Ewwwwww!!! I've seen people do that do!

You think thats gross? When I was in college in a dorm, we had a public bathroom shared by some 50 other guys. I saw several guys go in there barefoot (into the stalls), or with socks on. 90% of the time the bathroom was filthy (guys bathroom...college? cmon'), urine all over the floor, hair, toilet paper, etc.

But hey, maybe they were soaking up the fun, then selling their socks on eBay in the fetish section? Plausible  laughing 
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
warren747sp
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:51 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:00 am

We know that they are banned for life from flying SQ first class suite!
747SP
 
MQTmxguy
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:58 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:12 am



Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 63):
We know that they are banned for life from flying SQ first class suite!

I wonder if they'd let me non-rev in one of those  scratchchin 
Well at least we can all take comfort in the fact that NW will never retire their DC-9s
 
NewYorkCityBoi
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:33 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:13 am

I think the plane should divert only if it's a matter of live and death... like someone need a medication, operations.. etc... not from just this small things like american being conservative. Looking at how much fuel we waste just because the F/A cant control this easy situation/problem.
In this economics, we should care about saving fuel and also about other passengers being at the destination ontime more than just wanna kick someone out of the plane to fullfill your personal decency standard. Having 150 people being at the destination late without a decent reason (ex: somoene's life) equals the lost over million dollars.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:26 am



Quoting NewYorkCityBoi (Reply 65):
Having 150 people being at the destination late without a decent reason (ex: somoene's life) equals the lost over million dollars.

If you're suggesting that the cost was over $1,000,000, that'd be incorrect. Whatever the cost was, it was expensive, but the point remains that it was unnecessary, had the folks behaved themselves....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:51 am

From what I've read so far, it seems like I'm in the minority, but I don't disagree with what US did. For one, the plane wasnt diverted because these two were joining the Mile High Club; the plane was diverted because this couple was disorderly and disobedient with the crew after being told to stop and return to their seats. Had they just returned to their seats, I bet either A) US would have dropped everything right there or B) waited until arrival at LAS to deal with the couple.

I also guess my values are just more conservative than many others when I say "keep it in your pants" until you're in a private setting. Had I been on this flight, I would have been one of the ones who was bothered it by it, regardless of whether they were doing it in their seats or in the lav. Kudos to US and to the crew onboard for standing up to this.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
missourifarmer
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:21 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:22 am



Quoting HowSwedeitis (Thread starter):
However, a few other PAX were angered, and thought that US Airways over reacted.



Quoting HowSwedeitis (Thread starter):
flight was diverted to PDX

Stuff like that dont ever happen when I fly....... An extra landing/takeoff in a non-stop flight!!!!! What a bonus!!!!  veryhappy 
"Pain is just weakness leaving the body!"
 
pilotntrng
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:13 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:29 am



Quoting NewYorkCityBoi (Reply 65):

Im not bashing you, but come on. It's not like you can just pull over to the side of the curb and say ok time out. You are at FL 280 plus or minus. When you have unruley passengers the PIC makes a decision. You make a decision and you go with it. There is a million other things going on in the flight deck and the one thing you don't want to worry about is some jackasses screwing in the lavs. They obviously didn't comply with the FA's and they were kicked off at PDX. What the hell is the problem here? Are there any actual airline folks in here, or just the usual arm chair wannabes? Oh before you bash me, ex ramp rat and appyling for an FO position in Jan.
Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
 
flykal
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:20 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:35 am

Complete over-reaction.

Cool headed crew would have given them about 5 minutes to get everything done, and send them back to their seats after with a stern warning. That would have saved the airline lots of $$$'s and much less inconvenience to other passengers.

Typical US airlines these days, jumping up with the "security" card at any chance they can get.
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4987
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:40 am



Quoting NewYorkCityBoi (Reply 65):
I think the plane should divert only if it's a matter of live and death... like someone need a medication, operations.. etc... not from just this small things like american being conservative. Looking at how much fuel we waste just because the F/A cant control this easy situation/problem.

Being conservative has nothing to do with it. Being belligerent and threatening inflight crew does. As for it being an easy situation, as soon as a threat is made to an FA, it becomes a major issue. It's the same as leaving a bomb note in a seatback pocket or yelling "FIRE" in a theater. It may be a joke to you, but others take it quite seriously.

Quoting NewYorkCityBoi (Reply 65):
Having 150 people being at the destination late without a decent reason (ex: somoene's life) equals the lost over million dollars.

I highly doubt it especially since the majority of the flight were probably destined for LAS without connecting. Unless the passengers decide to sue, and that would never hold up, the cost is probably less than $10,000. Which in a perfect world would be billed to the couple anyway.
 
pilotntrng
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:13 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:41 am

FlyKal,


Typical non-US poster that has no clue what goes on with US airlines. You believe all the crap the media feeds ya mate? You must be one of the millions in the world that either has forgotten about 9/11 or doesn't give a damn and bashes any inconvience sighting " oh you are over doing it ". I hope it doesn't happen, but it more than likely will, the next attack, people like you will come out screaming...... why didn't you do something about it!!!!!!
Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
 
davescj
Posts: 1277
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:42 am



Quoting PilotNTrng (Reply 69):
appyling for an FO position in Jan.

Good on ya. Hope all goes well.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
flykal
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:20 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:37 am

PilotNTrng...sorry buddy but after spending the past 7 years flying to/from the US with many US based Captains, and now working for one of the largest US aviation organizations, I think I'm in a fairly good position to make a comment. What you may like to think about is the lack of common sense in today's aviation industry and the misguided judgments that people make in haste. If you think that there is no difference between a couple going for it in the lav and a terrorist threatening to take over the aircraft, then perhaps you need a dose of reality.
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
 
CrossChecked
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:06 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:01 am

The law states that passengers must comply with any reasonable request made by the flight (tech or cabin) crew during a flight. Seems to me the flight crew made a number of reasonable requests which were ignored. This is grounds for arrest [of the customers].
Cabin crew, doors to manual and cross check.
 
baw716
Posts: 1463
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:19 am



Quoting Etops1 (Reply 21):
my friend was working the flt . he was lead. he told me that they got really nasty when told to get ouit of the lavotory. it got pretty bad so they had to call the authorities.

Here is the reason for the diversion. While I think most of us will agree that it is at best in poor taste and at worst something "sinful", doing the dance in the lavatory was not the proximate cause of the diversion...it was interference with the flight crew and the operation of the flight. If what Etops1 said is accurate (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), the flight was diverted because the couple made a ruckus and at that point most everybody would have known what was going on (an airplane is a mighty small place, after all) and there could have been an incident with another passenger who might have thrown a fit for not doing something about it. As another a.net member said here, we have to defer to the wisdom of the Captain who made the decision to divert. Ultimately, he is responsible for the safety of all on board, including the bonehead and his girl who just couldn't wait to find a room.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:24 am

Ladies and Gentleman

The issue is not whether they were trying to get into the "mile-high club" but rather their confrontational attitude towards the FA's which made the flight divert, now I doubt anyone here knows the severity of the confrontation, but judging by the action of US Airways, it could have been heated.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Baron52ta
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:52 am

RE: LAS Flight Diverted To PDX Due To Mile High Club.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:58 am



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 7):
There is not enough information to judge the issue on either side. If anything, I hope they had a quickie in PDX before boarding another flight.

They very likely found it hard to get another flight because the airlines talk to each other when they eject pax from a flight and give the reason for the ejection.Since their are moral standards involved I should think they will have issues in future with flying, but it does go to the hypocrisy from the people who think that it should be acceptable behaviour

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