UAPremierGuy
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End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:16 am

I preface this with the important notice that this should only be taken as a rumor and nothing else. On my DEN-LAS flight over the weekend, I was sitting in 1D. During a somewhat lengthy ground delay, all of the FA's were in the front galley talking amongst themselves, and given my proximity, I was privy to their discussions.

According to the purser who's uncle is a big-wig at Boeing: Ted is going away. Finally. Apparently too many Premiers (myself included) were complaining about the lack of First Class, especially into LAS, enough so that UA finally decided to drop Ted. My educated guess on this is that this probably won't happen until the roll-out of the premium cabin on the int'l fleet is complete, which will be at least 2009, so we'll be stuck with Ted until then.

The purser also said that UA is in talks to buy JetBlue. Their route networks/fleets are comprable and would complement each other well, according to him. I agree with that to an extent.

Again, these are rumors, but interesting nonetheless.
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beeweel15
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:31 am



Quoting UAPremierGuy (Thread starter):
Again, these are rumors, but interesting nonetheless.

Yes but maybe it can go like this:

1 - UAL buys Jetblue
2 - TED is merged into JETblue
3 - JETblue is expanded
4 - Jetblue will operate the domestic network with UAL doing a few domestic flights were the Premium Service is needed.
5 - UAL will fly out of the hubs to the international destinations
 
UAL777UK
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:46 am

Well anything is possible and it would certainly give UA a massive presence @ JFK again, although I will believe it when I see it. Ua seem to be merging with just about everybody at the moment.
As for TED, does not surprise me that it may go, they should never have gone all Y with these birds, there should have been an F cabin but then the arguement would of course be that its not much different from mainline.
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:08 am

I can totally see UA making a play for Jetblue. They'd be a great fit and it would be a relatively cheap way for UA and Star to get a market presence at JFK. I can also see UA pursuing Spirit. UA, NK and B6 together would give them a South Florida hub at FLL from which they could compete with AA.
 
ferengi80
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:53 am

Please excuse my ignorance here, but aren't United Airlines in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection? I think I remember something about them entering Chapter 11 post 9-11, and never remember them coming out of it. If this is the case, how can they afford to even consider buying JetBlue?

Please forgive me if I'm wrong here - hell, it wouldn't be the first time!
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DLPMMM
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:04 pm



Quoting Ferengi80 (Reply 4):
Please excuse my ignorance here, but aren't United Airlines in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection? I think I remember something about them entering Chapter 11 post 9-11, and never remember them coming out of it. If this is the case, how can they afford to even consider buying JetBlue?

Please forgive me if I'm wrong here - hell, it wouldn't be the first time!

UA has been out of Chapter 11 for several years.

In the opnion of many analysts, UA did not do a radical enough restructuring during their reorganization period, and as such, have retained more debt than their competitors. This makes their ability to be the aquiring company somewhat questionable at this point, but I have not studied their finances in depth.
 
airtran737
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:04 pm



Quoting Ferengi80 (Reply 4):
Please excuse my ignorance here, but aren't United Airlines in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection? I think I remember something about them entering Chapter 11 post 9-11, and never remember them coming out of it. If this is the case, how can they afford to even consider buying JetBlue?

Please forgive me if I'm wrong here - hell, it wouldn't be the first time!

UAL has been out of Chapter 11 for some time now, and has been making very nice profits.
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OzarkD9S
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:56 pm

Although just a rumor, the UA/B6 idea is right on track with a response to a post I made on one of the endless merger threads. The idea being that the majors/legacies would be better off focusing on buying out some of the smaller players rather than trying to gobble each other up.

UA merger rumors seem to have them paired up with everyone but AA.
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b777a340fan
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:36 pm



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 2):
it would certainly give UA a massive presence @ JFK again

Not to mention a near "monopoly" at IAD.
 
jacobin777
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:41 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 5):
UA has been out of Chapter 11 for several years.

..since early 2006.... Wink

"Up the Irons!"
 
thirteenright
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:46 pm

Ted is a pointless product/differentiation. Its just an all Y United, so why the Ted moniker? There is nothing special about it whatsoever.

UA could buy JetBlue and convert the Ted planes into B6 (and get rid of that hideous bathroom wallpaper). Imagine the JetBlue livery with "Part of United" underneath.
 
ferengi80
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:18 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 5):
UA has been out of Chapter 11 for several years.



Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 6):
UAL has been out of Chapter 11 for some time now, and has been making very nice profits.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 5):
UA has been out of Chapter 11 for several years.

..since early 2006....

Thank you kindly for correcting me! Glad to hear they are out of Chapter 11, but would certainly be concerned about them trying to acquire another airline.
AF1981 LHR-CDG A380-800 10 July 2010 / AF1980 CDG-LHR A380-800 11 July 2010
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:24 pm

There is an article in this week's edition of BusinessWeek magazine about United and Tilton in particular, shopping for a merger. United has under-invested itself in newer aircraft, has holes in its route network (East Coast and South), the Ted thing is a failure, just as much as Shuttle by United was, and 13 years after the much ballyhooed employee buyout, UA is still mired in labor management woes, with its Flight Attendants earning 1985 salaries.

United failed to take advantage of Chapter 11 to rethink its business model. It has valuable assets in terms of routes but it will find it tough to find a merger partner. AA is out of the question from a Justice Department standpoint. Both are too big and overlap. Delta doesn't want to merge with UA. NW has too much overlap. CO is not interested. That leaves US of the major, legacy carriers.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:25 pm



Quoting UAPremierGuy (Thread starter):
According to the purser who's uncle is a big-wig at Boeing: Ted is going away

1. What would a boeing guy know about TED???

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Thread starter):
The purser also said that UA is in talks to buy JetBlue

Talk about stupid!!!!


Buying JetBlue and their mostly leisure high price sensitive markets would be idiotic to say the least.

1. It wouldnt reduce competition at all
2. You cant reduce the schedule and raise yields
3. If you tried that, youd create a HUGE opening for Virgin America to have a JFK base along with a SFO base, therefore making VX a major two coast airline, beyond what B6 is right now.

I do thinka B6/VX merger/buyout makes sense at some point when VX has matured somewhat.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:29 pm



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 2):
Ua seem to be merging with just about everybody at the moment.

That's cuz Jake Brace, Tilton and Doug HAcker have no vision beyond enriching themselves via a merger

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 12):
the Ted thing is a failure, just as much as Shuttle by United was,

Shuttle was a huge success out of SFO until the employee snap backs in 2000
 
davescj
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:43 pm



Quoting UAPremierGuy (Thread starter):
The purser also said that UA is in talks to buy JetBlue. Their route networks/fleets are comprable and would complement each other well, according to him. I agree with that to an extent.

Why would UA want to go back into JFK? They pulled out a lot of their slots did they not? On the other hand, B6 as JetBlueUnited would make some sense -- reduce competiton, fill in some E and S routes. And of course, remove some competition.

Dave
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jacobin777
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:50 pm



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 13):
3. If you tried that, youd create a HUGE opening for Virgin America to have a JFK base along with a SFO base,

...assuming that UA would keep basically all of the routes (hence gates and slots),where would VX expand from in terms of capacity? Also, the competition would still be there...

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 14):

That's cuz Jake Brace, Tilton and Doug HAcker have no vision beyond enriching themselves via a merger

...if Tilton really wanted to get rich, he wouldn't have left the very lucrative oil industry to work at UA....not to mention, he's already well compensated now, regardless if UA merges or not...
"Up the Irons!"
 
AADC10
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:09 pm

UA could not afford to buy B6 as B6 is too expensive. B6 could by UA, but probably would not want to. A more realistic scenario that Boeing might know about is that UA would sell its TED A320 fleet, enough for B6 to establish a new hub. Still that is not too likely either since UA and B6 use different engines. Perhaps UA and B6 will codeshare.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:22 pm



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
...assuming that UA would keep basically all of the routes (hence gates and slots),where would VX expand from in terms of capacity? Also, the competition would still be there...

UA cannot make money given the current capacity levels in NYC-Florida. The only way they can make money is by shrinking and trying to drive up yields, but that will fail.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:27 pm



Quoting AADC10 (Reply 17):
UA could not afford to buy B6 as B6 is too expensive. B6 could by UA

??

B6's market cap is mere 1.2B, while UA has 4B+ of free cash on hand.

UAs market cap on the other hand is 4.7B with B6 only having ~350m cash.
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LMP737
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:43 pm



Quoting UAPremierGuy (Thread starter):
The purser also said that UA is in talks to buy JetBlue. Their route networks/fleets are comprable and would complement each other well, according to him. I agree with that to an extent.

Again, these are rumors, but interesting nonetheless.

Being an airline employee, not UAL or JBLU, I can tell you I have heard so many rumors over the years from other employees I have lost track of them all. I'm guessing that it's one of those rumors that gets started and takes on a life of it's owns
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jfk787nyc
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:47 pm



Quoting AADC10 (Reply 17):
E SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP MEMBERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States, joined Nov 2004, 793 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted Sat Nov 24 2007 12:09:50 your local time (27 minutes 27 secs ago) and read 260 times:

UA could not afford to buy B6 as B6 is too expensive. B6 could by UA, but probably would not want to. A more realistic scenario that Boeing might know about is that UA would sell its TED A320 fleet, enough for B6 to establish a new hub. Still that is not too likely either since UA and B6 use different engines. Perhaps UA and B6 will codeshare.

UNITED AND OLD: Guangzhou - Baiyun (CAN / ZGGG) (closed), China">CAN AND Bunbury (BUY / YBUN), Australia - Western Australia">BUY JETBLUE TOMORROW FOR CASH, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? UNITED BUYS JETBLUE AND GETS A 40% MARKET SHARE OF NEW YORK, THEY ALSO SWITCH EVERYONE TO THEIR FREQUENT FLIER PROGRAM AND STAR CATCH'S NEW YORK. EVERYONE WILL BE LOYAL TO STAR AS EVERYONE IS IN LOVE WITH JETBLUE IN NEW YORK.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 13):
Quoting UAPremierGuy (Thread starter):
The purser also said that UA is in talks to buy JetBlue

Talk about stupid!!!!


Buying JetBlue and their mostly leisure high price sensitive markets would be idiotic to say the least.

1. It wouldnt reduce competition at all
2. You cant reduce the schedule and raise yields
3. If you tried that, youd create a HUGE opening for Virgin America to have a JFK base along with a SFO base, therefore making VX a major two coast airline, beyond what B6 is right now.

I do thinka B6/VX merger/buyout makes sense at some point when VX has matured somewhat.

How would this be an opening for Virgin America in New York? Jetblue owns a brand new terminal with huge amount of capcacity no one is saying United will buy Jetblue to put them out of business. United dropped JFK because it did not have the connecting traffic with Jetblue they can build JFK to a larger much more better hub almost immedietaly.

Plus, Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, Singapore, LOT, AirChina, Turkish, Air India will all have a perfect connecting hub in NEW YORK. Between all those members of STAR they probably fly 20 widebodies daily to JFK. It will be much easier for all of them if UNITED purchases JETBLUE.
 
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:56 pm



Quoting AADC10 (Reply 17):
UA and B6 use different engines

No, they don't. IAE-V2500s on both fleets.

Further, you say that JetBlue is too expensive. Well, I haven't seen their price tag in a newspaper or online ad lately, but methinks you overvalue JetBlue.
United has a worldwide network, and membership in the premier alliance (even if it's one I'm not a member of.... hint hint, no bias here).
JetBlue has uncertain financials, a fleet that was bought cheap but needs maintenance (both of those are a.net conjecture, but still some truth to it) and a VERY limited route network

I, for one, think UA and JetBlue might be a mutually beneficial combo.
But I think it should be branded as UniBlue.

Or maybe JetTed.
 
jacobin777
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:57 pm



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 18):

UA cannot make money given the current capacity levels in NYC-Florida. The only way they can make money is by shrinking and trying to drive up yields, but that will fail.

...maybe that's the whole purpose of buying B6...
"Up the Irons!"
 
fun2fly
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:03 pm

It would be an interesting way for UAL to modernize their fleet quickly all the existing and new A32x from Jetblue. They need to play catch up sometime. Domestic fleet is in bad shape.
 
7e72004
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:11 pm

If the rumor was true to which i am not claiming either way, and United bought or took over Jet Blue, they would get the new terminal at JFK that is being constructed for Jet Blue. And having a hub or whatever at JFK couldn't hurt either. But the east coast seems to be oversaturated at this point. I was looking at various airline route maps and the East Coast is nuts  Big grin
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DocLightning
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:24 pm

Here's what I don't get.

United has tried on a number of occasions to do the whole "Airline-within-an-airline" thing. They did Shuttle, then Ted, and I think there was another, too. Delta did Song. USAirways did something like this, too.

EVERY TIME an airline does this it fails.

Why do they keep trying?
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flytweed
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:32 pm

Just to take a different road on this... I won't really comment on the viability of UA and B6 becoming one airline, but I do have some concern as to what would happen to the B6 "service" that they are most known for. After flying both airlines, I know that finding legroom on UA is a premium, getting good customer service from UA is certainly hit or miss, and UA certainly lacks any of the extra frills that B6 has built into its model.

Plus, what about the whole idea of merging a legacy carrier with a true LCC? I don't think a merger would maintain the integrity of either a pure legacy or a pure LCC. B6 has offered some good opportunities for manageable fares for consumers - UA, in my experience, has never been able to compete with B6 fares. Would a merger be the end to B6's low fare structure?
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:40 pm



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 23):
...maybe that's the whole purpose of buying B6...

as i pointed out, that will fail due to the price sensitive nature of the markets....these markets attract competition
 
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STT757
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:11 pm



Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 12):
That leaves US of the major, legacy carriers.

The problem is that US Airways of 2007 is alot different than the US Airways of 2000, the takeover of HP and new leadership has changed the airline into something that would not fit well with UA.

What US has that would benefit UAL:

LGA slots, terminal, shuttle

Southeast Hub in Charlotte.

What US has that UA does not need nor want:

PHL hub, PHX hub

What US has that the DOJ would require a combined US/UA sell

DCA slots/gates

What US has that really does not need, but may take any way because it's such a popular destination:

Las Vegas.

In summary there's too much UAL does not need in a merger with US, for UAL it has to be CO or DL.
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hnl-jack
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:11 pm

Can't see the possibility of merging B6 into UA, too many labor and union problems. However, It might make sense, for many of the reasons stated in other posts, if the UA holding company would acquire B6, operate it independently, code share with UA, Star Alliance and joint terminal operations. That would offer B6. UA and the Star Alliance partners considerable marketing potential.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Thread starter):
According to the purser



Quoting UAPremierGuy (Thread starter):
The purser also said

Pursers and other front line personnel never have inside information like this. If they should somehow come across factual information like this, disclosling it would get them fired.e

Either the purser was saying what he thought (or hoped) would happened or the thread is untrue.

Transactions like the one described are totally confidential util the deal is nearly or completely done.

[Edited 2007-11-24 11:45:01]
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
jacobin777
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:20 pm



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 28):
price sensitive nature of the markets



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 28):
.these markets attract competition

..that usually doesn't attract competition.. Wink

..that being said, UA just might let B6 operate as an "independent" carrier..nothing related to TED or Shuttle....sort of how WN lets TZ function as a pseudo-independent carrier...
"Up the Irons!"
 
tozairport
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:28 pm



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 14):
Shuttle was a huge success out of SFO until the employee snap backs in 2000

The employee snap backs had nothing to do with it. It was actually still a success when it was stopped, but management had no direction and couldn't figure out how to cut smart after 9/11, so they just cut everything. The shuttle did succeed in UA gaining market share in LAX and SFO, forcing WN out of SFO, and showing that an efficient quick turn operation could work, even at a legacy airline. The shuttle did not fail United, United failed the shuttle.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:41 pm



Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 30):
USER PROFILE SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP MEMBERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT _
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States, joined Mar 2001, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted Sat Nov 24 2007 14:11:15 your local time (8 minutes 30 secs ago) and read 62 times:

Can't see the possibility of merging B6 into UA, too many labor and union problems. However, It might make sense, for many of the reasons stated in other posts, if the UA holding company would acquire B6, operate it independently, code share with UA, Star Alliance and joint terminal operations. That would offer B6. UA and the Star Alliance partners considerable marketing potential.

Well in JFK, Star can't be in the same terminal as JetBlue, First of all there are no international customs being built in JetBlue new terminal. Two, Everyone in JFK connects to flights in the United States by switching terminals anyway it is not a big deal you just get on the monorail. Passangers will arrive in T1 and switch to JFK. All that is needed to be done is put in a couple of Business class seats in all flights. It is not a big deal for them anyway there product's economy is almost there.

I was a firm supporter of Delta taking over JetBlue but after I heard this rumor about United I have changed my mind. I would love to have another big alliance in New York to combat the SkyTeam dominance on routes all over New York. If a person does business in Europe and lives in New York he is a SkyTeam member 100%. I love Jetblue but I travel on Delta around the United States because I get real miles not some LCC nonsense. This might be a very big plus for New York in general between Delta & Continental they own probably 65% of all European traffic from New York.

Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 30):
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States, joined Mar 2001, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted Sat Nov 24 2007 14:11:15 your local time (8 minutes 30 secs ago) and read 62 times:

Can't see the possibility of merging B6 into UA, too many labor and union problems. However, It might make sense, for many of the reasons stated in other posts, if the UA holding company would acquire B6, operate it independently, code share with UA, Star Alliance and joint terminal operations. That would offer B6. UA and the Star Alliance partners considerable marketing potential.

There will not be any union problems if this deal goes through because United does not have an operation anymore in JFK. If Jetblue is still run as Jetblue then they will still have non-unionized employees in New York, Florida and the rest of Jetblue's network. I personally believe that if this deal does go through then all United must do is never expand their domestic network anymore and just keep on expanding domestically by the JetBlue name. United can make loads of money off of this because it does not cause any downsizing to their product at all. United maybe in debt but that debt will be paid off eventually by United not by Jetblue & United. So, United will be unionized and Jetblue will not. Meanwhile Jetblue can start expanding in the United States building domestic hubs in all the United hubs throughout the United States.

If United purchases Jetblue, Jetblue will not disappear and grow to a very prosperous product. If Delta would purchase Jetblue Then Jetblue will disappear and thousands of workers will be left without jobs and prices on flights in New York will go up.
 
nrcnyc
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:08 pm

I could be wrong, buy I thought B6 was non-union and UA is mainly union. That could be ungly no?
 
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:09 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
B6's market cap is mere 1.2B, while UA has 4B+ of free cash on hand.

UAs market cap on the other hand is 4.7B with B6 only having ~350m cash.

A buyout seems very risky if they're using their own money. Thats 1/4 of their free cash not including costs related to the merger. I would put the total cost of such a merger at close to 2 billion leaving 2.7 billion in cash. Any economic hiccup could send UA into a death-spiral.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 29):
the takeover of HP

Sigh. When will people learn that HP took over US.
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halls120
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:18 pm



Quoting FlyTweed (Reply 27):
B6 has offered some good opportunities for manageable fares for consumers - UA, in my experience, has never been able to compete with B6 fares.

Your experience is limited. UA has been very competitive with B6 out of IAD, especially to the west coast. I'm shopping for a nonstop to SFO over the Christmas holidays, and right now UA is beating B6 for nonstop fares to the Bay Area for comparable flight times.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AirframeAS
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:32 pm



Quoting UAPremierGuy (Thread starter):

And you heard this from whom???  sarcastic  Oy vey!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:35 pm



Quoting Tozairport (Reply 33):
The employee snap backs had nothing to do with it. It was actually still a success when it was stopped, but management had no direction and couldn't figure out how to cut smart after 9/11, so they just cut everything. The shuttle did succeed in UA gaining market share in LAX and SFO, forcing WN out of SFO, and showing that an efficient quick turn operation could work, even at a legacy airline. The shuttle did not fail United, United failed the shuttle.

actually the employee snap backs marked the end of a profitable UAL until 2006 or so. So it was the snap backs.

WN was driven out of SFO due to dependability not UA.

The LAX shuttle flights mostly lost money, SFO was very profitable. DEN and ORD were pointless

I do agree with the last sentence
 
rampart
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:47 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 29):
the takeover of HP and new leadership

The new leadership is HP, and HP "took over" US (or merged, however one prefers it, but US taking over HP is not one of the preferences).

An earlier post asked about the viability of a legacy merging with a lcc. The HP-US merger is one example. It's having problems, but one of the merging airlines probably would not be around now, so that could be seen as some success. However, I didn't see HP as a full blown LCC, nor US as a died in the wool legacy, as UA is. The shades of gray are making these types of classifications irrelevant.

-Rampart
 
Super80DFW
Posts: 862
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:03 pm

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:50 pm

I would sure hate to see Ted go away! I haven't got to fly on them yet.
EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:06 pm



Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 8):
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 2):
it would certainly give UA a massive presence @ JFK again

Not to mention a near "monopoly" at IAD.

You think United would expand to the B gates?

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 12):
That leaves US of the major, legacy carriers.

Being part of the Star Alliance, already, though, would still make that somewhat attractive, IMO.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
United has tried on a number of occasions to do the whole "Airline-within-an-airline" thing. They did Shuttle, then Ted, and I think there was another, too.

Would that be Avolar?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 29):
In summary there's too much UAL does not need in a merger with US, for UAL it has to be CO or DL.

If UA tried to buy US, the Feds would definitely be involved, and there might be another major involved, too, to help cut the pie - one reason being, at least, because there would be a lot (like you mentioned) that UA wouldn't want/need.
Living the American Dream
 
frontierflyer
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:35 am

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:36 pm

UA and B6 as much as I hate the idea would complement each other quite nicely. It would merge more smoothly than with any major. I would rather like to see the small guys get together, UA has too much debt, old planes, too much competition at their hubs, angry staff, declining market share, fleeing elite frequent flyers and no clear plan for the future as demonstrated by TED. UA is desperate for a miracle cure and are looking for a over the counter drug B6. What they really need is a lifestyle change. Everyone thinks a merger is the only cure, not knowing it come with some serious side affects.
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:52 pm

USAir had Metrojet; Delta had Song and Delta Express; United had Shuttle by United and Ted; Continental had Continental Lite; and i think that is it from what i can recall. It seems that these "lite airlines or express ones" are formed as a "test" to see what woudl happen if the airlines chose to go to a stripped down version of themselves. I also think, obviously, that they do it to try and lure both business and leisure travelers. Out of all of the "lite" versions of the above airlines, i am not sure which one was more successful. Anyone have any guesses?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Rockinflyer
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:32 pm

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:58 pm

All I can say is, Buh-bye TED. Don' t let the door hit you on the rear on your way out.  smirk 
AA,AC,AF,BA,BN,BW,CO,DL,FL,F9,HA,KL,NA,PA,RW,TW,UA,WA,WN
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:25 pm



Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 21):
EVERYONE WILL BE LOYAL TO STAR AS EVERYONE IS IN LOVE WITH JETBLUE IN NEW YORK.

I lived in Queens and went out of my way to NOTY fly on B6. To me and everyone in my company, B6 is not worth flying on.
 
sjc4me
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:43 pm

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:32 pm

Would B6 even sell? I thought they liked being their own entity.
Unable.
 
nwa330tony
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:34 pm

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:55 pm



Quoting Davescj (Reply 15):
B6 as JetBlueUnited

i hate United and love Jetblue but i gotta admit, that has a nice ring to it!
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: End Of Ted. And A Buy-out Jetblue?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:56 am



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 41):
I would sure hate to see Ted go away! I haven't got to fly on them yet.

You ain't missin' much, Super80DFW. Look at it as WN, but with A320's and FA's wearing formal uniforms and channel 9.
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