FFlyer
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 6:46 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:30 pm



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):
CO really does not want to go beyond 4000 miles with the 752, its an operational headache even during the summer when winds are less of an issue (generally) but Newark weather and ATC issues become more problematic. That being said, we could see an ""exception"" to this rule when new routes for Summer 2008 are announced.

Just let the "exception" mean that HEL might still happen!
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1551
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:32 pm



Quoting Horvik89 (Reply 49):
"So now there are two 767-400s that have been freed up"

now as stated that they are freed up, why cant they just add a 764 to the ewr-lhr route instead of the 762. Then put the 762 to the EWR-DME route....?

One of these is spoken for in the LHR moves. Thus, one free one.
 
jfk787nyc
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:59 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:42 pm

Continental would do great on EWR-DME I personally can't wait for this flight as both Skyteam carriers fly only to SVO but SVO is a transferring nightmare compared to DME in SVO I need a visa for Russia with DME I do not need a transit visa to other countries in the former soviet union.
 
CO787EWR
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:10 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:43 pm

The EWR-BRU downgrade was expected because CO told us that it would be heading to India once they were allowed to fly there. As of now aren't all the 777's spoken for 5 daily flight to Europe. You have 2x daily to NRT 2x daily to TLV 2x daily India 1 daily HKG 1 daily PEK and some these take two aircraft to follow daily. I see only one free 777 to run a route that will require 2 planes to run daily.

[Edited 2007-11-25 11:44:54]
 
horvik89
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:01 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:01 pm

Yeah, Continental Airlines seems to be doing well in Europe at the moment, i flew TLV-EWR this summer on the T7, great flight. There was an incident during the flight when a passenger assaulted a member of the cabin crew, what a scene.... But turned out great when the flight was me my police and security upon arriva into EWR early that moring at around 4:30am. Anyways, i still think that CO should go to an extra lenght to make DME happend. It would be one of those New York - London with no competition routes  Wink right?
"Work Hard, Fly Right" - Continental Forever
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:04 pm

The 773 rumor needs to be considered. Since more than one reliable witness says Kellner is the source of the 773 talk, we have to assume that CO is at least considering such an acquisition. A couple or more of 773's would make many of the scheduling choices presented in this thread possible. For any deliveries by next summer, though, the planes would have to be used, not new, but that's ok.

Are there any 773's on the market looking for a new home?
 
ManchesterMAN
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:09 pm

What happened to the second BHX flight? Did they have 2 flights this year or was the second flight dropped earlier?
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13981
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:09 pm



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 55):
Are there any 773's on the market looking for a new home?

There may be some Leasing companies with early '08 777-300ER delivery slots.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
diesel33
Posts: 325
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:28 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:16 pm

Anyone with any ideas as to why ship 130 (AVOD in Y) does not fly beyond the UK? Are there some weight issues that prevent it from flying to their more farther destinations?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:19 pm



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 15):
Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 10):
Im also wondering, if PA was ever this big in Europe?


Not in absolute rpm/asm, but at PA's peak, their share of the whole transatlantic market was almost 40%. Neither CO nor DL comes close to that.

If I recall correctly, TW was the largest US-Europe operator in total capacity for quite a few years.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:24 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 59):
If I recall correctly, TW was the largest US-Europe operator in total capacity for quite a few years.

You are correct; early in the jet age, TW was disadvantaged by a lack of jet aircraft - that was really PA's transatlantic peak. When TW acquired sufficient aircraft, the feed at their JFK hub put them in the lead. Soon thereafter other airlines began flying from smaller hubs and PA never regained the commanding lead they had in the early 60's.

[Edited 2007-11-25 12:25:57]
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3086
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:48 pm



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 45):
Quoting LIPZ (Reply 43):
One more question on a side note, does not exist a range issue for the 767-400 flying to Athens?

coming out of ATH during the middle of the summer?? Yes!!

ATH-EWR 4956 What's the runway situation at ATH with 100F temperatures?
EWR-HNL 4962
AMS-IAH 5012
Boeing website states range at 6,473 miles
I thought TLV-EWR would be possible at 5692 miles
 
jfk777
Posts: 7207
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:01 pm



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
NEW YORK-JFK

DL 80 JFK AMS 763 daily
DL 132 JFK ATH 763 daily
DL 92 JFK BCN 763 daily
DL 78 JFK TXL 763 daily
DL 140 JFK BRU 752 daily
DL 134 JFK OTP 763 4xw
DL 98 JFK BUD 763 4xw
DL 112 JFK DUB 763 daily
DL 96 JFK EDI 752 daily
DL 106 JFK FRA 752 daily
DL 72 JFK ATH 763 daily
DL 88 JFK KBP 763 4xw
DL 3 JFK LGW 763 daily
DL 5 JFK LHR 763 daily
DL 1 JFK LHR 763 daily
DL 174 JFK LYS 752 4xw
DL 126 JFK MAD 763 daily
DL 162 JFK AGP 752 daily
DL 154 JFK MAN 752 daily
DL 84 JFK MXP 763 daily
DL 30 JFK SVO 763 daily
DL 82 JFK NCE 763 daily
DL 118 JFK CDG 752 daily
DL 54 JFK ORY 752 daily
DL 136 JFK PSA 763 5xw
DL 148 JFK FCO 763 daily
DL 160 JFK FCO 763 daily
DL 102 JFK SNN 752 daily
DL 150 JFK VCE 763 daily

What about Cairo, Amman, Tel Aviv and Istanbul ?
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3086
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:02 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 41):
There's another one now, LAX-Honolulu loses the 767-400 in March, goes to a 757-200. So now there are two 767-400s that have been freed up, neither of which has been factored into these '08 Trans-Atlantic schedules yet.

I can see taking the 767-400 off LAX-HNL, as CO can make much more revenue filling those Business First seats on International routes from EWR (compared to the reward and heavily discounted Hawaii vacation travelers). What I don't get is replacing the 767-400 on LAX-HNL with a 757-200, why not the 757-300?

Is the LAX-HNL route going 752 for sure? PC timetable doesn't show it. If that happens HNL goes from a 767 maintenance base to one with a trhu flight and 3 turns per day with the longest being 4:30 and the other two turns under three hours. How would that affect the 764 that rotates thru GUM for GUM-NRT (2 roundtrips)?
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4721
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:08 pm



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 61):
ATH-EWR 4956 What's the runway situation at ATH with 100F temperatures?

Both runways are 13000 feet long and the airport is pretty close to sea level so I don't believe there should be much problem in operating the flight.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13981
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:14 pm



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 63):
Is the LAX-HNL route going 752 for sure?

March 28th is the last day for the 767-400 on LAX-HNL, try booking LAX-HNL on or after March 29th and you will see the 757-200.

Again it makes sense for CO to deploy their limited Widebody resources where they can generate the most revenue, the problem I have is replacing the LAX-HNL 767-400 with a 757-200. For two reasons:

1.) The 757-300 is closer in capacity to the 767-400, and has a much lower CASM which makes it ideal for leisure routes such as LAX-HNL. It also has more First Class seats than the 757-200's Business First Cabin.

2.) As with the 767-400, the 757-200 would be better utilized on a Trans-Atlantic route. I can think of at least a dozen Trans-Atlantic flights CO would probably do better with revenue wise than LAX-HNL.

Let the 757-300 do LAX-HNL, it fits in with the other routes CO utilizes their 757-300s for (Florida, Las Vegas, Caribbean etc..).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
nuggetsyl
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 11:46 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:30 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 41):
I can see taking the 767-400 off LAX-HNL, as CO can make much more revenue filling those Business First seats on International routes from EWR (compared to the reward and heavily discounted Hawaii vacation travelers). What I don't get is replacing the 767-400 on LAX-HNL with a 757-200, why not the 757-300?

Only the ata aircraft can do it since ours 757-300 do not have etops. I would not be surprised to see cal try to get etops ratings for our 757-300s. Since only the ata birds can do the route, that would create a scheduling nightmare.
 
ac888yow
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:29 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:50 pm



Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
CO 104 EWR ATH 764 daily

Very interesting to see the 764 operating to Athens. At the very least I'll see it in Athens, but I may just consider flying them to check out the rare 764.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13981
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:52 pm



Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 66):
Only the ata aircraft can do it since ours 757-300 do not have etops. I would not be surprised to see cal try to get etops ratings for our 757-300s. Since only the ata birds can do the route, that would create a scheduling nightmare.

That makes sense, I did not know the 757-300s delivered to CO did not have ETOPs certification. Hopefully they will start getting them certified so they can fly them to Hawaii.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:56 pm



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 62):
What about Cairo, Amman, Tel Aviv and Istanbul ??

The schedules quoted above apparently do not reflect either carriers' schedules outside of Europe. If that is considered, DL has a number of additional flights to Africa and the Middle East, most of which are to destinations CO does not serve. Both also have service to TLV, India, East Asia, and deep S. America with each carrier having an advantage in one region or the other. With just a mental headcount of routes, DL probably has the advantage in routes outside of Europe but CO might generate more ASMs because of the use of 777s and their heavier presence in Asia.

Overall, CO and DL have very expansive international route systems.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1551
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:15 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 57):
There may be some Leasing companies with early '08 777-300ER delivery slots

I think GECAS just leased one to Air Canada for April 2009 delivery. That would have been a nice one to grab. Not sure who else has any available. I'm sure all the scenarios are being reviewed. I don't think there are any on the used market.
 
DLBOIFIN
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:51 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:19 am



Quoting FFlyer (Reply 50):

Just let the "exception" mean that HEL might still happen!

Yeah, HEL starts to be one of the last European capitals without any US carriers. The market is definitely underserved! I am sure AY is enjoying this situation, unfortunately the passengers traveling between HEL-USA are suffering because there are not decent connections. Hello CO and DL, we need you!
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:30 am

It bothers me that IAH-MAD is still not a scheduled flight. CO still hasn't figured out how to take advantage of all that traffic from Latin America that comes into IAH.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:43 am



Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 72):
It bothers me that IAH-MAD is still not a scheduled flight. CO still hasn't figured out how to take advantage of all that traffic from Latin America that comes into IAH.

Someday. Pre-9/11, pre-TSA, pre Homeland Security regulations, CO thought that IAH-MAD would be an important route; as you say moving pax travelling between Central America and Europe via IAH. The Miami alternative. But, things have changed, and travelling via the US is no longer an attractive alternative for pax that hold passports issue by countries not part of the visa-waiver program (IB killed its MIA mini-hub operation for this reason.)

Nonstop flights from Central America to Europe have been launched and are doing very very well.....and more services will follow (COPA is rumored to be studying PTY-MAD very closely, KL will relaunch nonstops to PTY, etc)....thus, IAH-MAD is not the priority that it once was.

Many think that IAH-MAD and IAH-FRA will be added to CO's schedule as 787s are delivered, we shall see.
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:40 pm



Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 56):
What happened to the second BHX flight? Did they have 2 flights this year or was the second flight dropped earlier?

BHX operated daily in the summer just past too.

Quoting Diesel33 (Reply 58):
Anyone with any ideas as to why ship 130 (AVOD in Y) does not fly beyond the UK? Are there some weight issues that prevent it from flying to their more farther destinations?

I don't think this is true, for example, I've seen it operating routes to Scandanavia in previous weeks.
 
panamair
Posts: 4146
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:22 pm



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 47):
On the DL schedules, the Barcelona flight is DL94 (not 92) and on what days is LYS being served by the 752 from JFK, as it doesn;t appear to be in the online schedules yet?

DL's JFK-LYS starts July 15 2008 and will be a daily service.

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 46):
And if you take into account PA's huge intra-Europe and intra-German services combined with their transatlantic operation they definitely had a more extensive European network than both DL and CO.

Pan Am never had as many daily nonstops between the US and Europe as DL and CO currently do. PA did fly bigger planes so maybe from an ASM perspective it could be close. However, PA did serve more cities in Europe than either DL or CO currently do, especially since PA did use its IGS operation out of TXL to many smaller cities such as Kiel, Dortmund, Westerland/Sylt, Hanover, Strasbourg, in addition to the usual HAM, STR, FRA, NUE, MUC, etc.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1220
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:19 pm



Quoting LIPZ (Reply 21):
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):
we could see an ""exception"" to this rule when new routes for Summer 2008 are announced.

Any rumors about the new routes? I wish CO is at least considering flying to VIE.

I am surprised that CO does not fly to VIE from EWR.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 22):
Full airplanes, profits, and customer satisfaction ratings, and the like at CO all seem to indicate that flying the 757 on TATL flights is a rather good idea.....especially considering that 757 operations give customers more choice and, in many cases, allow nonstop service to be financially viable and allow pax to avoid connections and hubs. While the a.net crowd is obsessed with widebodies and IFE, real world passengers look for convenience and nonstop flights, thus, 757 TATL services are a very good thing.

I agree with you here. 752s definately open things up for airlines in a positive way. In my mind, I would rather fly EWR-BRU on a 752 for example, than fly EWR-CDG-BRU on a 772 on the EWR-BRU leg in order to avoid connecting and dealing with the hassels that could arise.

Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 72):
It bothers me that IAH-MAD is still not a scheduled flight. CO still hasn't figured out how to take advantage of all that traffic from Latin America that comes into IAH.

Wouldn't you say they have missed the boat on this? IB already flys to a good amount of cities in South America and I am sure MIA sees a good amount of connectiong pax on their IB and AA MAD flights.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25995
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:33 pm



Quoting B752OS (Reply 76):
and I am sure MIA sees a good amount of connectiong pax on their IB and AA MAD flights.

Not really. Madrid is very well connected to South and Central America, and with competition on many key routes, competitively priced. The flights are primarily O&D on the Miami side of things. The visa hassle has hurt Europe-LatAm connecting traffic. It really started to hurt earlier this decade, reaching a low point in 2004. It has since started a healthy rebound, but not from Madrid because Madrid has plenty of non-stop options.
a.
 
rdwootty
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:28 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:17 pm

Poor old BHX has got the short straw again as they did have a 2 flight operation then limited days ands then dropped. I suspect that CO would really like to have 2 xBHX but the aircraft is linked to BRS and they must be having a lot of " assistance" on that route so it is more profitable to run a half empty flight to BRS than two full flights to BHX
 
basrabob
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:54 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:43 pm

What is very noticeable in all of the discussions is no mention of the NW schedules , I am still amazed that they haven't said anything about their new services to LHR , One can only assume that they are not ready for it...which would be surprising given the amount of coverage the whole access to LHR by the US .

I would assume KL will supply the slots , but is anyone aware of when it is being announced , bearing in mind we are now about 4 months before the launch of the summer 08 season!!
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3938
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:22 pm



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 73):
doing very very well...

I think this is an understatement. those IB 343's and 346's go packed packed packed

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 78):
profitable to run a half empty flight to BRS than two full flights to BHX

Or it could be half full  Big grin Seriously....is there proof of this..I don't think CO would run it daily to BRS if loads were that bad.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 69):
ith just a mental headcount of routes, DL probably has the advantage in routes outside of Europe but CO might generate more ASMs

are you figuring in the Express flying to every strip of concrete in Mexico....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
by738
Posts: 3059
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:33 pm



Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 78):
Poor old BHX has got the short straw again as they did have a 2 flight operation then limited days ands then dropped. I suspect that CO would really like to have 2 xBHX but the aircraft is linked to BRS and they must be having a lot of " assistance" on that route so it is more profitable to run a half empty flight to BRS than two full flights to BHX

Its a similar story at GLA and EDI albeit loads are always good from both. DL JFK from EDI will no doubt break the camels back in some form or other though.
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:55 pm



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 80):
Seriously....is there proof of this..I don't think CO would run it daily to BRS if loads were that bad.

It's not true BRS loads are normally pretty healthy, certainly not half empty.

Quoting BY738 (Reply 81):
Its a similar story at GLA and EDI albeit loads are always good from both. DL JFK from EDI will no doubt break the camels back in some form or other though.

CO aren't expecting DL to hit them much at all. I suppose some of the lower yield leisure traffic with no particular affiliation to either airline might be lost if DL price their flights agressively.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:30 pm



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 80):
are you figuring in the Express flying to every strip of concrete in Mexico....

Delta Connection does quite a bit of Mexico service too. Not sure on balance who "wins" that contest.

The reality is that DL is a larger airline overall and serves more cities worldwide - largely driven by its domestic system. In terms of total international system traffic, CO and DL are very close to the same size for the year to date. Based on next summer's schedule, DL should pass CO. Depending on what CO does with its 787s and depending on how many more 777s DL buys (recent exec comments are that they want more than the 8 on order but they are not interested in the 787 for now), CO and DL could flip flop back and forth in total international size for the next several years - probably to be ended only by consolidation in the industry.
 
LO231
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:33 pm



Quoting CO787EWR (Reply 53):
The EWR-BRU downgrade was expected because CO told us that it would be heading to India once they were allowed to fly there

The CO rep visited our office and told the same thing, they need 777 there more, but BRU hopes for 777 to come back, as it went packed all the time from BRU in the summer.

Oh well, you don't see many 764s in Europe, so for me it's cool! I'd like to fly CO in 2009, hopefullt to EWR, MIA and EYW...

Best regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
LIPZ
Topic Author
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:29 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting LO231 (Reply 84):
The CO rep visited our office and told the same thing, they need 777 there more, but BRU hopes for 777 to come back, as it went packed all the time from BRU in the summer.

I am not so sure this is strictly related to India flights consolidation. The impression I get is that CO has chosen to put this 777 to Rome instead of Brussels, probably because further capacity is needed to Italy. And we don't have to forget BRU-EWR route is now flown by 9W too with large aircrafts, this means a bit more competition for CO on its route to BRU.

[Edited 2007-11-26 16:35:40]
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3047
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:33 am



Quoting LO231 (Reply 84):
The CO rep visited our office and told the same thing, they need 777 there more, but BRU hopes for 777 to come back, as it went packed all the time from BRU in the summer.

it would be nice to keep the 777 there, but there most likely wont be any 777 service for a long time to come. All 20 of ours are spoken for on routes that require 777 a/c except for EWR-LHR/CDG & IAH-CDG/LHR.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3086
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:39 am



Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 78):
Poor old BHX has got the short straw again as they did have a 2 flight operation then limited days ands then dropped. I suspect that CO would really like to have 2 xBHX but the aircraft is linked to BRS and they must be having a lot of " assistance" on that route so it is more profitable to run a half empty flight to BRS than two full flights to BHX

If I recall correctly, this is what happened last summer: (Correct me if I'm wrong)
BHX had one daily and something like a 4 day operation.
It wasn't tied to BRS, rather believe it was tied to the lack of daily service on the second IAH-AMS, trip.
There was a positioning flight IAH-EWR twice a week that moved the aircraft from IAH to EWR, where it substituted on a EWR-CDG flight, freeing a 752 for the second BHX trip.

My guess is something like that may happen in 2008 as the threadstarter states EWR-FRA will have a 777/762 mix. That mix is undoubtedly involved in the IAH-AMS 4 day per week second flight. Look for something extra out of EWR 3 or 4 days per week - to where, who knows?
 
codc10
Posts: 2662
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:17 am



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 83):

Delta Connection does quite a bit of Mexico service too. Not sure on balance who "wins" that contest.

In terms of daily departures and ASMs, CO is the largest US-based carrier to Mexico. American is also ahead of Delta in most categories to Mexico as well.
 
col
Posts: 1707
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:21 am

What about a third 752 to MAN, or capacity increase. I believe those two 752's are always pretty full. No other carrier seems to be increasing capacity ex MAN, but all flights seem to be running heavy, so could be good opportunity in 2008.
 
RedEye
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2000 5:43 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:44 am



Quoting CODC10 (Reply 88):
In terms of daily departures and ASMs, CO is the largest US-based carrier to Mexico. American is also ahead of Delta in most categories to Mexico as well.

I think AA is still #1 to Mexico in terms of ASMs (someone please correct me if I'm wrong - but I think the #s have been posted before proving it), due to mostly mainline heavy frequency, but CO is definitely #1 in total destinations.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:08 am



Quoting RedEye (Reply 90):
CO is definitely #1 in total destinations.

30 destinations (if I am not mistaken)

Loreto
Los Cabos
Chihuahua
Monclova
Torreon
Monterrey
Durango
Mazatlan
Aguacalientes
Tampico
Veracruz
Guadalajara
San Luis Potosi
Queretaro
Puerto Vallarta
Leon/Guanajuato
Morelia
Toluca
Manzanillo
Ixtapa/Zihuataneo
Mexico City
Puebla
Villahermosa
Cancun
Cozumel
Ciudad del Carmen
Merida
Oaxaca
Huatulco
Saltillo
You can't cure stupid
 
codc10
Posts: 2662
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:29 am



Quoting RedEye (Reply 90):

I think AA is still #1 to Mexico in terms of ASMs (someone please correct me if I'm wrong - but I think the #s have been posted before proving it), due to mostly mainline heavy frequency, but CO is definitely #1 in total destinations.

A previous poster offered these numbers from 9/2007:

AA: 2,316,730 (includes Eagle)
CO: 2,559,751 (includes ExpressJet)

The numbers quoted are RPMs, not ASMs, but based roughly on September 07 data from both carriers, you can roughly estimate ASMs:

AA Latin America LF 75.2%
CO Latin America LF 74.7%

Using simple math you can figure very roughly:

AA approx. 3,080,758 ASMs
CO approx. 3,426,708 ASMs

Given this data, I think it would be safe to assume that CO has taken the lead in terms of ASMs as well.
 
codc10
Posts: 2662
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:31 am

I can't emphasize 'roughly' enough, as my multiple uses of the word in that previous post would attest!
 
L1011Lover
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:16 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:45 am



Quoting Panamair (Reply 75):
Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 46):
And if you take into account PA's huge intra-Europe and intra-German services combined with their transatlantic operation they definitely had a more extensive European network than both DL and CO.

Pan Am never had as many daily nonstops between the US and Europe as DL and CO currently do. PA did fly bigger planes so maybe from an ASM perspective it could be close. However, PA did serve more cities in Europe than either DL or CO currently do, especially since PA did use its IGS operation out of TXL to many smaller cities such as Kiel, Dortmund, Westerland/Sylt, Hanover, Strasbourg, in addition to the usual HAM, STR, FRA, NUE, MUC, etc.

That's exatly what I meant by saying "take into account PA's huge intra-Europe and intra-German (IGS) services.

Best regards

L1011Lover
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:15 am



Quoting ScottishLaddie (Reply 82):
It's not true BRS loads are normally pretty healthy, certainly not half empty.

Thanks to the UK's CAA, we don't have to guess at this.

Assuming a daily 175-seat 757 EWR-BRS round trip, CO carried an average per flight of 143 pax (81.7% LF) in August, 157 pax (89.7% LF) in September, and 151(86.3% LF) in October.

Not too shabby.
 
ThePalauan
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:56 pm

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:45 am



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 63):
Is the LAX-HNL route going 752 for sure? PC timetable doesn't show it. If that happens HNL goes from a 767 maintenance base to one with a trhu flight and 3 turns per day with the longest being 4:30 and the other two turns under three hours. How would that affect the 764 that rotates thru GUM for GUM-NRT (2 roundtrips)?

That shouldn't be too much of an issue. The 764 arriving in the afternoon from HNL will just sit on the ground until the next morning and then it'll be sent to NRT. The aircraft coming in from NRT in the early morning can be turned around in time to fly to HNL. Right now, flight 964 I think arrives just after 1 AM with flight 2 for HNL/IAH leaving at about 7 AM. That's enough time. The aircraft doing flight 1 gets in at just under 7 PM and the NRT flight the next day leaves around 7 AM. That just means that we'll have a 767 out here getting rotated every now and then.

Although I feel nuts for suggesting it, I say take that one 767 for NRT, return it to CO for Europe service and have 2-4 752s make their way back here. That way, we can probably add some flights to HNL, augment Japan routes, and maybe even return to Noumea! Then again, that's just wishful thinking on my part.
You can take the boy out of the island, but not the island out of the boy!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:25 pm



Quoting CODC10 (Reply 88):
In terms of daily departures and ASMs, CO is the largest US-based carrier to Mexico. American is also ahead of Delta in most categories to Mexico as well.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 83):
The reality is that DL is a larger airline overall and serves more cities worldwide - largely driven by its domestic system. In terms of total international system traffic, CO and DL are very close to the same size for the year to date. Based on next summer's schedule, DL should pass CO. Depending on what CO does with its 787s and depending on how many more 777s DL buys (recent exec comments are that they want more than the 8 on order but they are not interested in the 787 for now), CO and DL could flip flop back and forth in total international size for the next several years - probably to be ended only by consolidation in the industry.

Once again, each airline has particular strengths in certain regions of the world, including CO. Nonetheless, the size order of the big six US airlines is AA, UA, DL, CO, NW, and US with UA and DL the closest to each other than any other 2 airlines. In terms of int'l networks, CO and DL are the two closest airlines but based on 2008 published schedules, DL will be larger than CO in overall international as well as total network size.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13981
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:12 pm



Quoting ThePalauan (Reply 96):
Although I feel nuts for suggesting it, I say take that one 767 for NRT, return it to CO for Europe service and have 2-4 752s make their way back here. That way, we can probably add some flights to HNL, augment Japan routes, and maybe even return to Noumea! Then again, that's just wishful thinking on my part

The 757-200s should stay at EWR to continue to expand Trans-Atlantic flying, either send some of the former ATA 757-300s or acquire some additional 757-300s and certify them for ETOPs operations. Base a couple 757-300s at Guam to operate GUM-NRT, NGO, MNL etc.. Keep the HNL-GUM 767-400 flight as an extension of one of the IAH-HNL flights.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3086
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:22 pm



Quoting ThePalauan (Reply 96):
Although I feel nuts for suggesting it, I say take that one 767 for NRT, return it to CO for Europe service and have 2-4 752s make their way back here. That way, we can probably add some flights to HNL, augment Japan routes, and maybe even return to Noumea! Then again, that's just wishful thinking on my part.

Based on CO's widebody shortage, I tend to agree with you if cargo is not a huge deal on the GUM-NRT route. It would be most likely that more 738 aircraft would be swapped out instead of 752 aircraft as everything from GUM except GUM-SYD (not flown now) is within 738 range. Service GUM-NOU would probably be weight restricted with the 738 at about 300 miles longer than EWR-SFO.

Now, depending on cargo, HNL-GUM could be operated with 752 equipment at 3801 miles (100 less than TXL-EWR) depending on headwinds. But, I doubt CO would add two 752s to the Pacific to remove one 764.

With GUM getting more military, CO could extend the LAX-HNL 752 to GUM as an extra flight, but it would take an extra aircraft. If that were done, the 752 could operate LAX 0800 HNL 1130-1300, GUM 1705-1845 HNL-0555-0745 LAX1355. The 764 HNL-GUM could be delayed to something like 1700 to make the IAH and EWR connection, but it would require EWR-HNL to be moved up from 1320 to something like 1000 and I don't know the ramifications of that move or irf there's significant EWR-GUM traffic in the first place.. The net would be the 752 arriving in LAX at 1355 instead of the next morning at 0500.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos