28L28L
Topic Author
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Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:49 pm

Can anyone tell me when Delta finally ended their seasonal operation at Juneau? I thought it was sometme around the early '90s, but am not sure. Thanks for amy help.
 
simairlinenet
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:21 pm

The last flight from Juneau was on 27 September 2006.
 
Frostbite
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:29 pm

DL's most recent JNU service flew SEA-JNU-FAI and return on a 727, on a seasonal basis (~May - Sept.).

Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 1):
The last flight from Juneau was on 27 September 2006.

I cannot recall the exact year that it ended - but it was WELL before 2006, of that I am sure. I was a DL ramp rat at FAI from '95 till DL's pulled out in '01 - and DL pulled out of JNU well before that. Anyway, I think DL's last summer in JNU was 1998 or so.

Oddly enough, DL flew a 757 into JNU (without pax) to certify the type for operations there (approach and departure operations at JNU are very, shall we say, "unique"). This was done, IIRC, just after what turned out to be the last season of operations. Deltoids in AK found it very odd that DL dropped JNU, after apparently seeking to upgauge equipment on the service. We speculated that the service was doomed by a "quid pro quo" arrangement with Alaska Airlines, whereby AS maintained their lucrative monopoly on the JNU market (with DL benefiting someplace else). Only speculation though....

JNU was notorious for weather cancellations due to the terrain and soupy weather of the region. Northbound flights frequently overflew JNU and came directly to FAI. I once read a graffito at a men's urinal in JNU: "DELTA - We love to fly - it's the landing we don't like". (recall these were the days of the "We love to fly and it shows" jingle).

Hope this helps. Would love to see DL return to JNU (as they have to FAI on a season), but wouldn't hold my breath...
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:43 pm



Quoting Frostbite (Reply 2):
We speculated that the service was doomed by a "quid pro quo" arrangement with Alaska Airlines, whereby AS maintained their lucrative monopoly on the JNU market (with DL benefiting someplace else). Only speculation though....

Im just curious where such an agreement could have been made. I cant think of any area where AS may have drawn down service or pulled out and DL was able to benefit. None. If I had to guess, I would guess that DL pulled out because the profit vs. costs didn't make it worth their while.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:47 pm



Quoting 28L28L (Thread starter):
The last flight from Juneau was on 27 September 2006.

????????? Dont you mean FAI? When did DL recently serve Juneau?
 
N1120A
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:21 pm



Quoting Frostbite (Reply 2):
DL's most recent JNU service flew SEA-JNU-FAI and return on a 727,

Actually, the flight went LAX-SEA-JNU-FAI, and it was a remnant of the old Western service on the same route.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Lono
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:13 pm



Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 1):
September 2006.

Nope

Quoting Frostbite (Reply 2):
1998 or so

I opened JNU with WA in 1982.... was leveled out of JNU in 1988 had to go to DFW... YIPPPEEE!!!
DL maintained check in counter staff and farmed out the ramp to AS in 1989/90 ish... went seasonal 1991 and as I recall pulled out 1992ish...

Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 1):
We speculated that the service was doomed by a "quid pro quo" arrangement with Alaska Airlines, whereby AS maintained their lucrative monopoly on the JNU market (with DL benefiting someplace else). Only speculation though....

Nope.... problem with DL in JNU was marketing and aircraft deployment... the flight in the summer supported the FAI Princess Tours customers and the flight often only had 20 or 30 seats to sell out of JNU... In the winter... the WX was the problem and DL would overfly quite often and people in would not book on DL because they knew AS would get them out of JNU... Plus people in JNU are very addicted to their AS FF miles... which means that ANY carrier flying into JNU would not be successful

Quoting Frostbite (Reply 2):
due to the terrain and soupy weather of the region. Northbound flights frequently overflew JNU and came directly to FAI.

Southbound also.... many DL customers got to be standby PAX on the next AS flight
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
N1120A
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:20 pm



Quoting Lono (Reply 6):
I recall pulled out 1992ish...

I believe 1992 may have been the last year, and the year I flew the flight.

Quoting Lono (Reply 6):

Southbound also.... many DL customers got to be standby PAX on the next AS flight

The time I flew the DL flight, I spent an extra day in JNU because DL missed the approach twice. My uncle worked at Juneau tower at the time and was used to DL's standard plan when the soup would envelope Juneau. They would attempt 2 approaches, if the second was missed they would continue on to SEA as that was the amount of gas they put on. They would then either send PAX on AS standby or pick them up the next day. I almost spent another day in Juneau, as DL missed once on the next day, but an AS 737 got in and essentially "poked a hole" for Delta to come in behind them.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Lono
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:36 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
DL's standard plan

Usually if the fog was real bad (common in JNU) they would not even shoot an approach.... many times the flight crew would radio that they had decided to just head to SEA and not attempt an approach.... sadly AS would sneak one in about the time we would announce in the terminal that DL had overheaded... working for DL in JNU was very disappointing...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
searpqx
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:59 pm



Quoting Lono (Reply 6):
Plus people in JNU are very addicted to their AS FF miles... which means that ANY carrier flying into JNU would not be successful

The sad thing is, when WA originally re-opened the station, they opened it with a very competitive flight schedule, with two NB and 3 SB frequencies, plenty to match up against AS. This was just months before the advent of the FQTV programs and they had a small window to win the locals loyalty on schedule and price. Unfortunately they started facing the WX issues almost immediately, and after a promising first summer, by the second year their north bound loads were abysmal. Southbound was a little better, but from 84 on they just kept pulling down schedule, until it was only for summer traffic and locals didn't bother unless AS was full.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
N1120A
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:40 am



Quoting Lono (Reply 8):

Usually if the fog was real bad (common in JNU) they would not even shoot an approach.... many times the flight crew would radio that they had decided to just head to SEA and not attempt an approach....

It was quite interesting actually, as back in those pre-TSA days, my uncle's FAA ID got us past every line, including security. That meant that we could essentially leave his house in Auke Bay no more than an hour before the scheduled departure and still be in plenty of time. We were actually in the car and heard Delta miss once and then twice and my uncle just turned back, knowing the result without having to ask. He just called up and confirmed what he already knew.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Lono
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:25 am



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 9):
by the second year their north bound loads were abysmal

Yup about the time WA decided to quit the JNU-ANC flights in favor of JNU-FAI flights.... quote Harold A. in LAX... "We are competing with ourselves flying ANC-JNU-SEA... and the JNU-FAI flight was very popular with PA back in the day"... In JNU we went WTF....????
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:53 am



Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 1):
The last flight from Juneau was on 27 September 2006.

Actually the last Delta revenue flight was September of 1996 not 2006. Several years later a Delta RJ flight flew into Juneau carrying the Olympic torch (Olympic flame) when the torch visited all fifty state capitals, leading up to for the 2002 winter games.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
simairlinenet
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 1):
The last flight from Juneau was on 27 September 2006.

Apologies. 27 September 1996--according to the DOT database I use at work.

[Edited 2007-11-26 18:58:33]
 
Lono
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:58 am



Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 12):
Actually the last Delta revenue flight was September of 1996 not 2006.

Nope...
I took an early retirement in 1995... and DL was no where in sight then... I used to have to fly into JNU on AS because DL had left the building... I remember flying in and being very bummed seeing our old ticket counter vacant..(still is)... I would have non rev'd if DL still flew in there in 96... check your records.... I am pretty sure it was history in 92ish... remember I opened the station in 82 for WA... And I have family there and my wife and kids would non rev in the summer... in 96 they may have had a charter but no scheduled flights...I had moved back to JNU in 95... AS was using DL's old gate...and AS was buying DL's freight building...from Wings of Alaska (135 JNU carrier who bought it and all their ground service equipment from DL when they left)... not a widget in sight...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
WNCrew
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:00 am

I moved to JNU in '96 and DL was there. I think they left either that year, or in '97, but I DEFINiTELY remember seeing their 727's there.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Chugach
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:38 am

With the more advanced approach technologies in place at JNU now, as opposed to the 80's and 90's, it would definitely be nice to see a second carrier go into Juneau at least seasonally. But like others have said, I'm not holding my breath.

However, with DL's west coast re-build-up, it would be nice to see a JNU flight come back, similar to DL's summer return to FAI.

I've also heard that JNU's landing fees are exorbitantly high, any truth to that?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:49 am

Quick search of news articles on Lexis shows last flight 27 September 1996, but the announcement that the seasonal service will be discontinued was not made until after the last flight - 19 December 1996.
a.
 
Lono
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:00 am



Quoting Chugach (Reply 16):
I've also heard that JNU's landing fees are exorbitantly high, any truth to that?

Indeed.... landing fees and rent there were the second highest in the DL system... right under NRT.... we were paying over $15 a square foot for rent .... for counter space... bagwell space was $11.00 a square foot... plus DL owned a freight facility from when WA was forced out in the 70's by the CAB so AS could survive... I know this because I was number 2 there.... also interesting tid bit.... when WA pulled out of the JNU-ANC market... the station manager of JNU, FAI and the line maintenance manger in ANC tendered their resignations.... they quit when WA gave up the good fight with AS... the end was in sight..... I stayed knowing it was only a matter of time... sad because we had 5 flights a day... all full and overbooked every day until that point in WA history... sigh... at that time WA had 450 emlpoyees in ANC..... and from that poor decision and DL's bad decisions to give up the ground handling for the other carriers in ANC the people count went to less than 15 employees.... bummer... DL gave up in Alaska and the people here know that and they have since reguarded DL as just another seasonal carrier...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
Lono
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:02 am



Quoting WNCrew (Reply 15):
I moved to JNU in '96 and DL was there. I think they left either that year, or in '97, but I DEFINiTELY remember seeing their 727's there.

No service there... I was commuting with my family... long gone at that point... re-check your memory...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
sq452
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:22 am

No when we flew to Alaska (ANC) in the mid 90's I remember picking up one of the timetable booklets (remember those days when they had them in the aircraft?!!!) and they had Juneau service back then...so it was definitely mid 90's.
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
MUWarriors
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:22 am



Quoting Lono (Reply 19):
No service there... I was commuting with my family... long gone at that point... re-check your memory...

Actually a quick Google search shows that DL service in JNU lasted seasonally until 1996, year-round service ended in 1993, just as others had said. I didn't pay for the whole press release, but here is a link that has the initial information on it about ending seasonal service dated December 17, 1996:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18957392.html
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:23 am



Quoting SQ452 (Reply 20):
No when we flew to Alaska (ANC) in the mid 90's I remember picking up one of the timetable booklets (remember those days when they had them in the aircraft?!!!) and they had Juneau service back then...so it was definitely mid 90's.

Correct. As already stated many times, it was 27 September 1996, although they never had an "official" final flight, because they decided to end service in-between the summer seasons.
a.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:44 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
The time I flew the DL flight, I spent an extra day in JNU because DL missed the approach twice. My uncle worked at Juneau tower at the time and was used to DL's standard plan when the soup would envelope Juneau. They would attempt 2 approaches, if the second was missed they would continue on to SEA as that was the amount of gas they put on

and it's not like they can then pop the pax on a bus up to JNU when that happens is it?  Big grin
 
AF773
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:05 pm

I remember ages ago (and by that I mean at least 18 years ago) flying to PDX on a DL 727 continuing on to both Juneau and Fairbanks.
I cant remeber if my flight departed from SFO or LAX, I think LAX. It was also one of my last 727 flights.

AF773
Next flights: SAN-LAX-CDG; ORY-BIQ-ORY; ORY-TLN-ORY; CDG-SLC-SNA; TIJ-MEX-PVR-MEX-TIJ; LAX-CDG; NCE-CDG-LAX
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:12 pm



Quoting AF773 (Reply 24):

Going back 11 years now, if memory serves me. The DL flight northbound which flew to Juneau originated at SLC, flew to LAX, up to SEA. then up to Juneau (JNU) then up to FAI (Fairbanks)

I seem to recall DL Seattle departure time was about 45 minutes after AS last flight to JNU departed SEA, if you missed the last AS flight ouf of Seattle in the early PM, DL would sometimes honor AS tickets for the flight.

If the weather was marginal at Juneau it was usually beneficial to stay in SEA, unless you were a gambler and possibly wanted to visit FAI. The below weather minimums at JNU allowed for a shopping spree in SEA before the flight departed SEA they would book them on the next evenings flight.

The DL flight southbound flight out of FAI to JNU departed at zero dark thirty (about 0500) and landed in JNU (well most of the time) just before 0800.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
atct
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:02 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
It was quite interesting actually, as back in those pre-TSA days, my uncle's FAA ID got us past every line, including security.

I remember those days. They (TSA) often look at me now and go "Whats the FAA?" when I show them my ID to go through security....sad.

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
searpqx
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:07 pm



Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 25):
If the weather was marginal at Juneau it was usually beneficial to stay in SEA, unless you were a gambler and possibly wanted to visit FAI. The below weather minimums at JNU allowed for a shopping spree in SEA before the flight departed SEA they would book them on the next evenings flight.

An unofficial sport for those of us in Juneau during the 70s-90s (pre HUD & SatNav) was comparing overflight stories - with the winner being the person making the most unsuccessful attempts to get home. My record was 3 days, 9 flights.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
N1120A
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:20 pm



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 23):

and it's not like they can then pop the pax on a bus up to JNU when that happens is it?

Nope, and a boat would have taken way too long.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Frostbite
Posts: 220
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:52 pm



Quoting Lono (Reply 19):
No service there... I was commuting with my family... long gone at that point... re-check your memory...

Be assured, DL served JNU seasonally in 1995 and 1996. I worked these flights on the FAI end (and non-revved through, or just as frequently over, JNU on a regular basis). Perhaps you were commuting outside of the summer window.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Quick search of news articles on Lexis shows last flight 27 September 1996, but the announcement that the seasonal service will be discontinued was not made until after the last flight - 19 December 1996.

Yup, this jives. DL announced they were scrapping the service *after* the close of the summer season.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 3):
If I had to guess, I would guess that DL pulled out because the profit vs. costs didn't make it worth their while.

You are probably correct, but the AS conspiracy theory made for much better banter around the FAI bagwell at oh-dark-thirty! IIRC, the rationale behind DL's proposed upgauge to 757 (as stated to frontline employees by DL's regional manager at the time) was to allow more cargo lift out of JNU (cargo, in this case, spelled F-I-S-H....perhaps with a smattering of geoducks etc.). DL sure packed the 727s full of the stuff, at least for portions of the season.

In any case, perhaps the "fish haul" deal never materialized, or DL just decided to send the 757 to greener pastures elsewhere. At the time, however, it seemed very odd to go to the trouble of putting a 757 through its paces at JNU for a few days, only to scrap service altogether weeks later.

As has been pointed out, DL's service was not as reliable as AS's anyway...the average DL flight crew didn't have much experience with that operating environment. This, coupled with the seasonal service, did not encourage locals to be loyal customers...
 
Lono
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:24 pm



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 27):
An unofficial sport for those of us in Juneau

I remember (or so it seems my memory is fading!!)... but anywho.... in 1987 there was a period of 11 days that no jets got in.... AS or DL.... bad timing also as it was right during the xmas rush... got so bad we would change our uniforms at work before we went out in public .... people would see your uniform while you were shopping and they would start screaming at you.... very interesting experience...

Quoting Frostbite (Reply 29):
Be assured, DL served JNU seasonally in 1995 and 1996

See above in parentheses.... the 80's took a toll on my brain I guess..... I asked my wife (retired from DL also) about when they pulled out and she said she remembers non reving to JNU in 96.... Maybe my last flight on DL to JNU was 92ish...

I stand corrected....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
28L28L
Topic Author
Posts: 274
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:38 pm

Thanks to all who responded with your various accounts. I enjoyed them all. Thanks again!
 
L-188
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RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:55 am



Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 12):
Several years later a Delta RJ flight flew into Juneau carrying the Olympic torch (Olympic flame) when the torch visited all fifty state capitals, leading up to for the 2002 winter games.

Which resulted in the infamous, "Bong Hits for Jesus" USSC case.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: Delta At Juneau (question)

Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:46 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 32):
Which resulted in the infamous, "Bong Hits for Jesus" USSC case.

YUP!

jeezz what a goat rope that continues to be....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!

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