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Revelation
Posts: 22681
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:59 pm



Quoting Aerofan (Reply 34):
He probably wanted to get away from the wifey

She's moving to settle the estate, so he better move fast!

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):

Incredible how in the most advanced nation in the world an airplane can take off for a sightseeing flight and dissapear off the face of the Earth......

Hey, it happened to Gilligan, the Skipper, Maryanne, Ginger and the Howells, so it can happen to anybody!

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 47):
I can also say I was flying a c-172 20 dme from the ANC airport and I could hear no one and no one could hear me. Had I gone down in one of the crevasses on the glacier I was flying over no one would have found me until the end of the next ice age. You often hear of a hiker that finds a long lost plane that's twisted and broken in the hills and trees.

Yep, the crash site could be as small as an impact crater no bigger than the wingspan of a Decathalon. All the metal crumples, the fabric folds, etc. It's a tiny blotch on a huge landscape.

Quoting Chuchoteur (Reply 50):
If Steve Fossett crashed in a gully and the wreckage rolled underneath terrain/brush, you'd have to trip over it to find it.

 checkmark 

Well, Steve, I hope you went out with a smile on your face.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
alfa75
Posts: 488
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 11:27 am

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:48 am



Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 49):
The article on CNN mentions that they found wreckage from *8* different crashes during the search for Fossett. That tells me that:

1. they looked pretty carefully, and
2. the terrain is *very* rugged

Someone told me recently that some of those wrecks were actually found for the first time since they crashed, possibly decades ago, but I have no link to back up that assertion.

I believe the most recent issue of National Geographic Adventure (Dec 07/Jan08) has a great article on how the search for Steve Fossett.
It is the one with a picture of Sir Richard on the cover.

Below is from the press release for that issue.....

http://press.nationalgeographic.com/..._detail&siteID=1&cid=1195134512484

THE VANISHING -- Millionaire aviator Steve Fossett — the first to both balloon and fly around the world nonstop -- took off for a pleasure cruise above the Nevada desert and never returned. In a special report, National Geographic Adventure Contributing Editor James Vlahos investigates why the largest manhunt for a person on U.S. soil in search-and-rescue history has failed to find a trace. "The vanishing act was inexplicable and complete, publicity-generating and speculation-inducing -- a loss comparable to one of aviation's greatest unsolved mysteries, the disappearance of Amelia Earhart. How could a celebrated pilot go down on such a benign flight? And how could such an extensive search come up empty?" wonders Vlahos. "A close examination of the effort to find Fossett reveals that state and local officials did have ideas --too many of them, perhaps. The vastness of the search area combined with the hundreds of leads, most of them false, may have overwhelmed investigators so that a few key pieces of information were obscured."


You would not have come to those conclusions after reading this article.
The best things in life aren't things!
 
socalfive
Posts: 474
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:21 pm

Back in 1997 or so there was what I think was a C182 recovered in the Rincon mountains east of Tucson that had been missing for something like 10 years. Turns out it was probably a drug smuggler because when they found the wreckage there was about a million in rotting decaying cash on board along with three bodies in about the same shape. This flight originated at Palomar north of San Diego and there had been an extensive search for it and never found. So, more than likely, Steve Fossett's wreckage will one day be found.
 
hangarrat
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:24 pm

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:08 pm



Quoting Socalfive (Reply 53):
Back in 1997 or so there was what I think was a C182 recovered in the Rincon mountains east of Tucson that had been missing for something like 10 years.

It think this is what you're thinking of:
http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_i...214X40750&ntsbno=LAX84FA504&akey=1

Here are some others in the NTSB database:

Missing 32 years: http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001218X45447&key=1
Missing 16 months, not reported for 32 years: http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_i...025X01555&ntsbno=NYC07LA005&akey=1
Missing 13 years: http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_i...213X34665&ntsbno=ANC86FA167&akey=1

Seems like there should be many more, but it takes some creative queries to find them.
Spell check is a false dog
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:58 am

Slightly off-topic here, but how far is Area 51/Groom Lake from the area Fossett was scouting & disappeared from?
(insert theme from Twilight Zone here)
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:07 pm

One of these days, someone will find - the wreckage/Steve/a major clue -- until then, let his family rest in peace. I would only hope that he was not hurt in a crash and suffered - better, much better to picture him dead. In a way, this is a good lesson - no matter your skills, no matter your plane, no matter your preparations - there are still unknowns out there, right in the middle of the US
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:03 am



Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 56):
no matter your skills, no matter your plane, no matter your preparations - there are still unknowns out there, right in the middle of the US

Well I am tempted to ask what were his skills and qualifications as a pilot??? ...Had he ever flown in any capacity as a professional aviator ???
 
BlueSkys
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:58 am

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:58 am



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 57):
Well I am tempted to ask what were his skills and qualifications as a pilot??? ...Had he ever flown in any capacity as a professional aviator ???

He was a fine pilot, a record setter. No need to question his qualifications, he was more than qualified and a very experienced pilot.
 
Legallykev
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:08 pm

Don't you have to wait a full year before you can pronounce somebody legally dead??
 
TSS
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:54 pm



Quoting Legallykev (Reply 59):
Don't you have to wait a full year before you can pronounce somebody legally dead??

I think you're correct, but that's in normal cases where, for example, someone leaves for work one morning and doesn't come home and you have no idea what happened to them. While this is the bones of the case with Mr. Fossett, the extenuating circumstances make the difference:
A. We know with 95% certainty that his plane went down;
B. He was lost in some of the most rugged, remote, and unforgiving terrain in the continental US;
C. If he were alive and ambulatory after the crash, he would most likely have found some way to get back to civilization by either signaling search planes or hoofing it to a road and/or a telephone;
D. If he were alive and not ambulatory after the crash, the harsh fall-going-into-winter weather in the area where he went down would most certainly have finished him off by now if his injuries didn't.

If Mr. Fossett had been lost in a heavily-wooded area such as Maine or the Pacific Northwest, then there would be the remote chance that he was sheltering in a hunter's or logger's cabin with no phone connection, but in the lower Sierra Nevada range there is little likelihood of this.
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User avatar
Revelation
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:10 pm



Quoting Legallykev (Reply 59):
Don't you have to wait a full year before you can pronounce somebody legally dead??

I guess that didn't work out so well in the recent case of the guy in the UK who faked his death in a canoe accident and collected the insurance....

Quoting TSS (Reply 60):

If Mr. Fossett had been lost in a heavily-wooded area such as Maine or the Pacific Northwest, then there would be the remote chance that he was sheltering in a hunter's or logger's cabin with no phone connection, but in the lower Sierra Nevada range there is little likelihood of this.

Suppose so, but there's always the possibility he had accomplices waiting for him somewhere. All you would need is equipment to cut the plane down to a reasonable size and a backhoe to bury the evidence. Elapsed time would be a half an hour if it was planned well. If you can arrange a balloon trip around the world, setting this up would be childs play.

As for motive, who knows?

Sorry, but the TV writers are on strike, and I have to do something to fill my desire for cheezy plot lines...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Sketty222
Posts: 904
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:23 pm

He's living in a flat in Panama along with the guy from the UK who went missing in his Canoe  Smile

I think its awfully strange that he didnt want to/ chose not to file a flightplan. Why would you not want to do this?
I think he has disappeared on purpose and wanted a bit of mystery at the end of his career

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
Legallykev
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:09 pm

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:52 pm



Quoting TSS (Reply 60):
TSS

Makes sense. Thanks!
 
TSS
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:29 pm



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 62):
I think its awfully strange that he didnt want to/ chose not to file a flightplan. Why would you not want to do this?

A flight plan is only useful if you are traveling from point "A" to point "B", wherein you'd follow a predictable path at a given speed and you'd have an expected ETA at point "B". Mr. Fossett was going to fly around and look for a dry lake bed suitable for a land speed record attempt. Since there are a crap-load of dry lake beds in that area, most of which aren't on maps in any great detail, there was no specific flight plan to file. "Around" is not a definitive trajectory, and the terminus of his flight was to have been the same as the departure point.
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eksath
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:28 am



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 62):
I think its awfully strange that he didnt want to/ chose not to file a flightplan. Why would you not want to do this?

Are you aware of that a large number of pilots DO NOT file a flight plan for leisure or sightseeing flights ?
World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:44 am



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 57):
Well I am tempted to ask what were his skills and qualifications as a pilot??? ...Had he ever flown in any capacity as a professional aviator ???

Are you saying that only pros are good pilots? The two are not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of non-professional pilots that are better fliers than you and I. Similarly, there are many commercial pilots who consistently exercise poor judgment and have sloppy skills. I have no idea as to the skills of Mr Fossett. But he may have been an exceptional pilot despite never having been employed as such.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 61):
the recent case of the guy in the UK who faked his death in a canoe accident and collected the insurance....

Whoa there. Hold your horses, let's let the police investigation and any judicial proceedings take place before we condemn this guy.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:24 am



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 66):
Are you saying that only pros are good pilots? The two are not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of non-professional pilots that are better fliers than you and I. Similarly, there are many commercial pilots who consistently exercise poor judgment and have sloppy skills. I have no idea as to the skills of Mr Fossett. But he may have been an exceptional pilot despite never having been employed as such.

As you say you have no idea and neither do I.
Really my only point is that employed pilots have almost certainly and frequently had other professional pilots pass judgement on their skill or lack of and so are a "known quantity". And incidentally I do agree that skill varies enormously amongst professional pilots. But as you are bandying around the word exceptional I take the view that a man must have been judged by his peers to qualify for such adornment. For instance I would accept that those men chosen to be Blue Angels pilots or hand picked to become astronauts are very likely exceptional pilots.
However, in regard to Steve Fossett. ...Well he had the benefit of a truck load of money (quite like the famous Howard Hughes) with which clearly he could buy himself into almost any front seat ride he liked and perhaps regardless of whether he had exceptional piloting skill or otherwise. For that reason and at least as a "safe aviator" he may have been an unknown quantity.
...I have seen the evidence and I acknowledge that Steve Fossett had "exceptional physical endurance" and which obviously facilitated his achievements, but I have definitely not seen sufficient evidence to construe that he was an exceptional pilot.
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:29 am

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:37 pm

Given the terrain, given the situation, given the plane, given the circumstances -- I don't think Steve Fossett's pilot skills are a necessary subject. Something happened, we don't know what. Nothing to do with his skills or lack of skills. I suspect nothing to do with the plane, and/or flight plan or lack of.

I do wish the remains could be found, only to let his wife unwind and relax, and to put the rumors to bed
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:25 am



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 67):
...I have seen the evidence and I acknowledge that Steve Fossett had "exceptional physical endurance" and which obviously facilitated his achievements, but I have definitely not seen sufficient evidence to construe that he was an exceptional pilot.

I absolutely agree. But we have no indication that he wasn't either. Hence my objections to your implications in reply 57.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:27 am



Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 68):
Given the terrain, given the situation, given the plane, given the circumstances

The only thing we know about the above is the type of plane he was flying. All the other variables, plus the human variable as well, are unknown and may or may not have played a role in the disappearance.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:59 pm



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 69):
I absolutely agree. But we have no indication that he wasn't either. Hence my objections to your implications in reply 57.

I don't think I implied anything, but anyway the following Steve Fossett adventure makes an interesting comparison with the original flight by two British heroes in 1919, ...quoted from Steve Fossett's website:-

"3 July 2005 - 1604 GMT - Clifden, Galway, Ireland: American pilot Steve Fossett and co-pilot / navigator Mark Rebholz successfully re-created the historic, first-ever non-stop 1919 TransAtlantic flight of John Alcock and Arthur Whitten Brown today, landing their replica of the British pair's Vickers Vimy biplane on hole 8A of the Connemara Golf Links just after 5 pm local time".

I find it rather curious that Steve Fossett and his copilot Mark Rebholtz took 18hours 15minutes to fly the North Atlantic in the replica Vickers Vimy below, ..."almost two hours longer than the original British heroes Alcock(pilot) and Brown(navigator) had taken in 1919" ...And Steve had the benefit of GPS, modern weather forecasting, modern 600hp engines (as opposed to 360hp engines in the original aircraft) and a 20,000hour 747 captain (who incidentally had conducted all the test flying on the replica Vimy) acting as his navigator.

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threepoint
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:11 pm



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 71):
And Steve had the benefit of GPS, modern weather forecasting, modern 600hp engines (as opposed to 360hp engines in the original aircraft) and a 20,000hour 747 captain

Yep, I agree. It kind of takes the sport out of it. I liken these 'adventures' to modern-day Native bands hunting whales in the 'traditional' manner, only this time using twin-outboard zodiac craft with spotting scopes and hunting rifles. If you're going to re-create the experience, be faithful to the resources they had back in the day.

I have to admit, having the technological aids and a vast support network removes all the exhilaration, accomplishment and genuine worry the two original flyers must have felt. Perhaps you've personally noticed the difference today's advances make from your first light-plane solo transatlantic ferry compared to your most recent one?
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:17 pm



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 72):
Perhaps you've personally noticed the difference today's advances make from your first light-plane solo transatlantic ferry compared to your most recent one?

Yes GPS makes navigation over the North Atlantic very much easier.
 
TSS
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RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:19 pm



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 71):
I find it rather curious that Steve Fossett and his copilot Mark Rebholtz took 18hours 15minutes to fly the North Atlantic in the replica Vickers Vimy below, ..."almost two hours longer than the original British heroes Alcock(pilot) and Brown(navigator) had taken in 1919" ...And Steve had the benefit of GPS, modern weather forecasting, modern 600hp engines (as opposed to 360hp engines in the original aircraft) and a 20,000hour 747 captain (who incidentally had conducted all the test flying on the replica Vimy) acting as his navigator.

But did Fossett have the benefit of a favorable tail wind? Did Alcock? In a plane that flies as low and slow as that one surely does, small differences in conditions can make for big differences in trip duration.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:20 pm



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 73):
Yes GPS makes navigation over the North Atlantic very much easier.

Indeed. Helps eliminate the dreaded reverse homing error from a beacon in NE Labrador on a wintry January night. You wouldn't catch me taking off without two on board were I to make that flight.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:38 pm



Quoting TSS (Reply 74):
But did Fossett have the benefit of a favorable tail wind? Did Alcock? In a plane that flies as low and slow as that one surely does, small differences in conditions can make for big differences in trip duration.

Yes of course, but I have also seen a comment in print in a popular aviation magazine that quoted Mark Rebholtz saying that Steve Fossett was often 30degrees off heading. Those guys who are aviators and familiar with the 1 in 60 rule will easily imagine what kind of difficulties that must have caused for Rebholtz who was navigating. And since Rebholtz made the comment, it also kind of infers that he felt he could have done better himself.
 
ChiefSkyHorse
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:06 pm

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:03 am

I am a old Nevada Desert Rat and gold prospector. Steve Fossett's aircraft is in some gully. If the family and Mr. Branson from Virgin really wanted to find him they would put up a reward for locating Steve Fossett, I am sure some Desert Rat would find him, may already has and awaiting an award offer. In 1993 a single engine aircraft was lost in the Las Vegas area, a father and two teen age daughters. Anyway after a great air search, and no results, the family put up a reward of $25,000. With in a month a desert rat found the aircraft about 60 miles south of Vegas.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Steve Fossett News...

Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:55 pm



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 76):
but I have also seen a comment in print in a popular aviation magazine that quoted Mark Rebholtz saying that Steve Fossett was often 30degrees off heading.

I just checked this article to make sure I was correct, as I read it a long time ago in Sept. 2005 Aeroplane magazine published in the U.K.. ...I was not quite right. So in case they can be construed in a different way; here are the exact words that appear in the magazine and as written by the editor following an exclusive interview with Mark Rebholtz shortly after he an Steve Fossett had arrived in Ireland:-

"Every once in a while I could tell when Steve was getting tired and his cross check would slow down; we'd be 30degrees off heading"

I apologise for not taking care to reproduce those words correctly the first time.

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