ShannoninAMA
Topic Author
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AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:37 pm

Our local paper has been flooding us with new "Rumors" (thats almost an overstatement) of new airlines or airline service to come to AMA after our expansion is finished.. Of course, our paper has lied to me many, many times  Wink
Example below..(about our "booming" (  sarcastic  ) service expansion" Written in August 07)

Quote:

"In May 2006, American Airlines upgraded three of its eight daily departures to Dallas-Fort Worth to the popular 70-seat jets to meet existing demand. This was followed by Continental Airlines adding two additional flights to its Saturday schedule to the Houston Intercontinental Airport for a total of five. Most recently, Southwest Airlines announced new service (Twice Daily) to the Denver International Airport. There is also another key stat you may not be aware of. Amarillo Rick Husband International Airport is inching closer and closer each year to passing the 1,000,000 passengers in a year milestone."

I guess he forgot to mention that Both Delta and ZK have abandoned AMA since 05  Wink

Since the paper is churning out more bologna then an oscar meyer factory, i felt inquired to ask for your opinions  Smile (Don't be afraid to shoot them all down...im just curious Smile )


AMA - DEN on Lynx aviation? - Or will WN's new DEN service scare any chance of that off? (ZK ended service the day before WN started theirs....which means now there is no way I can connect on F9 or UA cry  )
AMA - DFW mainline on AA? - Or is the American Eagle service doomed to be here forever?
AMA - IAH mainline on CO? - Same as above.
AMA - SLC on DL/Skywest? - Been rumored many times but im starting to lose faith in this one. i always thought a few CR2s would do the job..
AMA - ATL on DL/Skywest? - Same as above.
AMA - AUS or HOU on WN? - Ive always wondered why we are one of the few tex-centric cities without WN service to HOU or AUS....And since they seem to be slowly moving away from their texas routes, im thinking if it hasnt come by now, it wont at all. Any ideas?
AMA - Chicago on Anyone? - WN sure isnt biting at the chance, nor is UAex or AAeagle. Im thinking this one is a bust as well.
AMA - Anywhere on skybus? - Or will our "Isolated" location doom any chance of that? (AMA "Metropolitan" population = 273,000 as of July 07)



The airport expansion will give us a total of 7 gates ("easily expandable to 10") , of which 5 will be used as of now. Am i the only one that thinks the expansion will turn out to be a 35 million dollar waste?  Sad


Shan Big grin
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PanAm747
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:08 pm



Quote:
AMA - DEN on Lynx aviation? - Or will WN's new DEN service scare any chance of that off? (ZK ended service the day before WN started theirs.

I think the reason that WN is doing this route is due to the "hoops" it must jump through to provide service to DAL from airports in states that are not part of the Wright agreement. In other words, DEN-DAL is not possible yet, but DEN-AMA-DAL is acceptable. Whether or not AMA will keep this flight when the restrictions are eventually lifted remains to be seen. Right now it is my guess that it is only there to fulfill the requirements of "thru-service".

Quote:
AMA - DFW mainline on AA? - Or is the American Eagle service doomed to be here forever?
AMA - IAH mainline on CO? - Same as above.

Unless something radically changes, legacy mainline equipment - especially intra-state service - will be at AMA. Amarillo is too close (air-wise) to both DFW and IAH to support mainline equipment.

Quote:
AMA - SLC on DL/Skywest?

Of all your suggestions, this one seems to be the most likely, given DL's almost mad rush to make SLC have more destinations than DEN. If SkyWest can fill two CR2's SLC-BFL, then SLC-AMA can work as well.

Quote:
AMA - ATL on DL/Skywest?

Much less likely. O&D demand is going to be low, and virtually every location that would be accessible from DL's ATL hub is accessible from DFW or IAH, with much more frequency available.

As for Chicago flights, (a) ORD doesn't have slots available for any domestic airline, least of all another RJ, and (b) American would be just as happy routing you through DFW to ORD. As for WN, if Amarillo was in a direct path between Chicago and DAL, there might be a one-stop scheduled...but alas, it is between DAL and Denver, so that is where AMA benefits.

All this doesn't mean that hopes for new service are dead - but it will come slowly when the market dictates that it can all happen. Much like my former home airport of BFL, a new terminal might encourage new entrants, but that can take a long time nowadays!!
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jmc1975
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:16 pm

Prior to the US/HP merger, I would've said America West Express launching 2x daily CRJ-200s to PHX would be a likely scenario. However since post-merger, US seems to be looking at greater economies of scale (i.e. International serivce) to expand their network.

Skybus would be a definate no....just look at their target demographics with in a 50-mile radius:

Population Median Houshold Income
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AMA 318K 35.6K
compared to:
CMH 2,087K 45.3K
GSO 1,827K 39.7K
PSM 2,945K 54.2K
CEF 3,056K 48.7K
SWF 7,022K 55.2K
RIC 1,297K 47.2K
CHA 972K 36.5K
SGJ 1,286K 42.4K
GPT 563K 37.2K
MKE 2,606K 51.0K
MCI 2,014K 47.8K
SAN 2,807K 49.0K
BUR 13,174K 47.6K
OAK 6,442K 66.1K
BLI 2,868K 42.3K
.......
 
Queso
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:23 pm



Quoting ShannoninAMA (Thread starter):
Our local paper has been flooding us with new "Rumors" (thats almost an overstatement) of new airlines or airline service to come to AMA after our expansion is finished.

Y'all are just jealous because New Mexico Airlines announced new service to MAF yesterday and not AMA!  Wink
New Service At MAF! (by Queso Nov 28 2007 in Civil Aviation)
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ShannoninAMA
Topic Author
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:57 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
Of all your suggestions, this one seems to be the most likely, given DL's almost mad rush to make SLC have more destinations than DEN. If SkyWest can fill two CR2's SLC-BFL, then SLC-AMA can work as well.

True, and there is also the fact that we have absolutely NO connections to the west (now that WN ran ZK off). WN flies to DEN, sure, but thats only good for O&D passengers. So if skywest came in and provided connections to the west, there surely should be a fair response (Right now, you're looking at connecting in DFW if you want to fly to LAX,SFO,SEA,RNO,BUR etc..). It would be much more convenient, and is all but guranteed to work. Sad thing is, ive been preaching this for a while now...ive just about gave up on it  Wink

Quoting Queso (Reply 3):
Y'all are just jealous because New Mexico Airlines announced new service to MAF yesterday and not AMA!

 Sad Rub it in! After all...we just lost our puddle jumpers to DEN....  Wink

just out of curiosity, how long will those flights be Queso?


Shan Big grin
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rampart
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:09 am

How recent is AMA's current terminal? Is this proposed terminal an expansion of the existing terminal, or a new facility alltogether? Smaller terminals are finding a need to update facilities to keep up with TSA screening, different (smaller) aircraft, growing traffic in some cases, etc. I think there is a recent proliferation of renovations for small and medium sized airports in the US, for example BUF, ALB, ILM, off the top of my head, Places like SGF, CHY, Panama City, even ASE are proposing new terminals. It's been said that a new terminal may not attract new airlines, but poor terminals may dissuade new airlines or existing airlines.

I recall that Lubbock invested in a fine new terminal in the late 70's -- may have been the same architect as DFW IIRC. It had the capability to expand 300%, can you imagine LBB with 18 gates?? LBB saw increased use with deregulation, looks like they expanded another 3 gates since the original build. But then traffic, and the size of aircraft, tapered off. Sad to see such a nice facility underused by regional jets. But, that's the sign of the times. Many smaller and medium sized cities see the same.

-Rampart
 
eghansen
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:34 am



Quoting ShannoninAMA (Thread starter):
The airport expansion will give us a total of 7 gates ("easily expandable to 10") , of which 5 will be used as of now. Am i the only one that thinks the expansion will turn out to be a 35 million dollar waste? Sad

It may be sad, but it fits the character of Texas. All the airports in Texas are huge compared to the dreadful facilities in New York, Boston, Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco. They never seemed to have heard of an environmentalist in TX.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
Osprey88
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:08 am

It seems to me that XE might be able to find a market to/from AMA from either LGB and/or ONT seeing as how they have no direct flights to the LA area, I could see these being quite popular.... Also perhaps on the table, XE could do AUS and/or SAT.

Also, what about YX or YX connect?
"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
 
commavia
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:14 am

I was actually thinking about ORD-AMA a few weeks ago as a possible American Eagle route. It's not that much longer than some of the new one-off ORD-Gulf Coast routes Eagle has added in the last 18 months to utilize aircraft, to great success. ORD-AMA, to me, seems like a perfect once daily ERJ route, and I think the market could probably fill a single daily 44- or 50-seat jet. ORD would offer new connections to the East and Northeast, and Europe.

About the AMA terminal: I was there in January, and while it didn't seem like anything special at all - small terminal, not much going on, it also didn't seem dilapidated. It was definitely aging, no doubt, but I've seen far, far worse at airports far, far bigger than AMA. The terminal was pretty small, but seemed about right for the size of the market.
 
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drerx7
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Wa

Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:43 am



Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 7):
Also, what about YX or YX connect?

Definately a stretch - they couldn't make HOU work...so AMA is a long shot.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
Queso
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:18 pm



Quoting ShannoninAMA (Reply 4):
just out of curiosity, how long will those flights be Queso?

31 minutes (takes about 2 hours to drive). New Mexico Airlines is using Cessna 208's (Caravan) on all of their routes. They are proposing service to LBB so we'll see if that works out. If MAF and LBB are successful for them (which I am a bit skeptical of) I wouldn't be surprised to see them try AMA at some point.

Oh, one more thing to brag about- Our new terminal building has been in operation since 2000. We love it, great facility! I hope you like your new terminal too. Don't worry so much about the cost of it, 35m is not bad (Midland spent 45 million on a football and baseball stadium) and it will last so long that the cost divided over the lifespan will be very low.
 
ShannoninAMA
Topic Author
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:37 pm



Quoting Rampart (Reply 5):
How recent is AMA's current terminal?

Built in the 60s.....It was built for 727, DC-9, and 737 use. Now considering most of our flights are puddle jumpers, it makes our airport seem very out of date. The days of Braniff, Trans-Texas Air, Continental Mainline (60s!), and others are long gone.  Sad

Quoting Rampart (Reply 5):
Is this proposed terminal an expansion of the existing terminal, or a new facility alltogether?

Its a new facility all together. Both existing "Wings" of our current terminal will be torn down and replaced with one terminal  Smile.

Quoting Queso (Reply 10):
I wouldn't be surprised to see them try AMA at some point.

I guess it could be possible, ive only made the drive twice before...3-4 hours. I wonder what the C202's range is?

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 7):
It seems to me that XE might be able to find a market to/from AMA from either LGB and/or ONT seeing as how they have no direct flights to the LA area,

Doubtful, but it would be once daily if by some chance it happened. If i recall, the O&D between AMA-LAX area is somewhere in the 20s  Wink

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 7):
Also, what about YX or YX connect?

I wish Big grin Like others have said...HOU didnt work, and i doubt we could fill a D328 to MKE.

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 7):
Also perhaps on the table, XE could do AUS and/or SAT.

If XE can keep themselves alive longer then FlyI, i wouldnt be surprised to see it happen. Ive driven to SAT once, and AUS 7 times. O&D between AUS i is pretty high not to be served. Most of us end up driving or taking AA/WN via Dallas.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 8):
I was actually thinking about ORD-AMA a few weeks ago as a possible American Eagle route.

Ive been jumping at the Idea, but i doubt they care enough about us to waste a slot with an ERJ that could be used for some other route  Wink.


Keep the ideas coming Big grin

Shan  Smile
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mtnwest1979
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:09 am



Quoting ShannoninAMA (Reply 4):
True, and there is also the fact that we have absolutely NO connections to the west (now that WN ran ZK off). WN flies to DEN, sure, but thats only good for O&D passengers. So if skywest came in and provided connections to the west, there surely should be a fair response (Right now, you're looking at connecting in DFW if you want to fly to LAX,SFO,SEA,RNO,BUR etc..). It would be much more convenient, and is all but guranteed to work. Sad thing is, ive been preaching this for a while now...ive just about gave up on it

Well, can't one connect on WN thru LAS or ABQ? Are those places not west of AMA?
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ShannoninAMA
Topic Author
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:15 am



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 12):
Well, can't one connect on WN thru LAS or ABQ? Are those places not west of AMA?

The only connection I have ever gotten out of ABQ...IS LAS  Wink. and For some reason, ABQ and LAS both show up like DEN...you can fly to them, but you cant connect. However, I just found out we can do AMA-ABQ-PHX-West coast...so i was indeed wrong  Smile
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mtnwest1979
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:52 pm

Looking at current WN connections from AMA, I found the following:
Connections to:
SNA
ONT
BUR
LAX
OAK
RNO
PDX
SMF
SAN
SFO
SJC
SEA

But most require two stops, so as far as convenience, not so sure how great. I see now where the ZK to UA/F9 in DEN was more preferable.

Correct me if wrong, but at one time didnt AMA have service from DL, TI,CO,AA,BN,WN, and TW at the same time, late 70s early 80s?
That would have been a neat time to be there.
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BN727flyr
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:41 am



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 14):
Correct me if wrong, but at one time didnt AMA have service from DL, TI,CO,AA,BN,WN, and TW at the same time, late 70s early 80s?
That would have been a neat time to be there.

WN started service to AMA, I believe, in 1978.

AA started service to AMA, LBB, and MAF, as well as a number of other cities, on June 11, 1981.

TW service was reduced from a maximum of 6 flights/day at AMA (1 to each of PHX, ABQ, ICT, MCI, LAS, and STL) circa 1980 to 2 per day (1 eastbound [ICT], 1 westbound [PHX]) by 1982. TW discontinued service to AMA on Dec. 14, 1982, ending 53 years of service there.

BN and DL did not serve AMA at the same time. DL initiated service to AMA and a few other Texas cities in late 1982, IIRC, following the shutdown of BN on May 12, 1982. In fact, DL used BN's former gate, baggage, and ticketing facilities at AMA.

TI service was overtaken by CO in AMA and elsewhere following the acquisition of CO by Texas Air Corp. in 1982 and the subsequent rebranding of (what was left of) TI as CO. The last TI aircraft were seen in 1983. The TI DC-9s were replaced by CO 737s... but it wasn't long before CO began tinkering with TI's former routes through west Texas, such as DEN-AMA-LBB-AUS-IAH. CO also tried IAH-MAF-AMA-DEN with a 737 for a while. To my knowledge, CO never operated regularly-scheduled mainline aircraft non-stop between AMA and IAH.
 
Queso
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RE: AMA Expansion..New Service Adrift? Or 35Mil Waste?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:15 am



Quoting BN727flyr (Reply 15):
CO also tried IAH-MAF-AMA-DEN with a 737 for a while. To my knowledge, CO never operated regularly-scheduled mainline aircraft non-stop between AMA and IAH.

I flew DEN-AMA-MAF in 1988 on a CO 732, a former (old) Frontier bird, N7373F. It was painted in the transition scheme at the time with Frontier colors but the CO red globe and title.


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