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BrianDromey
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:58 am

Congrats to Hawaiian. They will soon be introducing one of the most graceful aircraft in the skies to their fleet.

With that huge wing, 2-4-2 in coach and a quiet cabin the A330 is a fantastic aircraft to fly on as a passenger. Im sure the crews will like the more modern busses as well.

I am, however, amazed by the immaturity shown by some contributors. Indeed, some suggest that the 330 is a generation out of date, yet a few posts later claim the 763 would have been a better order, along with cries of "I hate Airbus". Grow up. If this had been a 767/787 combo the order would be heralded as great news for HA, despite the fact it woudl have strangled East Coast operation for another decade, but it would have had "boeing" on the side...all would have been good.

Once again, congrats to HA. Its good to see them on a stable footing again.

Brian.
 
charlipr
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:00 am



Quoting Koruman (Reply 34):
Boeing has had an advantage in recent years in that the 787 was up against a pretty weak A350 until the XWB was designed.

But Airbus hasn't even finalized the 350XWB specs!!! How can you honestly say is a more advanced aircraft?
 
AA7295
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:08 am



Quoting Koruman (Reply 34):
Sure, the 787 is a generation ahead of the 777/A330, but the A350XWB is not only half a generation more advanced than the 787, but with 787 deliveries booked out so far ahead airlines can now wait for the A350 in 2013 and get a superior airplane.

Oh matey, the XWB isn't more advanced than the 787, its pretty much copied all the advanced technologies that the 787 has. Where did you get the information saying it's a generation ahead when it hasn't even entered design freeze?
 
eghansen
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:11 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 47):
I doubt it. The 358 will have the legs, but the 332 would probably have to take some significant penalties on that route, particulary on the LHR-HNL segment.

I think that it is more likely that Hawaiian is looking at starting service HNL-NRT/KIX/MNL/SYD/TPE/BNS or other pacific destinations. I think it is very unlikely they will start service to Europe anytime soon.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
bennett123
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:13 am

AA7295

Given that the design has not been frozen, how can we know how much B787 technology it will will use.
 
FCKC
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:15 am

Very very surprising.I had never think HA would be an Airbus customer one day ! Nice news.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 41):
They would still get the 787 before the A350s.

Why not order new 767-300s and 787s?

I think you know the answer. The 767 is yesterday's aircraft. The A330 is today's. The 787/A350 are tomorrow's. Given the need for new builds with better capabilities before 2013, they could go 767/787 and be stuck with an aircraft with lower capabilities, go 330/787 and not get the benefits of volume and commonality, or go 330/350 and get the best of both worlds.

Besides, it's clear from the 350 deliveries beginning in 2017 that delivery dates were not the overriding factor.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 45):
Albeit Airbus was only pitting the A350XNB back then. You have to ask yourself would the AC, NW orders have had the same outcome if the A350XWB was available.

Perhaps. But do we really need to go there in this thread???

Edited to remove my irritation.

-Dave

[Edited 2007-11-28 17:27:40]
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
474218
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:24 am



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 3):
Is this a slap in the face to Boeing? It seems like they are a Boeing customer, and now they are going to the bus.

Lets see in the last twenty years they flew Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas and Boeing aircraft.

What is truly amazing to me is that when they flew L-1011's they had to pay cash for spare parts, now they can afford brand new airframes. I guess the airline industries is not in as bad economic shape as people say.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:25 am

Not sure this is the best move for Hawaiian. The A330s will be welcome lift to the mainland, but the A350 might be too big for them.

While a split order would have been foolish, the 787-8 would probably have been a better aircraft for long & thin routes to Europe, Australia, East Coast North America, etc.
 
XaraB
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:27 am



Quoting Charlipr (Reply 53):
But Airbus hasn't even finalized the 350XWB specs!!! How can you honestly say is a more advanced aircraft?

Do you honestly think that Airbus will design an inferior plane entering service at least 4 years after the 787? Plenty of time to incorporate the same technology, and some new technology as well. I cannot remember any significant airliners that entered the market so far apart where the latter clearly was a technological dinosaur when compared to its competitor, and I doubt it will happen this time...
An open mind is not an empty one
 
AA7295
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:29 am



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 56):
AA7295

Given that the design has not been frozen, how can we know how much B787 technology it will will use.

Because Airbus has made announcements, regarding technologies that it will be using that Boeing had pioneered on the 787, such as the Electronic Windows, CFP Panels etc.

Without the design freeze, the performance specifications are subject to change, to better or worse limits.
 
legoguy
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:32 am



Quoting XaraB (Reply 61):
Do you honestly think that Airbus will design an inferior plane entering service at least 4 years after the 787?

To be honest, I doubt Airbus can improve the A350XWB much over the 787 despite the 5 to 6 year gap between aircraft design. The 737NG entered the market 5 to 6 years after the A320 and both are almost identical in performance.

Nice surprise order from Hawaiian Air. The A330's will look fantastic in the purple livery... something special for the spotters to look out for.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
andessmf
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:34 am

OK, answer this question:

Here is SMF we often get two 767s leaving within less than an hour apart. I'd take it that with the tourism market, getting a larger plane would make more sense? I mean, most that go to Hawaii are tourist. Does that apply to other markets?

Quoting 474218 (Reply 59):
Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 3):
Is this a slap in the face to Boeing? It seems like they are a Boeing customer, and now they are going to the bus.

Lets see in the last twenty years they flew Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas and Boeing aircraft.

Aloha would be more surprising, but HA was more of an MD airline till they folded.
 
Corsair1107
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:41 am

HA will still have a sizable 717 fleet so they won't be completely out of Boeing's fold. I can't say I'm surprised at this order, having stood in the breezeway at HNL and watched them stuff cargo into their 763's, they need all the capacity they can get.
Flown on: DHC-6/8, F100, B1900C, 717, 727, 737, 757, 767, 777, 319, 320, C152/172, E135/145, DC-9, MD-83/88 CL600
 
bok269
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:49 am

With regards to the East coast flights, aren't they similar in length to the HNL-SYD flights? Do those flights go out weight restricted?
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
koruman
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:51 am



Quoting Corsair1107 (Reply 65):
HA will still have a sizable 717 fleet so they won't be completely out of Boeing's fold

Unless Airbus has made a proposal to replace them with more efficient A318 or A319 aircraft, which I would presume they have.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:57 am

Wonderful news out of HNL! It will be great seeing Pualani on new metal in new and exotic destinations.

bb
 
EI321
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:59 am



Quoting Koruman (Reply 67):
Quoting Corsair1107 (Reply 65):
HA will still have a sizable 717 fleet so they won't be completely out of Boeing's fold

Unless Airbus has made a proposal to replace them with more efficient A318 or A319 aircraft, which I would presume they have.

The A318 and A319 have different economics to the 717. Im sure the A318 and possibly the A319 also have higher fuel burn per passenger.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:00 am

Sweet news, cant WAIT to see yet another US registered A330-200
 
bok269
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:03 am



Quoting EI321 (Reply 69):

The A318 and A319 have different economics to the 717. Im sure the A318 and possibly the A319 also have higher fuel burn per passenger.

Also remember that the nature of inter-island flights is very hard on aircraft. AQ expiremented with some 734s a while back, but they were not up to the task. Remember that a 717 is essentially a MDD aircraft and as a result, is a very durable aircraft. Isn't the A32X family not certified to such high cycles? Isn't that why many are being scrapped relatively early? This obviously make them impractical to Inter-island ops.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
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ER757
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:06 am



Quoting SANFan (Reply 68):
It will be great seeing Pualani on new metal in new and exotic destinations

Please put her on the winglets as well as the tail....  crossfingers 
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:23 am

I've got nothing against HA and think they have a good product for their market niche. However, this surprises me, especially with the delivery dates way in the future. With potential consolidation of US carriers, Airbus purchases places HA out of step with virtually all potential suitors. NW would be the closest to HA's long haul fleet. Could this move be a poison pill to consolidation?

At first glimpse I would bet that HA is not around in its current form before these aircraft are delivered. The Hawaiian market is stable and rather doubt that HA could remain independent and expand to Europe, Asia, South Pac, etc. as these aircraft seem poised to allow.

Hawaii-Asia and Hawaii-South Pacific has potential, but Hawaii-Europe doesn't. It would be quite a chore to try to make HNL a hub to connect Asia/Soth Pacific traffic to the US as most routes have non-stop service. While stopovers may work to entice low-yield leisure travelers, higher yield traffic doesn't want stops.,

Since Hawaiian only serves Hawaii, their FF program is limited in scope and most likely is tailored for residents of Hawaii. While not in SkyTeam, Their program allows mileage use on CO, NW and Virgin.

It would seem that a merger of HA would make sense in the long haul and I guess any legacy might work, but CO might make the most sense due to their GUM hub. CO is all Boeing.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:23 am



Quoting Koruman (Reply 67):
Unless Airbus has made a proposal to replace them with more efficient A318 or A319 aircraft, which I would presume they have.

I too would be curious to know how they could be more "efficient" on the inter-island jaunts? Not criticizing your idea, but rather questioning whether it applies to the unique operations of HA and AQ.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
khobar
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:51 am



Quoting Moo (Reply 11):
No, not if you actually read the articles.

Hawaiian will invest $4.4b on 24 new jets, but buy them over the next decade. Their immediate order is for 12 aircraft, and they have taken 12 options. Their statement indicates that they will almost certainly firm those options up at some point in the next 10 years.

Makes perfect sense.

I thought the title read that they had bought 24 - my mistake.  Wink
 
Kohflot
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:29 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 55):
I think that it is more likely that Hawaiian is looking at starting service HNL-NRT/KIX/MNL/SYD/TPE/BNS or other pacific destinations.

Well, they already fly to SYD and they've announced MNL.

HA is in an interesting conundrum. Where to expand?

Japan? The US carriers haven't exactly been doing well there.. at least to 'secondary' cities like KIX and NGO. If they did find a way into NRT, they'd be up against the stronger Japanese carriers *and* UAL and NWA.

Australia? They're up against Qantas and Jetstar to SYD. The latter apparently couldn't make MEL work. And is there that much of a demand for a nonstop from BNE?

Mainland China? How long would it be before they'd be awarded service to PEK or PVG? Even with that award, is there much a market there?

Taiwan? Thailand? Hong Kong? S. Korea? Same question. How much of a market is there?

Europe? Hawaii is a *long way* to travel on holiday, especially when there are a multitude of pleasant spots for a trip that are closer and cheaper.

HNL doesn't really work as a hub for anything other than US to Australia and maybe Southeast Asia.

My hunch is the A330s are to meant to help the revenue picture in a gloomy mainland-Hawaii market. More seats and more cargo space for a relatively small cost increase. I can also see a handful of longer US routes starting.. though the big hubs east of the Rockies all have their own service to HNL.

It's going to be an uphill struggle for HA, which leads me to wonder if they're thinking about who they'd like to end up with in a merger scenario. A330s... NW? US? Hmmmmm....
Ask why..
 
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HA_DC9
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:29 am

This is great news for my hometown airline. While I would have preferred the HA colors on a 787, i'm still excited. Congrats to HA and Airbus. I wonder if Airbus is giving HA a sweet deal on these birds to make further inroads into the US market or if this is a ploy by HA to work out a better deal later with Boeing for 787s.
 
caljn
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:38 am



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 3):
Is this a slap in the face to Boeing? It seems like they are a Boeing customer, and now they are going to the bus.

Dumping product generally increases sales/revenue. Who do they think their kidding?
 
koruman
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:53 am



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 73):
Hawaii-Asia and Hawaii-South Pacific has potential, but Hawaii-Europe doesn't

This depends upon how they want to use their geographical location, doesn't it?

Emirates and Singapore Airlines are both far better businesses than any US airline, because they leverage their geographical location as hubs for services between multiple European centres and Asian, Australian and New Zealand centres.

The A350XWB has, as I understand it, the range to fly direct to Europe. Now there is only a tiny market from London to Honolulu, but there's a huge market from London to Australia and New Zealand.

The A350XWB could easily fly Sydney-Honolulu-London, Brisbane-Honolulu-London, Melbourne-Honolulu-Manchester and Auckland-Honolulu-Dublin and effectively tap into Singapore Airlines and Emirates' existing market. Europeans don't want to travel all the way for a vacation in Hawaii, but if they had a choice between a stopover in 110 degree heat in Dubai, sweltering humidity in Singapore or paradise in Hawaii I'm betting that many of them would opt for Hawaii.


The current Emirates flight from Auckland to London stops twice, at Singapore and Dubai and travels 12,278 miles.

In contrast, a Hawaiian flight from Auckland to London via Honolulu would be one-stop and travel 11,626 miles.

It's very do-able, and would probably be the only way Hawaiian could grow its yields from the current low-yield US leisure market model. Its 767s have only 3 rows of "First" class with a very inferior long-haul product, whereas if the A330s were used in similar configuration on routes to the mainland the A350s could be used between Australia, New Zealand and the UK with something like 50 lie-flat Business Class beds.
 
dl767captain
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:54 am

I find it extremely surprising that they ordered new A350s, where is that money coming from? I also find it strange that they are looking into flights to Europe! It seems like that is an extreme leisure route and wouldnt be very profitable but i could be wrong. I guess we will be seeing an A330 at SAN if we r lucky! Any idea which routes will get the A330s in the beginning
 
cschleic
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:56 am



Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 23):
but this one hits home because HA has been a good Boeing customer.



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 3):
It seems like they are a Boeing customer, and now they are going to the bus

They haven't been a great Boeing customer at all. Didn't they start with the 717 when it was still an MD with McDonnell Douglas? Prior to that they had DC-9-50's for a long time. Their prior wide-body planes were used DC-10's. Prior to that they had DC-8's for South Pacific routes. It wasn't until the used 763's that they became a Boeing customer, and the 717's came about in the merger.
 
socalfive
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:07 am



Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 18):
What is up at BCA and how could they let these guys go Airbus? Maybe the bankruptcy experience they weren't through not too long ago could have poisoned the relationship but who knows.

Well I'm sure the Airbus order is more to HA's needs and fit, but I do remember there being a hell of a contentious relationship with Boeing before and during the BK. Didn't some of the 763s go back back then too? That was then and this is now and it IS a business issue but might have a little to do with it and Airbus we all know does some pretty attractive deals to break into Boeing markets so I would think "all of the above" might be the operative.
 
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Pohakuloa
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:10 am



Quoting Bok269 (Reply 71):
Also remember that the nature of inter-island flights is very hard on aircraft. AQ expiremented with some 734s a while back, but they were not up to the task. Remember that a 717 is essentially a MDD aircraft and as a result, is a very durable aircraft. Isn't the A32X family not certified to such high cycles? Isn't that why many are being scrapped relatively early? This obviously make them impractical to Inter-island ops

absolutely! also the turnaround times are far less then they are on mainland us or possibly euro routes (cant say for sure on euro routes). A lot of routes have as little as 45 minutes turnarounds (or less if possible by ground crews if flights are running late). Like mentioned in an above post, AQ tried it with the 734 and it didnt work out well for them. I doubt we'd see a replacement for the 717 anytime soon. Then again, I don't think very many of us would have seen this announcement coming!
Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:16 am



Quoting Pohakuloa (Reply 84):
A lot of routes have as little as 45 minutes turnarounds

The turnarounds are usually 25 minutes on neighbor islands and 35 minutes in Honolulu (for both AQ and HA). 45 minutes would be a pretty long turn for AQ and HA.....there are always a few longer ones, but 35 minutes the norm.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
sxf24
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus J

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:18 am



Quoting Cschleic (Reply 82):
They haven't been a great Boeing customer at all. Didn't they start with the 717 when it was still an MD with McDonnell Douglas? Prior to that they had DC-9-50's for a long time. Their prior wide-body planes were used DC-10's. Prior to that they had DC-8's for South Pacific routes. It wasn't until the used 763's that they became a Boeing customer, and the 717's came about in the merger.

All true. Plus, this order is more about being a RR customer than loyalty to an airframe manufacturer.
 
hellogorgeous
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus J

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:26 am

Wonderful news Hawaiian! The arrival of A330 in 2009 will provide a great platform to prepare crews for the A350.

Any news on HA using MNL as a hub to enter the China Market, especially to maintain A330/A350s? I have a feeling HA will use MNL to recruit crews to fly to Europe, and transpacific routes. MNL seems to have been in the works for a couple of years. This will keep costs down to keep HA profitable and competitive in the future.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:31 am



Quoting Caljn (Reply 79):

I'm with both of you.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:31 am

Why hasn't anyone asked how they are going to pay for this and actually carry it out? I thought that HA was still not consistently profitable and is Hawaii really that big of a market? Its rather easy to place deposits and order new new aircraft, but another thing to close on financing and actually take delivery. 4 years (2008) is an eternity in this industry and 9 years (2017) is just near impossible to plan that far in advance for this industry especially an airline that size.

Just my two cents....
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
hnl-jack
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:39 am

I find it interesting that Airbus, who generally doesn't hold back on announcing orders, has no mention of this on their web site.
 
HAL
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:46 am



Quoting Bok269 (Reply 66):
With regards to the East coast flights, aren't they similar in length to the HNL-SYD flights? Do those flights go out weight restricted?

HNL-JFK is very close to the distance of HNL-SYD. No, we really aren't weight restricted. I've flown a lot of the SYD flights in the past year, and lately we're almost always full of pax, and then stuffed with as much cargo as possible. If you want to call it weight restricted, you probably could since we have room for a little more cargo, but are operating at the max gross weight for the aircraft. But it is a full boat, with close to max fuel, and the rest of the available weight taken up with cargo.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 69):
The A318 and A319 have different economics to the 717. Im sure the A318 and possibly the A319 also have higher fuel burn per passenger.

He's right, and what really drives the cost of flying interisland is the engine's ability to handle the high temperatures and frequent cycles of that type of flying. When Aloha tried the 734, it was the CFM engines that did them in; they couldn't cool off enough during the short turnaround times and essentially burned themselves out too quickly. Since the 318/319 has either CFM or IAE or PW6000 engines you'd most likely run into the same problems.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 73):
At first glimpse I would bet that HA is not around in its current form before these aircraft are delivered.



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 73):
It would seem that a merger of HA would make sense in the long haul



Quoting Kohflot (Reply 76):
It's going to be an uphill struggle for HA, which leads me to wonder if they're thinking about who they'd like to end up with in a merger scenario. A330s... NW? US? Hmmmmm....

If it happens, it happens. But Hawaiian has been independent for 78 years, and we're still going strong. Take a look at the last Boyd article about mergers and you might change your mind on the 'inevitable' consolidation that many think will occur.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 81):
I find it extremely surprising that they ordered new A350s, where is that money coming from?

There are always people ready to pour money into airlines. Look at what happened to USAirways - out of their own money, time, and hope, and yet America West found investors ready to pull them back from the brink of extinction. And since Hawaiian is doing better every year (and has a very well respected management team) I'm not surprised the money is there.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 81):
Any idea which routes will get the A330s in the beginning

I doubt anyone in the company knows that. We still have to get trained and prepped for their arrival. Market conditions (and possible future route authorities) shortly before they arrive will help us decide where they'll go.

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 83):
but I do remember there being a hell of a contentious relationship with Boeing before and during the BK. Didn't some of the 763s go back back then too?

That relationship was mostly with our former CEO John Adams. He's gone and things are a lot more stable now. As for the 763's, we had two more yet to be delivered when we declared bankruptcy. Adams cancelled those two as part of the BK, and we never got them. But none of the 763's we had on property at the time were returned. We still have them all, plus another four ex-Delta planes we picked up last year.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus J

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:54 am



Quoting Koruman (Reply 34):
but the A350XWB is not only half a generation more advanced than the 787

How do you come up with that comment...... confused 

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 35):
Wonderful news for HA!!!!

..congratulations to Airbus....though I'll be sad to no longer see the B763ER here at SJC.. Sad

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 46):
and the B787 is still a paper plane, (like the A350).

..what do you call this?  confused 


(Boeing Media)

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 76):

Japan? The US carriers haven't exactly been doing well there

..maybe by flying the B787 or A350 to said locations, the economics will make sense. Even costs of a % points could be the difference between a route performing profitably or losing money....
"Up the Irons!"
 
LHboyatDTW
Posts: 764
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:54 am

I never guessed this coming. After waking up from a peaceful nap and I seriously believed for the first 45 minutes that I woke up in a parallel universe.

While I'm neutral on the whole A vs. B affair, they simply want to expand to more markets. Pacific Islands, Australia and the West Coast doesn't cut it I'm afraid. I'm sensing a NRT flight.

Their current livery works great on the 767. I'm having my doubts on how it will look. A concept picture would be nice.

However I know this question will be asked sooner or later so I guess I'll just throw it out on the table: PTVs?!?!
The air in the clouds is very pure and fine, bracing and delicious because it's the same the angels breathe.
 
COA735
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:49 pm

RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:05 am

Anybody know how Aloha is reacting to this? This could hurt them.
 
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ua2162
Posts: 454
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:07 am

Wow.

Talk about coming in from left field. I never saw it coming.

Who knows what this is going to lead to. Kinda sad that Boeing lost out but glad they're getting new birds.

How do you think AQ will respond?
 
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Pohakuloa
Topic Author
Posts: 219
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:10 am



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 85):
The turnarounds are usually 25 minutes on neighbor islands and 35 minutes in Honolulu (for both AQ and HA). 45 minutes would be a pretty long turn for AQ and HA.....there are always a few longer ones, but 35 minutes the norm.

-Aloha!

Mahalo Aloha73G!! I knew it was short. Thanks for the info!

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 89):
Why hasn't anyone asked how they are going to pay for this and actually carry it out? I thought that HA was still not consistently profitable and is Hawaii really that big of a market?

I think many may agree with you saying it is not "consistantly" profitable, but i think there is pootential and in expanding you would tap into that potential. And from what I gather according to those here on a.net, Hawaii as a market is not that great in their eyes. Although planes are generally full and can be quite busy on a day to day basis (and dont compare it to any major metro on the US mainland because a major metro we are not). How ever, I do agree with what Koruman is saying here and on other threads. Not using Hawaii as the final destination, but rather as a hub destination with intentions on going elsewhere, in my mind, has great potential. not only would you gain customers on the routes you would then fly, but also increase stopovers/traffic in Hawaii on their way to their final destination and on their way back home as well. Gaining a greater customer base and working on gaining their loyalty. To me (bash me if you will, I can take it), this makes complete business sense.
Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
 
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aloha73g
Posts: 1946
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RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:13 am



Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 93):
PTVs?!?!

Probably not. HA does very well with the Dig-E-Players. This allows them to make "extra" money from the passengers who want a PTV, instead of giving it to everyone it just being a cost item rather than a revenue item.

I would expect HA to stay with the Dig-E-Players or a future improved Dig-E-Player type model.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:16 am



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 92):
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 46):
and the B787 is still a paper plane, (like the A350).

..what do you call this?

I call that a model, with no interior.

It was a gimmick to unveil it on 7/8/7, but that bird couldn't take off and fly that day any more than the Spruce Goose could!

The 787 currently can't compete with the A350XWB on range or on load. I'm guessing they will end up as similar as the A320 and the 737-700, but the A350XWB has very quickly silenced all the 787 triumphalism that was going around.

Hawaiian did what any sensible airline will do: they played Boeing and Airbus off against each other to extract the best deal for themselves.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:17 am



Quoting Koruman (Reply 67):
Unless Airbus has made a proposal to replace them with more efficient A318 or A319 aircraft, which I would presume they have.

The A318 and 319 are absolutely not more efficient than the 717, nor do they have the high-cycle construction.

The 717 is irreplaceable in their network, just like the 732 in Aloha's.

NS
 
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Pohakuloa
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:28 am

RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:21 am



Quoting COA735 (Reply 94):
Anybody know how Aloha is reacting to this? This could hurt them.



Quoting UA2162 (Reply 95):
How do you think AQ will respond?

i dont think they will respond. they have used the 737 for years and years and no matter the change in aircraft HA has used, they have stayed with the 737 and it seems to fit them well. since they went to the 737 i believe they only strayed once with a DC-10-30 that they didnt keep for very long at all. But who knows!! A very exciting time here in HNL with more and more Airbuses coming through on a regular basis!


Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3234
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:21 am



Quoting Koruman (Reply 80):
The A350XWB could easily fly Sydney-Honolulu-London, Brisbane-Honolulu-London, Melbourne-Honolulu-Manchester and Auckland-Honolulu-Dublin and effectively tap into Singapore Airlines and Emirates' existing market. Europeans don't want to travel all the way for a vacation in Hawaii, but if they had a choice between a stopover in 110 degree heat in Dubai, sweltering humidity in Singapore or paradise in Hawaii I'm betting that many of them would opt for Hawaii.

Are we not thinking of how the loads would be balanced on the 5000 mile SouthPac-HNL and 7200 mile HNL-LON/MAN legs? You'd have to use some unique yield management to not overload the SouthPac segment and get a 50% load factor on the longer HNL-Europe segment. Going through HKG, SIN, KUL, LAX, SFO, BKK allow decent loads on both legs whereas just think of what it would take to get passengers on a HNL-MAN non-stop.

I guess on any 1-stop through Asia you'd have a diversity of passenger mix, but mixing Hawaiian shirts with suits from London would be interesting.
 
AirlineBrat
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:40 am

RE: Hawaiian Air To Spend $4.4B On 24 New Airbus Jets

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:48 am



Quoting Koruman (Reply 80):
The current Emirates flight from Auckland to London stops twice, at Singapore and Dubai and travels 12,278 miles.

In contrast, a Hawaiian flight from Auckland to London via Honolulu would be one-stop and travel 11,626 miles.

You have a good point. Since most of those traveling on the Kangaroo Routes fly on one-stops with layovers in SIN or BKK, I checked Great Circle Mapper for those distances.... LHR-SIN-SYD is 10,672 miles; LHR-BKK-SYD is 10,620 miles so a stop in HNL is right in the ballpark. If you offer competitive airfares and allow stopovers in HNL like CX does at HKG, you could probably convince quite a few people to travel the extra 1,000 miles and add a few days in Hawaii to their vacation plans. Market great deals on car rental/hotel packages for their time on Oahu and voila, you have yourself a winner!
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....

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