777ER
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New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:39 am

NZ Aviation Thread #16 has now reached over 200 posts New Zealand Aviation Thread #16 (by 777ER Nov 15 2007 in Civil Aviation)#1, so here is thread #17

I don't have much time for a summary of thread #16, so here is a very brief summary. In Thread #16 we learnt that:
- QF have said that even thou, they have ordered upto 188 new aircraft (B738s, A320s and A321s) none off the B738s are bound for Jetconnect, even thou the B738s will fully replace the B733s and B734s in their fleet.

If you have completed any recent flights, and you have posted a trip report, then please post the link here, for us to read
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:55 am

We got through New Zealand Aviation Thread 16 at a great rate of knots.
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ZKSUJ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:12 am

Cheers Jase

Heres a question. I noticed that on the Air NZ route map in the magazine, there is no codeshare line joining AKL and SIN. has NZ dropped the code share arangements with SQ? Because these route lines were there last month but have disappeared...

can someone explain or does anyone know why?
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:13 am



Quoting BNE (Reply 1):

15 days to be precise! Man those days have flown by and a lot of stuff has happened. Any interesting press releases coming up before Christmas? DJ's announcement if any?
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:18 am



Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 2):
there is no codeshare line joining AKL and SIN. has NZ dropped the code share arangements with SQ?

I think so, what about AKL-BKK? I noticed NZ4190 on NZ's arrival page the other day, I know its the TG flight but is it a codeshare or just an airshare thing?
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:27 am



Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 4):
I think so, what about AKL-BKK? I noticed NZ4190 on NZ's arrival page the other day, I know its the TG flight but is it a codeshare or just an airshare thing?

What does the Star Alliance (and similar ones) actually govern? Do you sign up for it to be able to codeshare, rather than main routes that could be flown by all are codeshared compulsilory?

If you take a look at a recent Air NZ magazine's routes, you'll see that SIN does not appear at all apart from the symbol saying it's a *A hub.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:45 am

Interesting. Anyone know why the SQ code-share was dropped? Any reasons?

I find it interesting that within a relatively short time, NZ can go from daily 772 to not even a code share on the route

[Edited 2007-11-29 02:46:29]
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:57 pm



Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 6):
Anyone know why the SQ code-share was dropped? Any reasons?

Not entirely sure, but my impression is that it is hard to find seats on the SQ flights: they are constantly quite full.
 
TBCITDG
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:57 pm

With the introduction of lower paid employees over at QF, will there be any point in having a long haul base out of AKL? There is a strong chance that the conditions under which Australian based flight attendants work in will be lower than those at JetConnect.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:52 pm

Bombardier have paid for a full page ad in the paper (NZ Herald) today saying "Thanks Qantas" for ordering another 12 Q400s.. Any hints in there for things to come? Or simply a waste of money?
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:35 pm



Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 8):
With the introduction of lower paid employees over at QF, will there be any point in having a long haul base out of AKL? There is a strong chance that the conditions under which Australian based flight attendants work in will be lower than those at JetConnect.

One of the main attractions of basing staff in Auckland is that they can do a morning or afternoon/evening return trip NZ-Australia-NZ and not have to be accommodated away from home at the airline's expense. Certainly, aircraft utilisation-wise, it's much more efficient to overnight trans-Tasman aircraft in NZ, as the SYD curfew would only otherwise allow three sectors to be flown per day, instead of four. Business travellers are also better served by the timings afforded by overnighting aircraft in NZ - which is why QF, JQ and DJ all do that. It would theoretically be possible to overnight aircraft (and therefore to base trans-Tasman crews) in MEL or BNE, but only at the expense of much less appropriate flight departure times than at present.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:16 am



Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 8):
With the introduction of lower paid employees over at QF, will there be any point in having a long haul base out of AKL? There is a strong chance that the conditions under which Australian based flight attendants work in will be lower than those at JetConnect.

Looks like the pay will still be higher for new crews but they will be working a bit more. There are other advantages for the company in maintaining an AKL base.


also BTW 2000 posts!!!!!  Smile
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:11 am



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 9):
Bombardier have paid for a full page ad in the paper (NZ Herald) today saying "Thanks Qantas" for ordering another 12 Q400s.. Any hints in there for things to come? Or simply a waste of money?

Had the exact same thing over here. Not a fact id be advertising straight after alot of media attention in Europe over the incidents and it was all over thee tv here.
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PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:48 am

Last Friday's NBR reported an ATR sales team was here to try and sell the ATR72-600 to NZ. Decision time on the ATR72-500 replacement?
 
dj738
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:51 am



Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 12):
Not a fact id be advertising straight after alot of media attention in Europe over the incidents and it was all over thee tv here.

Thats exactly the reason they ARE advertising. To show that QantasLink still, clearly, has support in their Q400 product and therefore the travelling public should have no concerns either.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:52 am



Quoting PA515 (Reply 13):
Last Friday's NBR reported an ATR sales team was here to try and sell the ATR72-600 to NZ. Decision time on the ATR72-500 replacement?

ATR. Yuck. PLEASE let Mount Cook Airline go with the Q400!
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:02 am

I was kind of hoping for EMB-190's.  Smile
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:10 am



Quoting DJ738 (Reply 15):
ATR. Yuck. PLEASE let Mount Cook Airline go with the Q400!

Settle... there are some crazy folks out here who prefer the ATR over the Q-series (well the 300 specifically)... like me  Smile
I can't say exactly why, it just feels better.  Smile

ax
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:46 am



Quoting PA515 (Reply 16):
I was kind of hoping for EMB-190's

E-Jet E190s would be too big in terms of capacity I'd think... E-Jet E170 would be more likely if thats the way Mount Cook wanted to go...
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:57 am



Quoting DJ738 (Reply 18):
E-Jet E190s would be too big in terms of capacity I'd think... E-Jet E170 would be more likely if thats the way Mount Cook wanted to go...

I like the idea of the E170 as well, because it offers the possibility of operating Tasman services from HLZ and DUD with "proper" (ie daily) frequencies. Instead of offering 3-4 flights aweek with a 150-seater on HLZ/DUD-SYD/BNE, each of those sectors could be daily with a 70-seater. Then, there's also the possibility of extending these HLZ and DUD flights and using them to feed traffic to and from SYD and BNE from ADL/HBA/CNS and make daily connections possible between all NZ's Australian ports and its international ports in NZ (ZQN excepted). In an environment of intense competition between NZ, QF and DJ (and possibly TR) NZ needs to find its niche, and at the moment it seriously lacks connectivity within Australia.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:01 am



Quoting PA515 (Reply 13):
Last Friday's NBR reported an ATR sales team was here to try and sell the ATR72-600 to NZ. Decision time on the ATR72-500 replacement?

The RFQ went out a while ago now. There is a clear favourite, though I cannot divulge it yet. Also, expect to hear something re a replacement for the 733 fleet over the next 12 -18 months. They are going to be retired starting in around 5 years time.

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Zkpilot
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:45 am



Quoting NZ1 (Reply 20):
The RFQ went out a while ago now. There is a clear favourite, though I cannot divulge it yet. Also, expect to hear something re a replacement for the 733 fleet over the next 12 -18 months. They are going to be retired starting in around 5 years time.

Considering NZ ordered the Q300 and is very happy about it aparently, one would have to think that the Q400 is the most likely winner.

Good news about the 733 fleet... they're still excellent aircraft given their relatively young age... it will be a surprise were Airbus to win given that NZ is supposedly not thrilled with their A320 performance...
737NG anyone?
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boeing767-300
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:27 am



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 21):
Good news about the 733 fleet... they're still excellent aircraft given their relatively young age... it will be a surprise were Airbus to win given that NZ is supposedly not thrilled with their A320 performance...

really!!! What don't ANZ like about the A320s???

I would be suprised if ANZ get 73G but then 737s have dominated Wellington since 1968.

The best thing to come out of ANZ acquiring A320s was that it 'woke' Boeing out of its slumber and they sharpened there pencils for 787/777 deal. Otherwise it would/may have been A340/330......
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:30 am



Quoting DJ738 (Reply 15):
Quoting PA515 (Reply 13):
Last Friday's NBR reported an ATR sales team was here to try and sell the ATR72-600 to NZ. Decision time on the ATR72-500 replacement?

ATR. Yuck. PLEASE let Mount Cook Airline go with the Q400!

Better still, the E170. Its time the regional market that can support it, gets RJ service. The ATRs seat roughly the same amount as the Ejets

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 21):
737NG anyone?

73GERs would be good for NZ, especially for International flights, like out of WLG to some Pacific Islands, or if it can be supported, then one stop services to LAX via the Pacific.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:34 am



Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
one stop services to LAX via the Pacific

If they did this, where would they make a Pacific hub? And will the traffic be sufficient to support daily flights from the likes of WLG, DUD, PMR, HLZ, ZQN..?
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777ER
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:07 am



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 24):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
one stop services to LAX via the Pacific

If they did this, where would they make a Pacific hub? And will the traffic be sufficient to support daily flights from the likes of WLG, DUD, PMR, HLZ, ZQN..?

Some Pacific Island that currently has B763 services to LAX would work. No need for it to be daily. NZ has each week around 2 or 3 B763 services to LAX via 2 or 3 pacific islands that operate several times each week to each Island. NZ could start say 4 weekly services from WLG-???-LAX, with arrival/departure in time for LHR services to/from WLG. This service could be used for passengers from TUO south, who want to avoid the mad arrival period into AKL at 6am.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:22 am



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 21):
Considering NZ ordered the Q300 and is very happy about it aparently, one would have to think that the Q400 is the most likely winner.

They've hinted it in a number or publications that the Q400 will likely be introduced into the Air NZ family. Perhaps they will save on costs and training etc, such as having a common pilot type rating for both variants if they did get the Q400, and merge Mount Cook it into Air Nelson.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 21):
Good news about the 733 fleet... they're still excellent aircraft given their relatively young age... it will be a surprise were Airbus to win given that NZ is supposedly not thrilled with their A320 performance...
737NG anyone?

It's a shame there is no current alternative with the A320 family and 737NG. I think if Boeing develops the Y1 (B737 replacement) in the coming years it would be a huge advantage over Airbus. The only reason we haven't seen much in terms of 737NG development/replacement, except for the section additions and the range upgrades to form the 900 and 900ER respectively, is because there is still so much demand. Wouldn't it be cool if Boeing released the Y1 in the next coming years with Air NZ as a launch customer? Just a wild thought. But back to reality, my money is also on the 737NG. Perhaps a mix of both the 700 and 800 with the current A320's sold/leased off?  scratchchin 

Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
Better still, the E170. Its time the regional market that can support it, gets RJ service. The ATRs seat roughly the same amount as the Ejets

I doubt they will get regional jets. Reason why, is that turboprop aircraft in general are better suited for short regional operations as short sector routes normally have a restricted cruise altitude for a number of practical and theoretical reasons. Regional Jets are more optimally suited for high altitudes usually above 30,000ft which over short sectors may not be able to reach to allow for an economical climb, cruise and descent. Turboprops are designed to operate at medium altitudes associated with short sectors. Another reason is because of the requirement to operate into restrictive airports where a turboprop such as the ATR or Q400's high lift straight wing is capable of meeting restrictive runway lengths and climb and decent gradients compared to the lower lift thin swept wing if the ERJ.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:43 am



Quoting NZ747 (Reply 26):
They've hinted it in a number or publications that the Q400 will likely be introduced into the Air NZ family. Perhaps they will save on costs and training etc, such as having a common pilot type rating for both variants if they did get the Q400, and merge Mount Cook it into Air Nelson.

My moneys on the Q400, I remember someone saying that NZ has options on them. Also when SAS dumps their Q400s on the market the average value is expected to drop so it would be a good time for NZ to buy. But I still would like NZ to get the ATR 72-600.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
Better still, the E170. Its time the regional market that can support it, gets RJ service. The ATRs seat roughly the same amount as the Ejets

With "global warming" and "the environment" the new buzzwords that everyone is using now days, it might be better for Air NZ to be able to market its fuel efficient and environmentally friendly turboprops over fuel guzzling jets, which fits in with New Zealand's clean green image. Even though the E-jets are very efficient, Joe Public doesn't know that.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 21):
737NG anyone?

It seems just like the 733s that NZ is going to buy a new narrow body aircraft at the/or near the end of its production cycle, just when a new model is about to come out.
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:51 pm



Quoting Axio (Reply 17):
Settle... there are some crazy folks out here who prefer the ATR over the Q-series (well the 300 specifically)... like me  

I am another one of these crazy folks, unfortunately.

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 20):
Also, expect to hear something re a replacement for the 733 fleet over the next 12 -18 months. They are going to be retired starting in around 5 years time.

Whichever they choose, it will be good news. Any possibility that the 733 will be replaced by 2 different types of aircrafts?
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:59 pm

I see from an Airways Corp ad in todays Herald for increased approach charges , that the Cat111b landing system became operational at AKL on Nov 22nd.
Presumably this will reduce/eliminate diversions due to fog to almost zero.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:09 pm



Quoting NZA320 (Reply 27):
But I still would like NZ to get the ATR 72-600.

Me too, am hopeful for the ATR even though it seems a long shot

Quoting NZA320 (Reply 27):
Even though the E-jets are very efficient, Joe Public doesn't know that

But then again, E-jets are still not as efficient as TPs. imagine AKL-NR in a E170, not good at att considering what altitudes they have to climb to to be efficient.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:49 pm



Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 29):
that the Cat111b landing system became operational at AKL on Nov 22nd.

IIRC from the AGM is that the Cat IIIb is in place, but won't be fully operational for a month/few months to go. There shouldnt be any fog for a while though.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:55 pm



Quoting NZ1 (Reply 20):
The RFQ went out a while ago now. There is a clear favourite, though I cannot divulge it yet. Also, expect to hear something re a replacement for the 733 fleet over the next 12 -18 months. They are going to be retired starting in around 5 years time.

NZ1

One NZ1, you are brilliant at making nothing sound like something  Big grin

NZ might take options on the Airbus it currently has and extend Zeal320 to domestic as well.

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DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:17 am



Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 30):
But then again, E-jets are still not as efficient as TPs. imagine AKL-NR in a E170, not good at att considering what altitudes they have to climb to to be efficient.

I'd be interested to know what kind of fuel efficiency you get out of the E170 over stages such as

AKL-NSN - 2a/c for NZ to replace turboprops
AKL-DUD - 1 a/c - potential for better frequency than with a 733
HLZ-CHC - 1 a/c
WLG-DUD - 2 a/c - again better frequency possible than with a 733
WLG-IVC - 0.5 a/c
ROT-CHC - 1 a/c
and possibly AKL-ZQN

There's a potential fleet of 8 a/c just for those routes. Add to that a couple more for trans-Tasman services out of HLZ and DUD, and you're looking at 10. Add a couple more for providing links to and from ADL/HBA/CNS to feed NZ services at SYD, and you're looking at a fleet of 12 (see my reply 19 above). That starts to be quite a comfortable fleet size.

There's also the Pacific Blue factor, which does need to be taken into account. Although DJ has said it has no plans to use the E-jets on domestic routes in NZ, that could change very easily if they saw a niche. I'm sure that they will be looking to some of these longer secondary routes for their next thrust into NZ, and if they do, it won't be with turboprops, I'm guessing. On some of the "long thin" domestic routes, NZ would be able to retire 733 capacity and offer seriously good frequencies with E-jets - such as on AKL-DUD and WLG-DUD. NZ may need to protect its flanks from DJ, which in my view is potentially a more significant domestic competitor than QF, and they can protect themselves by providing frequency on some of the secondary trunk routes. Unless they do something, they may be faced with putting up slow turboprops against E-jets.

Although it's acknowledged that the E-jets are not as fuel efficient as the turboprops, that and protecting itself against DJ are snot the only factor in the mix. You can also operate more daily sectors with a jet than you can with a turboprop, so your fixed investment costs are spread out between more passengers. I'd be interested in knowing what kind of stage length is the "tipping point" where the additional fuel costs balance out the lower fixed costs per passenger. Then we might have a sensible idea of whether the E-jets would be a viable proposition in New Zealand operating conditions.

Of course, if you replaced these routes above with E-jets, you'd also need to buy a handful of Q300s to operate on routes like PMR-CHC, WLG-CHC, HLZ-WLG, CHC-DUD, CHC-IVC etc in place of the AT7s. You'd save some Q300 capacity off the current AKL-NSN route, and also save a couple of 733s which you'd have "liberated" from AKL-DUD, WLG-DUD etc. You'd also "gain" an A320 which currently operates services from HLZ/DUD to Australia, if that was replaced by a couple of E-jets for better Tasman frequency.

So although the conventional wisdom is that the Q400 is the front-runner, there are definitely arguments in favour of the E-jet. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out.
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DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:32 am



Quoting TG992 (Reply 32):
NZ might take options on the Airbus it currently has and extend Zeal320 to domestic as well.

Have the A320 options not already expired?
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 am



Quoting TG992 (Reply 32):
NZ might take options on the Airbus it currently has and extend Zeal320 to domestic as well.

Someone said recently that they expired some time ago...

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 34):
Have the A320 options not already expired?

thats what I was led to believe...
anyone?
sure would be interesting if they haven't

Quoting NZ747 (Reply 26):
Wouldn't it be cool if Boeing released the Y1 in the next coming years with Air NZ as a launch customer?

Sure would be but I don't see B coming out with Y1 until after the 7810 is put into production... so likely around 2012 launch with first flight not until 2015 and EIS 2016. NZ could get 737s in the next few years and they would be 7 years old by the time Y1 becomes available... could work but I doubt NZ would be bothered with being the launch customer for that when there are so many 737 operators out there....WN would be my bet.

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 29):
I see from an Airways Corp ad in todays Herald for increased approach charges , that the Cat111b landing system became operational at AKL on Nov 22nd.
Presumably this will reduce/eliminate diversions due to fog to almost zero.

Yeah catIIIb should work perfectly for AKL... a dozen fog days a year often but usually only for short periods of time in the mornings... Only a handful of aircraft can use it per hour but thats all AKL needs to get its international flights in (ie 747s from LAX, SFO etc), get a few domestic flights out also, it is easier for domestic to recover from delays than intl due to overseas slots etc and domestic being able to load people onto earlier flights.
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PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:40 am



Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
Better still, the E170. Its time the regional market that can support it, gets RJ service. The ATRs seat roughly the same amount as the Ejets

I expect NZ would be looking at a capacity increase for an ATR replacement, possibly in the same ratio as the 33 seat Saab (1F/A) to 50 seat Q300 (1 F/A). So, 66 seat ATR (2 F/A) to 100 seat E190 (2 F/A) seems logical.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 33):
Of course, if you replaced these routes above with E-jets, you'd also need to buy a handful of Q300s to operate on routes like PMR-CHC, WLG-CHC, HLZ-WLG, CHC-DUD, CHC-IVC etc in place of the AT7s. You'd save some Q300 capacity off the current AKL-NSN route, and also save a couple of 733s which you'd have "liberated" from AKL-DUD, WLG-DUD etc. You'd also "gain" an A320 which currently operates services from HLZ/DUD to Australia, if that was replaced by a couple of E-jets for better Tasman frequency.

Agree with your analysis. I do not know what price the 10 Q300 options are at but the 17 initially ordered were USD200M (USD11.76M each). NZ has converted 6 of the options to orders making 23 ordered, so 4 options left. Air Philippines ordered 3 Q300's in April 07 for USD56M (at list prices) (USD18.67M each). If a substantial discount has been locked into the options, then there is an added incentive to convert all the options to orders.

With the exception of one NPE flight a day, all ATR flights operate to 737 airports. The NSN runway may need to be extended for E190's.


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Looking very nice in Finnair colours, which are similar to NZ's. Hope we don't have wait too long for an announcement.

PA515
 
777ER
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New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:55 am



Quoting NZ747 (Reply 26):
But back to reality, my money is also on the 737NG. Perhaps a mix of both the 700 and 800 with the current A320's sold/leased off?

Would it be a wise idea to get some B739s. B739s seats upto 215 pax in a single config, and 280 in a two class config and could be used to replace some 'regional' B763 flights like to PER, and some Pacific Islands and increase services. Could also be used to replace some A320s on good routes like AKL-SYD, AKL-ADL, which would allow them to be free to operate other routes and open up some more short haul.

Quoting PA515 (Reply 36):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
Better still, the E170. Its time the regional market that can support it, gets RJ service. The ATRs seat roughly the same amount as the Ejets

I expect NZ would be looking at a capacity increase for an ATR replacement, possibly in the same ratio as the 33 seat Saab (1F/A) to 50 seat Q300 (1 F/A). So, 66 seat ATR (2 F/A) to 100 seat E190 (2 F/A) seems logical.

ATRs seat 66 pax, E170 seats somewhere around 70-75 pax, E175s somewhere around 80-90 pax and the E190s seating somewhere over 100 pax

Quoting PA515 (Reply 36):
The NSN runway may need to be extended for E190's.

I honestly think E190s would be to big for regional services, but they would be excellent for TT routes.
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leonjunior
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:59 am

does anyone know anything about skyjet pacific?
and what fleet are they operating
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:47 am



Quoting 777ER (Reply 37):
B739s seats upto 215 pax in a single config, and 280 in a two class config

Are you sure about that? I think you mean 180 in 2 class config... (typo?)

geez Jase, I don't even think the Japs are that cruel when cramming PAX into aircraft  Wink
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:53 am



Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 39):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 37):
B739s seats upto 215 pax in a single config, and 280 in a two class config

Are you sure about that? I think you mean 180 in 2 class config... (typo?)

Yes its a typo
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:33 am

Hello Everyone

Was in AKL today and saw a Net Jets Europe G550 reg CS-DKH and what I think was a BBJ departing in the mid afternoon around when the Atlas Air. The BBJ livery looked similar to the G550 but I could not be certain.

The G550 was in the hanger near Convair Corner.

Any ideas why the were in AKL. AIA takeover or something similar?

Regards

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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:23 am

The smaller of the e jets makes a lot of sense first imo. Can do lots of useful new longer leg point to point servives Clarks texting during chogm quite calculated. Get's the back up of old school kiwis (the sort of people that support retaining all this old british symbolism).
The difference between Robert Mugabe and the guy that runs the Congo is that he can have a Royal Commision. Govt doesn't like New Zealand associated with this stuff. It's all about legitimising authority which is why it was so important in NZ up until the early 80's. Very very fussy about how NZ's image is projected.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:50 am

Would it make sense (theroetically) to have Mt Cook operate just E-Jets for say AKL-INV, HLZ-CHC, CHC-ROT, ZQN-WLG etc etc long and new routes and merge the 70 seaters with Air NS? So say Air NS would operate Q400 and Q300s with same pilot ratings...

Still doubt they will get E-Jets as its still not as efficient as the TPs, but hey its anyones guess...
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:25 am



Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 43):
Still doubt they will get E-Jets as its still not as efficient as the TPs, but hey its anyones guess...

The big question in my view is how NZ intend to defend themselves against a DJ which may well bring the E-jet to NZ in the future . . .
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:33 am



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 44):

Show a "clean green" image and remain with turboprops. I don't really know how many people will stay but if NZ can put a strong campaign about "oh these ones burn less fossil fuels" or some jargon like that to entice the general public then it could win them some seats.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:41 am



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 45):
if NZ can put a strong campaign about "oh these ones burn less fossil fuels" or some jargon like that to entice the general public then it could win them some seats.

As a lifelong "green-at-heart" I really hope you're right. But I'm not sure that enough people would have the altruism that would fill up NZ planes that were half an hour slower than DJ's . . .
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:02 am



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 46):

I'm no environmentalist.. Nor do I truly believe in half of the global warming stuff. It just happens to be that every time they report on melting iceburgs, it's always Greenland in always in their autumn, just after.. Summer.. I wonder why they melt. Even if they do decide to fly on Air NZ over DJ's E-Jets, the E-Jets are most likely to still fly those routes, thus doing just as much harm to the environment as if the loads were even or skewed onto the E-Jets instead of the turboprops. Therefore, the true advantage is kind of washed away, whether you fly on the prop or E-Jet, the schedule will remain the same (unless enough people stop flying the E-Jets which is unlikely). Hope you understood that, I'm kinda tired
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:43 am



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 45):
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 44):


Show a "clean green" image and remain with turboprops

The general flying public doesn't give a toss about clean green, all they are interested in, is getting there quickly. If DJ bring over some Ejets and NZ stays with turbos on like WLG-CHC, CHC-ROT, then NZ can basically close down those routes, cause the pax will go with DJ as they can get there quicker. NZ will have to adjust to DJs threat, as DJ is a BIG THREAT. If NZ don't adjust then bye bye some of NZs routes. NZ have said that they need to adjust before a threat arrives, and I honestly believe that turbo-props won't be seen on flights that need 66+ seats, as I believe that DJ does know that they can use their Ejets here in the future, especially on long regional flights like WLG-ZQN, CHC-ROT, AKL-NSN etc. UA uses Ejets on flights for around the same flight time as those flights, like IAD-JFK. The USA is a perfect example, airlines there are needing to adjust to new competition on routes (Virgin America, Southwest) by doing what ever they need to do to keep their market share, like taking over other airlines, reducing frequencys to better fill their aircraft and save money etc. I have to admit, if I can get there quicker on DJ, then I will fly DJ, if DJ is cheaper then DJ it is for that flight and future flights. I'm planning a flight to ADL next April, and there is chance, I won't be flying NZ due to quicker and cheaper other options
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #17

Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:27 pm



Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 39):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 37):
B739s seats upto 215 pax in a single config, and 280 in a two class config

Are you sure about that? I think you mean 180 in 2 class config... (typo?)

geez Jase, I don't even think the Japs are that cruel when cramming PAX into aircraft

haha yeah I was thinking a similar thing... even 180 seems quite high but I'm sure its possible.


In regards to the TP vs RJ arguments, whilst RJ are nicer and quieter, they do use more fuel and for most sectors in New Zealand they would not be significantly faster. I was just talking to a couple of CRJ pilots today (from 2 different airlines) and they reckon they often cruise about at 400kts which is well below their max cruise speed. Q400 cruises about 350kt. Using CHC-DUD as a typical example, the CRJ flight time is [email protected], the Q400 flight time is [email protected] Now considering the CRJ has to climb to a higher altitude to get efficiency out of its engines that time would be increased due to slower g/s in the climb. Ends up being that they take the same amount of time with the Q400 using less fuel.

Another example: AKL-NSN 267nm. CRJ takes [email protected], Q400 takes [email protected] Add the extra couple of mins onto the CRJ time for climb and it is 4 mins faster than the Q400. Now shorter startup, taxi times, takeoff roll for the Q400 ought to eat up that deficit so really about even even for this longer sector.

New Zealand is just too small and not populated enough for RJ IMO... only would work if they could be used on some Tasman sectors as well.
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