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8herveg
Topic Author
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VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:39 pm

Ok, I know it was only on Wikipedia...but it says on the Manchester Airport page that Virgin Atlantic are going to start a service to Shanghai in March 08.

Anyone know anything about this?
 
by738
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:46 pm

I know..... its a lot of poppycock.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:51 pm



Quoting BY738 (Reply 1):
I know..... its a lot of poppycock.

Actually, it appeared on an official Shanghai routes info site also under "pending"....damned if I can find it again right now though.

Might have it stored at home.

Shamu
Flying around India
 
by738
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:56 pm

And pending means its going to happen.......?
 
ZKOJH
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:03 pm

According to Chinese press during the visit by the Manchester's Tourism/Commerce bureau, Virgin Atlantic plans to operate nonstop Shanghai - Manchester service in 2009.


http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/search/label/Virgin%20Atlantic
Air New Zealand ~ dreams of flying
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:21 pm

Zkojh

Thanks for that.  thumbsup 

BY738, I don't believe I ever attested that "pending" meant it was definitely going to happen. I merely stated that the word is out that VS are actively evaluating the route. It's no secret.

Manchester has, I believe, the 2nd largest Chinese population in Europe, and the links between Manchester and China are growing stronger at an alarming rate; witness the explosion of freight services between Manchester and China compared to, say 3 years ago. How many are there now every day?

Whilst Cathay umm and arr about returning to the HKG route, the opportunity is there for someone else to commence service to the chinese mainland.

To discard the notion as mere "poppycock" is dismissive and completely without warrant.

Shamu
Flying around India
 
basrabob
Posts: 32
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:30 pm

to VS , MAN is a distraction . It will be a miracle if it happens , they will concentrate on LON , any provincial flights will be to western hemisphere destinations , they are primarily a London airline . Also they don't have any spare aircraft.
 
David_itl
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:59 pm



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 5):
How many are there now every day?

HKG = 2 per day, PVG = 2/3 a week by CA and think it's 2 per week by Great Wall (going to up frequency?)

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 5):
Manchester has, I believe, the 2nd largest Chinese population in Europe

Hasn't Liverpool got a larger Chinese populaiton? But together, it's a pretty sizeable number...just hope some of the cultural/trade links between northwest England and China have fostered a decent number of premium payers for any such service!
 
col
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:56 am

Maybe VS have realised that to grow in UK it has to be outside of LHR? It could be a nice money maker when you consider the business being done with China outside of London.
 
VC10DC10
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:23 am



Quoting Basrabob (Reply 6):
to VS , MAN is a distraction . It will be a miracle if it happens , they will concentrate on LON , any provincial flights will be to western hemisphere destinations , they are primarily a London airline . Also they don't have any spare aircraft.

Bit brash to assume all of this. How is MAN a "distraction" to VS? Perhaps, as Col suggests, they want a little diversification for their routes? Do you work in VS route planning? You must, if you know that VS won't have any aircraft available in 2009.

Quoting Col (Reply 8):
Maybe VS have realised that to grow in UK it has to be outside of LHR? It could be a nice money maker when you consider the business being done with China outside of London.

Great point. MAN-PVG would need more than leisure/family travel, but the expansion of international trade would probably:
a. help this route
b. help international trade
I think it's a win-win.
 
APYu
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:12 am

But at the same time they are considering axing the London to Shanghai due to poor performance. The high fuel burn on the A340 is one of the factors being quoted when looking at the current performance figures, using 15 tonnes of extra fuel each way when compared with more fuel efficient aircraft. With the current lack of aircraft they are currently looking at how the Shanghai aircraft may be better deployed on more profitable routes with the China runs being reinstated when some more fuel efficient planes come online.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:11 am

I hope this does go ahead. It will be good for MAN to have a Chinese route again (which isn't cargo) and it shows that MAN does have potential (unless you work for BA).

Then again VS have been rumoured to start MAN-JFK for donkey's years.
 
basrabob
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:54 am

RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:37 am

Maybe the point has been misunderstood , how many Chinese mainland airlines fly from China to MAN . None! that point in itself should be screamingly obvious to people that if a Chinese carrier is unwilling to fly to MAN

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 5):
Manchester has, I believe, the 2nd largest Chinese population in Europe.

And they would surely be the prime choice for people of Chinese origin to fly to/from PRC , then it would be a massive gamble for VS to take , & one which Branson is usually averse to doing .

You could also ask the same question about why they don't start flights to the Indian sub-continent , there are far more South Asians in the north of England than there are Chinese , yet has anyone heard of any flights proposed by VS !?

Air India don't even fly to MAN !
 
HUYfan
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:52 am

Air China plan to start Manchester pax service in 2009. Would expect Beijing service.

Air India don't fly to MAN because the fly to BHX. Expect India service at the end of 2008, although not by AI.

Regards

Mike
 
swiftski
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am

RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:59 am



Quoting APYu (Reply 10):
But at the same time they are considering axing the London to Shanghai due to poor performance.

I fly the PVG route bi-monthly (minimum) and it's never been 'quiet'
 
7LBAC111
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:40 am



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 14):
I fly the PVG route bi-monthly (minimum) and it's never been 'quiet'

It can be full of low yielding passengers and still under perform....
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
col
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:46 am

Maybe they need to interline with MU, that would save a lot of HKG requirement, as most of the HKG Pax would probably connect or take the ferry.
 
DavidByrne
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:01 pm

PVG-MAN route possibilities have been regularly discussed on other threads in the context of a possible AKL-PVG-MAN route by NZ, probably after 789s have been delivered in a few years. One factor raised which makes PVG-MAN sound less attractive is that the vast majority of Manchester Chinese are Cantonese speakers, and significantly of Hong Kong origin. Current immigration from China to Manchester has included more Mandarin speakers, but still Cantonese predominate. In this context, MAN-HKG - or even perhaps MAN-CAN - make sense. But PVG, being outside the Cantonese area, wouldn't attract as much MAN traffic. Current suggestions are that NZ has abandoned that idea and now is considering AKL-LAX-MAN, or transiting SFO or YVR instead.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
APYu
Posts: 513
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:28 pm



Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 15):


Quoting Swiftski (Reply 14):
I fly the PVG route bi-monthly (minimum) and it's never been 'quiet'

It can be full of low yielding passengers and still under perform....

It can also depend on whats in the belly of the plane.
Given VS's poor results last year any route which isnt performing greatly could be under threat, at least while additional planes come on line.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:40 pm



Quoting Basrabob (Reply 6):
to VS , MAN is a distraction . It will be a miracle if it happens , they will concentrate on LON , any provincial flights will be to western hemisphere destinations , they are primarily a London airline . Also they don't have any spare aircraft.



Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 11):
it shows that MAN does have potential (unless you work for BA).

Guys,

This same old Northern inferiority complex - its getting boring chaps. Its got nothing to do with being a London airline - its about profits.

Get over it please.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 961
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:26 pm



Quoting Basrabob (Reply 6):
to VS , MAN is a distraction . It will be a miracle if it happens , they will concentrate on LON , any provincial flights will be to western hemisphere destinations , they are primarily a London airline . Also they don't have any spare aircraft.

I trust you have some facts to quantify that statement??

Since starting operations from MAN in 1997 VS have gone from 1200 seats per week to MCO to 3200 today. They also operate services to UVF, BGI and charter services to other points in the Caribbean.

In total they have quadrupled services from MAN since the beginnning of operations - LHR or LGW don't come close in terms of increases in passengers/flights.

Quoting APYu (Reply 10):
But at the same time they are considering axing the London to Shanghai due to poor performance.

Not that I am aware of. Shanghai was one of the best performing routes of 2006/2007. Overall load factors are high, and J and W are particularly successful. Cargo is also huge - particularly ex PVG. The A346 is unquestionably less efficient with regards to fuel burn that a B773ER but it still has a huge capacity for cargo and is more than capable of making money on these kind of routes.

Regards
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
col
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:33 pm



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
Guys,

This same old Northern inferiority complex - its getting boring chaps. Its got nothing to do with being a London airline - its about profits.

Get over it please.

Absolutely, BA are not capable of operating long haul out of the regions, there is no money in it for them, Oh except MAN-JFK.

CX are also happy about feeding via BA also, so lets not count on One World anytime soon.

Now VS would be a good one with a daily 343, with an onward to say TPE to increase utilization.
 
APYu
Posts: 513
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:17 pm



Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 20):
Quoting APYu (Reply 10):
But at the same time they are considering axing the London to Shanghai due to poor performance.

Not that I am aware of.

Cargo demand has dropped right off recently - hence the review
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
swiftski
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am

RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:39 pm



Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 15):
It can be full of low yielding passengers and still under perform



Quoting APYu (Reply 18):
It can also depend on whats in the belly of the plane.
Given VS's poor results last year any route which isnt performing greatly could be under threat, at least while additional planes come on line.

Fair points.
 
jonnywishbone
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:30 am

RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:02 pm

Personally, I think VS's lack of 'alliance' will mean that it will never happen, not to PVG anyway. There's no alliance feeder traffic at either end and I dont see there being much O&D traffic to be perfectly honest, except for me twice a year!

I think, as I have said before that an airline (bmi having the golden opportunity but f***ing it up) would make money out of MAN by flying 2/3/4 times a week to key destinations linked into a good alliance partner - CX to Dragonair thru HKG must make sense soon, somebody thru SFO (Air NZ or BMI (yeah right!) to the UA network).

Whilst VS offer a great product, I think they need to get some more routes in the USA linking in before you see a MAN-USA serious offering, if at all!

Whatever happens, it needs doing SOON before the market gets diluted even further with low cost long haul products.
 
heathrow
Posts: 371
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RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:34 pm

if it happens, what would they use? I don't think they have enough capacity for a 744, so that leaves a 343 or 346. Can the 343 pull it off?
 
Boeing74741R
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:01 pm



Quoting Heathrow (Reply 25):
if it happens, what would they use? I don't think they have enough capacity for a 744, so that leaves a 343 or 346. Can the 343 pull it off?

The 747-400 can be safely ruled out. I expect either the A340-300 or the A340-600 to be utilised should such a route come about, with rotations at PVG to get aircraft back to LHR for maintenance.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23411
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: VS To Start MAN - Shanghai In March 08?

Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:33 pm



Quoting Basrabob (Reply 12):
Air India don't even fly to MAN !

Nor do BA  Wink

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
Air India don't even fly to MAN !

Blah blah blah.
I think the regions prefer KLM, AF, EK and CO, so who gives a stuff about LA?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!

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