|Quoting EI321 (Reply 45):|
The A350 is optimised around a different length than the 787. Look at the wings - they are considerably larger.
Then the A350-800 must be a piece of crap, heavy and can't compete with the 787-900 or 777 for that matter. Yet the A350-800 is selling surprisingly well and the A350-1000 surprisingly poorly considering they are available a mere 1 year apart...
|Quoting EI321 (Reply 45):|
When an airline signs a firm contract they are signing on performance guarentees. This applies to both the 787 and A350.
signed really large orders for A350s, and there is no doubt at all they are convertible to ANY model, so I don't buy it. They'd like the A350-1000 to be what is claimed, but they are by no means committed in any way to actually taking even 1 of them.
|Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 48):|
What should make a difference is that the 350-1000 wing is *baseline* for the whole family. Still needs extra wheels, indeed.
Again, then the A350-800 should be a stinker, yet it is selling much better.
|Quoting Astuteman (Reply 50):|
Presumably any "huge" order for the A350 is now to be labelled a "hubris" order.
Was EK's "huge" 777 order also a hubris order?
Don't put "presumptions" into my mouth. If AF
make a large A350 order, it's entirely different in my mind than what QR
are doing (plus, they wouldn't order 80-100 at once, but start smaller with options and rights like sanely managed airlines tend to do).
I personally think that EK
are in a pissing contest to be the king of the Middle East carriers and to try to dominate EU long-haul flying, and thus their large orders are about hubris as much as anything because they are still quite far from getting to that point. I've made this quite clear, and haven't strayed from that POV. I felt EK
was leaning toward the A350, but have said from the start that an order for 100 of either was ridiculous. Most airlines order a small number and then take options and rights to more. EK
order huge numbers up front, plus even more options, and aren't generally even replacing planes when they do so.
's earlier 777 orders were slightly different because they were about current sustained growth and getting planes right now, not 7-8 years from now, but even then I think the surge to 100 777 fleet on top of 50 A380s is again about hubris. I can't see them meeting their growth plans without dumping seats and being subsidized by government dollars to be able to afford to do so, and it will lead to de-liberalizing of air treaties between the UAE and countries seeing their flag carriers decimated.
|Quoting Astuteman (Reply 52):|
I must also have missed QF's large order for 787's being labelled hubris.
The order was less than half as large. 35 frames for a WELL ESTABLISHED airline ordered for the most part to REPLACE planes currently in their fleet. The options and rights were for growth, and QF
has been very cautious in excercising those and balancing the needs with JetStar as well. They didn't order 80 or 100 off the bat. Their approach was sensible.
So why not actually look at the facts instead of getting all defensive about one manufacturer or another. The facts are that so far the A350-1000 is not clearly defined and barely selling despite it's "killer" economic promises, and the 77W is still selling even as delivery slots approach the EIS date for the A350. It's my belief this is because airlines are not yet convinced the plane will do what is promised, and a 7300nm A350-1000 with less payload, even if slightly cheaper to fly, won't be a 1:1 replacement for the 7900nm heavy duty 77W, especially if Boeing tweaks it a bit more as they are doing...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.