BlueSkys
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The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:27 am

I would like to hear from Hajjis that have taken the voyage on non-mainstream airlines such as Kallat Elsaker Air, or on mainstream airlines that lease old aircraft to fill the gap in Hajj Season.

I dont feel like looking through the A.Net Photo database at the moment but I have seen pictures of many OLD aircraft with comments about them being stored and only used for Hajj. Old 742's 741's 732's L1011's DC10's 727's ETC....
If these aircraft are stored all year do they always receive the proper attention they deserve for Hajj season? I know even proper storage can be hard on an aircraft.

Also, I was curious if anyone has any stories of incidents or accident of aircraft that were being chartered for Hajj. If all the pictures here on A.net i have seen some pretty shabby & old looking equipment being used for Hajj charters.

Also, any stories from people that took Hajj charters, I am curious about the onboard experience!


Cheers!
 
Alessandro
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:52 am

Well, it´s hard to tell since hajj follow the Islamic calendar. Anyone killed during hajj is supposed to go straight to heaven?
Here´s one crash, http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19910711-0

[Edited 2007-12-05 00:11:05]
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:05 pm

Non-Saudi carriers have an age limit on the aircraft AFAIK. Not older than 1986 built or similar.
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Vasu
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:27 pm

This is a really interesting question... I hope someone can come up with some answers!
 
ltbewr
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:37 pm

I would think that any Hajj charter operator would have to take care in choosing aircraft due to liability issues and ability to get liability insurance just like any other operator. An operator or aircraft with a poor operating or safety record or based in a country with major safety issues as to aircraft ops (like maybe with Indonesia) may have serious problems getting insurance or be able to operate in Saudi airspace.
 
ORDagent
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:00 pm

A coworker of mine was a flight attendant for Capital Airlines in the 70's and worked many Hajj charters. The problem for her wasn't the aircraft. It was the passengers. They flew many people from very poor parts of the world that had never flown. Between that and the complete lack of communication due to language barriers the passengers themselves could be a safety issue.
 
Analog
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:26 pm



Quoting ORDagent (Reply 5):
Between that and the complete lack of communication due to language barriers the passengers themselves could be a safety issue.

Why would this be an issue? Is it common to have a large variety of nationalities on a single Hajj aircraft? Don't the carriers make any effort to have at least one or two cabin crew that speak the local language?

I imagine the real language issue is on arrival. Wouldn't it be great if they had a common language?  Wink
 
ikramerica
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:30 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 6):
Why would this be an issue? Is it common to have a large variety of nationalities on a single Hajj aircraft? Don't the carriers make any effort to have at least one or two cabin crew that speak the local language?

Well this was the 70's he's talking about, not today.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:33 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 6):
Don't the carriers make any effort to have at least one or two cabin crew that speak the local language?

Probably not as the objective is not the service onboard, but to get people to Mecca for the pilgrimage.

Quoting Analog (Reply 6):
Why would this be an issue?

You are also dealing with people, large groups at a given time, who are unfamiliar with what they can and can't do onboard an aircraft, what the local laws pertaining to the airline's home are, unfamiliar with the language spoken by the crew, a real good chance this flight (and the return) might be the few, if only, chance they get to fly. The crew, as well, may be unfamiliar with the customs and culture of the people that are onboard. The list is long.
You can't cure stupid
 
ORDagent
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:58 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 6):
Why would this be an issue?

Getting people to sit down for taxi and takeoff. Know what and where a lav are and when they are ok to be used (no joke). We forget that there are parts of the world that air travel is completley unknown to most people. Getting language qualified staff for sub-sharan Africa even today poses a challange let alone for a small charter outfit.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:19 pm

Things like how to find and use a toilet are one of the items. I have spoken to a few F/A's who have worked these flights and many people that take them have never even seen an aircraft before. Also, lighting fires in the cabin to cook your own food is another concern that the carriers have to keep their eyes open for.
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levent
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:24 pm

I believe a Martinair DC-8 carrying Hajj pilgrims crashed near Colombo, Sri Lanka. I don't remember the year though.
 
lowrider
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:34 pm

A co worker of mine worked the Hajj last year. The contract was for 90 days of work. During those 90 days he had 11 engine failures. The flight crew had a hard time communicating with the cabin crew, as very few (if any) on any given flight spoke english. The cabin crew had difficulty communicating with the pax and had a little service training and no evac training. There was no cockpit door and frequently the pilgrims felt entitled to wander up into the cockpit at will. Most of the pilgrims had never seen a flush toilet before and therefore had no idea how to use one. Boarding was a stampede for seats, and weight and balance was an optimistic guess. Those are just a few of the highlights he told me about.
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:38 pm

I have always wanted to work a Hajj flight. More so for the experience, than anything.
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mariner
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:50 pm



Quoting BlueSkys (Thread starter):
Also, I was curious if anyone has any stories of incidents or accident of aircraft that were being chartered for Hajj.

I am not Muslim so I have never been on a Hajj flight, but I used to fly Iraqi Airways quite frequently, and some similar circumstances apply.

On a 747 flight from Bangkok, we made an unscheduled stop in Karachi and picked up a large number of passengers who - clearly - had not flown before, poorer workers going to Iraq.

There was potential for a problem as we were approaching Baghdad. It was dawn, the sun was breaking on the horizon and it was time for prayers. The cabin staff were well ready for this. They placed themselves throughout the cabin and assured people that they did not need to kneel on the aircraft. They spoke in Arabic and English and a number of the passengers were able to translate, from one or other language, to their travelling companions.

At the same time, a pre-recorded message was played in Urdu and (I think) Hindi, explaining the same thing. Still, one or two didn't get the message and wanted to get to the aisles, to pray. Other passengers and the crew spoke to them, kindly, assuring them that all was well, and they returned to their seats.

Many passengers still said their prayers, of course, aloud, sitting in their seats, and others responded.

We landed without incident.

mariner
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Analog
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:51 pm



Quoting ORDagent (Reply 9):

Getting people to sit down for taxi and takeoff. Know what and where a lav are and when they are ok to be used (no joke). We forget that there are parts of the world that air travel is completley unknown to most people. Getting language qualified staff for sub-sharan Africa even today poses a challange let alone for a small charter outfit.

I was thinking that it might make economic sense to hire an FA or some random local that speaks the FAs' language as well as the locals' to do cabin announcements, etc. Given the potential problems avoided, it would possibly save money.
 
debonair
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:54 pm



Quoting Levent (Reply 11):
I believe a Martinair DC-8 carrying Hajj pilgrims crashed near Colombo, Sri Lanka. I don't remember the year though.

 checkmark  but it was a Loftleidir DC-8 in 1978, http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19781115-0

Many of he Hajj-flights crashed:
BALKAN http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19771202-0
ALIA http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19730122-0
PIA http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791126-0

Beside these accidents in Saudia Arabia, many accidents occured in other parts of the world... E.g. in Sri Lanka (see above) or in Turkey http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19760102-0

But the worst ever Hajj-disaster (AFAIK) was SAUDI's L1011 accident in Riyadh: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19800819-1

This year highlights (so far) are:
Kallat Elsaker Air L1011
PHUKET AIRLINES B747-300 HS-VAC in SAUDIA c/s (reported in long-term storage!)
Unknown/IRAQI DC-10 9S-GAS (reported in long-term storage! ex MYT!)
KABO AIR 5N-MAD

BTW: I am looking for any web-page with pictures and much more infos about Hajj-operators. any links suggested?
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:55 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 14):
At the same time, a pre-recorded message was played in Urdu and (I think) Hindi,

Very unlikely that there would have been a Hindi announcement if the flight originated in BKK and stopped to pick up passengers in KHI....the announcement would have been in Urdu (which sounds quite a lot like Hindi).... smile 
 
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mariner
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:58 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 18):
Very unlikely that there would have been a Hindi announcement if the flight originated in BKK and stopped to pick up passengers in KHI.

As I said, it was in Urdu. But it was also, I believe, in Hindi.

There are a large number of Muslims in India, and I was told that Iraqi Airways used to carry tapes in both langages, as these unscheduled stops happened quite frequently, and sometimes in Bombay/Mumbai.

mariner

[Edited 2007-12-05 13:15:12]
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BlueSkys
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:00 pm



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 12):
A co worker of mine worked the Hajj last year. The contract was for 90 days of work. During those 90 days he had 11 engine failures. The flight crew had a hard time communicating with the cabin crew, as very few (if any) on any given flight spoke english. The cabin crew had difficulty communicating with the pax and had a little service training and no evac training. There was no cockpit door and frequently the pilgrims felt entitled to wander up into the cockpit at will. Most of the pilgrims had never seen a flush toilet before and therefore had no idea how to use one. Boarding was a stampede for seats, and weight and balance was an optimistic guess. Those are just a few of the highlights he told me about.

That is an interesting story! What kind of aircraft was he flying?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:10 pm

The Aircraft is as safe as its Maintenace carried out & not its Age.
regds
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GARUDAROD
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:16 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
An operator or aircraft with a poor operating or safety record or based in a country with major safety issues as to aircraft ops (like maybe with Indonesia) may have serious problems getting insurance or be able to operate in Saudi airspace.

You do realize that the Indonesian Hajj passengers are done through airlines like World, My Travel and other
top notch charter carriers from Europe. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world and they have make
sure the Hajj is safe. That being said, Ive seen some old rattle trap B747s fly through there belonging to Tower Air
Evergreen, etc, but they were always maintained well.
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cedarjet
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:25 pm

I knew a dude who flew a 747-200 on Hajj flights in the early 90s, the aircraft had been in long term storage and when the Hajj rolled around, they had to find engines for 3 & 4. The engines they ended up with were a different power rating, so they had to carry two sets of performance charts to set takeoff power, cruise power etc. Seemed to work OK, flight engineer must have been busy.

There's two ex Delta Tristars at Tehran Mehrabad with Air Universal titles above the Delta cheatline. One will not fly again, but the other is awaiting Hajj. It's not in great condition either. I guess Tehran to Jeddah isn't that far, couple of hours, I probably wouldn't want to cross an ocean on it but a short hop down to the Persian Gulf isn't such a stretch. loads of airfields along the way ready to receive a slightly malfunctioning aircraft if necessary.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
lowrider
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:30 pm



Quoting BlueSkys (Reply 20):
That is an interesting story! What kind of aircraft was he flying?

A 747-200 formerly owned by BA.
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Gr8Circle
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:13 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
There are a large number of Muslims in India,

Yeah, I know that, being from India myself....thus my comment....

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
and I was told that Iraqi Airways used to carry tapes in both langages

Oh well, if it was a recorded announcement, quite possible...I thought you were referring to an announcement made by the FA's.....
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:46 pm



Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 22):
You do realize that the Indonesian Hajj passengers are done through airlines like World, My Travel and other
top notch charter carriers from Europe

And another top notch carrier called Orient Thai  Yeah sure
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N1120A
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:56 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):

As I said, it was in Urdu. But it was also, I believe, in Hindi.

The languages are so close, I don't see the need to have it in both. Perhaps the tapes were in Urdu and Punjabi?

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 22):
That being said, Ive seen some old rattle trap B747s fly through there belonging to Tower Air
Evergreen, etc, but they were always maintained well.

Tower Air and Well Maintained don't belong in the same breath.
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BlueSkys
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:40 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
Tower Air and Well Maintained don't belong in the same breath.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:42 pm



Quoting Debonair (Reply 16):
But the worst ever Hajj-disaster (AFAIK) was SAUDI's L1011 accident in Riyadh: http://aviation-safety.net/database/...819-1

This was not a Hajj flight.Hajj flights do not land in RUH but JED.
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cefarix
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:25 am

I've flown on several flights out of Peshawar, being from Pakistan. One of these flights was full of laborers going to the MidEast for jobs, and it was their first time in a plane. None spoke English, a few probably spoke Urdu. There were some who did not even speak Pashto, the provincial language. However, it appears the group had atleast a couple of people who had previously worked in the MidEast, and had come back to Pakistan to get the new laborers. The flight was from Peshawar to Muscat, and I think they were due to continue on to Jeddah. But their connecting flight was many hours away, so they all had to do a transit stay in a hotel in Muscat. Two people who knew Urdu approached my family and asked us to fill out their Transit Visa applications for them, since the forms were only in Arabic and English.

During the flight, I did notice any problems from the passengers. I think most of them were shy and probably scared (imagine coming from a village in the mountains into a hi-tech airplane with all those buttons on your seat etc), so they stayed quite the whole time. I noticed one of the FAs was kind of rude to one of these guys... she asked him orange juice or water? repeatedly, each time with a shaper tone, knowing full well the poor guy couldn't understand her... then she just skipped him and didn't give him anything to drink.

As an aside (I happen to have an interest in linguistics), Urdu and Hindi are the same language. I speak Urdu, and if I were to go to India, I would have little trouble conversing with the common man who knew Hindi. Formal Urdu and Hindi diverge significantly, however, but only in their vocabular: Urdu favors vocabulary from Farsi, Arabic, and Turkish, while formal Hindi vocabulary is reconstructed from Sanskrit roots. So the languages sound exactly the same, they have exactly the same grammar, and on the level of the common man, the vocabulary is pretty much the same too. It's only the more formal and/or sophisticated vocabulary that they tend to differ. (For example the word for "passenger" is different in Urdu and Hindi... Musafir in Urdu, from Arabic, and I forgot what it is in Hindi). But if you ever hear an announcement in both Urdu and Hindi, and you know either one of the vocabularies, you can match it with the words in the other vocabulary set by pretty much direct comparison.
 
cefarix
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:27 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 28):

Quoting Debonair (Reply 16):
But the worst ever Hajj-disaster (AFAIK) was SAUDI's L1011 accident in Riyadh: http://aviation-safety.net/database/...819-1

This was not a Hajj flight.Hajj flights do not land in RUH but JED.

My grandfather was on this plane on it's last flight. It had just landed, and he had gotten off the plane. When the plane took off again, it burst into flames and all the passengers and crew died trapped inside.

[Edited 2007-12-05 18:28:32]
 
Dougloid
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:38 am



Quoting Cefarix (Reply 30):
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 28):

Quoting Debonair (Reply 16):
But the worst ever Hajj-disaster (AFAIK) was SAUDI's L1011 accident in Riyadh: http://aviation-safety.net/database/...819-1

This was not a Hajj flight.Hajj flights do not land in RUH but JED.


My grandfather was on this plane on it's last flight. It had just landed, and he had gotten off the plane. When the plane took off again, it burst into flames and all the passengers and crew died trapped inside.

Rumor has it that someone was brewing up some tea over an open flame, maybe a primus stove or something.

I did happen to take an extensive tour of a 707-138B that was owned by Frederick B. Ayer leasing in New York and was leased to Bouraq for the Haj run from Indonesia. Well, Bouraq didn't pay their fuel bill so Shell disabled the airplane. After a year or so of this infernal palaver something got resolved and Ayer sent a crew to bring the old rustbucket back stateside. They were so far off course that they went right over Vandenberg and caused a ruckus. Landed at Garrett so I went up in the airplane to see what it looked like inside.

I'm still sorry I didn't grab the sextant because it still had one-that's what they'd used coming across. No long range navaids that worked.

But the rest of the plane was a frackin' disaster. It was awful. A deathtrap.

The lavatory had rusted out and leaked all over the radio rack down below. It's a wonder anything worked at all.
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mariner
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:45 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
The languages are so close, I don't see the need to have it in both. Perhaps the tapes were in Urdu and Punjabi?

I recognized some of the Hindi as I speak it a little. But I am not fluent in the language, which is why I said "I think".

When I asked, I was given the reason I have posted here. Obviously they felt a need to play both, so I don't question whatever lingusitic or cultural differences they perceived as necessary.

mariner
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ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:50 am



Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 21):
Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world and they have make
sure the Hajj is safe.

Indonesia may be the largest Muslim country in the world, but I'm not sure that you should hold them up as a reason why Hajj flights are safe. They've been having quite a bit of trouble assuring the world that aviation safety is managed well in their country.
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visityyj
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:57 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 31):
Rumor has it that someone was brewing up some tea over an open flame, maybe a primus stove or something.

Just that - a rumour, and not a very good one either  Yeah sure .
The fire started in the cargo hold: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19800819-1
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:59 pm



Quoting Visityyj (Reply 35):
Just that - a rumour, and not a very good one either

That and since no one survived, would rely on forensics.
You can't cure stupid
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:34 pm



Quoting Visityyj (Reply 35):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 31):
Rumor has it that someone was brewing up some tea over an open flame, maybe a primus stove or something.

Just that - a rumour, and not a very good one either .

Such behavour has been observed among Haj pilgrims traveling on super subsidised GoI fares on AI charter flights... Big grin I have it directly from an AI commander who experienced this on one of his flights to Jeddah...
 
iairallie
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:44 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 6):
Between that and the complete lack of communication due to language barriers the passengers themselves could be a safety issue.

Why would this be an issue?



Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 10):
Also, lighting fires in the cabin to cook your own food is another concern that the carriers have to keep their eyes open for.

My company used to do hadj flights and it is always interesting to hear the veterans tell their stories. Another safety problem was the Hadjis bringing "zamzam" water onboard in containers however many filled them with kerosene because it was cheaper there. They'd put them in the overheads and they'd leak. Scary stuff. Even being forewarned, given the oportunity I would work one for the experience. I am fascinated by other cultures.
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PlunaCRJ
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:57 pm



Quoting Debonair (Reply 16):
BTW: I am looking for any web-page with pictures and much more infos about Hajj-operators. any links suggested?

Pluna recently wet leased it´s sole 757 (CX-PUD) for Hajj Flights. There was quite a controversy here with the crews assigned to these flight, that didn´t fancy making them.

They cited concerns over the language barrier, safety, working on a culture were women are considered inferior, health, "first-time-flyier"passengers, etc...

I think they should show professionalism and do the job. By the way, they are doing it right now
 
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yowza
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:18 pm



Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 2):
Non-Saudi carriers have an age limit on the aircraft AFAIK. Not older than 1986 built or similar.

If that's true somebody better tell these guys:

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Which has the following history:
01/03/1984 | TAP Air Portugal | CS-TEE
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02/02/2004 | Joasro Aviation | 3D-JOE
16/06/2004 | Jordan Aviation | JY-JOE
01/11/2005 | GlobeJet | OD-JOE

I don't know whether this 1986+ rule is true but I find banning aircraft based on age or type ridiculous. It's about upkeep. Not a hard concept.

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varig md-11
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:21 pm

I never took Haj flight but it's always very interesting to see what metal is used.

in 2000 at COO (Benin,Africa) an Ilyushin 86 was about to be used...." about" because it stayed 2 weeks on the ground for its engines had problems!!
I remember thousands of muslims lying on the floor around COO Cadjehoun airport by a temperature of +30C, with tents, food....everything you can imagine
this year an L-1011 registered in DXB was supposed to do the trick, but again I heard there are problems and thousands of people are stranded at COO again
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Dougloid
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RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:17 am



Quoting Visityyj (Reply 35):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 31):
Rumor has it that someone was brewing up some tea over an open flame, maybe a primus stove or something.

Just that - a rumour, and not a very good one either .
The fire started in the cargo hold: http://aviation-safety.net/database/...819-1

Well, see, that's why I come here because I know if my information's off kilter someone will get the drop on me.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1150
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:37 am



Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 33):
Indonesia may be the largest Muslim country in the world, but I'm not sure that you should hold them up as a reason why Hajj flights are safe. They've been having quite a bit of trouble assuring the world that aviation safety is managed well in their country.

That is very true, but was I was trying to say is that they are not Indonesian airlines that are operating the
flights for the most part. They are contracted carriers from the U.S. and Europe and occassionally, places
like Thailand. Garuda does operate some of the flights, but the majority are done by airlines that SHOULD
have better maintenance programs in place.
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
AirAmericaC46
Posts: 489
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:23 pm

RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:39 am

I need info on examples of current hajj routes-----name of airline, type of aircraft and routing. Thanks for the data
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:05 am

PIA had leased a Thai Orient 747-100 and it looked pretty old. I actually flew in it from ISB to KHI last January.
Its funny how one of the Thai crew members was describing the condition of one of the bathrooms.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
User avatar
Vasu
Posts: 3126
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:34 am

RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:55 am



Quoting PIA777 (Reply 45):
Its funny how one of the Thai crew members was describing the condition of one of the bathrooms.

haha... what did they say?
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4507
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:14 pm

Well this should say something both about the airworthiness of metal used as well as the operators and their practices.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7145016.stm

YOWza
 
river747
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:47 pm

RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:11 pm



Quoting Levent (Reply 11):
I believe a Martinair DC-8 carrying Hajj pilgrims crashed near Colombo, Sri Lanka. I don't remember the year though.

It was DC-8-55F PH-MBH which crashed into a mountain on Sri Lanka on December 4, 1974. It was operating a hajj flight on behalf of Garuda.
 
MYT321
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:54 am

RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:33 pm

Excellent thread. Does anybody have any info on what state those 'top notch european charter carriers' get their metal back in ?
"The A380 is coming to MAN"
 
n710ps
Posts: 1116
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: The Planes Of Hajj.... Safe?

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:35 pm



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 39):
I think they should show professionalism and do the job. By the way, they are doing it right now

And that sir is where you are wrong. If safety is a concern the crew has the right to refuse. I am not sure where your ideas come from but safety first.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!

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